Additionally, I also think that Alonso and Hamilton's brilliance in extracting the maximum of the car made it seem better than it was compared to the Ferraris.
Edited by sheepgobba, 17 August 2013 - 09:27.
Posted 17 August 2013 - 09:26
Edited by sheepgobba, 17 August 2013 - 09:27.
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Posted 17 August 2013 - 09:34
Posted 17 August 2013 - 09:47
Posted 17 August 2013 - 10:21
I think Frank Williams agrees with you.I was browsing through the autosport awards and noticed that the 2007 and 2008 racing car of the year awards awarded to the MP4-22 and MP4-23. I do agree with that fact that both cars were good in their respective years of competition but I don't believe it was better than the F2007 and F2008 it competed against. Personally I always thought the F2007 and F2008 were better cars than the McLaren in both the seasons, as in both seasons the Ferraris were faster. In regards to the 2008, the F2008 was the better car but the McLaren was more reliable (Valencia, Hungry Engine failures from the top of my head). But I still believe the Ferrari's should been awarded for those two seasons.
Additionally, I also think that Alonso and Hamilton's brilliance in extracting the maximum of the car made it seem better than it was compared to the Ferraris.
Posted 17 August 2013 - 10:28
yea but if Ferrari awarded for 07&08, there would be people insisting it shudve been Mclaren.. But I still believe the Ferrari's should been awarded for those two seasons.
Posted 17 August 2013 - 11:07
Posted 17 August 2013 - 11:13
I was browsing through the autosport awards and noticed that the 2007 and 2008 racing car of the year awards awarded to the MP4-22 and MP4-23. I do agree with that fact that both cars were good in their respective years of competition but I don't believe it was better than the F2007 and F2008 it competed against. Personally I always thought the F2007 and F2008 were better cars than the McLaren in both the seasons, as in both seasons the Ferraris were faster. In regards to the 2008, the F2008 was the better car but the McLaren was more reliable (Valencia, Hungry Engine failures from the top of my head). But I still believe the Ferrari's should been awarded for those two seasons.
Additionally, I also think that Alonso and Hamilton's brilliance in extracting the maximum of the car made it seem better than it was compared to the Ferraris.
Posted 17 August 2013 - 12:47
Posted 17 August 2013 - 13:11
I was always of the believe that Ferrari was the faster for both years. What people seem to forget is that Kimi under performed for the first half of the season and had some quite terrible races yet still won th championship (admittedly with the 'blunders' from McLaren at the end)
I also do not believe that Massa was in the same class as Hamilton, even in 2008. For him to finish close (even with the engine blow up and fuel rig incident)
Posted 17 August 2013 - 13:12
Posted 17 August 2013 - 13:30
Posted 17 August 2013 - 13:31
Edited by SpaMaster, 17 August 2013 - 13:32.
Posted 17 August 2013 - 13:37
Not to mention the help that Massa got from the FIA in Spa 2008.
Posted 17 August 2013 - 13:43
Posted 17 August 2013 - 19:24
Posted 17 August 2013 - 19:25
Spot on, pretty much.The MP4-22 was really only stronger when Ferrari's windtunnel malfunctioned. This was around Monaco-Canada-US when McLaren dominated those races. After they came back to Europe, Ferrari had fixed their wind tunnel and had some remarkable races. (for example Spa, Silverstone, Interlagos). Monza was the only race after that where the McLaren was clearly quicker.
Posted 17 August 2013 - 19:33
Edited by hotstickyslick, 17 August 2013 - 19:45.
Posted 17 August 2013 - 19:57
I think that's about right, one might add that in Hungary McLaren 's advantage was quite big as well (with the Q brawl for pole as a result!) and that Ferrari's advantage in Turkey was at least as obvious.McLaren vs Ferrari in 2007
Australia - Ferrari
Malaysia - equal (don't let the final result fool you, without his amateur driving Massa could have certainly challenged Alonso)
Bahrain - Ferrari
Spain - Ferrari
Monaco - McLaren by a mile.
Canada - McLaren
America - McLaren
France - Ferrari by a mile.
Britain - Ferrari
Germany - draw (Ferrari in the dry, McLaren in the wet)
Hungary - McLaren
Turkey - Ferrari
Italy - McLaren by a mile.
Belgium - Ferrari by a mile.
Japan - McLaren (full wet)
China - draw (McLaren in the wet, Ferrari in the dry)
Brazil - Ferrari by a mile.
Posted 17 August 2013 - 20:06
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Posted 17 August 2013 - 21:22
I don't think the gap between McLaren and Ferrari in the Hungarian GP on race day was that big, because Raikkonen finished only 0.7 seconds behind Hamilton at the end of the race, and even got fastest lap. In Turkey, again Ferrari were better, but Lewis was challenging Kimi for 2nd place up and until his puncture, so again not that dominant.I think that's about right, one might add that in Hungary McLaren 's advantage was quite big as well (with the Q brawl for pole as a result!) and that Ferrari's advantage in Turkey was at least as obvious.
Sounds about right.Overall one might say that there wasn't a superior car seasonwise, it's just that Ferrari tended to be superior quite often on the more aero-depending circuits (fast corners) and McLaren to be superior on the circuits - or in condtions - where mechanical grip is more important.
Posted 17 August 2013 - 21:22
McLaren in Monaco were no more dominant than Ferrari were in, say, Brazil.At Monaco 2007 the Mclaren was ridiculously dominant, both drivers lapped the whole field bar Massa in P3 and he was over a minute down the road.
Posted 17 August 2013 - 21:28
Posted 17 August 2013 - 21:34
Yep. The F2007 had incredible aero efficiency, not to mention how it could keep its tyres from overheating.McLaren in Monaco were no more dominant than Ferrari were in, say, Brazil.
Posted 17 August 2013 - 21:58
The awards are voted on by the readers of the magazine.I am not surprised that a British magazine thought that a British car was the best.
Posted 17 August 2013 - 22:01
Posted 17 August 2013 - 23:14
But would that not under-mine the performance of their British driver (Hamilton). Does Lewis' 2008 championship not look better if we assume that Ferrari had the best car, while it looks rather mediocre when you assume that McLaren had the best car?I am not surprised that a British magazine thought that a British car was the best.
Posted 18 August 2013 - 03:07
Alonso himself stated McL had the better car 2007. They did have the damn blueprints for the Ferrari, after all.
Posted 18 August 2013 - 03:35
The awards are voted on by the readers of the magazine.
Edited by helioseism, 18 August 2013 - 03:36.
Posted 18 August 2013 - 03:50
The awards are voted on by the readers of the magazine.
Posted 18 August 2013 - 11:51
Posted 18 August 2013 - 15:30
So we have a debate on which car is actually better and whether the awards result is right, based on the 07 and 08 winners being McLarens. Which car is actually better is totally irrelevant and the winner is decided entirely on how many votes each car gets from the readers. It's a popularity contest, if you think different then you know your opinion is not the popular one. Any car or driver could be totally dominant, but if they don't have the fan base to vote for them, they will never win.
And it's not just voted on by idiot fanboys either, otherwise McNish and Franchitti would never have won British driver awards.
Posted 18 August 2013 - 16:04
Posted 18 August 2013 - 17:00
Edited by Blackmore, 18 August 2013 - 17:02.
Posted 18 August 2013 - 17:40
Posted 18 August 2013 - 19:14
That's bs.- People who have no alliance will say the McLaren was the car to have in 2007 and 2008, because it was.
Edited by Kingshark, 18 August 2013 - 19:19.
Posted 18 August 2013 - 19:28
Bullshit.- People who have no alliance will say the McLaren was the car to have in 2007 and 2008, because it was.
Posted 18 August 2013 - 19:45
Posted 18 August 2013 - 19:56
Alonso did not drive the Ferrari, therefore his opinion was nothing but guesswork.Alonso said the Mclaren was the best car and it seemed that way to me.
Edited by Kingshark, 18 August 2013 - 19:58.
Posted 18 August 2013 - 19:57
That's bs.
In 2007 Ferrari had the best car in the first four races, then McLaren was only seriously faster when Ferrai had windtunnel problems (Monaco, USA, Canada). Once Ferrari got their act together they were dominating McLaren throughout the majority of the rest of the season apart from Monza.
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Posted 18 August 2013 - 20:06
But anyone who actually watched the 2007 F1 season carefully, will tell you a different answer.
Posted 18 August 2013 - 20:37
Posted 18 August 2013 - 21:03
Old poll, not nessecary a reflection upon the truth. I showed an old thread back in January 2004 where Autosport members voted for the best car of 2003, and Williams won ahead of Ferrari. You wouldn't agree with that, would you, so why should that old topic be any different?
Posted 18 August 2013 - 21:07
Alonso did not drive the Ferrari, therefore his opinion was nothing but guesswork.
Anyone who blindly looks at the standings and sees "McLaren 218, Ferrari 204" would guess that McLaren had the best car that year. But anyone who actually watched the 2007 F1 season carefully, will tell you a different answer.
Posted 18 August 2013 - 21:35
Posted 18 August 2013 - 23:20
You keep bringing up Alonso's quote in an old interview where he believed that McLaren had the fastest car. Since when is Alonso's opinion end all be all? Did Alonso not say that the F2012 was on par with Force India? Your argument is invalid.I watched it and I say the Mclaren was faster and Alonso was competing in the season and I'm sure he watched it too and he said it was faster as well.
Posted 19 August 2013 - 09:08