91 replies to this topic

[discover23]

It was really disappointing when Rubens (almost looked intentional/ extremely carelessly) bumped him off the race track in one of the final races in 2003 that effectively ruined his championship chance, he was damn close to the 2003 title.

For which Barichello after the race said it was an stupid penalty imposed on Montoya that day.

People go on about Mclaren, but he won quite a few races there, some of them were extreemly dominant, like the one at silverstone i think in 2006 where he got an unfair drive through or some penalty cant quite remember what for and he drove out of his skin and beat everyone for the win.
When he had the bit between his teeth he was faster than anyone else. That Monaco win was incredible too.
Bloody Ron Dennis ruined another career like with so many others
Thing with Montoya is he needed an arm round him and people telling him they loved him. I think he would have been mega at Ferrari in 2007

Montoya drove very well and matched Kimi in the second half of 2005. That was the real Montoya who had recovered from the injury and was starting to adapt to the Mclaren.. - races like Imola, Canada, Hungary, Spa (JPM out-qualified Kimi there on his favorite track - everyone in the mclaren garage was stunned when Montoya pulled that lap out of a hat, including Kimi), Brazil, In Germany he started last and finished 2nd to Alonso, were all great races by Montoya, not to mention his two other wins at Monza and Silvestone where Kimi had problems.

Edited by discover23, 15 August 2013 - 22:14.

[elusivef1]

not really.. Montoya owned Shumi in 02 when the Michellin tires lasted on his Williams..In 03, Montoya drove better than Shumi but Shumi had 100% reliability in all the races whereas Montoya suffered two engine failures from the race lead.

Montoya's Williams was a championship winning car to be frank. Just Montoya has a latin temperament and wanted to think on the day and not the future.

My impression is that in wheel-to-wheel battles JPM enjoyed a 60-40 advantage, but mentally he was owned by MS who focused on the title as the larger picture, whereas Montoya suffered from aim fixation only on him. In the end, JPM was not a consistent enough challenger and only marginally better than Ralf, although he could have ended up with a little bit of luck as one time WDC in 2003.

You have montoya thinking correct. Fixated big time. Remember when MS was trying to overtake Monty on the outside and Monty just brakes extremely late and ran out of track pulling MS to side and no where to go. Monty just did not want to get overtaken by MS.

Monty was exciting however to watch and I must admit, I do miss him. Would have loved to see Monty owning Hamilton and Alonso!!

[wj_gibson]

Wasn't JPM considered a dead cert for a future with Ferrari (post-Schumacher) at one time?

[Boing 2]

Schumacher beat him physically, mentally, and on race track when Montoya clearly had a fast competitive car.

Montoya was one of the few drivers to really get under Schumacher's skin and youtube is simply littered with videos showing him passing Schumacher left right and centre.

Not sure what your agenda is here but this is all factually wrong.

[Kucki]

What if JPM would have stayed at Mclaren for 2007.

[Group B]

Montoya was one of the few drivers to really get under Schumacher's skin and youtube is simply littered with videos showing him passing Schumacher left right and centre.

Not sure what your agenda is here but this is all factually wrong.

Really? I suggest you look at the scoreboard. JPM undoubtedly pulled off some great passes and flamboyant moves, but the bottom line is that while Montoya was carrying on his one man circus Michael was collecting points. He certainly got Michael's attention, but he never had his number.

[carbonfibre]

Montoya sure made some good moves on Michael that's for sure. He did it when Michael just wasn't expecting it so kudos to him.

But in the end he was no match to Schumacher, i remember him moaning in a press conference after Imola where he expected that Schumacher was going to let him pass him on the outside while Michael had the racing line. Michael didn't and put him on the curbs and over. And ofcourse we have Monza where Michael didn't budge for Montoya in the chicane where it was very close.

Montoya had his days but in the end he was just too out of control and emotional.

[Boing 2]

Really? I suggest you look at the scoreboard. JPM undoubtedly pulled off some great passes and flamboyant moves, but the bottom line is that while Montoya was carrying on his one man circus Michael was collecting points. He certainly got Michael's attention, but he never had his number.

In all their years together Montoya probably had 1 season with a good enough package to challenge Schumacher and he very nearly took the title but for bad reliability and some horrendous politics.

To compare form through stats is OK up to a point but it simply doesn't work when one party has such a sizeable situational advantage over the other.

I'm also curious why a supposed racing fan would label aggressive passing as 'a one man circus', isn't this why we all tune in? why the attempt to denigrate something that's at the very heart of the sport we all follow?

[Group B]

In all their years together Montoya probably had 1 season with a good enough package to challenge Schumacher and he very nearly took the title but for bad reliability and some horrendous politics.

To compare form through stats is OK up to a point but it simply doesn't work when one party has such a sizeable situational advantage over the other.

I'm also curious why a supposed racing fan would label aggressive passing as 'a one man circus', isn't this why we all tune in? why the attempt to denigrate something that's at the very heart of the sport we all follow?

Grosjean, Perez, Maldonado .... They all partake in 'aggressive passing' but none are hero worshipped as representing the very heart of our sport. It's a question of judgement and moderation both on and off track, and JPM wasn't always great at getting that judgement right; he laboured under the misapprehension that he he coud barge his way past everything from Schumacher to cameramen, which ultimately didn't end well. As I said earlier, I think he added a great deal to the sport and wish he'd stayed, but I'm not deceiving myself into rewriting his place in history as some kind of F1 caped crusader; in reality he tried to do everything his way, which while colourful, was not always helpful to himself or anyone else.

[ixnay]

The last great character along with Kimi in F1.

[holiday]

The last great character along with Kimi in F1.

Kimi is a non-character but so consequential at it that finally people started to see some merit in it, though for no obvious reason. It was also the same with Senna.

[Minisenna]

Someone told me that Montoya after winning Indy 500 in 2000 said "Bring me Schumacher", is that true?

Best Regards!!

[Andrew Hope]

Someone told me that Montoya after winning Indy 500 in 2000 said "Bring me Schumacher", is that true?

Best Regards!!

No, what he really said was "Bring me some burgers". Bit of a thick accent.

[scheivlak]

I thnk the relationship between Montoya and Dennis was deteriorating way before the 2006 USGP and I would have been surprised if it had held together long enough to continue through the 2007 season.

One interesting thing is that Jacques Villeneuve quit/got the boot not much later. Was there an opportunity at BMW Sauber if JPM had waited just a little bit longer? Just a speculation, but it could have been pretty interesting. After he quit Williams Montoya -like Ralf- always said that the BMW engine was the best part of his car. And he could have been very eager to prove that he still got what it takes.

There is a possibility of course in that case that BMW Sauber had already decided that Kubica was the future and Montoya might be a pain in the ass for them as well. 

[kamikaze1]

Martin Brundle once said during commentary at a race "I'll be speechless if this guy never wins a world championship".   Brundle's opinion is good enough for me.  Think it was at Monza in 2001.  I used to be able to remember exactly which race.  If anyone can remember please tell me

 

 

 

One thing that still makes me laugh, the Canada drivers press conference at that start of the weekend:

 

Montoya: Villeneuve, you braketest me again I'll put you in the wall.  

 

Villeneuve:  You do that and I'll put you in the trees 

 

Montoya: "You have already killed someone this year"

 

 

Classic stuff! 

 

http://news.bbc.co.u...one/1381527.stm

Edited by kamikaze1, 16 September 2013 - 21:37.

[kamikaze1]

In all their years together Montoya probably had 1 season with a good enough package to challenge Schumacher and he very nearly took the title but for bad reliability and some horrendous politics.

To compare form through stats is OK up to a point but it simply doesn't work when one party has such a sizeable situational advantage over the other.

I'm also curious why a supposed racing fan would label aggressive passing as 'a one man circus', isn't this why we all tune in? why the attempt to denigrate something that's at the very heart of the sport we all follow?

 

He was f**ked over at Indianapolis that year, put him right out of the running for Suzuka.  The stewards gave him a drive through for an accident he didn't cause.  I think that really killed his F1 feeling.  

[OfficeLinebacker]

I'd love nothing more than to see JPM back in F1 but he'd never be able to control himself with the tyres, he's a flat-out 'maximum attack' kind of driver.

You'd be surprised.  In NASCAR he will let someone by if he is faster.

 

It's interesting, in NASCAR like F1 different tracks have different tyre degradation patterns.  It's true usually Montoya drives at the capability of the car (and at times a bit beyond it).  His restarts and early-in-the-stint pace are usually when he's at his best, which is indicative of one who is taking everything out of the tyres.

 

However there are times when his speeds are higher (in relation to the other cars at the moment, not compared to earlier in the stint) later in the stint, especially when he's in clean air.  Many times his times are at the top of the board in terms of fastest car that lap, often later in stints, not just when the tyres are new.

 

Racing over the course of an entire, 400 or 500 mile race is a very interesting, subtle thing and while I wouldn't say he's necessarily mastered it, Montoya definitely gets it.

[Staycool]

I still remember the 2006 australian gp, when he was on the limit hit the kerb so hard that the mclaren engine went into safe mode and cut off the engine

[Raelene]

Kamikazee1

One thing that still makes me laugh, the Canada drivers press conference at that start of the weekend:

 

Montoya: Villeneuve, you braketest me again I'll put you in the wall.  

 

Villeneuve:  You do that and I'll put you in the trees 

 

Montoya: "You have already killed someone this year"

 

 

Classic stuff! 

 

 

 

that wasn't classic stuff at all by Montoya considering the Marshall's death             

Edited by Raelene, 17 September 2013 - 02:59.

[discover23]

One of Montoya's best laps in F1 .. Beating none other than Kimi at Spa



He also had a pole here with Williams in his rookie year if I am not mistaken.

[Boxerevo]

People forget he was only a dubious decision or two away from a WDC..

Truth.

[hoohar]

If he used his brain he could have won a bunch of races and possibly world titles for brawn or redbull post 2006, because they were bother interested in him but instead he gave up , ran off to nascar and spent the next 7 years going arounf in circles fighting for 20th place, only to win a single race. Now he got kicked out of there. A waste of a huge talent.

[Gorma]

If he used his brain he could have won a bunch of races and possibly world titles for brawn or redbull post 2006, because they were bother interested in him but instead he gave up , ran off to nascar and spent the next 7 years going arounf in circles fighting for 20th place, only to win a single race. Now he got kicked out of there. A waste of a huge talent.

I think he won three times: twice in Sprint Cup and once in Nationwide.

[Andrew Hope]

If he used his brain he could have won a bunch of races and possibly world titles for brawn or redbull post 2006, because they were bother interested in him but instead he gave up , ran off to nascar and spent the next 7 years going arounf in circles fighting for 20th place, only to win a single race. Now he got kicked out of there. A waste of a huge talent.

He's made 60 million dollars in NASCAR. I've made a tenner under $3200 in my life so far. I wish I could be as stupid as Juan Montoya.

[crbassassin]

Martin Brundle once said during commentary at a race "I'll be speechless if this guy never wins a world championship".   Brundle's opinion is good enough for me.  Think it was at Monza in 2001.  I used to be able to remember exactly which race.  If anyone can remember please tell me

 

 

 

One thing that still makes me laugh, the Canada drivers press conference at that start of the weekend:

 

Montoya: Villeneuve, you braketest me again I'll put you in the wall.  

 

Villeneuve:  You do that and I'll put you in the trees 

 

Montoya: "You have already killed someone this year"

 

 

Classic stuff! 

 

http://news.bbc.co.u...one/1381527.stm

 

now that's some funny stuff

[Tron]

Couldn't stand Montoya. He was more concerned putting a scene on the camera and yelling at Schumacher than actually racing.

[P123]

Couldn't stand Montoya. He was more concerned putting a scene on the camera and yelling at Schumacher than actually racing.

 

I lol'd.

[Oho]

now that's some funny stuff

No kidding, I thought it was in very bad taste, circumstances considered.

[Tract1on]

If he used his brain he could have won a bunch of races and possibly world titles for brawn or redbull post 2006, because they were bother interested in him but instead he gave up , ran off to nascar and spent the next 7 years going arounf in circles fighting for 20th place, only to win a single race. Now he got kicked out of there. A waste of a huge talent.

 

Yes indeed, Montoya was my favourite driver, so fast and exciting to watch.

I cant believe the way Mclaren fcuked his career with all the politics and endless BS

 

 

One of Montoya's best laps in F1 .. Beating none other than Kimi at Spa



He also had a pole here with Williams in his rookie year if I am not mistaken.

 

Gave me goosebumps watching that.

 

I bet Frank called JPM about 2014.....

I would have been over the moon, ecstatic to see him back in F1 in 2014, im sure he could still have done it

Edited by Tract1on, 17 September 2013 - 11:37.

[OfficeLinebacker]

One of Montoya's best laps in F1 .. Beating none other than Kimi at Spa



He also had a pole here with Williams in his rookie year if I am not mistaken.

 You can tell Kimi is like WTF, you can even hear him saying "show me <unintelligible>."

 

Yes indeed, Montoya was my favourite driver, so fast and exciting to watch.

I cant believe the way Mclaren fcuked his career with all the politics and endless BS

 

 

 

Gave me goosebumps watching that.

 

I bet Frank called JPM about 2014.....

I would have been over the moon, ecstatic to see him back in F1 in 2014, im sure he could still have done it

Montoya said over and over he would only race in a car capable of winning.  I honestly think he would have gone to DTM or ALMS or even Grand-Am if that was the only series where he had a legit, race-and-championship winning ride.

 

He would probably only race for Red Bull, Ferrari, or Mercedes in F1 and none of them was going to come calling.

 

I also doubt he'd be willing to relocate his family to Europe, even if they offered him #1 status in Red Bull.

[discover23]

He would probably only race for Red Bull, Ferrari, or Mercedes in F1 and none of them was going to come calling.

 

I also doubt he'd be willing to relocate his family to Europe, even if they offered him #1 status in Red Bull.

 

Rumors are that he was offered a DTM ride with BMW and a call from an F1 team, maybe Lotus.

[Force Ten]

Montoya: "You have already killed someone this year"

 

 

Classic stuff! 

Well.  That is not so much classic, rather it shows that Montoya was bit of a d***.

[Nobody]

With all that talent, people knocking on his door, he walked...

That's Montoya

[surbjits]

You can't survive in F1 solely based on talent; which he had buckets of.

[JimiKart]

JPM is just another in a long line of drivers who found out the hard way that Mr. Intergity is the most deceptive garden variety weasel ever to grace the F1 pit lane. Seems like a lot of butt hurt around here, is it something to do with everyone's favorite driver having his ass kicked by JPM... probably.

[sennafan24]

Truth.

You could pin-point other instances, but the thing that always grabs me is that JPM would have tied MS on points in 2003, if his engine would have not given up in the final race. Schumi would have won the title anyway due to having more wins, but JPM was a lot closer than some would think in 2003.

 

DC was ruffled that JPM was in talks with Red Bull, I would have liked JPM to go there. The most naturally gifted driver of the last 10 years, other than Lewis and maybe Kimi, if he had been a more consistent qualifier (which in 2004 he was starting to be) he could have become a lot more than he was.

[taran]

Some people seem more eager to thrash Montoya than answer the topic .

 

2006 wasn't great for Montoya but then Kimi wasn't doing so well either. Which means Montoya's reputation wouldn't be too tarnished. Let's not forget he was winning multiple races the year before.

His relationship with McLaren was broken however. In fact, it never really gelled. When asked by the press about Montoya's fiery personality, Dennis claimed it wouldn't be a problem as he had managed to work with Senna but Senna was not Latin in the sense of emotional. He was Mr. Ice behind the wheel, always working the angles.

 

Montoya was very different and together with the tennis accident, they never clicked (although for the life of me I can't understand why that would upset Dennis to that extent. It was an accident and drivers are crazy like that. Villeneuve is admired for doing much sillier things). Dennis had already decided to jettison either Raikkonen or Montoya when he signed Alonso and neither driver was happy or willing to stay at McLaren beyond 2006. 

 

So where does Montoya go? Ferrari was not an option. They wanted to team Schumacher with a fast driver and Montoya would never have been accepted by Schumacher, hence Raikkonen.

BMW, Williams, Red Bull etc. are all out for various reasons ranging from burnt bridges to uncompetitive cars.

 

The most likely team would have been Toyota. They really liked Montoya for his success with their engine in America and Montoya would fit with their global marketing. And it would have reunited the Schumacher/Montoya team which had brought numerous wins to Williams. Established form always sells well in Japan.

 

Would Montoya have won races in a Toyota? I think he would have. I never was that impressed by Trulli or Schumacher jr. and Montoya had previous when he dragged an uncompetitive Toyota engine to wins in CART. As a previous Toyota winner, his words would have been more likely to be accepted by Toyota suits.

 

Would that have kept Toyota in F1 beyond 2009 and would Montoya have stayed with the team? That's too much in the alternative future IMO.

[scheivlak]

2006 wasn't great for Montoya but then Kimi wasn't doing so well either.

But in 2006 the difference became larger and larger almost from race to race - largely I think BTW because Montoya was fed up with the team and he didn't like the fact that the car was not as competitive as in 2005. Meanwhile Kimi did all he could do in e.g. Bahrain, Australia, the N'ring, Monaco, Britain and Canada. Kimi kept on performing, fighting for podiums and wins. Montoya didn't.
 

Montoya was very different and together with the tennis accident, they never clicked (although for the life of me I can't understand why that would upset Dennis to that extent. It was an accident and drivers are crazy like that. Villeneuve is admired for doing much sillier things).

Easy answer: we're talking about Ron Dennis. And about the responsibility for a budget at least ten times larger than those in the early eighties.
 

So where does Montoya go? Ferrari was not an option. They wanted to team Schumacher with a fast driver and Montoya would never have been accepted by Schumacher, hence Raikkonen.

As we now more or less know, Raikkonen wasn't accepted by Schumacher either - and we also know now the result of that....

 

The most likely team would have been Toyota. They really liked Montoya for his success with their engine in America and Montoya would fit with their global marketing. And it would have reunited the Schumacher/Montoya team which had brought numerous wins to Williams. Established form always sells well in Japan.
 
Would Montoya have won races in a Toyota? I think he would have. I never was that impressed by Trulli or Schumacher jr. and Montoya had previous when he dragged an uncompetitive Toyota engine to wins in CART. As a previous Toyota winner, his words would have been more likely to be accepted by Toyota suits.

Well, I think Toyota surely would want him as well - but it was Montoya's own decision to burn all his bridges and go for Nascar.

Edited by scheivlak, 17 September 2013 - 22:24.

[LuckyStrike1]

Some people seem more eager to thrash Montoya than answer the topic .

 

2006 wasn't great for Montoya but then Kimi wasn't doing so well either. Which means Montoya's reputation wouldn't be too tarnished. Let's not forget he was winning multiple races the year before.

His relationship with McLaren was broken however. In fact, it never really gelled. When asked by the press about Montoya's fiery personality, Dennis claimed it wouldn't be a problem as he had managed to work with Senna but Senna was not Latin in the sense of emotional. He was Mr. Ice behind the wheel, always working the angles.

 

Montoya was very different and together with the tennis accident, they never clicked (although for the life of me I can't understand why that would upset Dennis to that extent. It was an accident and drivers are crazy like that. Villeneuve is admired for doing much sillier things). Dennis had already decided to jettison either Raikkonen or Montoya when he signed Alonso and neither driver was happy or willing to stay at McLaren beyond 2006. 

 

So where does Montoya go? Ferrari was not an option. They wanted to team Schumacher with a fast driver and Montoya would never have been accepted by Schumacher, hence Raikkonen.

BMW, Williams, Red Bull etc. are all out for various reasons ranging from burnt bridges to uncompetitive cars.

 

The most likely team would have been Toyota. They really liked Montoya for his success with their engine in America and Montoya would fit with their global marketing. And it would have reunited the Schumacher/Montoya team which had brought numerous wins to Williams. Established form always sells well in Japan.

 

Would Montoya have won races in a Toyota? I think he would have. I never was that impressed by Trulli or Schumacher jr. and Montoya had previous when he dragged an uncompetitive Toyota engine to wins in CART. As a previous Toyota winner, his words would have been more likely to be accepted by Toyota suits.

 

Would that have kept Toyota in F1 beyond 2009 and would Montoya have stayed with the team? That's too much in the alternative future IMO.

 

 

I seem to remember that at the time there were rumours and speculation about Red Bull being interested and that was a serious option. There were also rumours about fractions within Ferrari pushing hard to get him. But Montoyas exit from McLaren was so quick and sudden that it never really led to any substanstial information about other F1 options for him. He just packed up and left after T1 at Indianapolis and announced his multi year deal with Ganassi. 

[Nobody]

Dennis didn't jettison anyone, Kimi signed for Ferrari mid 2005, and JPM had made up his mind.

[noikeee]

JPM is just another in a long line of drivers who found out the hard way that Mr. Intergity is the most deceptive garden variety weasel ever to grace the F1 pit lane. Seems like a lot of butt hurt around here, is it something to do with everyone's favorite driver having his ass kicked by JPM... probably.

 

I hadn't realized this forum was packed with Ralf Schumacher fans.

 

Kimi is a non-character but so consequential at it that finally people started to see some merit in it, though for no obvious reason. It was also the same with Senna.

 

That's the first time ever I've seen anyone comparing Kimi's character with Senna, and for a good reason because those are 2 completely polar opposites. Senna worked his ass off to engage people. He wanted to inspire (and help) people, and felt he was special and entitled to do just that. He gazed people in the eyes and talked mysthical, cryptical sh*t about how God guided him on track and the visions he had of driving through a tunnel under God's hands and all that stuff.

 

Kimi doesn't want to engage people and is greatly annoyed by the fact he seems to receive an awful lot of attention. He just wants to have some fun driving fast cars and if that earns him an awful lot of money to then splash on partying, sweet. If he ever found himself driving in a bright tunnel under the hand of God he'd probably wonder what the **** did someone lace his booze with.

[andrewf1]

 If he ever found himself driving in a bright tunnel under the hand of God he'd probably wonder what the **** did someone lace his booze with.