133 replies to this topic

[chumma]

Yes.....i know what you're thinking. Seems as though everyone is driving for Ferrari next year.
 

Dimi PAPADOPOULOS ‏@f1enigma24m

Woken up and you dont have a scenario from the rumor mill to think about? Kimi to McL - Button to Ferrari http://bit.ly/13HJ4mX 

 

[anbeck]

Yes.....i know what you're thinking. Seems as though everyone is driving for Ferrari next year.
 

Dimi PAPADOPOULOS ‏@f1enigma24m

Woken up and you dont have a scenario from the rumor mill to think about? Kimi to McL - Button to Ferrari http://bit.ly/13HJ4mX 

 

 

I told you weeks ago that no silly season that wants to deserve the adjective "silly" can do without Jenson Button being caught between two stools!

[2ms]

Looks like maybe Kimi's been evaluating further how much he really wants to have Ferrari engine next season.

Edited by 2ms, 22 August 2013 - 07:05.

[SenorSjon]

I don't see Button as a guy who is on many teams shortlist. He is not that impressive to me and I still think he lucked into his WDC, which he tried to lose any which way possible.

 

McLaren as a whole is a bit of a dark horse now. Not even close for podium positions, while they had an excellent car last year. After they signed Perez, Perez didn't exactly turn the world on fire with his driving for Sauber.

[2ms]

Button beat Hamilton and Hamilton's a damn good driver.  Outscored him across 3 years.  It's hard to argue that someone was lucky when you're talking 3 years

[Gilles4Ever]

No further, this is not Button vs Hamilton, Discuss Button's chances of going to Ferrari and Kimi to McLaren and nothing else.

[P123]

This is a great silly season, but as with Red Bull going for the solid no.2 driver for their second seat I suspect Kimi will stay with Lotus, JB will stay with McLaren, Alonso will stay with Ferrari..... which just leaves Massa and whether Ferrari will again give him another second/ third/ fourth chance.  It'll all end up a bit bland.  Although I'm sure JB would relish driving a Ferrari up against Alonso.

Edited by P123, 22 August 2013 - 07:31.

[artista]

Yes.....i know what you're thinking. Seems as though everyone is driving for Ferrari next year.

Dimi PAPADOPOULOS ‏@f1enigma24m
Woken up and you dont have a scenario from the rumor mill to think about? Kimi to McL - Button to Ferrari http://bit.ly/13HJ4mX

It's true Autosport Magazine (print edition) wrote a couple of months ago that it was not 100% sure Button was going to continue in McLaren next season (or something like that, I'm talking by memory).
Anyway, I would take this new rumour with a pinch of salt at the moment, because the author of it is Carlos Miquel. For those who don't know him, Miquel is one of the Spanish journos who where telling last year Räikkönen had crashed on Alonso on purpose because Lotus wanted to help Vettel to win the championship.

In short, he has some tendency to tell stories "full of imagination", not that I would mind seeing Räikkönen in McLaren again, though...

[LookButDontStare]

would be great to have Kimi back in a McLaren but I don't see  BUT/ALO/RAI moving at all.Hulk will replace Massa  

[TT6]

I thought Button is contractually bound to drive for McLaren. Highly unlikely that he would be released for Ferrari... and if McLaren would like to release him I would be very suspicious if I were Ferrari excecutive considering hiriing him.

[Owen]

Can't see Button moving, he's too content and can't see Kimi wanting back to McLaren either.

[grandmastashi]

Honestly I could see this playing out. When a work colleague and I were shooting the breeze about F1 earlier in the season I said I felt Button would be a good fit for Ferrari in kind of the mould Webber would've fulfilled had he gone there. He's strong enough to provide a challenge to Alonso, but not enough that he might come in and rock Fernando's boat. 

 

Besides, when it comes to drive negotiations Jenson can be just as ruthless as others... remember his Williams on/off stuff from the mid noughties? If he feels Ferrari will provide him with a better package for the final years of his career then he'll leave. He may even be seeing Mclaren's 2014 numbers and thinking it could be another season of struggle before the Honda switch.

 

Just my two cents.   

[teejay]

Ferrari dont want to replace a first grade driver with a second grade one. 

[rmpugh]

Ferrari dont want to replace a first grade driver with a second grade one. 

 

What a bizzare thing for a McLaren fan to say

[F.M.]

2014 is on the verge of becoming the season with the most high-end drivers swaps!

Or, you know, everything stays exactly the same as it is now 

Edited by F.M., 22 August 2013 - 09:09.

[KWSN - DSM]

There is no way that Button ever becomes a Ferrari driver. Unless I am wrong and I have been wrong before.

 

[undersquare]

Jense would be ideal for Ferrari, just as he was ideal for McLaren while Lewis was there.  I'd be interested to see how his pace compares to Nando's, I think it would be close, and he'd fit in socially with his more moderate intensity, as he did alongside Lewis.

 

I could also see JB fancying rounding off his career with a spell at Ferrari, that would make quite a set of teams for him.

 

I don't see McLaren releasing him though.

[KWSN - DSM]

I am not the biggest Button fan in the world, so that is context for the below.

 

I do not see him as a perfect fit at Ferrari, he is crying and whining when things does not goes his way, he is not accepting to be the lessor driver in a team - which is good but will not fly with Alonso, and regardless of how Button fans stack the statistics it was clear to all that Hamilton was the superior driver to Button over their time together at McLaren, so the big teams know that they get a very good second driver, WDC credentials none withstanding Button is not of the top tier in F1 and Ferrari will not take him onboard.

 

 

 

[UPRC]

Ferrari dont want to replace a first grade driver with a second grade one. 

 

You're right, Ferrari would never replace Alonso with a lesser driver.

[F1ultimate]

Button's equity as a top driver has taken a slump this year. Him unsuccessfully filling the role as a lead driver makes him very unattractive for a top team. Failing to score a podium this year will mark the beginning of the end for his career. 

[Fastcake]

No I don't see it. I think Button will be finishing his career with McLaren.

[BillBald]

I don't think Jenson is tied to McLaren. His contract will have a performance clause, and Macca this year will have failed any imaginable performance clause.

 

I don't believe that Jenson's failure to achieve a podium this year will have hurt his chances of going to another team. Team bosses will be well aware that it's all about the car.

 

I think he would be competitive against Alonso. The main question mark is whether the Ferrari would actually be competitive. If the car has good race pace, it really wouldn't matter so much where Jenson qualified, he has a good history of picking up places in the race.

 

I actually think that Jenson's best bet would be Red Bull, as that car always seems to be well-balanced. Against that, it might be unreliable, especially in the first year of the new formula.

[Thomas99]

Button is the lead driver at one of the best teams. If McLaren have the best car next year he is the champion. No way.

[F.M.]

Button is the lead driver at one of the best teams. If McLaren have the best car next year he is the champion. No way.

He's already starting to have quite some trouble with Perez this year

[BillBald]

Button is the lead driver at one of the best teams. If McLaren have the best car next year he is the champion. No way.

 

The problem is that this year McLaren have gone a long way towards proving that they might no longer be one of the best teams. The question is not so much whether they can turn it around, more whether Jenson believes that they can.

[Slackbladder]

Jense would be ideal for Ferrari, just as he was ideal for McLaren while Lewis was there.  I'd be interested to see how his pace compares to Nando's, I think it would be close, and he'd fit in socially with his more moderate intensity, as he did alongside Lewis.

 

I could also see JB fancying rounding off his career with a spell at Ferrari, that would make quite a set of teams for him.

 

I don't see McLaren releasing him though.

I actually agree with this. Jenson is a great 2nd driver. The ability to win race, but not the ability to really be a leader. 

[prty]

Looks like maybe Kimi's been evaluating further how much he really wants to have Ferrari engine next season.

 

 

Or maybe that Kimi is not in the position to go anywhere he wants, like some of his fans believe.

[JaredS]

I can definitely see Button going to Ferrari. Potential reasons why he would move:

1) He's in the final phase of his career, driven for a few teams. It's said that every driver wants to drive for the red team sometime in his career. Jenson has previously indicated that he's always wanted to drive for Ferrari. He even repeated this in 2011 whilst still driving for McLaren.

 

2) McLaren hasn't exactly been performing, not just this year but - for Jenson anyway - previous seasons too. Whilst Lewis was in the hunt for the championship in both 2010 and 2012, Jenson in his best McLaren year - 2011, was still never in the hunt despite finishing a far second in the standings to Seb. Whilst McLaren is still one of the powerhouse teams of F1, it's still not an easy gig for them to find funding relying heavily on sponsorship and synergies with various suppliers. It's a good model and one that has worked for a very long time and no reason to suggest it's suddenly going to disappear, but not quite the luxury of rock solid stability that Ferrari has where you know that short of some major political upheaval, Ferrari will remain in F1 practically forever.

 

3) Jenson came into McLaren to bolster his reputation. It probably came as quite a surprise to Jenson that after winning the title in 2009, he was still not rated very highly (probably the weaker finish in the second half of the season compared to his very strong first). Don't get me wrong, his WDC rocketed his reputation up, but still not up with the very best. I think some in the paddock, including most drivers, knew Rosberg was a very strong driver. But underrated by the media because he was unproven. So Jenson had two options - stay at BrawnGP/Mercedes and potentially get beaten by an underrated young driver entering into the team and have his reputation plummet as he'd have no excuses since he'd be the experienced existing driver beaten by a new entry, or he could go to McLaren into the "lion's den" up against Lewis "in his own team" and where everyone expected him to be thrashed. So doing any better than being thrashed was only going to be a positive, and if he actually managed to be competitive or even beat Lewis, then his reputation could only go higher. This is exactly what happened in 2011. Lucking into a close points finish against Lewis in 2012 helped a bit, though realistically everyone knew he got thrashed in 2012.

 

4) After Lewis left, and with a poor car this year, he's lost some motivation - something he's suffered in some other seasons in his career when he's had a bad car and he's up against a young ambitious team mate who's going something to prove. Jenson is beating Checo but not convincingly, and the more times Checo is strong against him the more Jenson's reputation falls.

 

5) Now, Alonso is rated as one of the very best drivers. If Jenson goes to Ferrari, it's the same thing as 2010 when he went to McLaren - no one is going to expect him to beat Alonso "in his own team". If Jenson manages to stay close, or even beat him, his reputation will rocket and solidify in the history books.

 

6) Ferrari too may not be opposed to taking Jenson in. Jenson is a consistent driver, rarely getting himself in trouble. Unless he gets himself in a setup conundrum like a good part of 2012 season, he's going to do reasonably well in the races. He may not qualify strongly, but he will do what Massa couldn't which is to finish well in most places.

 

7) Jenson is also not a driver to throw him toys out of the pram if he's beaten by his team mate. He would be a great no.2 to Alonso, unless of course he starts out performing him in which case Alonso will IMO self destruct and leave at the end of the season. If Jenson is beaten, he will just keep working hard and trying to find a way to beat Alonso. His politics is also subtle, he will become everyone's best friend within the team and they will genuinely like him. However he will genuinely have to beat Alonso before the team decide to change the default status of Alonso as no. 1.

[Jovanotti]

It is basically the very last chance for Button to get a Ferrari seat. I don't know if he wants that, but if he does, then it could well be a possibility. He would be a very good addition to Alonso for sure.

[grandmastashi]

I can definitely see Button going to Ferrari. Potential reasons why he would move:

1) He's in the final phase of his career, driven for a few teams. It's said that every driver wants to drive for the red team sometime in his career. Jenson has previously indicated that he's always wanted to drive for Ferrari. He even repeated this in 2011 whilst still driving for McLaren.

 

2) McLaren hasn't exactly been performing, not just this year but - for Jenson anyway - previous seasons too. Whilst Lewis was in the hunt for the championship in both 2010 and 2012, Jenson in his best McLaren year - 2011, was still never in the hunt despite finishing a far second in the standings to Seb. Whilst McLaren is still one of the powerhouse teams of F1, it's still not an easy gig for them to find funding relying heavily on sponsorship and synergies with various suppliers. It's a good model and one that has worked for a very long time and no reason to suggest it's suddenly going to disappear, but not quite the luxury of rock solid stability that Ferrari has where you know that short of some major political upheaval, Ferrari will remain in F1 practically forever.

 

3) Jenson came into McLaren to bolster his reputation. It probably came as quite a surprise to Jenson that after winning the title in 2009, he was still not rated very highly (probably the weaker finish in the second half of the season compared to his very strong first). Don't get me wrong, his WDC rocketed his reputation up, but still not up with the very best. I think some in the paddock, including most drivers, knew Rosberg was a very strong driver. But underrated by the media because he was unproven. So Jenson had two options - stay at BrawnGP/Mercedes and potentially get beaten by an underrated young driver entering into the team and have his reputation plummet as he'd have no excuses since he'd be the experienced existing driver beaten by a new entry, or he could go to McLaren into the "lion's den" up against Lewis "in his own team" and where everyone expected him to be thrashed. So doing any better than being thrashed was only going to be a positive, and if he actually managed to be competitive or even beat Lewis, then his reputation could only go higher. This is exactly what happened in 2011. Lucking into a close points finish against Lewis in 2012 helped a bit, though realistically everyone knew he got thrashed in 2012.

 

4) After Lewis left, and with a poor car this year, he's lost some motivation - something he's suffered in some other seasons in his career when he's had a bad car and he's up against a young ambitious team mate who's going something to prove. Jenson is beating Checo but not convincingly, and the more times Checo is strong against him the more Jenson's reputation falls.

 

5) Now, Alonso is rated as one of the very best drivers. If Jenson goes to Ferrari, it's the same thing as 2010 when he went to McLaren - no one is going to expect him to beat Alonso "in his own team". If Jenson manages to stay close, or even beat him, his reputation will rocket and solidify in the history books.

 

6) Ferrari too may not be opposed to taking Jenson in. Jenson is a consistent driver, rarely getting himself in trouble. Unless he gets himself in a setup conundrum like a good part of 2012 season, he's going to do reasonably well in the races. He may not qualify strongly, but he will do what Massa couldn't which is to finish well in most places.

 

7) Jenson is also not a driver to throw him toys out of the pram if he's beaten by his team mate. He would be a great no.2 to Alonso, unless of course he starts out performing him in which case Alonso will IMO self destruct and leave at the end of the season. If Jenson is beaten, he will just keep working hard and trying to find a way to beat Alonso. His politics is also subtle, he will become everyone's best friend within the team and they will genuinely like him. However he will genuinely have to beat Alonso before the team decide to change the default status of Alonso as no. 1.

Well said sir 

[Ross Stonefeld]

When Whitmarsh talked about Kevin Magnussen being in F1 in 2014, one of his quotes stood out to me.

 

McLaren currently has a technical partnership agreement with Force India, but that deal will not be extended in to 2014. That could preclude placing Magnussen at the Silverstone-based team.

One other option could be to get Magnussen a drive at Marussia, which has ties with McLaren.

Whitmarsh said that it was highly unlikely McLaren would run him itself.

"There is a tremendous amount of expectation and pressure on being a McLaren driver," he said. "I know we have had exceptions, but generally we don't have rookies in the car and we have to try to develop drivers for the longer term.

 

My thought at the time was "of course they wouldn't run him as a rookie in 2014, they've already got two drivers. Don't they?"

[PayasYouRace]

I don't think anyone has raced for the classic "Big Four" in F1. i.e. Williams, McLaren, Benetton and Ferrari. It would be nice to see Jenson in a red car just for him to achieve that.

[undersquare]

I don't think Jenson is tied to McLaren. His contract will have a performance clause, and Macca this year will have failed any imaginable performance clause.

 

I don't believe that Jenson's failure to achieve a podium this year will have hurt his chances of going to another team. Team bosses will be well aware that it's all about the car.

 

I think he would be competitive against Alonso. The main question mark is whether the Ferrari would actually be competitive. If the car has good race pace, it really wouldn't matter so much where Jenson qualified, he has a good history of picking up places in the race.

 

I actually think that Jenson's best bet would be Red Bull, as that car always seems to be well-balanced. Against that, it might be unreliable, especially in the first year of the new formula.

Interesting thought about the performance clause for JB.  If it's 'below 5th in the WCC' though, Mac will probably scrape in.

 

JB would love the Red Bull, for sure.  And why haven't RBR announced Ricciardo?  Still, I reckon they will support their young driver programme in the end.

[Tsarwash]

It makes sense. Kimi and Ferrari doesn't make sense. Kimi back to McLaren makes more sense than Kimi to Ferrari.

[mlsnoopy]

The sooner the better. Next is Whitmarsh and we will return to winning ways.

[KWSN - DSM]

I don't think anyone has raced for the classic "Big Four" in F1. i.e. Williams, McLaren, Benetton and Ferrari. It would be nice to see Jenson in a red car just for him to achieve that.

 

What define a 'Classic Big Four'? Benneton as a team have done 16 out of 64 years.

 

[Jejking]

When Whitmarsh talked about Kevin Magnussen being in F1 in 2014, one of his quotes stood out to me.

 

 

 

 

My thought at the time was "of course they wouldn't run him as a rookie in 2014, they've already got two drivers. Don't they?"

 

Makes sense, McLaren doesn't have a (recent) history of tossing out a driver too soon, unless he really gets it wrong like Montoya. McLaren is a very conservative team, but Jenson could leave if he wants to make his dream come true. Perez will stay surely, he's doing reasonably well over there and will get another chance if his sponsorship money flow won't be interrupted.

[Jazza]

What define a 'Classic Big Four'? Benneton as a team have done 16 out of 64 years.

 

In name yes, and if looking at the entire history of the Drivers Championship. But up until the last four years the modern area of F1 has been dominated by four factories; Woking, Grove, Enstone, and Maranello. To possibly end up driving for all four of them is pretty unique. Even the two new big teams (Brackley and Milton Keynes) Jenson has already driven for one of them. It is a pretty amazing career actually, even without a Ferrari drive.  

 

[VesaKaitera]

I have been sure, that KR is moving to Ferrari, for about three weeks or so. If FA is staying at Ferrari, there is no room for Jenson. But is it sure, that FA will stay there? Now most of the pundits are saying, that RB is not confirming the other driver at Spa as originally was planned, because this team is negotiating with Kimi's manager. But this could be only a smokescreen, and the true negotiating were between RB and FA. The team boss and many sponsors might be interested in this, but Horner and especially SV not so much. However like ususally in F1, the money will set the tone. So the pairing SV and FA is not out of the picture, and if so, who will be the other Ferrari driver? FM has had his chances, but he has not been the same quality driver as he was before his accident. JB could replace FM. JB has had his ups and downs, but he is still a former WDC and he is excellent in changing conditions.

[Xeriks]

I don't see why Ferrari would want Button, and I can't see Mclaren letting him go, there is no chance of this happening.

[PayasYouRace]

 

In name yes, and if looking at the entire history of the Drivers Championship. But up until the last four years the modern area of F1 has been dominated by four factories; Woking, Grove, Enstone, and Maranello. To possibly end up driving for all four of them is pretty unique. Even the two new big teams (Brackley and Milton Keynes) Jenson has already driven for one of them. It is a pretty amazing career actually, even without a Ferrari drive.  

 

 

 

Exactly 

[Gilles4Ever]

Posts have been deleted, this is not a bash Button or Jenson vs Lewis thread. Please keep to the topic.

[HeadFirst]

Button is the lead driver at one of the best teams. If McLaren have the best car next year he is the champion. No way.

McLaren had the best car for much of last year, I didn't see him as having championship potential. Jenson is a strong, consistent driver and I think his style would compliment Alonso quite well at Ferrari. I see him fitting in well there and providing numerous points paying finishes, if the car is decent.

[Buttoneer]

When Whitmarsh talked about Kevin Magnussen being in F1 in 2014, one of his quotes stood out to me.

 

 

 

 

My thought at the time was "of course they wouldn't run him as a rookie in 2014, they've already got two drivers. Don't they?"

I imagine that there are performance clauses which kick in.  Since McLaren did not provide a quick car, maybe Button is free to go?

[KWSN - DSM]

I think most top drivers have some sort of performance clauses, I would not be surprised that Button has one. I just can not see Button being a fit at Ferrari, if anywhere he would be dynamite at Red Bull. But I do think he will remain where he is.

 

[HeadFirst]

I think most top drivers have some sort of performance clauses, I would not be surprised that Button has one. I just can not see Button being a fit at Ferrari, if anywhere he would be dynamite at Red Bull. But I do think he will remain where he is.

 

He might be a good fit at Red Bull, but I really think that they will be promoting young Daniel to the "A" Team.

[KWSN - DSM]

He might be a good fit at Red Bull, but I really think that they will be promoting young Daniel to the "A" Team.

 

I would like to say "they have to", but they really do not have to do anything else than what they decide themselves. Personally Daniel have not lived up to my expectations, based on the hype when he arrived. This likely a fault with both me and the media, I can blame it on the junior spec series and driver talent ladders as much as I want, but I really think that the drivers needs longer junior careers before advancing to F1. Button as well as Daniel was thrown into F1, at a time when they should not. I know that it worked out for them, but it did not for a long list of drivers the past 10 years.

 

Button will not ever drive for Ferrari.

 

Button would be a better choise for Red Bull than Kimi and Daniel, but will not happen either.

 

Button have m,ade his bed with McLaren and will sink or swim with them and Honda.

 

Button needs to stop whining.

 

[Fox1]

I imagine that there are performance clauses which kick in.  Since McLaren did not provide a quick car, maybe Button is free to go?

Performance clauses go both ways. I would be willing to bet that there are more than a few eyes at McLaren reassessing the value that JB actually brings to the table. I honestly don't think JB or Martin would survive at Ferrari if the team accumulated 59 WCC points with over half of the F1 season completed.

[rasul]

I imagine that there are performance clauses which kick in.  Since McLaren did not provide a quick car, maybe Button is free to go?

According to Button himself, he doesn't have a contract for 2014 signed yet.

 

"I think I have a contract for next year but I don't think it has a signature on it yet!" Button said. "I really want to be here next year. You might think 'Wow, that's strange after this season', but I think this season has been good for us in a way. I think this will be a much stronger team next year so I want to be here next year. But - as you say - you haven't heard the confirmation of that yet from the team. I think you have to wait for that."

 

Asked about the seats that could be available, Button said Ferrari was the main opportunity for drivers.

 

"I think Red Bull is done. I think the Ferrari seat is a great opportunity for any driver in F1. To get the opportunity to race for a team like Ferrari is very exciting; what they've achieved, the passion within the team, the culture is very interesting, so I think it's a great opportunity and hopefully somebody who deserves it will get the drive."

[Dalton007]

I remember reading that Ferrari were interested in Jenson couple of years ago...? Jenson wouldn't comment. I think he's probably better staying at MAC - they will be good next year...