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Ferrari F138: The race car Part III


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#101 RockyRaccoon68

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 12:48

How is that nonsense? I said "arguably" mate. Means it can be argued over. Regardless it's much freaking better than anyone in this thread gave it credit for, just have a look at the replies in the past 3 days...

 

Well because in my opinion it can't be argued over, when all the objective evidence says otherwise.  Second best I will agree on, but not good enough.



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#102 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 12:53

Well because in my opinion it can't be argued over, when all the objective evidence says otherwise.  Second best I will agree on, but not good enough.

 

If it were to rain, most likely Fer would be quicker than Seb, simply due to the car configuration. Which would make it arguably the best car this weekend.

 

Anyhow, way to pick out the one part of my post to deflect the rest of what was said. Most here didn't give Fer a shot and claim the season over.



#103 topical

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 13:07

If it were to rain, most likely Fer would be quicker than Seb, simply due to the car configuration. Which would make it arguably the best car this weekend.

 

Anyhow, way to pick out the one part of my post to deflect the rest of what was said. Most here didn't give Fer a shot and claim the season over.

 

The season is over. Didn't you hear Vettel's engineer tell him to open his lead and see how he did it at will? Ferrari are not in the same league at all and Vettel has just been cruising. It' better than Hungary, but still not good enough to even dream of challenging for the WDC.



#104 vista

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 13:09

It is ridiculous that vettel's car is so fast... There is nothing we can do even if Alonso were on pole. But it is good to see ferrari fast again and alonso's racecraft at the start at the race was fantastic. 



#105 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 13:11

The season is over. Didn't you hear Vettel's engineer tell him to open his lead and see how he did it at will? Ferrari are not in the same league at all and Vettel has just been cruising. It' better than Hungary, but still not good enough to even dream of challenging for the WDC.

 

You're probably right but I disagree. Yes RB is best car but still lots of races left and lots can happen. We shall see. :)



#106 Goron3

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 13:11

Vettel is around 1s a lap faster than us per lap. Hmm.

#107 topical

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 13:20

It is ridiculous that vettel's car is so fast... There is nothing we can do even if Alonso were on pole. But it is good to see ferrari fast again and alonso's racecraft at the start at the race was fantastic. 

 

Yes, this makes the qualifying cock up yesterday less painful. Starting at the front would have made no difference. The RB is way faster and Vettel will take this title 2-3 races before season's end. F1 has basically returned to the Ferrari-Brawn-Schumacher era. It's awful.



#108 kosmos

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 13:26

Very good race by Fernando, flawless, nothing more was possible today, not even starting from pole, RB was way too fast. Kudos to the team, the car was great today, let's hope we can confirm this improvement after Monza. Felipe was decent I guess.



#109 BorkoF2012

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 13:26

Alonso drove a very, very good race. But RB is too fast. Even if he started from pole, the result would still be the same.



#110 Frank

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 13:32

In all fairness, the race pace does seems to improve since last race. We got what we qualified Saturday.....hope the development guys keep on pushing.

#111 BorkoF2012

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 13:37

Monza is the last chance for the victory this year. No chance Red Bul are going to be fast like this there



#112 aray

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 13:43

at this point,it is pointless to expect WDC this season...next race will be our last legitimate chance of winning by pace..



#113 vista

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 13:45

Monza is the last chance for the victory this year. No chance Red Bul are going to be fast like this there

 

Exactly, Monza is last chance of a victory. But with Vettel's top speed it might not be possible at all (overtake on Ham).



#114 Tosh

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 13:46

Shame we can't give a proper car to Alonso. Hopefully the dark ages will come to an end soon.



#115 vista

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 13:47

A little hope: IF the team has found the right development path they can finally put upgrades to the car which works. 



#116 race addicted

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 13:48

Good to get atleast a halfway confirmation of Ferrari going to be quick on Monza, 'cause they weren't far off here, where S2 rewarded Red Bull. They won't have that one on Monza, even if they'll be untouchable in Parabolica.



#117 Mackey

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 13:56

Ferrari should shift development to 2014 ASAP, no way they´re going to recover this ~1s a lap...



#118 Seanspeed

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 13:58

Shame we can't give a proper car to Alonso. Hopefully the dark ages will come to an end soon.

Dark ages? 

 

Man.  I think some of you take for granted how difficult it is to even be a front-runner in this sport. These aren't Ferrari's best years, but its far from as bad as it could be.  McLaren are a good example of how even a top team can fall into midpack territory very easily.  



#119 GVera

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 14:02

If it were to rain, most likely Fer would be quicker than Seb, simply due to the car configuration. Which would make it arguably the best car this weekend.

 

Anyhow, way to pick out the one part of my post to deflect the rest of what was said. Most here didn't give Fer a shot and claim the season over.

 Crucial, I don't follow your reasoning. Seb was quicker in S2 and ALO in the high speed sectors, I beleive the RB had a higher downforce setup and would have been quicker than the Ferrari in rain conditions. 



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#120 Richard T

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 14:09

The team has obviously made good steps during the break. Very good driving from Fernando today, back in the groove!

We should be in for a shot at the win in two weeks at Monza.

#121 RayInTorontoCanada

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 14:13

Where is all the doomer & gloomers complaining about the car and saying Fer doesn't have a chance? The F138 is arguably the best car this weekend. Regardless the point is the team have recovered much of the gap to the leaders in terms of performance.

 

Mate, you are probably one of the very few posters - maybe even the only poster - in the Ferrari thread(s) that focuses in on actual facts and who is worthwhile reading.

 

I value your comments. Keep up the good work.

 

:up:

 

Some of the others are full of shit and, unfortunately, it clutters up this thread with junk.

 

I wrote in another site (yesterday) that the F138s would be very competitive today as there were similar posters saying 'Ferrari 9th and 10th - no hope'. Well, they conveniently forgot Friday and Saturday practice and Q1 and Q2. They also forgot the fact that Alonso and Ferrari made errors which prevented them from showing their true qualifying pace when the track was at it's quickest - at the very end.

 

Anyway, keep up the excellent work and keep making those lucid, even-handed comments. :up:

 

Cheers! :yawnface:



#122 MoP

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 14:13

 Crucial, I don't follow your reasoning. Seb was quicker in S2 and ALO in the high speed sectors, I beleive the RB had a higher downforce setup and would have been quicker than the Ferrari in rain conditions. 

 RB was quicker despite running less wing, which obviously tells u something about the downforce that car creates...



#123 aray

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 14:18

Where is all the doomer & gloomers complaining about the car and saying Fer doesn't have a chance? The F138 is arguably the best car this weekend. Regardless the point is the team have recovered much of the gap to the leaders in terms of performance.

so you think it was the best car...?(when someone say 'arguably' it generally means he thinks so,but agree that there is a point of doubt..)


Edited by aray, 25 August 2013 - 14:19.


#124 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 14:18

 Crucial, I don't follow your reasoning. Seb was quicker in S2 and ALO in the high speed sectors, I beleive the RB had a higher downforce setup and would have been quicker than the Ferrari in rain conditions. 

 

No RB had the low DF setup, where as Ferrari had a package that provided the car more DF at the expense of drag. Newey & Horner both said they were worried about rain coming because the car wouldn't have been as good. RB were using the small skinny Monza spec RW whereas Ferrari were using their usual RW, which would give more DF to the car and would give Ferrari the advantage in the rain.



#125 El_Rápido

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 14:24

Ferrari should shift development to 2014 ASAP, no way they´re going to recover this ~1s a lap...

 

Exactly!

 

Why are they even trying to improve on this piece of junk? There is no point. RB were > ½ second faster today... What is it that Domenicalli fails to see? 

 

Dumping this "dead body" on Fernando and Felipe isn't going to do the trick. In fact the body language from the Spaniard shows that his patience is running out.



#126 vista

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 14:25

No RB had the low DF setup, where as Ferrari had a package that provided the car more DF at the expense of drag. Newey & Horner both said they were worried about rain coming because the car wouldn't have been as good. RB were using the small skinny Monza spec RW whereas Ferrari were using their usual RW, which would give more DF to the car and would give Ferrari the advantage in the rain.

 

Then Red Bull has the best meteorologists as there - apparently - were a high risk of rain. 



#127 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 14:25

so you think it was the best car...?(when someone say 'arguably' it generally means he thinks so,but agree that there is a point of doubt..)

 

I think overall in both conditions, wet & dry the F138 was probably the best car. In the dry, not so much. When thinking about this, one must remember the Ferrari race pace and not only focus on the one lap pace. I firmly believe the F138 would've been the car to beat in the rain, and in mixed conditions but it didn't rain so almost pointless to discuss.

 

My main point was that most ppl here wrote the team off this weekend and shouldn't have. Yes Quali sucked but it was pretty clear to me that the car was pretty damn good from FP1. Some just get too concerned with watching times.

 

 

@ Ray thanks my friend. Much appreciated.



#128 sheepgobba

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 14:27

Fernando's body language to me didn't quite seem too pleased/happy despite the step forward. 



#129 Shiroo

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 14:28

The Ferrari is a good car once again? Or it is just a track.

Still no chance for WDC this year. Vettel was cruising 80% of the race. 



#130 El_Rápido

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 14:31

 

My main point was that most ppl here wrote the team off this weekend and shouldn't have. Yes Quali sucked but it was pretty clear to me that the car was pretty damn good from FP1. Some just get too concerned with watching times.

 

We've all seen this play out: Vettel gets pole, gets a 10 second advantage and any pace advantage Ferrari may have is completely obliterated by lap 10. 

 

Ferrari, as a team, has much to improve, everywhere. Their GPs are lost, 75% of the time, in qualifying. Total opposite of RB.



#131 El_Rápido

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 14:34

Fernando's body language to me didn't quite seem too pleased/happy despite the step forward. 

 

I noticed that too.

 

Them praying for rain to have any chance of winning this GP is sad.



#132 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 14:38

We've all seen this play out: Vettel gets pole, gets a 10 second advantage and any pace advantage Ferrari may have is completely obliterated by lap 10. 

 

Ferrari, as a team, has much to improve, everywhere. Their GPs are lost, 75% of the time, in qualifying. Total opposite of RB.

 

Yeah I know, pretty daunting but I still think it's possible. Depends on the Singapore update package. The F138 will go well at Monza, so it's Singapore, a good circuit for RB, that will be most important. It also doesn't help that Pirelli are going so conservative with the tyres.

 

Ferrari seems to have fixed the issues that plagued the F138 in July, so it's quite possible for them to make a good step forward. Will it be enough? Who knows but there's a lot races left where lots of things such as mechanical problems, wrecks, etc can happen. It is a positive sign the car regained it's form, let's see what happens next. It will be a very hard task to accomoplish, but it is possible. As Stefano says, everything is still to play for. Forza Ferrari!



#133 stillOrange

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 14:38

I thought Fernando looked much more relaxed than normally. I can't remember last time he got so easily into chitchat with Seb and Lewis. Also on a podium he was all smiles.

#134 John Player

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 14:44

Why was Alonso so unhappy? Second was an amazing result...



#135 KnucklesAgain

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 14:46

Why was Alonso so unhappy? Second was an amazing result...

 

Because Vettel was first.



#136 ConsiderAndGo

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 14:48

Why was Alonso so unhappy? Second was an amazing result...

 

Because he was slaughtered today.



#137 RealRacing

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 14:50

We've all seen this play out: Vettel gets pole, gets a 10 second advantage and any pace advantage Ferrari may have is completely obliterated by lap 10. 

 

Ferrari, as a team, has much to improve, everywhere. Their GPs are lost, 75% of the time, in qualifying. Total opposite of RB.

The car was easily top 2 this weekend. Maybe what FA should ask for his birthday is to become a better qualifyer...



#138 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 15:00

The car was easily top 2 this weekend. Maybe what FA should ask for his birthday is to become a better qualifyer...

 

Agreed, top 2 for sure. The last part isn't really fair. We know Fer isn't the best qualifier on the grid but we also know the one lap pace of the F138 isn't it's strong suit. So while yes Fernando could improve his Quali effort, the car is much better in the race versus Quali so ultimately you can't pin it all on him.



#139 fabr68

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 15:05

The car was easily top 2 this weekend. Maybe what FA should ask for his birthday is to become a better qualifyer...

 

Nah.  Alonso must continue to ask Ferrari for a faster car.

 

At this point he needs Massa to finish in front of both Neweys.



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#140 RealRacing

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 15:09

Agreed, top 2 for sure. The last part isn't really fair. We know Fer isn't the best qualifier on the grid but we also know the one lap pace of the F138 isn't it's strong suit. So while yes Fernando could improve his Quali effort, the car is much better in the race versus Quali so ultimately you can't pin it all on him.

I'm not pinning it on him exclusively, although this time he did make a mistake, which is more than the normally unimpressive qualy performance. Do we actually know for sure that the F138 is so bad with one lap pace? Would love to see LH or SV try a qualy lap with the Ferrari. In any case, mine would have been a better retort from LdM to FA's birthday wish... :D



#141 Darkmninya

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 15:10

Guys when massa is getting fired, with him ferraribwill never win wdc and wcc

#142 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 15:11

Nah.  Alonso must continue to ask Ferrari for a faster car.

 

At this point he needs Massa to finish in front of both Neweys.

 I also think it's possible James Allison has been working a bit "behind the scenes" to help get things sorted. It's quite possible for him to contribute positively towards verifying(SIM tools) the the important update package for Singapore.



#143 Nonesuch

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 15:12

Maybe what FA should ask for his birthday is to become a better qualifyer...

 

:rotfl:  Oh well.

 

In any case, I have to respect Alonso for almost always putting in a great performance, like he did today. Massa, in the same car, was never even close.

 

It seems to me Ferrari still has a long way to go, and I'm not sure there's any reason to think much will change during the rest of this season. Meh. :|



#144 RealRacing

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 15:13

Nah.  Alonso must continue to ask Ferrari for a faster car.

 

At this point he needs Massa to finish in front of both Neweys.

Of course, everyone must continue to ask their teams for improvements (especially if you are on a life-long campaign of putting the car down vs. your performance). Regarding Massa, I think it's time for FA to finally endorse a better driver for that seat.



#145 jstrains

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 15:16

Good old Fred today and finally a podium for him in Spa. I wonder where would he ended up if starting in the front :clap:



#146 stillOrange

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 15:18

I'll risk a guess. Same place?

#147 CrucialXtreme

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 15:19

I'm not pinning it on him exclusively, although this time he did make a mistake, which is more than the normally unimpressive qualy performance. Do we actually know for sure that the F138 is so bad with one lap pace? Would love to see LH or SV try a qualy lap with the Ferrari. In any case, mine would have been a better retort from LdM to FA's birthday wish... :D

For sure? No but I think it's pretty obvious. Ferrari cars usually have issues getting heat into the tyres which hurts one lap pace, whereas in the race it's much more competitive relative to others when comparing quali vs race pace. I would like to see what LH or SV could do in it, but I think the difference would be marginal at best. Again, I agree they're better Qualifiers than ALO, and would do a bit better but I think it's down to the car and it's inherent failure to get heat into the tyres quickly.



#148 RealRacing

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 15:24

For sure? No but I think it's pretty obvious. Ferrari cars usually have issues getting heat into the tyres which hurts one lap pace, whereas in the race it's much more competitive relative to others when comparing quali vs race pace. I would like to see what LH or SV could do in it, but I think the difference would be marginal at best. Again, I agree they're better Qualifiers than ALO, and would do a bit better but I think it's down to the car and it's inherent failure to get heat into the tyres quickly.

Still, would be interesting to see how Ferrari does with a better qualifyer...but I don't think any such driver is in their sights for next year anyway...



#149 aditya-now

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 15:37

Fernando's body language to me didn't quite seem too pleased/happy despite the step forward. 

 

Of course not - he wants to win, only that will please him. Once he would settle for second that would be the end of it.

 

Monza should be a one-two!



#150 topical

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 15:38

The car was easily top 2 this weekend. Maybe what FA should ask for his birthday is to become a better qualifyer...

I'm getting tired of hearing this lazy line about Alonso being a rubbish qualifier. If I'm not mistaken, qualifying was more or less 50-50 between him and Hamilton in their year together, which is better than any other teammate has managed against Hamilton (yes, Hamilton was a rookie, but Alonso was new in the team, and look at how it took Hamilton quite a few races to adapt to a new team this year). He has destroyed Massa in their years together. Everyone says, oh, but Massa isn't the same driver he was before the accident. Well, we don't know that, maybe Alonso just makes him look bad.

What I'm saying is, maybe Alonso is getting close to the maximum out of the car in qualy and we just don't realise it? He messed up a bit yesterday, and I certainly wouldn't say he's quite the same league as Hamilton or Vettel on a Saturday, but this idea that his qualifying is somehow a big weak point doesn't wash with me. As long as he's ahead of his teammate, that's all that can be asked of him.

In any case, I hope he gets a more challenging teammate next year. Massa was poor again this weekend. Put him to head to head with Raikkonen and then we can return to this topic.

Meanwhile, on to Monza.