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Hitting their peak?


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#51 Ragamuffin

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Posted 01 August 2023 - 07:32

Max has enough time to hit a couple of peaks. I've never seen man and machine so perfectly entwined. He is somewhere very special now. As Racingfan10 said above, age is his ally - this isn't the raw genius of Hamilton at a similar age, this is the advantages of genius, youth and hard-earned experience together. He's like Dylan writing "It's Alright, Ma" at 23 and everybody else going, I didn't even realise such a a thing was possible. Given the right circumstances he could falter though, and from that a different creature would emerge. He's nothing like Vettel though, Their track records have only a passing similarity. Peak Vettel (13) was a site to behold but there was always a question of fragility and worth because it came so quickly and with such up and down performances, too many caveats. And so was proved to be unfortunately, because he was a genuinely exciting racer.

 

Alonso's peak was Ferrari, just relentless, but Ferrari break even the best. every driver leaves a shell of their former self.

 

Hamilton is tricky. I couldn't name a season, rather the period of one, the back end, with all to play for, that's when we see the best of him, regardless of year ('07 excepted).

 

Schumacher. He was also utterly relentless, so who knows which season. All of them maybe. Every race like a goddamn shark in bloodied waters. Forced to pick, then twin peaks, 97 and '06.

 

Prost 86. If he hadn't have come up against Senna the you could probably just say the '80s.

 

Senna. Late '80s, early '90s. You either have Senna in a dominant car railroading the field or Senna in a declining car almost railroading the field.



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#52 PlatenGlass

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Posted 01 August 2023 - 10:05

Most endurance athletes peak in their early to mid 30’s, not their 20’s

F1 drivers aren't really endurance athletes in the same way as e.g. runners or cyclists. It's largely their skill as drivers rather than raw physiological attributes that determines how good they are.

#53 Anderis

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Posted 01 August 2023 - 10:20

Most endurance athletes peak in their early to mid 30’s, not their 20’s

In road cycling, the peak used to be late 20's to early 30's not so long ago and you were just a young guy learning the sport until you were in your mid 20's but 2 out of the last 3 Tour de France winners won their first Tour de France when they were no older than 22...



#54 catent

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Posted 01 August 2023 - 11:15

While racing does rely on unconscious physical ability/reaction time (especially in cars as fast/twitchy as F1) that decline with age, leading one to conclude that drivers will likely peak at a younger age (prior to this physical ability declining), I do think it’s important to emphasize (at least IMHO) that - especially in racing - mental steadiness, toughness, and consistency is tremendously important. I think most racers will peak somewhere around age 26-32 when balancing physical ability with maturity and accrued experience.

Edited by catent, 01 August 2023 - 11:15.


#55 blackmme

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Posted 01 August 2023 - 11:36

He was outqualified by Rosberg in 2014 though.

 

It was very close between them but Hamilton had more mechanical issues in qualifying than Nico (Germany, Hungary) and ahem.... 'Monaco'.

 

Edited to say of course Lewis might not have out-qualified Nico on any of those occasions!

 

Regards Mike


Edited by blackmme, 01 August 2023 - 11:55.


#56 George Costanza

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Posted 01 August 2023 - 15:07

Alonso exclusive: I wouldn't want to compete against Verstappen at Red Bull | RacingNews365



Fernando would say that because he knows it's Max's team. If they were both 25 years old, certainly different story. However I do think Fernando would actually give him a run for his money in the Red Bull.

Edited by George Costanza, 01 August 2023 - 15:08.


#57 juicy sushi

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Posted 01 August 2023 - 17:17

I think that most often what we define the "peak" is the point where the youthfull raw pace is still there, but the experience has accumulated to the point where the "old man game" is now also apparent.  Prost in 1986 is maybe the clearest example of this because he grabbed a title that year through it.  It is probably a rare occasion when you can clearly point to a moment and say "that is him at his best, no question."



#58 messy

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Posted 01 August 2023 - 17:26

I think he’d be a better Perez, not as good as Max in qualifying but he’d at least try to make things happen to get on terms in the races. And behind the scenes he’d unleash full on evil politician mode to try and knock Max off his stride. And he might even succeed sometimes.

I think Senna’s peak was probably 1990 or 1991. With Berger replacing Prost in the other car he relaxed a bit and seemed to enjoy his driving more, unlike Schumacher I don’t personally think Senna’s burning desperation to beat his hated rival brought out the best in him, it made him more erratic and make more mistakes, I don’t think it channeled that rage to make him quicker. Schumacher did some erratic things too but sometimes that rage dragged some incredible things out of him.

Alonso I’d go with 2012. He had basically has one hand tied behind his back in 2011 Silverstone aside and after that experience was desperate to drag that Ferrari to wins and the championship through sheer force of will. On raw speed he and Massa were always close, but over the races in 2011-2012 there was often a gulf between them to the point where there was talk of Perez taking that seat straight after Sepang 2012.

#59 Dan333SP

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Posted 01 August 2023 - 17:57

Schumi was about 32 in 2000 when he won his 3rd WDC. He continued to win them until 2004 when he was about 36. In those days driving with the V10 engine cars with much more power and grip was physically much more demanding than driving nowadays and he had no problems with it. Therefore in my opinion the current cars actually favour elder, hugely experienced drivers like Kimi, Fernando etc.

 

This isn't true. The current cars have higher total power output than the best of the V10 era by a slim margin (and much higher torque across the rev range), and they develop a LOT more downforce with more mechanical grip than the 2000-2004 cars. They certainly need it because the current cars are something like 200kg heavier than the early 2000s machines. 

 

Whether it's physically more demanding to drive a modern car than a 2004 car is I suppose open for debate, not sure whether the power-assisted steering has gotten any heavier or if the braking pressures are higher, I'd imagine they're similar but you're just carrying more speed with less slip angle in these current cars. 



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#60 Dan333SP

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Posted 01 August 2023 - 18:00

In road cycling, the peak used to be late 20's to early 30's not so long ago and you were just a young guy learning the sport until you were in your mid 20's but 2 out of the last 3 Tour de France winners won their first Tour de France when they were no older than 22...

 

It blew my mind this year to see Pogacar in the white jersey still, 3 years after his first Tour win. 

 

We'll see how their performance goes over time, you could argue it's an accelerated talent development pipeline that allows these genetic monsters to rise to the top sooner vs. spending years as domestiques or riding below the world tour level as they would have 20 years ago. Barring injuries, I wouldn't be shocked to see JV/TP remaining competitive into their mid 30s, although burnout is real in that sport.  



#61 ForzaFormula

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Posted 01 August 2023 - 18:07

Fernando would say that because he knows it's Max's team. If they were both 25 years old, certainly different story. However I do think Fernando would actually give him a run for his money in the Red Bull.

Same story, he went into face Hamilton at his peak as a 2 time world champion, he knows how it goes if there a Hamilton/max situation, he prefers to be in his zone like at Renault.



#62 MrRat

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Posted 02 August 2023 - 14:23

Same story, he went into face Hamilton at his peak as a 2 time world champion, he knows how it goes if there a Hamilton/max situation, he prefers to be in his zone like at Renault.


You either have to be misinformed or disingenuous to call Fernando in 2006/2007 at his peak

#63 George Costanza

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Posted 02 August 2023 - 14:53

Same story, he went into face Hamilton at his peak as a 2 time world champion, he knows how it goes if there a Hamilton/max situation, he prefers to be in his zone like at Renault.


Peak Fernando is 2012-2013.