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The other side of Vettel


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#1 Spoch

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 01:38

Personally, I have never really cared about SV but after watching this tonite, I am beginning to think the kid might be okay. Who else feels the same way after watching the clip below?

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=JGItMTxvbpc


Edited by Spoch, 24 August 2013 - 01:58.


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#2 genespleen

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 01:46

Write in sentences, please.

#3 aditya-now

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 02:05

Personally, I have never really cared about SV but after watching this tonite, I am beginning to think the kid might be okay. Who else feels the same way after watching the clip below?

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=JGItMTxvbpc

 

Personally, I have never cared about SV's self-appreciating humour, but after watching this tonite, I am beginning to think that apart from glimpses of talent in imitating others, he is full of himself and that in a very obtrusive way.


Edited by aditya-now, 24 August 2013 - 02:06.


#4 03011969

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 02:09

Tonight.



#5 Juggles

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 02:46

I really like him off the track. He's one of the most interesting drivers in that sense because his charm and general demeanor out of the car is so at odds with who he becomes when he puts the helmet on.

 

On a slightly separate point, I think when he goes without the championship for a couple of years he will become more liked. Incidents like Malaysia this year and complaining about Raikkonen in Hungary weren't endearing but other, much more popular drivers have behaved poorly too. When you are desperate to see anyone but Vettel win it's easy to confuse a dislike of the man's success with a dislike of the man.



#6 bourbon

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 03:03

He's awesome.  Keep winning, Seb  :up:  



#7 MP422

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 03:12

He wasn't the same personality in the Torro Rosso IMO. That's a big reason why i would enjoy to see him contend without the best Team/car or a WDC team mate.



#8 Disgrace

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 03:23

I'm hopelessly conflicted about Vettel. He comes across a nice guy in all interviews, but his driving on track suggests he is a ruthless competitor who will win at all costs (i.e the cost of our entertainment). Ultimately though, he deserves every championship which he has won thus far.



#9 Afterburner

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 04:07

He's one of the most interesting drivers in that sense because his charm and general demeanor out of the car is so at odds with who he becomes when he puts the helmet on.


Which is exactly the way it should be, in my opinion. On-track behaviour is nothing personal--just the nature of competition. Vettel said something to this effect on the podium in Hungary. Some people see this as two-faced, but I see it as self-control. You can't be at the sharp end without an edge, but that doesn't mean you have to let that edge define you.

#10 Boxerevo

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 05:07

vettel+celebration.jpg?ITEM_ENT_ID=68070



#11 Juggles

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 05:20

Which is exactly the way it should be, in my opinion. On-track behaviour is nothing personal--just the nature of competition. Vettel said something to this effect on the podium in Hungary. Some people see this as two-faced, but I see it as self-control. You can't be at the sharp end without an edge, but that doesn't mean you have to let that edge define you.

 

I don't think on-track behaviour should be disregarded. We should respect drivers who want to win fairly over those who are willing to do anything to win, and the decisions they take on track should weigh into how we see them off track. Massa, for example, didn't call for Grosjean to get a penalty in Hungary and backed him up after the race too. If he had called for a penalty and then said after the race, "well it was just the heat of the moment, I don't think a penalty is correct" it would not have been as impressive.



#12 SR388

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 05:42

Seems like a nice kid. Don't like my Germans talking about why they lost the war though.

#13 apoka

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 05:47

Maybe, it is only me, but when reading the thread title I genuinely thought the "other side" of Vettel would refer to his "dark side" - instead the OP seems to think that having a negative opinion of him is normal (and maybe that's right, but that's probably more down to his success). I don't think he is enough of a "bad guy" for this - he had some moments, but otherwise seems to be very likeable.

 



#14 Peter Perfect

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 05:58

Maybe, it is only me, but when reading the thread title I genuinely thought the "other side" of Vettel would refer to his "dark side" - instead the OP seems to think that having a negative opinion of him is normal (and maybe that's right, but that's probably more down to his success). I don't think he is enough of a "bad guy" for this - he had some moments, but otherwise seems to be very likeable.

:up: yep, every top driver has had "moments" but my own view is that Vettel is a pretty likeable guy. I wasn't aware he was disliked by a majority of fans  :confused:



#15 Briz

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 06:12

Imitating Mansell, Raikkonen and Alonso is a bit of a two edged sword, all three occasions were very funny, but it might be read as showing disrespect. Besides we know he is a big fan of Monty Python and British humour in general, so his own humour is maybe not 100% natural but rather a slightly forced emulation of what he saw. Anyway he has shown to have a sharp mind for finding the right joke in many cases even if he is not as extremely (and randomly) funny like Webber. I like him as a person, I think he has a very straightforward mindset, tries not to let emotions and pride take control of him unlike some of his competitors. He is a good role model I think, worthy ambassador of the sport.



#16 SpaMaster

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 06:50

I have maintained for a long time that Vettel is the most fan-friendly and the most charming F1 driver. He genuinely has time for fans and very light-hearted at that. He is Ecclestone's Dream Champion.



#17 sopa

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 06:56

Raikkonen is Vettel's friend, so there is no disrespect or anything about Vettel imitating him. I think if they are together, they would both have a good laugh about it.



#18 Boing 2

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 08:38

Of the current crop, (Hamilton, Alonso, Vettel, Raikkonen) I think there's a lot of overlap, they are all great drivers who have all behaved like dickheads occasionally (less so with Kimi). None of them come across as fundamentally bad characters though or fundamentally dirty drivers.



#19 RedBaron

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 08:46

I remember this.

 

He should have left the stage on a 'high', he stayed 1 joke too long...



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#20 NotAPineapple

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 10:09

I'm 100% sure that the Kimi impersonation was staged.

 

You can see Steve Rider leading it in. Why would you ask someone whos just won driver of the year "Oh Kimi's back next year, if he was here, what do you think he would say?"



#21 froggy22

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 10:25

Maybe, it is only me, but when reading the thread title I genuinely thought the "other side" of Vettel would refer to his "dark side" - instead the OP seems to think that having a negative opinion of him is normal (and maybe that's right, but that's probably more down to his success). I don't think he is enough of a "bad guy" for this - he had some moments, but otherwise seems to be very likeable.

Agree. Im pretty sure the side of Vettel everybody knew before this season was the likeable/joking side of vettel. It's only really this season i've noticed the ruthless side of him.



#22 bub

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 14:14

Same as most of the drivers imo. Seems like a nice guy but with a bit of arrogance.



#23 Baddoer

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 16:44

No.



#24 gillesthegenius

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 16:48

He's awesome. Keep winning, Seb :up:


+1

#25 robefc

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 16:58

I'm hopelessly conflicted about Vettel. He comes across a nice guy in all interviews, but his driving on track suggests he is a ruthless competitor who will win at all costs (i.e the cost of our entertainment). Ultimately though, he deserves every championship which he has won thus far.


I see it similarly to you but without the conflict.

I've always thought he seems a top bloke, the press conference on Thursday was another example with all the banter about 'practising' when asked whether he was ready for kids.

In the car, however, I feel almost as bitter towards him as Lewis probably does himself! :)

#26 aditya-now

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 17:02

I remember this.

 

He should have left the stage on a 'high', he stayed 1 joke too long...

 

Exactly - obtrusive, as I said. He also shows his index finger just for a tad too long...



#27 Sin

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 17:07

Personally, I have never cared about SV's self-appreciating humour, but after watching this tonite, I am beginning to think that apart from glimpses of talent in imitating others, he is full of himself and that in a very obtrusive way.

 

too bad the new forum design still doesn't let you rate posts as bullshit...

 

Seb is awesome :D



#28 Morbus

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 18:04

Top gear interview. Everything that needs to be said.

 

That said, him impersonating Kimi was THE big mistery known to people only close to him, and now we know :D



#29 1Devil1

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 18:16

too bad the new forum design still doesn't let you rate posts as bullshit...

 

Seb is awesome :D

 

I missed him here - he has a new target after his odyssey with schumacher   ;)



#30 bourbon

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 18:21

Personally, I have never cared about SV's self-appreciating humour, but after watching this tonite, I am beginning to think that apart from glimpses of talent in imitating others, he is full of himself and that in a very obtrusive way.

 

He has no talent in imitating others, it is the microphone!  You give that microphone to any rookie and they could just as easily imitate Kimi and Nigel... :p :lol:

 

I find Seb hilarious.  I remember back in his early F1/F3 days he would struggle over certain words in English with absolute confidence - then laugh as hard at himself as others laughed at him when he discovered the mistake.  That wins me over every time.  In person, he is one of the nicest people you will ever meet - between then and now - you'd never know he'd become a F1 champion.



#31 Clatter

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 20:30

I'm hopelessly conflicted about Vettel. He comes across a nice guy in all interviews, but his driving on track suggests he is a ruthless competitor who will win at all costs (i.e the cost of our entertainment). Ultimately though, he deserves every championship which he has won thus far.

 

If he wasn't a ruthless competitor he wouldn't have reached the level he has, but win at all costs? I don't think he is the sort to deliberately crash into an opponent or run them off the track.



#32 jj2728

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 20:44

If he wasn't a ruthless competitor he wouldn't have reached the level he has, but win at all costs? I don't think he is the sort to deliberately crash into an opponent or run them off the track.

Agreed



#33 MightyMoose

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 21:50

I'm not convinced this is anything other than a "driver's topic", but as we're all enjoying the new forums, I'll give it some time to grow into here, but be warned what's gone so far isn't enough for this to remain open much longer.



#34 Babak

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 22:28

A very accomplished human being; strip all the current F1 drivers of their job and position in F1 and you'll see a mixed bunch of people personality-wise, some better and some, well, meh. And considering his age, he is one of the best of them. I can't put my finger on any particular flaw in his character; he's almost as outstanding as his achievements in motorsport, unlike some others who you'll pass as nothing more than absolute ordinary.

#35 jjcale

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Posted 24 August 2013 - 22:48

With MW going, SV is rapidly joining JB as the driver I most respect away from the track... there is a very sensible head on young shoulders.

 

 

... and lets be honest ..... youngest ever WDC and a 3x WDC could really be a lot more of a douche than he has been from time to time .... lets not forget how FA and LH handled being youngest ever WDC.... they were not exactly endearing ... so cut SV some slack. He has been a pretty decent guy.



#36 Afterburner

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 04:41

I don't think on-track behaviour should be disregarded. We should respect drivers who want to win fairly over those who are willing to do anything to win, and the decisions they take on track should weigh into how we see them off track. Massa, for example, didn't call for Grosjean to get a penalty in Hungary and backed him up after the race too. If he had called for a penalty and then said after the race, "well it was just the heat of the moment, I don't think a penalty is correct" it would not have been as impressive.


You're confusing having an opinion on driving conduct during a race with the action of attempting to manipulate the stewarding prcoess; wrong is wrong regardless of what the drivers think. The stewards obviously know this and are responsible enough to make decisions regardless of how much anyone does or does not complain because Massa's opinion clearly didn't affect their choice to penalise Grosjean. I don't think any more or less of Massa because of what he thought about the incident or Grosjean's driving during the race compared to afterwards--I only care about what he said outside the car, after the race was done.

 

For the record, I do agree that Grosjean's penalty was bogus in light of other incidents during the race, but then I'm not a steward so it honestly doesn't matter.



#37 NotAPineapple

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 09:01

The unpopular truth is that all of the drivers are arrogant, pushy, rude people by nature. Its a required trait to get to the level that they do.

 

Its just that some drivers are able to put on a good front for the cameras and fans mistakenly think that this is part of their real character.

 

BS, the real character of the driver is the arguing, pushing and complaining that you hear on the team radio. As a result I always laugh at the fanboys who lambast a driver whos too pushy or for being arrogant. Fact is, they all are.



#38 HoldenRT

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 09:42

I've always liked Seb and that interview is the perfect example of why.  He's very clever, very open to other cultures, friendly etc.  A good sense of humour and even knows how to hint at the darker or naughtier things but in a way that he can get away with.

 

I've lost respect for him over the years, but I guess that same thing would make others like him.  He's pretty ruthless and you can't trust anything he says when it comes to the actual racing.  All drivers are like this but I guess this sort of thing fuels the haters.  I don't hate him though.  I just don't cheer for him as much these days.  It's just the nature of the beast though.  I don't think drives need to be like Jenson Button either.  There is such a thing as being too nice.  It's a very competitive environment.

 

I think a lot of the hate actually comes from jealousy.  Whether it's because of the car he drives or simply his success.  Envy, jealousy etc.

 

He's won a lot, so of course he's going to be cocky these days.  Of course he will be happy.  He is on top of the world, in terms of F1 as a whole.  And it's not the car.  If it were the car, he'd be winning races on the good days and crashing out or missing points on the bad days.  Even on the bad days, he is still very good.  And this isn't 2004.  Having a good car these days is different, because F1 is like a spec series.  Which means the distance between the top 8 is very small.  Ever since 2009 it has been like this.  It's like a spec series where you have only small margins in order to be better than the others, which means you have to drive perfectly each weekend.  And Vettel does this as much as Alonso, Lewis or anyone else.

 

I don't think he's the most likable these days, as opposed to back in that interview.  But he's winning races, and WDC's so he's doing something right.  It's not a popularity contest.

 

Oh.. one other thing.  He's spoiled by Redbull.  He's entitled and spoiled like a child is.  He is like how Lewis used to be back in his earlier McLaren days.   But this side only comes out, when things aren't going his way.  It pops up now and then.



#39 SpaMaster

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 09:43

The unpopular truth is that all of the drivers are arrogant, pushy, rude people by nature. Its a required trait to get to the level that they do.

 

Its just that some drivers are able to put on a good front for the cameras and fans mistakenly think that this is part of their real character.

 

BS, the real character of the driver is the arguing, pushing and complaining that you hear on the team radio. As a result I always laugh at the fanboys who lambast a driver whos too pushy or for being arrogant. Fact is, they all are.

No, it is not. The truth is some are far nicer than others and some are just very nice, period. Jim Clark, Rafael Nadal, Sachin Tendulkar, Fittipaldi, Graham Hill, Federer, Dravid, Steve Nash, Bill Russell, Jerry West, Sangakkarra, Kim Clijsters, etc. are just a few from the sports that I follow. The driver you like may not be nice, but don't make all others the same because of that.

 

It is an easy excuse to say all the top performers are arrogant and bad. It does not have to be. There is no required connection of the traits.


Edited by SpaMaster, 25 August 2013 - 09:44.


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#40 HoldenRT

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 09:44

BS, the real character of the driver is the arguing, pushing and complaining that you hear on the team radio. As a result I always laugh at the fanboys who lambast a driver whos too pushy or for being arrogant. Fact is, they all are.

 

That's too simplified.  Does a boxer act the same way when he is in the ring, as he does when he is at home relaxing?  It doesn't mean he is being fake when acting differently in different situations.  But during PR interviews on a race weekend, especially when not being allowed to talk about certain things, that's definately fake.  However I don't think Seb in this YT video above was fake.  And I don't believe how he acted on Top Gear or Letterman was fake.



#41 Sin

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 10:00

The unpopular truth is that all of the drivers are arrogant, pushy, rude people by nature. Its a required trait to get to the level that they do.

 

Its just that some drivers are able to put on a good front for the cameras and fans mistakenly think that this is part of their real character.

 

BS, the real character of the driver is the arguing, pushing and complaining that you hear on the team radio. As a result I always laugh at the fanboys who lambast a driver whos too pushy or for being arrogant. Fact is, they all are.

 

ohhhhh... somebody who ate the wisdom with silver spoons...

 

I find it surprising how people feel they can make judgements about people they do not know... Judging they would be different than what you see on tv/twitter

 

your view sounds really disrespectful for me to all top drivers... but what annoys me most is that you write it would be the truth, when it is not more than simply your OPINION.. you are entitled to your opinion, but you shouldn't write it out as the truth unless it is an undeniable fact (like the sun rises every morning)... that's not how intelligent discussion works


Edited by Sin, 25 August 2013 - 10:01.


#42 NotAPineapple

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 10:21

Actually I was talking about drivers specifically. Racing at a top level requires more of a pushy attitude than other sports. Possibly because getting to the top is as policitcal as is it based on raw talent. In tennis, you can get to the top just by being a good tennis player.

 

 

I find it surprising how people feel they can make judgements about people they do not know... Judging they would be different than what you see on tv/twitter

 

your view sounds really disrespectful for me to all top drivers... but what annoys me most is that you write it would be the truth, when it is not more than simply your OPINION.. you are entitled to your opinion, but you shouldn't write it out as the truth unless it is an undeniable fact (like the sun rises every morning)... that's not how intelligent discussion works

 

I actually work with these people. Not F1 but often with Ex F1 drivers. Their attitude is very good for maximising car and setup performance and generally getting **** done. Actually I don't have a problem with arrogance and pushiness in drivers, and actually I think its almost a pre-requisite for a sucessful driver. But I'd never want to hang around any of these people more than I had to.


Edited by NotAPineapple, 25 August 2013 - 10:24.


#43 Sin

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 10:28

well nice for you if you work with them... but you can't judge everyone by just a few examples... that would be like saying all muslims are terrorists...

 

I really don't believe they can be so bad, when you see they have girlfriends, they have friends outside of motorsport... and they do just normal things....



#44 Nonesuch

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 10:30

Whatever else is true, of course Vettel has a more relate-able side than his on-track actions might suggest. No person is a cardboard, and I'm sure none of these drivers are 'bad people', so to say.

 

I've tried, but perhaps I haven't always succeeded, to separate respect for achievements from respect for a person. The first is more dubious, but one can blame the FIA for not clamping down on Red Bull's shenanigans in recent years. I'm sure other teams would also jump on loopholes in the regulations if they were smart enough to figure them out. The second is easier: Vettel is just trying to do the best he can with the car Red Bull gives him - and that's fair enough. At least he's not crashing into other people, lying to the stewards to gain a place, or studying other team's car designs.  ;)

 

His radio-spats seem to me to be hilarious more than anything else. But again, it's not unique to him. There's plenty of people (in sports) who've reached their career highs without encountering much difficulty along the way. That's all fair enough, but it does, as HoldenRT said, sometimes give these people a somewhat child-like personality. Hamilton, to use a recent example, came across as a much different guy in 2008 than he does today.

 

Don't like my Germans talking about why they lost the war though.

 

:up: Especially in terms of the outcome being 'not successful'.



#45 Briz

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 10:41

well nice for you if you work with them... but you can't judge everyone by just a few examples... that would be like saying all muslims are terrorists...

 

I really don't believe they can be so bad, when you see they have girlfriends, they have friends outside of motorsport... and they do just normal things....

 

That's right, a multimillionaire who has a girlfriend and some friends can't possibly be a bad person  :kiss:



#46 Sin

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 10:42

That's right, a multimillionaire who has a girlfriend and some friends can't possibly be a bad person  :kiss:

 

just being a multimillionaire doesn't make you a bad person...

 

infact I think there are much fewer bad persons in the world than people think.... I rather believe in the positive of the people, till they proof to be assholes....

 

ha I love sarcasm, those are the people who think they know everything and aren't willing to discuss



#47 Briz

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 06:27

just being a multimillionaire doesn't make you a bad person...

 

infact I think there are much fewer bad persons in the world than people think.... I rather believe in the positive of the people, till they proof to be assholes....

 

ha I love sarcasm, those are the people who think they know everything and aren't willing to discuss

 

 

You're missing the point completely, I only thought your example about "having girlfriend and friends = good person" was funny when we're talking about such rich and famous people. Did I ever state or imply that being a millionaire makes you a bad person?



#48 ashley313

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 01:05

The unpopular truth is that all of the drivers are arrogant, pushy, rude people by nature. Its a required trait to get to the level that they do.

 

Its just that some drivers are able to put on a good front for the cameras and fans mistakenly think that this is part of their real character.

 

BS, the real character of the driver is the arguing, pushing and complaining that you hear on the team radio. As a result I always laugh at the fanboys who lambast a driver whos too pushy or for being arrogant. Fact is, they all are.

It is quite possible to be BOTH people. One person can be all of those things. In fact, I don't think any "real" person is always one way or the other. Different circumstances bring out different parts of one's personality, and anyone who tries to appear as wholly one way or the other is just fooling his or herself. 



#49 f1motogp

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 02:36

Personally, I have never cared about SV's self-appreciating humour, but after watching this tonite, I am beginning to think that apart from glimpses of talent in imitating others, he is full of himself and that in a very obtrusive way.

 

At least he doesn't call himself a samurai and doesn't have an imaginary sword. :lol:
I,m glad he isn't that full of himself as Alonso is or actually as shallow as him.



#50 Thomas99

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 02:42

He makes Nelson Piquet look likable.