112 replies to this topic

[kimster89]

According to Peter Windsor there some sort of swap on the table too..could we see Alonso back to Enstone once again?

Edit: added actual tweet

@PeterDWindsor: Not sure that the ALO-Montezemolo relationship improved during August. Kimi now lined up as a swap, with VET going red in 2015

Edited by Gilles4Ever, 19 August 2013 - 11:15.

[Antonov]

lol.

Problem child always has to fall back on his parents after causing a mess in other people's households. It's hillarious.

[F1ultimate]

I don't think it will be good for Alonso's legacy to return to Lotus again.

[Owen]

Weirdest silly season ever.

[Thomas99]

Why would he go to the poorer team with a weaker technical lineup? Ferrari have Lotuses key strengths, being Allison.

[icewest07]

funny thing is, if true Alonso would be going to the team Kimi would be leaving again (for the 3rd time) !

[MikeV1987]

I think he'll take an early retirement before going back to Entsone.

[Shiroo]

Why would he go to the poorer team with a weaker technical lineup? Ferrari have Lotuses key strengths, being Allison.

Hell no. Enstone has clever guys over there. Andhe was technical director, he wasn't the one that brought the ideas up, he was rather choosing the idea that he was fond of. And giving the cash to that department

[bourbon]

Nonsense. Since when does Ferrari do swaps? If the rumor was they were going to pay Alonso not to drive I might buy it, but swap? Ferrari? nah.

[maverick69]

I bet all at Enstone have got everything crossed that it does happen...... mainly because of the healthy wad of Santander cash that Fred will bring with him.......

[Jejking]

Allison is regarded as one of F1s brightest budget-minds, Lotus has had a lot of success with him onboard. I think it's going to be a big gamble for Alonso anyway, regardless of what he does. Lotus will have to respond to their loss of Allison, while Ferrari has had no big history with well-executed leading innovations in changing times. So if he stays it means Ferrari will have to focus on 14 completely.

I can't see Raikkonen returning to Maranello actually, the team isn't a sure thing to rely on since The Dream Team split up and Raikkonen needs a competitive seat. As long as LdM is over there, he won't come back I suspect. 2014: Alonso @ Ferrari, Raikkonen @ Lotus. 2015: big change.

Edited by Jejking, 19 August 2013 - 11:31.

[Mauseri]

Nonsense. Since when does Ferrari do swaps? If the rumor was they were going to pay Alonso not to drive I might buy it, but swap? Ferrari? nah.

Why would Ferrari pay Alonso out? Montezemolo too proud? If Alonso runs away from Kimi, Ferrari doesn't need to pay him anything. Or would they pay him to not join another team?

[F.M.]

Swap is likely, but with Massa.

[Lights]

I don't think it matters too much for Alonso. Whatever team he is in, it always seems to be a bad decision and he's the one making the team look reasonably competitive since 2008. If he stays with Ferrari you'll see that they will always be one step behind Red Bull. Lotus seems the slightly better package right now. If he moves to Lotus I suspect they'll fall back and Ferrari return on form.

[Seanspeed]

Would be a huge boost for Lotus and a downgrade for Ferrari. A mutual swap seems unlikely.

I don't think it matters too much for Alonso. Whatever team he is in, it always seems to be a bad decision and he's the one making the team look reasonably competitive since 2008. If he stays with Ferrari you'll see that they will always be one step behind Red Bull. Lotus seems the slightly better package right now. If he moves to Lotus I suspect they'll fall back and Ferrari return on form.

So your reasoning is that Alonso comes with a bad luck charm or something?

C'mon now man.

Edited by Seanspeed, 19 August 2013 - 11:42.

[F.M.]

funny thing is, if true Alonso would be going to the team Kimi would be leaving again (for the 3rd time) !

Edited by F.M., 19 August 2013 - 11:43.

[Jovanotti]

I bet Windsor tweeted that just for shits and giggles, as everybody has anyway lost every bit of common sense at this point. Awesome silly season

Edited by Jovanotti, 19 August 2013 - 11:45.

[Lights]

So your reasoning is that Alonso comes with a bad luck charm or something?

C'mon now man.

Some drivers are luckier with the performance of their teams. Alonso is relatively unlucky in this sense.

[Trust]

Would be a huge boost for Lotus and a downgrade for Ferrari. A mutual swap seems unlikely.

How would you know that? What if Kimi dominates Massa and Grosjean destroys Alonso? In this case I would wait the end of that season.

[fullthrottle]

Can't believe people will take this seriously... I think we have too much fun already

[mardmarium]

Please, I really need someone to tell me how Lotus is going to pay Alonso salary...Lotus has a competitive car this year, if they have the money as well...then maybe Kimi shouldn´t leave the team

[Seanspeed]

Some drivers are luckier with the performance of their teams. Alonso is relatively unlucky in this sense.

He's been unlucky sometimes, lucky other times.

Are you really that superstitious?

Besides, Ferrari was not better before he arrived. Neither was McLaren.

Edited by Seanspeed, 19 August 2013 - 11:53.

[kimster89]

Well i think clear nbr. 1 status and peace in his own house is definitely the most important thing for Alonso. And he could get that only in Lotus atm..we can see the peace at ferrari is gone already and if Kimi arrives there, his nbr. 1 status could be in jeopardy too....

Edited by kimster89, 19 August 2013 - 11:56.

[Seanspeed]

How would you know that? What if Kimi dominates Massa and Grosjean destroys Alonso? In this case I would wait the end of that season.

I cant know that, but its unlikely that Ferrari would consider the guy they got rid of because he wasn't performing to expectations to be an upgrade to the guy the guy who is almost unanimously considered to be one of, if not the best in the sport right now.

I'm sure some of you will convince yourselves that's the case, though...

Edited by Seanspeed, 19 August 2013 - 11:57.

[Trust]

I cant know that, but its unlikely that Ferrari would consider the guy they got rid of because he wasn't performing to expectations to be an upgrade to the guy the guy who is almost unanimously considered to be one of, if not the best in the sport right now.

I'm sure some of you will convince yourselves that's the case, though...

What if Ferrari realised it was their mistake that they didn't utilise his full potential and Alonso isn't what they were expecting to get? Unlikely, but if move happens that's the way it's going to be, whether you like it or not.

[Taxi]

We are jumping into conclusions: The swap must be between Massa and Kimi.

[Seanspeed]

What if Ferrari realised it was their mistake that they didn't utilise his full potential and Alonso isn't what they were expecting to get? Unlikely, but if move happens that's the way it's going to be, whether you like it or not.

I'm not going to get hung up on outlandish, unlikely scenarios.

If the move happens, I imagine it will be because of a *massive* falling out between Alonso and Ferrari, not because they think Kimi would be doing better.

We are jumping into conclusions: The swap must be between Massa and Kimi.

Assuming Alonso stays, that would be pretty incredible, I've gotta admit.

Fingers crossed for that!

Edited by Seanspeed, 19 August 2013 - 12:02.

[Trust]

I'm not going to get hung up on outlandish, unlikely scenarios.

If the move happens, I imagine it will be because of a *massive* falling out between Alonso and Ferrari, not because they think Kimi would be doing better.


Assuming Alonso stays, that would be pretty incredible, I've gotta admit.

Fingers crossed for that!

Well of course you want to believe what suits your agenda, in Kimi's case for you it couldn't be that he had a rift with Luca, it must be that he was underperforming. Whatever...

[Seanspeed]

Well of course you want to believe what suits your agenda, in Kimi's case for you it couldn't be that he had a rift with Luca, it must be that he was underperforming. Whatever...

I don't have an agenda.

[2ms]

Alonso up to his old tricks. Doesn't want to drive against Raikkonen the same way he didn't want to drive against Hamilton. If there will be a "massive falling out" at Ferrari it'll obviously be because Alonso deliberately created one -- the same "exit strategy" he used on McLaren.

Edited by 2ms, 19 August 2013 - 12:17.

[Music Lover]

Some drivers are luckier with the performance of their teams. Alonso is relatively unlucky in this sense.

Quite the opposite!
Got 2 titles with Renault almost directly after starting driving F1 and that with a team that SUDDENLY was producing a fast car. And when he left the Renault was nowhere.
The McLaren was a contender.
Same with Ferrari. where he was a contender two years.

[Lights]

He's been unlucky sometimes, lucky other times.

Are you really that superstitious?

Besides, Ferrari was not better before he arrived. Neither was McLaren.

Not much to do with superstition at all. I count 2009 as an anomaly for Ferrari and McLaren because of the 2008 title fight, rule changes and KERS development. I'm just saying that sometimes luck is definitely involved. Vettel moving to Red Bull exactly when they became competitive after struggling in the midfield for 4 years. Kimi coming back out of retirement(!) with Renault returning to top form after 5 mediocre years. Lewis moving to Mercedes on exactly the right moment when they looked stuck in the sub-top for 3 successive years. These drivers had no part in this performance improvement yet reap the awards. My point is that Alonso never had this. At least not to this extent.

[Lights]

Quite the opposite!
Got 2 titles with Renault almost directly after starting driving F1 and that with a team that SUDDENLY was producing a fast car. And when he left the Renault was nowhere.
The McLaren was a contender.
Same with Ferrari. where he was a contender two years.

Not really. Where were you in 2001-2004? He spent a year in a backmarker team and then worked 2(3) years with Renault before they became a title contender. Nothing 'sudden' about that, unlike with my other examples I mentioned in my post above.

Edited by Lights, 19 August 2013 - 12:19.

[SUPRAF1]

It doesn't explicitly state that Alonso is being swapped. Could be Massa

[revlec]

Not much to do with superstition at all. I count 2009 as an anomaly for Ferrari and McLaren because of the 2008 title fight, rule changes and KERS development. I'm just saying that sometimes luck is definitely involved. Vettel moving to Red Bull exactly when they became competitive after struggling in the midfield for 4 years. Kimi coming back out of retirement(!) with Renault returning to top form after 5 mediocre years. Lewis moving to Mercedes on exactly the right moment when they looked stuck in the sub-top for 3 successive years. These drivers had no part in this performance improvement yet reap the awards. My point is that Alonso never had this. At least not to this extent.

Of course other drivers are lucky, while Alonso develops the car.
Were you calling Lewis lucky(or muppet) when his deal with Mercedes was announced?

I bet if he Alonso goes in RB and doesn't win the WDC, you will still call him unlucky.

Edited by revlec, 19 August 2013 - 12:26.

[Lights]

Of course other drivers are lucky, while Alonso develops the car.
Were you calling Lewis lucky(or muppet) when his deal with Mercedes was announced?

I bet if he Alonso goes in RB and doesn't win the WDC, you will still call him unlucky.

I really just see some bold claims about me that don't have much relevance with my post.

[Afterburner]

Luca's old 'two roosters in the hen-house' comment is suddenly coming to mind...

[Seanspeed]

Not much to do with superstition at all. I count 2009 as an anomaly for Ferrari and McLaren because of the 2008 title fight, rule changes and KERS development. I'm just saying that sometimes luck is definitely involved. Vettel moving to Red Bull exactly when they became competitive after struggling in the midfield for 4 years. Kimi coming back out of retirement(!) with Renault returning to top form after 5 mediocre years. Lewis moving to Mercedes on exactly the right moment when they looked stuck in the sub-top for 3 successive years. These drivers had no part in this performance improvement yet reap the awards. My point is that Alonso never had this. At least not to this extent.

Funny thing about luck is that its not very predictable.

You can be unlucky for a time and then get lucky again. Nobody has any innate amount of natural luck or anything.

I really wouldn't call Alonso that unlucky, either. Maybe others have been more fortunate, but he's hardly driven many bad cars in his time.

Edited by Seanspeed, 19 August 2013 - 12:46.

[eronrules]

let me add a little conspiracy theory of my own here


you know how gerard lopez is always adamant that lotus future is secured and how he's waiting to unveil the big sponsor that we were supposed to get at the beginning of 2013 ....

you know all those 'RED' paint scheme on the lotus E21??? in the side pods and the winglet??? it was supposed to be for 'HoneyBadger' or something

you know what color the logo of 'Santander' is???

just food for thought.

[Music Lover]

Not really. Where were you in 2001-2004? He spent a year in a backmarker team and then worked 2(3) years with Renault before they became a title contender. Nothing 'sudden' about that, unlike with my other examples I mentioned in my post above.

Think you missed the word "almost" in the sentence.
Please list other WDC's that just spent a few years in F1 before getting two back-to-back titles!

[speng]

Very good

[Vesuvius]

Now this would be interesting turn out.

[Atreiu]

Weirdest silly season ever.

Possibly because it has been the most twitter influenced as well. Suddenly, all sorts of opinions have become news and nobody knows what's what.

It has been fun simply to sit back and watch things unfold. Thanks twitter.
=D

[speng]

Possibly because it has been the most twitter influenced as well. Suddenly, all sorts of opinions have become news and nobody knows what's what.

It has been fun simply to sit back and watch things unfold. Thanks twitter.
=D

[Lights]

Think you missed the word "almost" in the sentence.
Please list other WDC's that just spent a few years in F1 before getting two back-to-back titles!

I didn't miss anything in your sentence, "Got 2 titles with Renault almost directly after starting driving F1 and that with a team that SUDDENLY was producing a fast car" is just pure nonsense. Four years is not "almost directly" and seeing Renault steadily improving throughout 2001-2004, their performance in 2005 was not 'SUDDENLY' at all. And you're completely missing the point that during this improvement, Alonso was part of the team, unlike the examples I mentioned in my earlier post.

[BillBald]

I bet all at Enstone have got everything crossed that it does happen...... mainly because of the healthy wad of Santander cash that Fred will bring with him.......

Is that certain?

Presumably Santander's sponsorship deal is with Ferrari. They may not be able to sack Alonso, but if he chooses to leave, does that break the deal?

And as others have pointed out, the Spanish economy is not doing so well. If Santander make a new deal with Lotus, there might not be so much cash on offer.

[DaddyCool]

All I'm sayin is hats off to Boullier if he manages a Kimi-Alonso lineup for '14.

[revlec]

I didn't miss anything in your sentence, "Got 2 titles with Renault almost directly after starting driving F1 and that with a team that SUDDENLY was producing a fast car" is just pure nonsense. Four years is not "almost directly" and seeing Renault steadily improving throughout 2001-2004, their performance in 2005 was not 'SUDDENLY' at all. And you're completely missing the point that during this improvement, Alonso was part of the team, unlike the examples I mentioned in my earlier post.

McLaren performances(2007) was attributed to Alonso and his settings.
Mercedes 2013 progress is attributed to Schumacher and his 3 years development work.
RedBull is a fast car thanks to Newey and Coulthard long development work.
Ferrari was fast in 2007 and 2008 because of Schumacher and Kimi should thank him for his WDC.
..
So in conclusion, Vettel and Hamilton(and others) can only drive fast and know nothing about car settings and development. It's not this the common "myth"?

With Alonso it's always him if he wins and the car to blame if he loses. It's getting very old now.

[Fontainebleau]

Is that certain?

Presumably Santander's sponsorship deal is with Ferrari. They may not be able to sack Alonso, but if he chooses to leave, does that break the deal?

And as others have pointed out, the Spanish economy is not doing so well. If Santander make a new deal with Lotus, there might not be so much cash on offer.

You are absolutely correct, Santander's sponsorship deal is with Ferrari; but accepting that fact does not go well with defending the idea that Santander are in F1 just to serve to Alonso's purposes by manipulating whichever team he drives for, so people prefer to overlook that fact in exactly the same way they overlooked Santander staying with McLaren and not switching to Renault in 2008.

Edited by Fontainebleau, 19 August 2013 - 14:03.

[F.M.]

Please, I really need someone to tell me how Lotus is going to pay Alonso salary...Lotus has a competitive car this year, if they have the money as well...then maybe Kimi shouldn´t leave the team

Santander pays his salary.