76 replies to this topic

[eronrules]

everytime i watch Hungarian GP, i'm always amazed to see drivers pushing the limits on 'Turn 4'. it's a blind left hander and even in the sims, you have to put blind faith on the car to make it correctly.

to me, it's perhaps the most difficult corner to make right in current F1 grid.

i'll also put forth some other corners that i personally think are close to being 'too difficult' and tests the driver and car's ability to the max

1. Hungaroring T4 (blind faith in car)

2. Nurburgring T1 (it's a bitch to make that corner without locking, also blind downhill)

3. shanghai T1-T4 (it just doesnt end ... does it)

4. Monaco T13-T14 (swimming pool chicane ... madness)

5. circuit giles villenueve T4 (it looks innocent, but in the wet, it becomes a killer)

6. Monza T8 'curva parabolica' (after pouhon in Spa was sanitized with concrete, this is the last power bend (fastest) left in current F1 with gravel traps)

7. Interlagos T1-T2 (senna 'S') high speed blind entry and plunging downhill ... awesomeness

8. Suzuka T1 (normally not an issue, but while overtaking, side by side it's tricky)

9. sepang T14 (it's always difficult to find the correct line)

10. the whole singapore GP circuit

these are on top of my head are perhaps the most riskiest corners that are harder to get right lap after lap and sorts out man from boys and Red bulls from Marussias.


any other suggestions????

[Alfisti]

Austin's essess look very tricky on TV, enter at the wrong line and it goes pear shaped quickly.

[Jackmancer]

On Playstation (if it's any indication), I found Turkey triple-apex corner really difficult, turn 8. I also think there's a lot of time to gain/lose in the Parabolica of Monza. Senna S at Sao Paulo it's really difficult to spot the apex. And Pouhon at Spa, if it has any real apex. Turn 14 in Malysia, cause your car wants to go the other way.

But my bet? Turn 3 to 10 at Circuit of the Americas. The S'es. Damn hard, and you have to hold back the throttle to get through that in a somewhat unnatural way. You just want to go too fast through there, only to outrace yourself as the track keeps narrowing down.

130R and Eau Rougue are flatout now so don't know if they're that diffuclt (but exciting).



PS: Corkscrew.

[Lan]

you'd have to define what getting corner right means..

getting it perfectly right? or is losing 0.1 acceptable?

I'd say it gotta be one of the fast corners, where there is only one perfect line, and it's easy to lose 0.1, like SPA's eau rouge, or Turkey's T8 (that long 4-apex one); though you can't really lose much in those corners.

[David Lightman]

I know nobody went but it's a tragedy that Turkey is no longer on the calendar. Whole track is fun and Turn 8 spectacular.

[Atreiu]

I'd name Spoon for Suzuka, fast entry and double apex. Lots of guys seem to miss their apex there.

And Degner too. Kind of the same, but much sharper.

Edited by Atreiu, 06 August 2013 - 19:59.

[Zoetrope]

I think when we had the same poll last year Pouhon and Istanbul Turn 8 were leading in votes. And I pretty much agree with it. Eau Rouge is flat out anyway

[Kobasmashi]

It's a shame 130R, Blanchimont and Eau Rouge have been neutered, as much by the downforce as by the Tarmac run-off either side. Degna 1 must be a candidate, it seems to consistently result in accidents.

[Baddoer]

Degner 2. Pretty difficult to find a limit here as many great drivers noticed
Overall, Suzuka takes my vote for toughest (but also a very rewarding) circuit in the calendar based on sim experience. Turn 1 and esses are awesome and Spoon feels good if you find good line through here.

[Skinnyguy]

Degner 1. It´s going wide there what causes all the accidents into Degner 2.

[Baddoer]

Degner 1. It´s going wide there what causes all the accidents into Degner 2.

No.

[olliek88]

Both Degner's i agree with especially Degner 1, tight quick flick to the right, get it even slightly wrong and you're at best going to run wide in Degner 2 and get worst skip across the gravel into the barriers. No margin for error at all.

[Shiroo]

Austin has few not bad corners from the new tracks.
from a bit older, i would pick Eau Rogue, as it used to be quite challenge, though people nowdays even overtake there, so maybe cars are a bit too mighty :]

[F1ultimate]

Most of the tricky ones have been listed by the OP but here's one which goes under the radar.


Indian GP Corner 12: This is probably not the most obvious one to people but it's a blind corner with a change in elevation. It's a corner that you can take fast but yet sort of can't. Going head to head with someone on time trial it's the type of corner where you can get a 0.5-1.5 second on someone, similar to how Copse and Maggot make or break Silverstone for a driver.

I'm happy that Eau Rouge hasn't been mentioned since it's a relatively easy one to take once you learn to commit. However the havoc most often follows when you get it wrong.

[TomNokoe]

My initial thought was Degner 1, and others agree. It's so fast and so tight.

[Vesuvius]

According to Kimi, Pouhon at spa.

[Skinnyguy]

No.

Yes. You put your outside loaded wheels in that piece of turf and can´t turn or brake to enter Degner 2 properly. Then you crash in Degner 2.

[Boxerevo]

At least in simulations, T10 Bahrein always have my full attention to do right.

Edited by Boxerevo, 06 August 2013 - 23:35.

[MP422]

Degners @ Suzuka

[fdspd]

In my opinion, the slow-medium corners where the car's downforce is not yet doing its job are the toughest. There might be a few drivers who would agree with this. You can make up or lose a LOT of time through such corners. Vettel/Hamilton through sector 3 in Abu Dhabi is a great example IMO. They consistently seem to be in a league of their own through that sector. Through faster corners the downforce does most of the job.

[noikeee]

I was thinking of the Sepang double-right which is much like the Degners.

Bahrain's downhill double left turn midcircuit (the one just before the back straight where a lot of drivers miss the apex and lock wheels) is a notoriously difficult corner too despite being relatively slow.

[OfficeLinebacker]

Degners for sure.

Honorable mention for pit lane exit at Abu Dhabi, that underground bit is after the pit lane speed limiter is lifted and it's narrow and easy to get out of shape on that turn comping up out of the tunnel.

[pingu666]

i havent found the parabolica to be harder than the other corners there. theres actually different lines though there.
swiming pool is pretty easy, i find the last chicane bit trickier

[HaydenFan]

At least in simulations, T10 Bahrein always have my full attention to do right.

It always seems to narrow to work right. All about slowing down while having the wheel turned, which is the not the most difficult thing to do, but when you add that you are braking before or after cresting a pretty decent hill makes things worse.

Tabac at Monte Carlo. A very fast corner, but misleading.

[Brother Fox]

And Degner too. Kind of the same, but much sharper.

Degna 1 must be a candidate, it seems to consistently result in accidents.

Degner 1. It´s going wide there what causes all the accidents into Degner 2.

Both Degner's i agree with especially Degner 1

My initial thought was Degner 1, and others agree. It's so fast and so tight.

Degners @ Suzuka

Degners for sure.

This makes me feel so much better. Whenever I've tackled Suzuka in a video game this has always to an arse-tightening moment, usually followed by some flavour of mistake.
And here I was thinking it was my fault

[sesku]

Sepang - double right turn 7 -8 and turn 14 before back straight.
Bahrain - the hairpin.
Suzuka - The spoon.

[eronrules]

no one mentioned Monaco T1 ??? odd. thats a corner that you don't really know what speed to approach and where to make exit, specially you'll have arse tightening moments if another car is hounding you or better still beside you. either you make it or take the side road to live another day.


regarding the OP, i think i ommitted some of the 'S' sections like suzuka S's or COTA S's cause you can lift to avoid going off circuit and live another day by losing some.

but most corners on the list are blind entry, high/med speed and one shot corners meaning if u miss, you'll end up off track or on the barrier, like Canada T4 or last corner with the wall of champions.

also a case in point is the Curva parabolica, as you can't really lift off there, you'll have to commit. same with T8 in istanbul park and pouhon but as i say, it has concrete life insurance

as Spielberg or RBR ring as it's called is scheduled to come back, i'll also like to mention T1 and T8 (though i believe they've concrete satnitized T1 as well )

[Jackmancer]

Turn 7 and 8 at the Sepang Circuit.

I remember some year like 2001, all the drivers took turn 7 and 8 as two seperate corners, but the spectators and commentators saw that two drivers took them as one corner; one steering movement, one-time braking and a constant flow through it: Michael Schumacher and Frentzen.

I don't remember a corner ever making such a difference, so I think it's a fair contribution to this thread.

[BrawnGeePee]

I'll also mention some f1 drivers that made struggles:
- Istanbul Park's Turn 8, also known as Curva "Diabolica"(Montoya)
- Albert Park's Turn11-12 chicane, some have lost vital momentum there(usually in qualifying)
- Spa Francorchamps' New Bus-stop chicane, challenging to outbrake especially when wet(Vettel, Barrichello)
- Sepang Circuit's Turns13-14, that section before back straight is really decieving(Sergio Perez)
- Singapore Marina Bay's Singapore sling chicane, very bumpy the car becomes unpredictable(Koba, Fisichella)
- Autódromo José Carlos Pace's Juncao corner, many drivers(Kimi, Timo, even Ayrton) have underestimate this final turn

[MrAerodynamicist]

In iRacing, I find Spa's bus stop to be down right horrible to get even remotely correct.

[Richard T]

India turn 5-6-7. The chicane where many drivers run off every year

[Jackmancer]

In iRacing, I find Spa's bus stop to be down right horrible to get even remotely correct.

From my own experience, get a mark to memorize the braking point, and another mark to steer in don't go full throttle through last knick.

[Skinnyguy]

as Spielberg or RBR ring as it's called is scheduled to come back, i'll also like to mention T1 and T8 (though i believe they've concrete satnitized T1 as well )

T1 has had all that runoff for years, it certainly was there last time in 2003.

That circuit is full of hard corners.

Turn 3 downhill heavy braking plus offcamber corner must be a pain, first you gotta nail the braking point without locking the fronts downhill and then you have to avoid understeering wide thanks to the road´s camber.
The last 2 corners are also a pain, high speed but very sharp, sort of Degner style, you have to be mega precise. Luckily here there´s time to get back on track if you go wide in the penultimum corner, unlike in Degners.

[eronrules]

T1 has had all that runoff for years, it certainly was there last time in 2003.

That circuit is full of hard corners.

Turn 3 downhill heavy braking plus offcamber corner must be a pain, first you gotta nail the braking point without locking the fronts downhill and then you have to avoid understeering wide thanks to the road´s camber.
The last 2 corners are also a pain, high speed but very sharp, sort of Degner style, you have to be mega precise. Luckily here there´s time to get back on track if you go wide in the penultimum corner, unlike in Degners.

that's right, turn 3 is a bitch, i never get it right in sims no matter how hard i try (break early/break late doesn't matter). it's amazing to think that it's a tilke drome and has so many unique corners in such short lap

talk about difficult corners and pit lanes, the korea intl. circuit probably has the most difficult one interms of pit entry, T17-18 (long right hand with left kink)

the valencia street circuit one was also crazy T24-25

[DutchQuicksilver]

Degner corners indeed. I remember the qualifying session back in 2009, first year of new regulations. I think there were three or four cars which went off at those corners.

Edited by DutchQuicksilver, 07 August 2013 - 11:38.

[HaydenFan]

This makes me feel so much better. Whenever I've tackled Suzuka in a video game this has always to an arse-tightening moment, usually followed by some flavour of mistake.
And here I was thinking it was my fault

Suzuka - The spoon.

See I never found Degner to be difficult in video games. It's all about staying to the left side of the track until the moment you need to turn in. The second part is a bit tough, but that isn't any more troublesome than the first part if you get the first part correct.

I agreeing with sesku, the spoon is probably the most difficult corner. Off-camber, braking points.

[SpaMaster]

I take it as this is not necessarily a question on the most challenging corners.

I have to give a mention of the sequence of corners that come in the last sector at Sepang (forget the corner numbers). That is a difficult corner to get it right.

Amen to Degner and Spoon corners at Suzuka as well.

[ryan86]

no one mentioned Monaco T1 ??? odd. thats a corner that you don't really know what speed to approach and where to make exit, specially you'll have arse tightening moments if another car is hounding you or better still beside you. either you make it or take the side road to live another day.

If this was 2002 I'd be inclined to agree with you, but since they took the inside barrier away, not so much.

[Boxerevo]

that's right, turn 3 is a bitch, i never get it right in sims no matter how hard i try (break early/break late doesn't matter). it's amazing to think that it's a tilke drome and has so many unique corners in such short lap

talk about difficult corners and pit lanes, the korea intl. circuit probably has the most difficult one interms of pit entry, T17-18 (long right hand with left kink)

the valencia street circuit one was also crazy T24-25

Korea has a very strange flow... if exist a"flow" there.

You are always compromising in the last half of the track.

But for some reason i like to run there,feels challenge to nail the lap.

Edited by Boxerevo, 07 August 2013 - 16:10.

[Sardukar]

In iRacing, I find Spa's bus stop to be down right horrible to get even remotely correct.

I feel your pain i struggle with this corner even in the skippy.

[AustinF1]

Austin's essess look very tricky on TV, enter at the wrong line and it goes pear shaped quickly.

They're not easy. Kind of a combo of Silverstone & Suzuka, with the way they tighten up at T5 & 6. I wouldn't put them at the top of this list, but they're pretty demanding. I esp enjoy watching people try to take T6 as a single apex.

But my bet? Turn 3 to 10 at Circuit of the Americas. The S'es. Damn hard, and you have to hold back the throttle to get through that in a somewhat unnatural way. You just want to go too fast through there, only to outrace yourself as the track keeps narrowing down.

10, the downhill, off-camber left-hand kink, can be pretty interesting, esp in other categories besides F1. You turn in under hard acceleration & later than it seems would be possible, so it's difficult. 9 is is slow with constant throttle modulation and you have to get it just right to have a good run at 10. One day someone's going to get 10 wrong. With its higher speed and downhill runoff, it might not be pretty.

The 3 most difficult turns at COTA to get exactly right, imho, are T1, T15, and T19.

Edited by AustinF1, 07 August 2013 - 21:54.

[superdelphinus]

What's the one at Monaco at the top of the hill - the left hander? Not technically difficult but flipping heck it must take some balls to thread it through those barriers at that speed.

[zippythecat]

I'd go with all of Suzuka from Degner 1 to the exit of Spoon. Every corner in that sequence is fiendish. It's easily the most difficult track for me in GT5. The 'Ring is child's play in comparison.

[AustinF1]

I'd go with all of Suzuka from Degner 1 to the exit of Spoon. Every corner in that sequence is fiendish. It's easily the most difficult track for me in GT5. The 'Ring is child's play in comparison.

+1.

[Brother Fox]

Makes you realise how sweet Suzuka is huh?

[MikeV1987]

I'd say Suzuka is easily one of the fiercest tracks around. But nailing turn 7 to carry enough speed through dunlop without going off wide or losing too much speed is quite hard, especially since you come into turn 7 after a sequence of S corners.

- 50 sec.

Edited by MikeV1987, 08 August 2013 - 14:12.

[Kingshark]

Turn 3 Austin
Degner Suzuka
Pouhon Spa
Turn 12 Shanghai
Turn 17 Abu Dhabi
Turn 14 Malaysia

[sopa]

Made me interested in knowing if there is any kind of statistic, in which corners have drivers been making most mistakes - mistake as crashing out or at least going off the track, losing valuable time.

Of course the wall of champions in Canada is famous for taking a few drivers out. In T8 in Turkey drivers have been going off. What else? Singapore Sling?

Of course not counting wet, when there are lots of mistakes, incl. smaller ones.

[Bleu]

What's the one at Monaco at the top of the hill - the left hander? Not technically difficult but flipping heck it must take some balls to thread it through those barriers at that speed.

It's called Massenet. The place where Alonso had his crash in 2010 practice and forced him to the back of the grid.

[Tenmantaylor]

I'd say Suzuka is easily one of the fiercest tracks around. But nailing turn 7 to carry enough speed through dunlop without going off wide or losing too much speed is quite hard, especially since you come into turn 7 after a sequence of S corners.

I think Spoon is harder and more crucial as you carry all the speed down the straight. The faster you come out of 7 the harder Degna 1 is.