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The Mercs at Oulton


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#1 Sharman

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 09:26

I am trying to establish which chassis were used when the W125 and the W154 were "demonstrated" at Oulton in 1958. For demonstrated read hurled around by two top line drivers, Brooks and Collins.

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#2 William Hunt

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 15:03

Tony Brooks and Peter Collins did a run in a W125 / W154 at Oulton Park? Woaw, I would love to see a picture of them in those cars.

#3 Sharman

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 15:12

Tony Brooks and Peter Collins did a run in a W125 / W154 at Oulton Park? Woaw, I would love to see a picture of them in those cars.

Have emailed you.
JSF

#4 Alan Cox

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 09:05

Tony Brooks and Peter Collins did a run in a W125 / W154 at Oulton Park? Woaw, I would love to see a picture of them in those cars.

...and you can still purchase a recording of the event, which includes interviews with Collins and Brooks conducted by Laurence Pomeroy and sounds of the cars lapping the circuit.
http://www.dukevideo...ifties-2-CD-Set
http://www.amazon.co...p;condition=new

#5 Sharman

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 09:50

...and you can still purchase a recording of the event, which includes interviews with Collins and Brooks conducted by Laurence Pomeroy and sounds of the cars lapping the circuit.
http://www.dukevideo...ifties-2-CD-Set
http://www.amazon.co...p;condition=new


It wasn't a W163 though Alan!

#6 Roger Clark

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 10:27

Yves Kaltenbach's extensive Automobile Historique article on the W154 says that the factory retained W154/11 (189441) and /12 (189442). He says: "Wagen 12 reste à la usine, et entretenue, apparent à l'occasion de diverses manifestations dans les années 50 et 60".

I feel sure that Doug Nye was written in Autosport about the history and fate of the W125s but I can't find it.

#7 Alan Cox

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 13:20

It wasn't a W163 though Alan!

I never said it was.

#8 Sharman

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 13:55

I never said it was.


Your link said it was Alan I wasn't suggesting you said it.

#9 Sharman

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 13:59

Yves Kaltenbach's extensive Automobile Historique article on the W154 says that the factory retained W154/11 (189441) and /12 (189442). He says: "Wagen 12 reste à la usine, et entretenue, apparent à l'occasion de diverses manifestations dans les années 50 et 60".

I feel sure that Doug Nye was written in Autosport about the history and fate of the W125s but I can't find it.


I've asked the factory Roger, and have had a reply which promises research and clarification.

#10 David McKinney

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 14:35

I believe the W154 was 166369, but I'm not sure what its more familiar number (1,2,3 etc) was

#11 Roger Clark

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 15:02

I believe the W154 was 166369, but I'm not sure what its more familiar number (1,2,3 etc) was

THat's not a number quoted by Kaltenbach. His are in the range 189431 - 189445.

#12 David McKinney

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 16:47

Sorry - I think I meant the W125 :blush:

#13 jag38arw

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 11:41

I attended that meeting at Oulton at the end of June 58, It was the Richard Seaman memorial race meeting which was advertised quite extensively at the Empire Trophy meeting in April, Mike Hawthorn and Peter Collins were originally listed as the drivers, but when the day arrived Hawthorn was unable to attend as he was competing in the Monza 500, so Tony Brooks who had just won the Belgium GP the previous weekend stepped in.

The actual Merc demos were in two parts with Collins driving the W125, and Brooks the 3 litre car in demo 1, with each run lasting about 6 or 7 laps, the cars then returned to the pits, and after an interval returned with the drivers having swapped cars and repeated the process, the cars looked and sounded fantastic as Brooks and Collins passed and re-passed each other during the demos.

Then we retired to the paddock to have a close look at cars, Peter Collins was explaining the finer points of the 3 litre car to a group who were standing there and Tony Brooks seemed to be similarly engaged, being in the glorious Cheshire countryside at mid summer, it was difficult to imagine that just 5 weeks later that these same two drivers would be battling for the lead in the German GP, with Peter Collins sadly losing his life, but that was the nature of motor sport at that time.

#14 Sharman

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 13:17

I attended that meeting at Oulton at the end of June 58, It was the Richard Seaman memorial race meeting which was advertised quite extensively at the Empire Trophy meeting in April, Mike Hawthorn and Peter Collins were originally listed as the drivers, but when the day arrived Hawthorn was unable to attend as he was competing in the Monza 500, so Tony Brooks who had just won the Belgium GP the previous weekend stepped in.

The actual Merc demos were in two parts with Collins driving the W125, and Brooks the 3 litre car in demo 1, with each run lasting about 6 or 7 laps, the cars then returned to the pits, and after an interval returned with the drivers having swapped cars and repeated the process, the cars looked and sounded fantastic as Brooks and Collins passed and re-passed each other during the demos.

Then we retired to the paddock to have a close look at cars, Peter Collins was explaining the finer points of the 3 litre car to a group who were standing there and Tony Brooks seemed to be similarly engaged, being in the glorious Cheshire countryside at mid summer, it was difficult to imagine that just 5 weeks later that these same two drivers would be battling for the lead in the German GP, with Peter Collins sadly losing his life, but that was the nature of motor sport at that time.

The week before the cars were displayed in Edwards showroom in Chester, I think Edwards were Jaguar dealers so having the Mercs in the showroom can't have gone down very well with Sir William.

#15 MCS

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 14:32

The week before the cars were displayed in Edwards showroom in Chester, I think Edwards were Jaguar dealers so having the Mercs in the showroom can't have gone down very well with Sir William.


Really? How very strange. I am not questioning your comment. I just wish I had seen Brooks and Collins racing round Oulton!

I remember Colin Crabbe at Oulton in the W125 in the early seventies. Wow.

#16 jag38arw

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 14:33

The week before the cars were displayed in Edwards showroom in Chester, I think Edwards were Jaguar dealers so having the Mercs in the showroom can't have gone down very well with Sir William.


Thats interesting, I hav`nt heard that before, was the James Edwards garage in Northgate St ?, Even though Stirling had won at Aintree in a Merc in 55. there was a great deal of excitement at Oulton that day, with many people saying that this was the first time these legendary cars had been seen on a British track since the heady days of pre-war Donnington.



#17 Sharman

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 15:00

Thats interesting, I hav`nt heard that before, was the James Edwards garage in Northgate St ?, Even though Stirling had won at Aintree in a Merc in 55. there was a great deal of excitement at Oulton that day, with many people saying that this was the first time these legendary cars had been seen on a British track since the heady days of pre-war Donington.


That's right Northgate if memory serves, which I was doing at that time, as an instructor in the Army Emergency Reserve (at Blacon), better known as the Z men.

typo edit

Edited by Sharman, 16 August 2013 - 15:02.


#18 TJJohansen

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Posted 19 August 2013 - 10:42

...and you can still purchase a recording of the event, which includes interviews with Collins and Brooks conducted by Laurence Pomeroy and sounds of the cars lapping the circuit.
http://www.dukevideo...ifties-2-CD-Set
http://www.amazon.co...p;condition=new

If one is mainly interested in the Mercs, and the rest will be taken as a bonus, is this recording of the silver arrows so good that it will be worth it?

T J

#19 raceannouncer2003

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 06:04

This recording will be good.  However, I think the Riverside recording of the Mercs at Oulton Park is better, at least in terms of capturing the car sounds.  Here is another link that shows that one, and other recordings:

 

http://www.oldclassi....uk/records.htm

 

VInce H.



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#20 Sharman

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 15:54

I have just received a reply from Mercedes (AKA Daimler) and the answer is they don't know and have no records of the demonstration at Oulton in 1958. I am sending them a copy of the Motor Sport report from August 1958 which is fairly detailed but has no chassis numbers in it. At least they will have a documented resume of what happened. Collins got down to 1'57.6" and Brooks 1'58" on a damp track.  



#21 jag38arw

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 09:28

I have just received a reply from Mercedes (AKA Daimler) and the answer is they don't know and have no records of the demonstration at Oulton in 1958. I am sending them a copy of the Motor Sport report from August 1958 which is fairly detailed but has no chassis numbers in it. At least they will have a documented resume of what happened. Collins got down to 1'57.6" and Brooks 1'58" on a damp track.  

 I remember Peter Collins saying that he felt he could have broken the lap record with the 3-litre car, with more practice, I`m assuming that the practice times recorded were obtained during the Friday run, as my school was only 15 miles from Oulton. and I seem to remember that it rained  most of that day.



#22 Sharman

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 10:09

No, that was on the Saturday morning, before the demonstration proper, Collins said that the %.6 litre car made the V16 BRM feel like an Austin 7.



#23 jag38arw

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 12:05

No, that was on the Saturday morning, before the demonstration proper, Collins said that the %.6 litre car made the V16 BRM feel like an Austin 7.

Yes, I remember his comments, he claimed that he could spin the wheels on any corner, in any gear in the W125, which is easy to believe when it was seen and heard in action, for there were a couple of occasions when the big car got out of shape rounding Cascades,

There was`nt any widespread coverage of the event in the motoring mags at the time from memory, and I have`nt discovered anything of note on the net, so your Motor Sport account, seems like a real gem, was it a copy you purchased at the time?,


 



#24 TJJohansen

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 12:17

This recording will be good.  However, I think the Riverside recording of the Mercs at Oulton Park is better, at least in terms of capturing the car sounds.  Here is another link that shows that one, and other recordings:

 

http://www.oldclassi....uk/records.htm

 

VInce H.

 

Thanks for the link.

 

Got onto evilBay and found both the Mercedes W125/ W163 as well as the Fortissimo racing LP. Bought both, and they are on their way across the high sea right now. :clap:

 

Need to pour myself a Jack/ Coke and sit back with my headphones on and enjoy once I got the loot safely home.

 

Only wish the sound of the W125 would have been as distinct in rFactor as in real life.

 

T J



#25 Sharman

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 13:25

Not a hard copy, it is on the Motor Sport Digital Archive Collection of 1950s