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Montezemolo speaks again (attacks everything & everyone)


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#101 Totall73

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 11:41

Bear in mind that this is a report of an interview that LdM gave to the Sports Editor of the Corriere della Sera. It was presumably conducted in Italian and this is a translation of it - by someone with a rather overblown writing style but probably not LdM himself. I don't speak Italian but it is possible that the original Italian text would come across as less pompous.

I have to admit that the "Drivers, we’ve had a lot, some very good, some great, but drivers come and go, while Ferrari remains." reminded me of "My Way": "Regrets, I've had a few, but then again, too few to mention."

It was presented in the Ferrari official web site. I believe it´s pretty much exctly what LdiM wanted to express.

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#102 Totall73

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 11:45

Well said by Luca. He's been around the block long enough to know of what he speaks.

Actually I felt pretty much the same even though I find it amusing that he´s clearly expressing himself the way old Enzo did ("Ferrari and I have the same DNA..."). I mean he´s the long time president of the company but he´s no Enzo.

#103 Totall73

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 12:22

What options are there for FA? They need to make it work.


The picture is starting to get clearer to me, at least I think so in my little (Finnish) mind:

--> Kimi is about to close (or has already closed) a Ferrari deal to replace Massa (Kimi in Germany: "Some people may find my 2014 decision grazy...". Too much said if it´s RBR or Lotus, I think)

--> Kimi is in very good terms with the Ferrari team, incl. Domenicali. They did not want to let him go in the first place. He was a victim of a big Ferrari/Fiat/Santander deal that included FA and FM driving for them (2010-2013?). (Domenicali, when asked which drivers he would hire in his own PERSONAL team: "Kimi and Fernando". Domenicali, when asked who of the drivers outside Ferrari he liked the most: "Kimi Räikkönen".

--> Fernando has been informed about the Kimi situation. He feels humiliated (maybe also worried about his status and opponent in 2014? Kimi is Scuderia´s last champion, FAST and has huge race craft). FA´s first reaction is to knock the door of RBR.

--> RBR´s star is Vettel and they don´t want to destabilize their team by hiring a great driver but also politically oriented FA & his staff (Vettel in Hungary: "I´d rather drive with Kimi, I respect him also off track and he´s been straight with me"

--> Mercedes has HAM and ROS and they are very much satisfied with them. The team is a ricing force, no need to change anything. So, no ALO for Mercedes in 2014

--> There´s absolutely no way that FA could go to McLaren as long as Ron Dennis lives. Period.

--> Lotus? 3rd time back to a team with financial problems. No way - both ways.

--> LdiM says that he´s satisfied that in 2014 with the V6 engines aerodynamics no longer play that big part in F1. Could this mean that Ferrari is confident about their development of V6? (Kimi, related to his 2014 decision: "Next year we will have new engines. That plays a part too. Of course you hear rumours (about the engines) but you never know for sure. You just have to make your decision and live with it..")

So, as a conclusion: Ferrari 2014 with Kimi and FA.

#104 Tonka

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 12:32

How sad for Ferrari. They receive more money than any other team, in fact more than half the grid combined. They get to set the rules of F1 with their veto. Despite all this they still can't win.

Sorry, Montezemolo I have no sympathy for your problems at all. A little less arrogance from you and your team wouldn't go amiss given your long history of failure.



#105 jj2728

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 12:52

A little less arrogance from you and your team wouldn't go amiss given your long history of failure.


History of failure? What history have you been reading?

#106 four1

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 13:10

Im sure Lotus will pick him up if he gets kicked ... but kicked he will get from the Red team (and rightly so) if he doesnt mind his p's and q's ... Team above driver.. If you keep slagging your team in public and they have been talking to you behind closed doors and you keep it up then i have no problem with you receiving a public rebuke.. Ferrari is not the team i support .. but it is a team i respect .. as well as Mclaren and Williams .. they are the established teams and Alonso is but one of many great drivers that have and will pass through their doors.

Monty talks alot of trash sometimes but this is one time i cannot fault him. Its not like the team isnt trying to give him a decent car. Im sure they are working their asses off!!

If i was a team member and the driver told me he wished he was in another car i would be like.. ok then ... go get it .. !! That comment about wishing for another car probably demotivated a few people.. and demotivation is NOT what Ferrari needs right now. Hence the rebuke..

:up: Excellent post, I agree 100%.
LdM is simply putting Alonso back in his place and reminding him that he's only just one component of many in the team. Now the ball's back in Alonso's court. Let's see what FA will do in reaction but I suspect he'll just shut up and whimper.

#107 four1

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 13:14

How sad for Ferrari. They receive more money than any other team, in fact more than half the grid combined. They get to set the rules of F1 with their veto. Despite all this they still can't win.

Sorry, Montezemolo I have no sympathy for your problems at all. A little less arrogance from you and your team wouldn't go amiss given your long history of failure.

Judging from the gist of your post, I believe that if Ferrari were to show less arrogance then you and your peers wouldn't recognize it.

#108 noikeee

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 13:26

The picture is starting to get clearer to me, at least I think so in my little (Finnish) mind:

--> Kimi is about to close (or has already closed) a Ferrari deal to replace Massa (Kimi in Germany: "Some people may find my 2014 decision grazy...". Too much said if it´s RBR or Lotus, I think)

--> Kimi is in very good terms with the Ferrari team, incl. Domenicali. They did not want to let him go in the first place. He was a victim of a big Ferrari/Fiat/Santander deal that included FA and FM driving for them (2010-2013?). (Domenicali, when asked which drivers he would hire in his own PERSONAL team: "Kimi and Fernando". Domenicali, when asked who of the drivers outside Ferrari he liked the most: "Kimi Räikkönen".

--> Fernando has been informed about the Kimi situation. He feels humiliated (maybe also worried about his status and opponent in 2014? Kimi is Scuderia´s last champion, FAST and has huge race craft). FA´s first reaction is to knock the door of RBR.

--> RBR´s star is Vettel and they don´t want to destabilize their team by hiring a great driver but also politically oriented FA & his staff (Vettel in Hungary: "I´d rather drive with Kimi, I respect him also off track and he´s been straight with me"

--> Mercedes has HAM and ROS and they are very much satisfied with them. The team is a ricing force, no need to change anything. So, no ALO for Mercedes in 2014

--> There´s absolutely no way that FA could go to McLaren as long as Ron Dennis lives. Period.

--> Lotus? 3rd time back to a team with financial problems. No way - both ways.

--> LdiM says that he´s satisfied that in 2014 with the V6 engines aerodynamics no longer play that big part in F1. Could this mean that Ferrari is confident about their development of V6? (Kimi, related to his 2014 decision: "Next year we will have new engines. That plays a part too. Of course you hear rumours (about the engines) but you never know for sure. You just have to make your decision and live with it..")

So, as a conclusion: Ferrari 2014 with Kimi and FA.


That's a decent reading of things as they stand, and a not entirely impossible scenario, but I still think the most likely thing to happen is Kimi to Red Bull, and this whole bullshit of Alonso moving and Kimi to Ferrari and all that crap, is almost all based on ploys from the various negotiating parties in the Kimi/Red Bull deal, while Alonso and Ferrari try to shift the blame of not winning on each other.

#109 BoschKurve

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 17:58

I also don't agree with him that aerodynamics is irrelevant in road cars. Look at some of the advances with road cars now on the aerodynamic side. The McLaren P1 is going to destroy all other production road cars around a track and that's going to be a large part due to its aerodynamics. Of course many other aspects of F1 are transferrable to road cars, e.g KERS, exotic materials etc.

LdM comes across to me as dismissive of aerodynamics simply because his team is lacking in it. If they were dominant due to aero, he'd love it. If in 2014, his team struggles because it has built a poor engine, you'll hear LdM whining that turbos are not within the spirit of F1. But instead if their engine is dominant, he'll be waxing lyrical at how this proves Ferrari's technical capability in engines and the engine changes are exactly what F1 needs.

In short, if something suits Ferrari = good. If it doesn't suit, then = unfair.


Ok, and how many people can actually afford a hypercar? :lol:

Aerodynamics are irrelevant for everyday commuter cars which happens to be what the bulk of the driving population of the planet uses. It's nice to see what they do with hypercars, but the relevance to every day driving is minimal. There is a big myth on-going that F1 somehow has relevance to every day production cars; it doesn't nor has it for a long time. The big secret is open-wheel racing has no relevance left to every day production cars.

Formula Aero as I like to call it, has created an ungodly amount of problems with the sport as a whole. It's not interesting nor relevant to most fans. The lack of on-track action that we saw increasing over the years was a direct result of the idiocy of the aero-dominate focus of F1. How else do you explain a sport that continues relying on the antiquated and idiotic flat bottom rule of 1983? All of the aerodynamic woes stem out of that garbage rule.

Engines should matter in F1 as that has always been one of the main proponents that drives manufacturer interest in motorsport. Yet they do not matter, and have not mattered for 5 years now. Restricting development was another one of those short-sighted moves that served no purpose at all. Even the fawning currently ongoing over the 2014 engine regulations is going to be a big disappointment to most people once it becomes obvious that it's pretty much a spec-engine with different valve covers slapped on. Don't believe me? Take a look at the rulebook for the specifications on the turbo engines. It's a joke.

Luca's comments about the 'unfair aerodynamics' of Red Bull are very ironic. Remember, Enzo Ferrari used to say: 'Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines.'


Here's the important thing about your paraphrased quote from Enzo Ferrari.

In another era, you used to be able to develop the engines.

Kind of hard to develop an engine when they aren't allowed to be developed. So the Enzo quote has zero relevance to F1 in 2013.

#110 Astro

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 18:21

The picture is starting to get clearer to me, at least I think so in my little (Finnish) mind:

--> Kimi is about to close (or has already closed) a Ferrari deal to replace Massa (Kimi in Germany: "Some people may find my 2014 decision grazy...". Too much said if it´s RBR or Lotus, I think)

--> Kimi is in very good terms with the Ferrari team, incl. Domenicali. They did not want to let him go in the first place. He was a victim of a big Ferrari/Fiat/Santander deal that included FA and FM driving for them (2010-2013?). (Domenicali, when asked which drivers he would hire in his own PERSONAL team: "Kimi and Fernando". Domenicali, when asked who of the drivers outside Ferrari he liked the most: "Kimi Räikkönen".

--> Fernando has been informed about the Kimi situation. He feels humiliated (maybe also worried about his status and opponent in 2014? Kimi is Scuderia´s last champion, FAST and has huge race craft). FA´s first reaction is to knock the door of RBR.

--> RBR´s star is Vettel and they don´t want to destabilize their team by hiring a great driver but also politically oriented FA & his staff (Vettel in Hungary: "I´d rather drive with Kimi, I respect him also off track and he´s been straight with me"

--> Mercedes has HAM and ROS and they are very much satisfied with them. The team is a ricing force, no need to change anything. So, no ALO for Mercedes in 2014

--> There´s absolutely no way that FA could go to McLaren as long as Ron Dennis lives. Period.

--> Lotus? 3rd time back to a team with financial problems. No way - both ways.

--> LdiM says that he´s satisfied that in 2014 with the V6 engines aerodynamics no longer play that big part in F1. Could this mean that Ferrari is confident about their development of V6? (Kimi, related to his 2014 decision: "Next year we will have new engines. That plays a part too. Of course you hear rumours (about the engines) but you never know for sure. You just have to make your decision and live with it..")

So, as a conclusion: Ferrari 2014 with Kimi and FA.


Interesting, although the points about Alonso are quite unlikely. He hasn't given any hint that he wants to go anywhere.

But you don't need Alonso in the picture when it comes to Kimi. RBR needs an experience driver to replace Webber in order to provide good points for WCC and help in the development of the car. If Kimi goes to RBR and Ferrari keeps Massa, the WCC is going to be all much harder to get for the red team. Of all the current drivers available for next year, only Kimi is a known quantity. If Ferrari doesn't get him, then they still have to find someone to replace Massa, because they know he is not very consistent and Kimi will not give as much breathing room as Webber. For me, the best option is to get Kimi before RBR does, but I feel Ferrari will miss the boat on this one too.

#111 MMandi

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 20:16

Interesting, although the points about Alonso are quite unlikely. He hasn't given any hint that he wants to go anywhere.

But you don't need Alonso in the picture when it comes to Kimi. RBR needs an experience driver to replace Webber in order to provide good points for WCC and help in the development of the car. If Kimi goes to RBR and Ferrari keeps Massa, the WCC is going to be all much harder to get for the red team. Of all the current drivers available for next year, only Kimi is a known quantity. If Ferrari doesn't get him, then they still have to find someone to replace Massa, because they know he is not very consistent and Kimi will not give as much breathing room as Webber. For me, the best option is to get Kimi before RBR does, but I feel Ferrari will miss the boat on this one too.


I really think some people are going to be surprised if the Kimi V Seb battle happens, regarding performance that is

Edited by MMandi, 04 August 2013 - 20:17.


#112 surbjits

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 20:28

It is quite dramatic how far Ferrari fortunes have fallen since Todt and Raikkonen left.


To me, it is dramatic how much changed after Schumacher lefted -> That triggered a lot of things.

#113 Sakae

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 21:15

The picture is starting to get clearer to me, at least I think so in my little (Finnish) mind:

--> Kimi is about to close (or has already closed) a Ferrari deal to replace Massa (Kimi in Germany: "Some people may find my 2014 decision grazy...". Too much said if it´s RBR or Lotus, I think)

--> Kimi is in very good terms with the Ferrari team, incl. Domenicali. They did not want to let him go in the first place. He was a victim of a big Ferrari/Fiat/Santander deal that included FA and FM driving for them (2010-2013?). (Domenicali, when asked which drivers he would hire in his own PERSONAL team: "Kimi and Fernando". Domenicali, when asked who of the drivers outside Ferrari he liked the most: "Kimi Räikkönen".

--> Fernando has been informed about the Kimi situation. He feels humiliated (maybe also worried about his status and opponent in 2014? Kimi is Scuderia´s last champion, FAST and has huge race craft). FA´s first reaction is to knock the door of RBR.

--> RBR´s star is Vettel and they don´t want to destabilize their team by hiring a great driver but also politically oriented FA & his staff (Vettel in Hungary: "I´d rather drive with Kimi, I respect him also off track and he´s been straight with me"

--> Mercedes has HAM and ROS and they are very much satisfied with them. The team is a ricing force, no need to change anything. So, no ALO for Mercedes in 2014

--> There´s absolutely no way that FA could go to McLaren as long as Ron Dennis lives. Period.

--> Lotus? 3rd time back to a team with financial problems. No way - both ways.

--> LdiM says that he´s satisfied that in 2014 with the V6 engines aerodynamics no longer play that big part in F1. Could this mean that Ferrari is confident about their development of V6? (Kimi, related to his 2014 decision: "Next year we will have new engines. That plays a part too. Of course you hear rumours (about the engines) but you never know for sure. You just have to make your decision and live with it..")

So, as a conclusion: Ferrari 2014 with Kimi and FA.

Wolfie is not going to like that...

#114 Wolfie

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 21:55

Wolfie is not going to like that...


:wave: :up: :lol:


#115 Sheeana

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 09:10

Dedicated to Luca Cordero di Montezemolo :p
Music: Queen - Living On My Own

Losing To Red Bull
Sometimes Ferrari’s gonna break down and stop (so slowly)
And in fast corners it’s losing too much time
Cars go slowly, so slowly, losing to Red Bull
Sometimes I feel Massa's driving is too bad (so slowly)
And everything is coming down on me, down on me, I go crazy
Oh so crazy – losing to Red Bull.

Dee do de de, dee do de de
I don't have no time for no monkeybusiness
Dee do de de, dee do de de
Cars go so slowly, slowly, slowly, slowly, yeah
Got to be some titles ahead

Sometimes I feel FIA don’t give me backing
Find my head is always up in the clouds in a dreamworld
It's not easy – losing to Red Bull, Red Bull, Red Bull

Dee do de de, dee do de de
I don't have no time for no monkeybusiness
Dee do de de, dee do de de
Cars go so slowly, slowly, slowly, slowly, yeah
Got to be some titles ahead

Come on Nando!

Dee do de de, dee do de de
I don't have no time for no monkeybusiness
Dee do de de, dee do de de
Cars go so slowly, slowly, slowly, slowly, yeah
Got to be some titles ahead


Sorry for mistakes, I couldn't resist the temptation :)

Edited by Sheeana, 05 August 2013 - 09:17.


#116 Blackmore

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 09:19

It was very unprofessional of Alonso to make those kind of remarks in Hungary (and also before) because he should be uniting and inspiring the team. But it is also unprofessional of little Monte to make these kind of remarks in public.

They both should have done their penis measuring contest behind closed doors.

#117 Slackbladder

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 11:36

In sport, you're either giving pressure, or your receiving pressure.

Red Bull, and increasingly Mercedes are giving pressure to Ferrari, and until that changes on track, they just have to soak it up, and work harder.

Ferrari have a great history, and a wonderful heritage, but they don't have a god-ordained right to be at the top, only hard work and blood, sweat and tears get you there.

The same pressure applies to Alonso from Vettel.

#118 Sakae

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 11:55

In sport, you're either giving pressure, or your receiving pressure.

Red Bull, and increasingly Mercedes are giving pressure to Ferrari, and until that changes on track, they just have to soak it up, and work harder smarter.

Ferrari have a great history, and a wonderful heritage, but they don't have a god-ordained right to be at the top, only hard work and blood, sweat and tears get you there.

The same pressure applies to Alonso from Vettel.

...little correction, if you don't mind.

#119 Slackbladder

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 12:14

...little correction, if you don't mind.


I don't mind at all..

You can moan about Newey until the clouds come home, but the overall package of Red Bull, and that's all aspects of it, Newey, Vettel and Horner along with many others are getting the job done.

Ferrari have produced too many duds for too many years. Alonso's a great driver, but he cracked under pressure last year when he really should have got that WDC in a car which wasn't as good. That was his chance to get 'amongst the greats'.

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#120 Winter98

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 13:48

Ferrari have produced too many duds for too many years. Alonso's a great driver, but he cracked under pressure last year when he really should have got that WDC in a car which wasn't as good. That was his chance to get 'amongst the greats'.


Interesting point.

I wonder if FA's poor start to this season, and now his public denouncement of the car, is a result of his frustration at missing out on that chance.

Realistically, with so few seasons remaining in his career, it is looking less and less likely he will be regarded as the best of his generation, let alone one of the greats.

Edited by Winter98, 05 August 2013 - 13:49.


#121 motorhead

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 17:58

Alonso has said a lot of negative things about Ferrari during these years, Monte just had enough of it and showed who is the boss. I totally understand it. It seems to me that Luca standed that downplaying of Ferrari for a quite long time. It´s about time someone opens spoiled kid´s eyes...

#122 Sabre1977

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 18:41

Alonso has said a lot of negative things about Ferrari during these years, Monte just had enough of it and showed who is the boss. I totally understand it. It seems to me that Luca standed that downplaying of Ferrari for a quite long time. It´s about time someone opens spoiled kid´s eyes...

I can't cope with all this bullshit

I think that a future with alonso being fired and kimi returning to Ferrari will be almost a wet dream for the majority of this forum. But the only fact is Fernando is one of the main assets of the scuderia nowadays and Ferrari will be very stupid if they forget that.fernandi has saved domenicalli's ass too many times

A driver complaining for a faster car... I can bet that is not the first, or the last time

#123 PoleMan

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Posted 05 August 2013 - 19:27

I can't cope with all this bullshit

I think that a future with alonso being fired and kimi returning to Ferrari will be almost a wet dream for the majority of this forum. But the only fact is Fernando is one of the main assets of the scuderia nowadays and Ferrari will be very stupid if they forget that.fernandi has saved domenicalli's ass too many times

A driver complaining for a faster car... I can bet that is not the first, or the last time

:up: :up: :up:

#124 dublin

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 06:48

Interesting point.

I wonder if FA's poor start to this season, and now his public denouncement of the car, is a result of his frustration at missing out on that chance.

Realistically, with so few seasons remaining in his career, it is looking less and less likely he will be regarded as the best of his generation, let alone one of the greats.



I guess you are a bit behind the times because was widely regarded as one of the greats about 6 years ago before he reached the extraordinary heights he did at Ferrari. No doubt he is frustrated though at the teams constant failure to support him. He has also been rated the best driver in the paddock since 2006 almost universally in polls and by fans, so if that's not grounds to be regarded as best of his generation then I'm not sure what is.

His 'poor' start of this season is also quite a sillya accusation considering he won 2 races, and his only mistake was very slight which resulted in a DNF. But I guess when you are so perfect for so long, the vultures will try and pick on the smallest things in their desperation to tear you down. Alonso still has a good 4 years left, hopefully the red fools learn to design a fast car in that time.

Edited by dublin, 06 August 2013 - 06:48.


#125 labarte

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 12:08

LdM's public rants just go to show how badly run Ferrari currently is. We hardly heard a peep out of LdM when Todt was in charge but because Dom is so weak LdM feels he can mouth off. Long term Ferrari watchers know that LdM felt left out when Brawn-Schumi-Todt axis was in full effect, and it is his attempts to become more involved that has lead to Ferrari's barren seasons. I know that they have come close to WDCs but that is more down to Alonso driving very well and Red Bull doing their best to mess up than Ferrari consistently being the best car.

In Marko Red Bull have someone who is not officially in a direct position of power themselves but who can make controversial statements and has the media's ear. This allows different messages to those of the official team principle to be projected. This helps manage the team's relationship with the media. So for example when Vettel behaves like a spoiled brat, Horner can pretend to be annoyed while Marko can stick up for him -- this way Red Bull as a whole can tell everyone, inside and outside the team, what they want to hear.

It is very different when the president of Ferrari starts talking as he has been. Luca needs a stronger leader than Dom for his team and to use a mouthpiece other than his own if he wants to criticise Alonso, who is one of the team's greatest assets. By initially dressing down Alonso then having had to backtrack LdM makes himself look foolish and damages the team.

LdM needs to put someone better than Dom in charge of Ferrari and stop interfering. Maybe the hiring of Allison is a signal that Dom is on the way out. I hope so because if Ferrari get hobbled by internal politics it will be like the bad old days of the 80s and early 90s.

#126 redreni

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 13:21

Here's the important thing about your paraphrased quote from Enzo Ferrari.

In another era, you used to be able to develop the engines.

Kind of hard to develop an engine when they aren't allowed to be developed. So the Enzo quote has zero relevance to F1 in 2013.


You are allowed to develop engines in 2013 i.e. the ones they're going to use from next year. It means Ferrari might be able to design a chassis that is aerodynamically inferior to Newey's again, and still win, but only if their engine is better than Renault's by some margin.

And while the Enzo quote may be irrelevant, the attitude it betrays isn't. The point is that it tells you something about Ferrari's reaction to the garagistas who, realising they were stuck with the customer engines they had and couldn't afford to get better ones, focused on the other side of the power-to-weight equation, namely weight, and also on aero. Ferrari were dismissive of aero and spent much of the late 1960s and early 1970s getting beaten by BRM and March and Tyrrell and Lotus and Brabham and Matra and McLaren despite having vastly more resources and the best engine. They only started winning again when they invested their resources in aero. F1 has been primarily an aero formula ever since. Saying "I build cars not planes" seems, to me at least, to show a lack of appreciation of the lessons learned back then. Despite the new engine rules, F1 will still be essentially an aero formula next year, and Ferrari had better hope the wind tunnel issues have been sorted out by then, and that James Allison arrives in time positively to affect the design process.

Edited by redreni, 06 August 2013 - 13:31.


#127 four1

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 15:46

LdM's public rants just go to show how badly run Ferrari currently is. We hardly heard a peep out of LdM when Todt was in charge but because Dom is so weak LdM feels he can mouth off. Long term Ferrari watchers know that LdM felt left out when Brawn-Schumi-Todt axis was in full effect, and it is his attempts to become more involved that has lead to Ferrari's barren seasons. I know that they have come close to WDCs but that is more down to Alonso driving very well and Red Bull doing their best to mess up than Ferrari consistently being the best car.

In Marko Red Bull have someone who is not officially in a direct position of power themselves but who can make controversial statements and has the media's ear. This allows different messages to those of the official team principle to be projected. This helps manage the team's relationship with the media. So for example when Vettel behaves like a spoiled brat, Horner can pretend to be annoyed while Marko can stick up for him -- this way Red Bull as a whole can tell everyone, inside and outside the team, what they want to hear.

It is very different when the president of Ferrari starts talking as he has been. Luca needs a stronger leader than Dom for his team and to use a mouthpiece other than his own if he wants to criticise Alonso, who is one of the team's greatest assets. By initially dressing down Alonso then having had to backtrack LdM makes himself look foolish and damages the team.

LdM needs to put someone better than Dom in charge of Ferrari and stop interfering. Maybe the hiring of Allison is a signal that Dom is on the way out. I hope so because if Ferrari get hobbled by internal politics it will be like the bad old days of the 80s and early 90s.

I didn't notice any backtracking by LdM. I also didn't notice anyone speaking on his behalf like Flavio Briatore had to do on behalf of the very bold and brave Fernando Alonso to prevent him from hurting himself. http://www.autosport...t.php/id/109135

Funny how perception works.

Edited by four1, 06 August 2013 - 15:50.


#128 fabr68

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 16:49

Alonso has said a lot of negative things about Ferrari during these years, Monte just had enough of it and showed who is the boss. I totally understand it. It seems to me that Luca standed that downplaying of Ferrari for a quite long time. It´s about time someone opens spoiled kid´s eyes...


Please explain what the "negative" things have been said

Edited by fabr68, 06 August 2013 - 16:50.


#129 labarte

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 19:07

I didn't notice any backtracking by LdM. I also didn't notice anyone speaking on his behalf like Flavio Briatore had to do on behalf of the very bold and brave Fernando Alonso to prevent him from hurting himself. http://www.autosport...t.php/id/109135

Funny how perception works.


LdM initially said:

"There is a need to close ranks, without giving in to rash outbursts that, while understandable in the immediate aftermath of a bad result, are no use to anyone."

Then in a later interview with Corriere he was more ameliorative:

"Fernando is a great driver and I understand him, he is a bit like me: he wants to win"

So maybe 'backtracking' is a bit too strong a term but he definitely changed his tune a bit when he realised that attacking Alonso wasn't doing anyone any favours. LdM should be above these kind of media shenanigans.



#130 TheF1BOB

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 19:14

Alonso has said a lot of negative things about Ferrari during these years, Monte just had enough of it and showed who is the boss. I totally understand it. It seems to me that Luca standed that downplaying of Ferrari for a quite long time. It´s about time someone opens spoiled kid´s eyes...


What are you talking about? Alonso has saved Ferrari's backside ever since he's been there.

They need to deliver the goods and quick.

#131 sopa

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 19:29

Reading the interview, LDM seems to carry the old Enzo Ferrari's attitude - aerodynamics is for those, who can't build good engines. Certainly LDM is through and through Ferrari, every thought indicates it. Which in one way is lovely that he is so passionate about the brand, then again can cause problems with those, who have a different view. Ron Dennis also has a certain vision, how McLaren should look like. Same with Frank Williams I believe.

Team leaders, especially if they are legends, are so strong-minded that basically it is up to drivers to come and adapt to the mindset and culture in there. For Frank Williams drivers should be no-bullshit racers without team orders. Many WDC's went away from there. We know in McLaren many drivers have left. Drivers can complain, but in the end none of them is bigger than the team philosophy. Indeed.

This shows, what made Schumacher a great driver-politician. He could adapt his mindset to whatever was going on in the team and be in a harmonious family.

#132 EthanM

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 19:44

Reading the interview, LDM seems to carry the old Enzo Ferrari's attitude - aerodynamics is for those, who can't build good engines. Certainly LDM is through and through Ferrari


LdM is certainly opportunistic like Enzo was. Hint: LdM didn't give a damn about aerodynamics ruling the early noughties, but back then he had the wunderteam of Byrne/Brawn/Todt/Schumi ;)

Not that there's anything wrong with being opportunistic

#133 crespo

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 20:05

What are you talking about? Alonso has saved Ferrari's backside ever since he's been there.

They need to deliver the goods and quick.

This. I don't know where people are getting that Alonso has been negative towards Ferrari at all. I only remember him propping the team up even after losing WDCs in the last races. He may have said some things in 2011 that I can't remember, but I'd like to see actual quotes where Alonso badmouths Ferrari when things haven't gone well since he's been with the team.

#134 Winter98

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Posted 06 August 2013 - 21:53

I guess you are a bit behind the times because was widely regarded as one of the greats about 6 years ago before he reached the extraordinary heights he did at Ferrari. No doubt he is frustrated though at the teams constant failure to support him. He has also been rated the best driver in the paddock since 2006 almost universally in polls and by fans, so if that's not grounds to be regarded as best of his generation then I'm not sure what is.

His 'poor' start of this season is also quite a sillya accusation considering he won 2 races, and his only mistake was very slight which resulted in a DNF. But I guess when you are so perfect for so long, the vultures will try and pick on the smallest things in their desperation to tear you down. Alonso still has a good 4 years left, hopefully the red fools learn to design a fast car in that time.


Alonso has 2 WDCs. No modern driver with only 2 WDCs will ever be considered as good as Senna, MS, AP, Nuvolari, etc.

Well, except by his diehard fans, or those desperate not to give another driver his due.

Edited by Winter98, 06 August 2013 - 21:56.


#135 2ms

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 09:40

I guess you are a bit behind the times because was widely regarded as one of the greats about 6 years ago before he reached the extraordinary heights he did at Ferrari. No doubt he is frustrated though at the teams constant failure to support him. He has also been rated the best driver in the paddock since 2006 almost universally in polls and by fans, so if that's not grounds to be regarded as best of his generation then I'm not sure what is.

His 'poor' start of this season is also quite a sillya accusation considering he won 2 races, and his only mistake was very slight which resulted in a DNF. But I guess when you are so perfect for so long, the vultures will try and pick on the smallest things in their desperation to tear you down. Alonso still has a good 4 years left, hopefully the red fools learn to design a fast car in that time.


Don't throw him on the heap of F1 washouts just yet. Ferrari hasn't worked out but maybe he'll be able to go to a team like Lotus and do something like what Kimi has been doing there. As you say, he has a few more years in F1 and the fat lady hasn't sung yet. No sense in getting overly stressed.

#136 revlec

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 10:09

What are you talking about? Alonso has saved Ferrari's backside ever since he's been there.

They need to deliver the goods and quick.


That is what he is paid for.
And we will find out very soon if the next driver will do better.

Edited by revlec, 07 August 2013 - 10:14.


#137 Sabre1977

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 15:12

That is what he is paid for.



Nope.

He is paid for doing the best possible with the material at his disposal. Given the fact that two times in three years at Ferrari he as been regarded as "The best driver" of the year , and fight for the WDC until the last race, I think he is doing his job right.
The engineers, staff etc. of Ferrari are paid for designing, constructing and evolving WDC and WCC capable cars (This is Ferrari). Given the fact that in three years in a row the team was never in contention to win the WCC, and doing internal reorganizations in engineering staff due to the bad results, I think is clear who is (are) the one(s) to blame.

And we will find out very soon if the next driver will do better.

With the material at his disposal, don´t forget.

Edited by Sabre1977, 07 August 2013 - 15:14.


#138 JaredS

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 16:34

He has also been rated the best driver in the paddock since 2006 almost universally in polls and by fans, so if that's not grounds to be regarded as best of his generation then I'm not sure what is.


How about number of WDCs? Do you think that might be a half decent measure? On second thoughts, hmmm yes maybe polls and fans trumps a 3rd World Driver's Championship. :lol:

#139 SpaMaster

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 18:27

I guess you are a bit behind the times because was widely regarded as one of the greats about 6 years ago before he reached the extraordinary heights he did at Ferrari. No doubt he is frustrated though at the teams constant failure to support him. He has also been rated the best driver in the paddock since 2006 almost universally in polls and by fans, so if that's not grounds to be regarded as best of his generation then I'm not sure what is.

His 'poor' start of this season is also quite a sillya accusation considering he won 2 races, and his only mistake was very slight which resulted in a DNF. But I guess when you are so perfect for so long, the vultures will try and pick on the smallest things in their desperation to tear you down. Alonso still has a good 4 years left, hopefully the red fools learn to design a fast car in that time.

In 2006, he was widely regarded as one of the greats? What is the width and in which world is it? There is no clear single "the best of his generation" driver currently in F1, mainly because we have such riches of talent right now. Alonso, Raikkonen, Hamilton and Vettel belong there. There is no stand-out best among these.

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#140 discover23

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 18:46

How about number of WDCs? Do you think that might be a half decent measure? On second thoughts, hmmm yes maybe polls and fans trumps a 3rd World Driver's Championship. :lol:

if you go by that then Kimi and Lewis are as good as Button and JV and Vettel is three times better than them. . :lol:

#141 Winter98

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 19:22

if you go by that then Kimi and Lewis are as good as Button and JV and Vettel is three times better than them. . :lol:


Three WDCs certainly puts you in the discussion as one of the top ten of all time. Four WDCs puts you into the discussion as one of the all timers.

Unless Kimi, Lewis, Jenson, and JV get more WDCs, they won't be in those discussions.

That's just the way it is for modern F1 drivers.

Edited by Winter98, 07 August 2013 - 19:28.


#142 NoDivergence

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 19:24

Alonso has said a lot of negative things about Ferrari during these years, Monte just had enough of it and showed who is the boss. I totally understand it. It seems to me that Luca standed that downplaying of Ferrari for a quite long time. It´s about time someone opens spoiled kid´s eyes...


It's not downplaying Ferrari if they truly are down there

#143 Winter98

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 19:31

It's not downplaying Ferrari if they truly are down there


If Alonso had maximized his points at the beginning of the season when the Ferrari was the best car, the WDC and WCC would be neck and neck, maybe even with FA ahead by a point or two, and no one would be so worried.

Edited by Winter98, 07 August 2013 - 19:31.


#144 discover23

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 20:34

Three WDCs certainly puts you in the discussion as one of the top ten of all time. Four WDCs puts you into the discussion as one of the all timers.

Unless Kimi, Lewis, Jenson, and JV get more WDCs, they won't be in those discussions.

That's just the way it is for modern F1 drivers.


Piquet 3WDC / Mansell 1 WDC.

#145 PoleMan

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 21:36

Piquet 3WDC / Mansell 1 WDC.

Gilles: ZERO WDC. What a Wanker! Everyone holds him in such low regard. :lol:

Edited by PoleMan, 07 August 2013 - 21:38.


#146 Watkins74

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 21:42

Three WDCs certainly puts you in the discussion as one of the top ten of all time. Four WDCs puts you into the discussion as one of the all timers.

Unless Kimi, Lewis, Jenson, and JV get more WDCs, they won't be in those discussions.

That's just the way it is for modern F1 drivers.

:up:
The big trophy counts no matter how hard people try to play the "context" card.

#147 Winter98

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 22:03

Gilles: ZERO WDC. What a Wanker! Everyone holds him in such low regard. :lol:


What a ridiculous comment.

He's not modern F1, and none of Kimi, JV, Button, or Lewis is close to GV. I am Canadian, but still.

Edited by Winter98, 07 August 2013 - 22:05.


#148 Winter98

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 22:12

Piquet 3WDC / Mansell 1 WDC.



Nelson Piquet is legitimately in the discussion for top ten. That's exactly what I said 3 WDCs earns you.

You must be unaware that Nigel Mansell raced out side of Formula 1. In 93 or 94 he moved to the Indy CART series, and won the series championship. So that's winning two different premier open wheel series championships. Impressive no matter how you look at it, especially as he won in his "rookie" year in CART..

Edited by Winter98, 07 August 2013 - 22:13.


#149 Winter98

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 22:18

:up:
The big trophy counts no matter how hard people try to play the "context" card.


Indeed.

But now people start bringing up the number of championships won by Clark, etc., completely ignoring their brilliant careers outside of F1, and the reason they are legends.

Speaking of which, I can remember watching Jim Clark race in the Indy 500. In those days the Indy 500 was like the super bowl is today (At least in North America). I was just a kid cheering soooo hard for him to win. My parents bought me the Lotus Dinky Toy shortly after and I spent endless hours racing it around the floor. :D

Edited by Winter98, 07 August 2013 - 22:23.


#150 PoleMan

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Posted 08 August 2013 - 02:16

What a ridiculous comment.

He's not modern F1, and none of Kimi, JV, Button, or Lewis is close to GV. I am Canadian, but still.

Of course it MUST be ridiculous because you disagree with it. Perhaps it's your moronic statement equating numerical championships with legendary status that takes the cake for silliness? ;)

Using your logic, Michael should be, hands-down, THE BEST, with Prost right behind, but they rarely achieve that standing in any poll. Senna, Fangio, even Clark regularly beat them. Hmmmm? How many championships does Clark have again? Oh, and I believe little ole, 2-timeWDC, Alonso is also already well-within the Top 10 ALL-TIME in some surveys, even though YOU SAY [i]"Three WDCs certainly puts you in the discussion as one of the top ten of all time. Four WDCs puts you into the discussion as one of the all timers."[/i] How in the heck did he manage it? Emperor, get on some clothes...quick! :lol:

http://formula-one.s...la-one-drivers/
http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/20324109
http://edition.cnn.c...na-f1motorsport

Edited by PoleMan, 08 August 2013 - 02:21.