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Footage of 1970 Belgian Grand Prix


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#1 small block

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 16:09

Some nice footage here that I've not seen before (i.e. is not on You tube).

http://www.sonuma.be...à-francorchamps

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#2 Gary C

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 16:28

very nice indeed.

#3 small block

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 17:06

1972 race from the same source:

http://www.sonuma.be...ique-de-f1-1972

#4 pressman

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 18:15

Great Stuff Thanks

#5 Hawkeye

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 18:27

Excellent footage from 1970, good to see Pedro's fine win! Well found!! (looks like more racing-related footage there as well, inc. some endurance snippets)

#6 BRG

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 19:26

Ah, those were the days, when the world was still in black and white, marshals had a fag in their mouth and photographers casually stood on the very edge of the track without even a hi-vis as protection.

#7 Cargo

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 06:04

Good! Thanks for that one! Indeed, those were the days ... opposite lock and power slides out of slow corners. :smoking:

#8 Emery0323

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 06:41

1972 race from the same source:

http://www.sonuma.be...ique-de-f1-1972


I take it those black cowboy hats on the Lotus crew were part of the Texaco sponsorship?
That look didn't wear well, even then!

#9 Peter Horsman

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 07:19

And some rather faster ones too (see 1.05)!

#10 Stephen W

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 08:55

1972 race from the same source:

http://www.sonuma.be...ique-de-f1-1972


The background music from The Magnificent Seven that we could hear early on in the clip was being played during the Marlboro demonstration which included several cars decked out in Marlboro colours plus a stagecoach complete with costumed actors.

I was also amused to see one of the cars being refuelled and during the process the mechanics were sharing cigarettes (probably Marlboro as there were dozens of young ladies handing out samples).

Posted Image





#11 Michael Oliver

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 12:34

What a truly fabulous find! Brings back lovely memories, as I was present that weekend. And the shots of the cars rounding Stavelot serve to underline just how fast the track was. And I love the clip (is that the one you mean, Peter?) of Rodriguez getting very out of shape coming up out of Eau Rouge (I forgot the name of the corner at the top of the hill, sorry!), a good save, that one! Sadly, the only photographic record I seem to have of that weekend is (very appropriately, as it turned out) a shot of John Miles' Lotus 72 in the paddock...

#12 charles r

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 12:48

A rare gem, when IMHO the 3 litre cars were at their zenith aesthetically.

#13 alansart

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 12:54

A rare gem, when IMHO the 3 litre cars were at their zenith aesthetically.


I can't disagree with that - wonderful times for a 15 year old such as me. Pity I didn't get to Spa until 1986.


#14 Paul Parker

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 13:50

A rare gem, when IMHO the 3 litre cars were at their zenith aesthetically.


Yep, they look just right, slide around and sound even better, perfect.

What really stands out is the sustained high velocity, only one really slow corner, modern F1 with its plethora of 2nd gear and tightening curves is an exercise in visual frustration for the viewer onscreen and even spectator in situ, with exception, not forgetting the industrial estate feeder road backdrops that characterise certain tracks.

Ah well, better remove my rose tinted glasses methinks.


#15 Rob Semmeling

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 15:03

Great footage! Also love the clip of the 1962 Brussels GP - I didn't know Stirling Moss speaks French fluently... :eek:

#16 raceannouncer2003

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 18:05

And this:

http://www.sonuma.be...

Even braver...or crazier !

Amazing. And look at the crowds.

Vince H.

#17 Der Pate

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 20:46

Great to identify Eau Rouge !!!

#18 JacnGille

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Posted 03 August 2013 - 01:48

1972 race from the same source:

http://www.sonuma.be...ique-de-f1-1972

:up:

#19 GD66

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Posted 03 August 2013 - 05:42

I love the clip (is that the one you mean, Peter?) of Rodriguez getting very out of shape coming up out of Eau Rouge (I forgot the name of the corner at the top of the hill, sorry!), a good save, that one!




Is it Raidillon ?


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#20 dave34m

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Posted 03 August 2013 - 06:23

Can anyone tell me which corner is shown at 1.20sec on the 1970 race.

#21 dave34m

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Posted 03 August 2013 - 06:35

What a truly fabulous find! Brings back lovely memories, as I was present that weekend. And the shots of the cars rounding Stavelot serve to underline just how fast the track was. And I love the clip (is that the one you mean, Peter?) of Rodriguez getting very out of shape coming up out of Eau Rouge (I forgot the name of the corner at the top of the hill, sorry!), a good save, that one! Sadly, the only photographic record I seem to have of that weekend is (very appropriately, as it turned out) a shot of John Miles' Lotus 72 in the paddock...

There is much confusion over these corner names, I was talking with some locals there in 2010 and they told me that Eau Rouge is the left turn only and what everyone calls Eau Rouge today is actually Raidilon.
Here is what Wikipedia says

Properly speaking, the Eau Rouge corner is only the left-hander at the bottom. The following right-hander that leads steeply uphill, which was introduced in 1939 to shortcut the original hairpin "Ancienne Douane", is called "Raidillon". The corner requires a large amount of skill from the driver to negotiate well and the long straight ahead often produces good overtaking opportunities for the best drivers at the following "Les Combes" corner. The corner was tighter and narrower (it was made wider in 1970, when the circuit was updated) on the old circuit than it is today on the current circuit, which made it considerably slower.

Clear as mud

Edited by dave34m, 03 August 2013 - 06:36.


#22 GD66

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Posted 03 August 2013 - 06:45

Then there's this...

http://richlandf1.com?p=3174

The headscratching continues... :wave:

#23 David McKinney

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Posted 03 August 2013 - 08:18

No need for head-scratching. Richland F1 is wrong

#24 Rob Semmeling

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Posted 03 August 2013 - 09:14

Can anyone tell me which corner is shown at 1.20sec on the 1970 race.


It's the exit of the new-for-1970 "chicane" at Malmédy, same corner as shown at 46 seconds.

#25 GD66

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 02:37

No need for head-scratching. Richland F1 is wrong



What ? B-but David, it's on the Internet ! :drunk:


OK, so if Eau Rouge is the left, and Raidillon is the right, what is the corner name of the following uphill, slightly adverse-cambered left-hander that leads onto the Kemmel straight ?


#26 nmansellfan

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 12:59

Amazing footage - great find, small block. That's the first time I've seen a clip of the cars going through the Malmedy chicane close up (I don't think the Brunswick footage ever leaves the S/F area). I wonder what kind of top speeds the cars were achieving at Spa in 1970 - was there a speed trap placed anywhere that year? I recall reading in '67 that Gurney was timed at 196mph and Clark 193mph (hitting the DFV's limiter halfway down towards Stavelot) - I imagine the cars by '70 may have been around the same speed or slightly slower, with wings negating the horsepower gain in 3 years of engine development.

Edited by nmansellfan, 04 August 2013 - 13:03.


#27 mfd

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 17:17

I wonder what kind of top speeds the cars were achieving at Spa in 1970

The fastest lap for the GP was set by Chris Amon at 3.27.4 (152.07 mph) but perhaps you shouldn't forget the quickest race lap in the 1000k, set a only couple of weeks before the GP was over 10 seconds faster than Amon's time & an average lap speed of 160.53 mph

#28 Catalina Park

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 06:49

The fastest lap for the GP was set by Chris Amon at 3.27.4 (152.07 mph) but perhaps you shouldn't forget the quickest race lap in the 1000k, set a only couple of weeks before the GP was over 10 seconds faster than Amon's time & an average lap speed of 160.53 mph

Did they use the Malmedy chicane in the 1000km?


#29 mfd

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 09:10

Did they use the Malmedy chicane in the 1000km?

I wondered this as well, but Autocourse records the circuit as the same length for both races, although this could be a lazy error. I'll keep searching but I did find this from another forum where they discuss circuit changes at Spa

"me and few other people have been obsessed by old Spa chicanes for some time, one at Malmedy and one at Masta. So I wrote to Spa, the track office, they've sent it to the Spa Museum and they replied, quite interesting info. It looks Masta chicane was built in 1975, but they've decided to never use it after some tests as it was dangerous.
Malmedy was tested for last F1 race on old track in 1970, but it was not used. On the contrary, it was used for other races later on.


Also found this "Afaik, for the 1970 last F1 race, the Malmedy chicane was just finished and perfectly in place, but they didn't use it for the F1 .They ran the GP with the same Malmedy layout than in 67 and 68"

Personally I trust the writings of Anthony Pritchard & his book from 1970 refers to the 1000k race being without chicane & at the F1 race it being used

Edited by mfd, 05 August 2013 - 09:21.


#30 Catalina Park

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 09:30

Personally I trust the writings of Anthony Pritchard & his book from 1970 refers to the 1000k race being without chicane & at the F1 race it being used

That is pretty much what I thought.

#31 Tim Murray

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 10:18

DSJ's reports on both events in Motor Sport confirm that the Malmedy chicane was definitely not used for the 1,000 Km race, but was used for the GP. He estimated that the chicane added around seven to ten seconds to lap times.

Edited by Tim Murray, 05 August 2013 - 10:23.


#32 noikeee

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 03:02

Awesome video, cheers for that.

#33 William Hunt

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 03:18

Great to identify Eau Rouge !!!


Well no since the Eau Rouge corner that led to l'Ancienne Douanne was abandoned and replaced by the Raidillon in 1939 but still to this day many people say Eau Rouge to the Raidillon. Eau Rouge is in fact a small river that flows under the Raidillon and there used to be a corner there between 1922 and 1939. What some people say: 'The Raidillon at Eau Rouge' more is correct.

#34 GD66

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 10:46

OK, so if Eau Rouge is the left, and Raidillon is the right, what is the corner name of the following uphill, slightly adverse-cambered left-hander that leads onto the Kemmel straight ?




Anyone ?


#35 mfd

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 11:05

Anyone ?

Raidillon 2?
Plenty of maps here - http://www.google.co...u...php;600;371

Edited by mfd, 07 August 2013 - 11:05.


#36 2F-001

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 11:38

The ongoing confusion over this is doubtless not helped by the line the road follows having changed quite a bit over time.
The right-hander before the steep climb is now a continuation of the initial left-hander at the foot of the hill (the remains of the original Eau Rouge corner where the road crosses the stream itself).

I discussed this with one of the operatives in race control at Spa last year (or maybe the year before) - one who spoke some English and seemed to have an interest in the history…

The current practice seems to be to refer to the initial left-hander as Eau Rouge (quite rightly), and turn to the right being so close is generally considered along with it, as one might any other esse bend; that is, the area at the bottom the hill. Some of the official maps and diagrams of the track in use do not seem to carry the legend 'Eau Rouge' at all and some that do refer to 'Raidillon Eau Rouge' as a 'complex'.

'Raidillon' (which I believe means 'ramp') refers to the steep climb from the bottom and the blind left-hand crest at the top where everybody goes off. The majority of the incidents and 'offs' at 'Eau Rouge' are actually at the crest of Raidillon. My understanding is that the blind left-hander has always been thus; it's the very slight right-hander following this (and before the bulk of the Kemmel straight) that doesn't have a name.

This leaves unresolved any name for the former right-hander following the original Eau Rouge (turning away from the route leading to the customs post) - but I don't believe it was ever called Raidillon.

#37 GD66

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 12:39

Thanks, Tony. :up:

#38 Herman L

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Posted 22 August 2016 - 08:57

The name of the Original pre 1939 corner was 'l Ancienne Douane.


Edited by Herman L, 22 August 2016 - 08:58.


#39 sidewinder26

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Posted 22 August 2016 - 18:58

Great footage, thanks. Cornering speeds are tremendous. 



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#40 Mohican

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 13:31

Interesting also to see Ickx' Ferrari carrying race number 27...11 years before Villeneuve.



#41 Mohican

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 13:31

Pure coincidence, but still.



#42 john aston

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 16:33

Slidetastic, wonderful noises and gorgeous looking cars. Spa this weekend of course - compare and contrast...(but also reflect on how many of the  1970 grid didn't die in their own bed)    



#43 E1pix

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 17:26

Wow, awesome!

Hard to believe it was 46 years ago. Then again, harder still thinking it was ONLY 46 years ago...

Edit: Anyone know why there's only 17 cars???

Edited by E1pix, 23 August 2016 - 17:31.


#44 opplock

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 18:06

Twenty five cars were entered. The race was held on 7th June. All McLarens withdrawn due to tragedy 5 days earlier, including Surtees' private entry. Johnny Servoz Gavin had retired so only one Tyrrell entered March. George Eaton was testing the Canam BRM. Silvio Moser didn't arrive. Alex Soler Roig failed to complete the minimum requirement of 5 practice laps having only completed 2 laps in a Lotus 72 the best of which was 15 seconds slower than the slowest qualifier.     



#45 Glengavel

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 18:17

Slidetastic, wonderful noises and gorgeous looking cars. Spa this weekend of course - compare and contrast...(but also reflect on how many of the  1970 grid didn't die in their own bed)    

 

Of the 18 who took part, 11 are dead. 3 from natural causes (Brabham, Amon, Beltoise), 1 plane crash (Hill) and 7 racing accidents (Rodriguez, Giunti, Stommelen, Siffert, Peterson, Rindt, Courage). And of the seven survivors, most were involved at one point or another in potentially life-threatening accidents.


Edited by Glengavel, 23 August 2016 - 18:17.


#46 2F-001

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 19:35

Newer followers of Grand Prix racing possibly cannot imagine a time when one wouldn't necessarily see the same collection of cars and drivers at each race.
Grid sizes were pretty variable around that time; did we grumble much about small grids at the time (eg. 17 at Silverstone in '69)? I can't remember...

#47 Tim Murray

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Posted 23 August 2016 - 21:35

Only 13 entrants at the previous race in France. Try telling that to the young people of today ...

#48 Mohican

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 09:30

Even worse, consider that of the drivers on the starting grid Rodriguez, Giunti, Siffert, Rindt and Courage were all dead by the end of the following season.



#49 Boniver

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 20:22

Circuit Francorchamps

 

In Stavelot was first the "virage de Chefosse" . This was the road to Stavelot and than 180° back to the road to Spa.

 

Later there was in Stavelot a banking "virage  Sarvelot"

 

In what year was the banking construct.  



#50 Obster

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Posted 24 August 2016 - 21:11

Super footage! Yes, happy to see the Malmedy "chicane" I just learned of from photos in Mark Hughes' book. Interesting.

Remember, also, the McLarens were missing in the aftermath of Bruce's death. Shock #1 of too many in this amazing season.

Hey, I know  the actual distinction between Leau Rouge and Radillon, but these days the popular consideration seems to be Leau Rouge is everything except the final left onto the straight. It is magnificent to behold-scary even without any cars on it-like a huge tidal wave towering above you.

Thanks again for posting this great footage.