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Four cornered circuits


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#1 D-Type

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 15:34

I've just see a picture of a message taped to the roll bar of James Hunt's McLaren:

"There may only be four corners here, but you still need brakes!!  New pads"

 

I am wondering which circuit it was - Hunt never raced at Zeltweg or Indianapolis.  Any ideas, gents?



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#2 Barry Boor

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 15:38

It may be that whichever circuit it was had more than four corners but only four that required heavy braking.  I'm not suggesting anywhere but could it be Hockenheim?



#3 scheivlak

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 16:11

I am wondering which circuit it was - Hunt never raced at Zeltweg or Indianapolis.  Any ideas, gents?

Didn't he race at Zeltweg quite a few times?



#4 Andrew Hope

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 16:12

Maybe a short version of a larger track? The small version of Oulton Park came to mind.

 

GBR%20Oulton%20Park%201979.gif


Edited by Andrew Hope, 25 August 2013 - 16:12.


#5 Barry Boor

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 16:22

Zeltweg had more than four corners and I doubt Hunt ever drove an F.1 car at that version of Oulton Park.  I'm not being much help, am I?



#6 Rob G

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 16:55

Fuji, perhaps? The gentle left sweeper after turn one isn't really a corner, and the entire second half of the lap could be considered one very long right hander.



#7 Eric Dunsdon

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 17:01

At one time ,the Silverstone Club circuit only had three corners that required brakes and even the full Grand Prix circuit only had four, assuming that the old Woodcote was taken pretty much flat out by the braver ones.



#8 funformula

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 17:09

It may be that whichever circuit it was had more than four corners but only four that required heavy braking.  I'm not suggesting anywhere but could it be Hockenheim?

 

Hmmmm, let´s do a lap in Hockenheim in 1976-78 guise (the years Hunt drove for McLaren)

1st braking at the end of Start/Finish line (Nordkurve)

2nd braking at the first chicane

3rd braking at the second chicane

4th braking at the enty to the Motodrom

5th braking at the entry to the Sachs-Kurve

6th braking at the dip (Senke) the second last right hander before Start/Finish straight.

 

But Zeltweg might be the right track, never drove there in a race car but the old circuit was very fast with sweeping curves. I recall only one heavy braking zone before the first chicane (Hella-S)


Edited by funformula, 25 August 2013 - 18:02.


#9 Barry Boor

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 17:32

Ah yes. I was thinking about the pre-chicane Hockenheim.

 

However, I can't see Zeltweg as having only one braking zone.  Could well be Fuji.



#10 D-Type

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 17:39

The caption of the photo (which is on Speed Addicts P19) says the car is Hunt's McLaren M23 which, if correct, narrows it down to 1976-77 Formula 1 races.  That's why I ruled out Zeltweg which was used in the late sixties.

 

The 'only four corners' could be a reference to a conversation and I think it should be loosely interpreted - possibly as 'four corners requiring heavy braking' as Barry suggests.  At a pinch, it could even be Monza.  Did McLaren ever test at Mallory Park or Lydden Hill?


Edited by D-Type, 25 August 2013 - 19:52.


#11 dweller23

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 17:58

I remember reading about it some time ago, 99% sure it was Fuji.



#12 RobertE

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 18:04

I don't kmow about Mallory or Lydden, but I'm sure they tested at Goodwood, (as did many others) even after the great man was killed there. I think that circuit qualifies as having four corners. (or 3 1/2, if you are really gifted)...



#13 scheivlak

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 19:24

The caption of the photo (which is on Speed Addicts P19) says the car is Hunt's McLaren M23 which, if correct, narrows it down to 1976-77 Formula 1 races.  That's why I ruled out Zeltweg which was used in the late sixties.

 

I see we had some misunderstanding - the Oesterreichring was called Zeltweg as well in the 1970s just as the old airfield track (the 1000km race was even called the Zeltweg 1000 km see e.g.http://www.racingspo...ve/Zeltweg.html). The village of Zeltweg is just 2 kms away from that and the current track.

 

Don't think this was the track meant here BTW.


Edited by scheivlak, 25 August 2013 - 19:26.


#14 D-Type

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 19:48

Yes, when I wrote 'Zeltweg' I meant the original airfield circuit (which did have four corners) as I always think of the Oesterreichring by that name.

 

The Oesterriechring could be described as having four main corners.


Edited by D-Type, 25 August 2013 - 19:53.


#15 LittleChris

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 21:03

How about Zandvoort ?  Tarzan, Hugenholtz, Scheivlak and Panorama



#16 Sharman

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 21:11

C

Maybe a short version of a larger track? The small version of Oulton Park came to mind.

 

GBR%20Oulton%20Park%201979.gif

Apropos of nothing at all really. The first circuit at Oulton turned right at Cascades and went on up Clay Hill. It was re-opened when Rex Foster was MD and named Fosters, what was it called in its first incarnation?


Edited by Sharman, 25 August 2013 - 21:12.


#17 D-Type

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 21:38

How about Zandvoort ?  Tarzan, Hugenholtz, Scheivlak and Panorama

And Bosuit surely?  Also called  Pulleveld on some circuit maps



#18 LittleChris

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 22:36

And Bosuit surely?  Also called  Pulleveld on some circuit maps

Duncan,

 

My thought was that the Panorama chicane  which appeared in 1973 and replaced the Pulleveldt kink would surely have meant that the following Bosuit was flat so wouldn't count. 



#19 D-Type

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Posted 25 August 2013 - 23:02

Fair point



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#20 Stephen W

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 08:19

Apropos of nothing at all really. The first circuit at Oulton turned right at Cascades and went on up Clay Hill. It was re-opened when Rex Foster was MD and named Fosters, what was it called in its first incarnation?

 

The Fosters Circuit was different to "the first circuit at Oulton" as it didn't us the link from Cascades to Clay Hill. They built a short 'cut through' linking Cascades to the straight before Knickerbrook. The first circuit was initially known as Oulton Park and then after the extension came into use it became The Club Circuit.



#21 Sharman

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 09:03

The Fosters Circuit was different to "the first circuit at Oulton" as it didn't us the link from Cascades to Clay Hill. They built a short 'cut through' linking Cascades to the straight before Knickerbrook. The first circuit was initially known as Oulton Park and then after the extension came into use it became The Club Circuit.

Yes I was aware of that having been at the inaugural meeting, I was asking what the corner connecting Cascades to Clay Hill was called, unless it was all Cascades.



#22 Fivestripes

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 09:12

Llandow ? Sorry...............

#23 Nigel Beresford

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 10:33

Fuji, perhaps? The gentle left sweeper after turn one isn't really a corner, and the entire second half of the lap could be considered one very long right hander.

Yes, Ray Grant's note to James is from Fuji. 



#24 D-Type

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 14:58

Thanks - I looked at a few circuit maps and couldn't see an obvious choice.  :up: 

 

TNF comes up trumps again! :clap:



#25 bradbury west

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 18:19

Apropos of nothing at all really. The first circuit at Oulton turned right at Cascades and went on up Clay Hill. It was re-opened when Rex Foster was MD and named Fosters, what was it called in its first incarnation?


John, looking at appendix 2 in Derek Lawson's Oulton tome, part 1, he shows the first circuit layout in 1953 with The Range corner as a right handler after the original rt sweep of The Cascades. it was in 1954 as you know well that the Avenue came to be named, of fond memory. The short cut later turned rt well before the now sharpish left Cascades leading onto the long/full circuit. The Foster's variant turned left via Cascades then right to Knickerbrook, as you know. There seems to be another variant, the Island circuit.
BTW, and OT a bit, when did they fill in the upper lake and what is Tom Dooley doing these days?. He was most helpful in the early days of my research, a very good bloke.
All info from Derek's book.
Roger

#26 Sharman

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Posted 26 August 2013 - 21:15

John, looking at appendix 2 in Derek Lawson's Oulton tome, part 1, he shows the first circuit layout in 1953 with The Range corner as a right handler after the original rt sweep of The Cascades. it was in 1954 as you know well that the Avenue came to be named, of fond memory. The short cut later turned rt well before the now sharpish left Cascades leading onto the long/full circuit. The Foster's variant turned left via Cascades then right to Knickerbrook, as you know. There seems to be another variant, the Island circuit.
BTW, and OT a bit, when did they fill in the upper lake and what is Tom Dooley doing these days?. He was most helpful in the early days of my research, a very good bloke.
All info from Derek's book.
Roger

Roger

Range Corner that was it, but why? I don't know when the upper lake was filled in, I spoke to Tom a few years back when I was trying to trace something, he'll be getting on a bit now, he was a few years older than me, and I'm 77 next. As you say a good bloke, I first met him with John Ellison BRSCC days, John has been gone a long time, time flies and is urged on by the spur of the moment.

John