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Is Alonso on his way out of Ferrari?


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#1 prty

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 09:38

I thought the rumors were completely stupid, but then saw this video:

 

 

Domenicali: [...] we focus on what we have to do, we know what we have to do. And if our drivers go back to the point that I was thinking and you were thinking about, then they know what they have to do. If they don't, well, they know what there is after.

Interviewer: They know where the door is you mean?

Domenicali: Absolutely.

 

To what we already knew Alonso said on Twitter:

 

 

Posted 19 August 2013 - 11:02

Here´s what Alonso just said in his Twitter account:

"The Warrior that uses the sword when is insulted can not be considered brave, brave man does not flinch, because he has higher goals.."

 

 

Now Ecclestone also said this:

 

 

When this writer asked Bernie Ecclestone if he thought that Felipe Massa would be staying at Maranello, he replied: “They should be more worried about hanging on to Alonso…”

 

http://adamcooperf1....e-frame-at-rbr/

 

Thoughts?

In my opinion, he would be completely crazy to switch teams in a big change of rules. Seeing that video, it is extremely rich for Domenicali to say that, as his poor management is a big reason of why Ferrari is not succeeding. But if Alonso stood quiet for 3.5 years, he can do it for an extra half a year and see what's up next season, If everything stays the same, then yes, leave for sure.

 



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#2 Shiroo

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 09:43

For god's sake. Do we really need for every rumor, a new thread?

 

Shouldn't they all be kept inside Silly Season 2014 thread?

What's the god damn point of Silly Season 2014 in the first place.



#3 Cyanide

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 09:44

I believe so.

The interview before Spa gave it away for me. When he was asked if he'll still drive for Ferrari next year, he didn't say yes in the microphone and he hesitated. A LOT. And then smiled and winked. That completely gave it away.

#4 prty

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 09:47

For god's sake. Do we really need for every rumor, a new thread?

 

Shouldn't they all be kept inside Silly Season 2014 thread?

What's the god damn point of Silly Season 2014 in the first place.

 

Well I think the video shows something extremely unusual for a TP to say, unless there is a strong fight or possibility to leave. So that, seeing together with Ecclestone quote, makes it valid for a new thread. If not, mods can merge if they see fit.



#5 rasul

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 09:50

I believe so.

The interview before Spa gave it away for me. When he was asked if he'll still drive for Ferrari next year, he didn't say yes in the microphone and he hesitated. A LOT. And then smiled and winked. That completely gave it away.

Do you have a link to the video? I want to see it.



#6 InfectedPumpkin

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 09:53

Alonso to Red Bull? Oh, that would be knockout for Vettel, I believe.



#7 Jvr

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 10:12

One thing that has not been discussed here is how growded Ferrari seems to be in 2015 -2016 and, in my opinion, this is the main reason why Alonso is looking for options already now.

We know that Alonso has a contract with Ferrari until the end of the year 2016 season but the details and options included remain unknown. However, there is speculation e.g. by BBC that his contract will rule out hiring Vettel.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/13452839

Then Andrew Benson quotes Ferrari sources in October 2012 that Vettel has already inked a deal with Ferrari with an option to join already 2014. We all know now that Vettel has the year 2014 covered by a deal with RBR so earliest he can arrive in 2015 as discussed here many times before.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/19941541

Now if Pekka Frank is correct and Kimi has a 2+1 deal with Ferrari there simply starts to be too many ex WDC drivers for two cars in Ferrari from 2015 onwards…

You can draw three scenarios out from this information:

1. Alonso stays with Ferrari also in 2015 and 2016 and Vettel arrives to Maranello in 2015.
2. Alonso stays with Ferrari, Pekka Frank is right with the Kimi details but Vettel will not arrive to Maranello 2015.
3. Vettel arrives to Maranello from 2015 onwards and Pekka Frank has the details of Kimi’s Ferrari deal right.

In the first scenario Pekka Frank is wrong at least with the 2+1 detail of Kimi’s Ferrari contract since he must yield to Vettel in 2015. But why would Kimi sign only one year deal? And why is Alonso suddenly interested in the driver market situation already now.

In the second scenario Andrew Benson is not correct and Vettel does not have a deal with Ferrari. Kimi can still have a deal done and will drive with Alonso at least for two years. But this does not still explain why Alonso seems to be looking for other options. Next year engine concerns, disputes with Luca, frustration at not having achieved results expected, yes perhaps but still really?

So in the third scenario, Alonso learns about Kimi deal just before Hungaroring. The worst is not neccessarily being teammate with Kimi in 2014 but because the length of the deal tells that his days are numbered, he will be out from Ferrari at the end of next season anyway and starts looking for another seat already now in preparation to the inevitable departure. And if his contract indeed includes clause against hiring Vettel, he can use this as a reason for early termination of his current deal. Also note that in this scenario he would not be directly responding to the pairing with Raikkonen for 2014 rather than preparing already for the future after that. This would also explain why RBR suddenly seems to hesitate with the announcement of Ricciardo: they were originally working to have driver pairing for 2014 with Vettel onboard, however with Kimi signing a deal with Ferrari would push them already thinking the time after Vettel since Alonso as potential replacement suddenly comes available one year too early. So RBR is now forced to scratch their head thinking should they still push for Ricciardo with a risk of losing Alonso in 2015 as a potential replacement for Vettel or take Alonso onboard right now with a risk of running internal fights between the two during 2014 season.

Turrini's latest blog entry seems to tell that Kimi's return to Ferrari in his opinion is logical, Alonso should not be scared of that but he does not like this prospect at all.

#8 krapmeister

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 10:24

Based on these few snippets and RBR seeming to be reluctant to confirm Ricciardo for 2014, I think that the reason Horner doesn't yet want to announce Dan is that he is trying to convince DM that Alonso would be good for Red Bull. Horner also saying that 'we have to think of the future' might not be referring to Dan as such, but that he wants to sign Alonso when he is available, so that when/if Vettel leaves to go to Ferrari the team still has one of the best drivers driving for them...

 

Edit: Sorry should've read Jvr's post more closely - basically what I am saying...


Edited by krapmeister, 27 August 2013 - 10:27.


#9 jedioriginal

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 10:25

Like i said in other topic... Why on earth would Vettel leave Red Bull.That is just crazy talk. As long as bulls are kicking ass and Ferrari is struggling that just dont make any sense. Wind tunnel problems, weak v6 engine waits him at Ferrari and with Bulls hi is winning wdc's.Bulls will never ever hire Alonso as long their wonder boy,golden child is there.

Edited by jedioriginal, 27 August 2013 - 10:27.


#10 Cyanide

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 10:26

Do you have a link to the video? I want to see it.


I'm sorry, I don't. I saw it on Sky Sports on Friday before practice.

If anybody has it, I'd also like to see it again. It was very telling, and Anthony Davidson said that he intentionally didn't use the microphone and kept his head down when saying "yes". So if he does move next year, reporters can't accuse him of lying.

#11 EthanM

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 10:28

Like i said in other topic... Why on earth would Vettel leave Red Bull.That is just crazy talk. As long as bulls are kicking ass and Ferrari is struggling that just dont make any sense. Wind tunnel problems, weak v6 engine waits him at Ferrari and with Bulls hi is winning wdc's.

 

because common wisdom is F1 is exiting the Newey era (ie the aero is king era) and moving into the powertrain is king era. Red Bull have no expertise in that.



#12 One

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 10:32

Vettel wants to provre his worth beyond any influence. 



#13 Antonov

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 10:33

I believe Alonso may jump ship, not because of being unhappy at Ferrari, but rather for the fact that he feels an uncompetitive period coming for the Scuderia.



#14 Disgrace

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 10:40

Like now?



#15 Gorma

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 11:09

because common wisdom is F1 is exiting the Newey era (ie the aero is king era) and moving into the powertrain is king era. Red Bull have no expertise in that.

Then again the latest big rule changes in F1 happened in 1994-1995, 1998, and 2009. Guess who designed the cars that won 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2010, 2011 and 2012.And it's not like the 1994, 1995, 2000 and 2009 cars weren't champsionship contenders.



#16 bub

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 11:16

Where would Alonso go? Didn't Red Bull pass on Hamilton because it would upset the balance or harmony in the team or something? Surely the same would apply to Alonso? 

 

Alonso to go Rallying? 


Edited by bub, 27 August 2013 - 11:17.


#17 BobSugar

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 11:17

Where would Alonso go?

To McLaren with Santander...



#18 2ms

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 11:20

It depends on whether or not Kimi is going to Ferrari next season.  Driving against Kimi would be more harmful to his career than taking a sabbatical or driving in a weaker team would be.

 

If Lotus are able to keep Kimi then Alonso will stay at Ferrari.  If not, then Alonso will do another 2007 (have problem with team and break his contract), and take a sabbatical or go take the seat left by Kimi at Lotus.



#19 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 11:21

Dutch media reported that Dietrich Mateschitz was still on holiday, so no announcement for a driver in Spa. But they also said Mateschitz wants more spectacle in his team and therefore wants Alonso or Raikkonen instead of Ricciardo. If that is true, the deal for Alonso or Raikkonen is done, because Mateschitz still pulls all the strings of course.



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#20 Cyanide

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 11:27

Dutch media reported that Dietrich Mateschitz was still on holiday, so no announcement for a driver in Spa. But they also said Mateschitz wants more spectacle in his team and therefore wants Alonso or Raikkonen instead of Ricciardo. If that is true, the deal for Alonso or Raikkonen is done, because Mateschitz still pulls all the strings of course.


Interesting.

Do you have a link?

#21 SealTheDiffuser

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 11:28

Alonso to Red Bull? Oh, that would be knockout for Vettel, I believe.

 

I would say we d see more turkeys.



#22 Kelateboy

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 11:29

To McLaren with Santander...

 

I believe it is too risky for Alonso to go to McLaren in 2014.

 

In 2014, McLaren will be using the Mercedes engine. The engine could be upgraded and fine-tuned without any restriction for that year. In 2015, McLaren will be changing to Honda engines. This Honda engine in 2015 will be subject to some restrictions and will not be allowed unlimited upgrades like the previous years, unless Honda gets special dispensation from the FIA. What if Honda got the engine wrong for 2015 and substantially down on power than their rivals at Mercedes, Renault and Ferrari? 

 

Staying at Ferrari or moving on to Lotus would be his only real options, IMO.



#23 kosmos

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 11:29

 and take a sabbatical

 

Not gonna happen. Alonso is not Kimi, Alonso has no interests outside F1 (maybe  lemans) , he lives to drive in F1. He will drive or retire. My opinion of course.


Edited by kosmos, 27 August 2013 - 11:32.


#24 SealTheDiffuser

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 11:30

Dutch media reported that Dietrich Mateschitz was still on holiday, so no announcement for a driver in Spa. But they also said Mateschitz wants more spectacle in his team and therefore wants Alonso or Raikkonen instead of Ricciardo. If that is true, the deal for Alonso or Raikkonen is done, because Mateschitz still pulls all the strings of course.

 

I hope that is true, just to make illoyal WEB look stupid.



#25 noikeee

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 11:38

Something's up with Alonso definitely, he has offered himself to Red Bull or at least tried to create the impression he has (story run by Autosport.com so reliable), he was told off in a remarkably public way by Luca di Montezemolo, he replied to it on Twitter half-indirectly, now Domenicali half-indirectly threatens him as well, it's painfully obvious the relationship between Alonso and Ferrari is not what it was 6 months ago.
 
Now that fact is clear, there's still 3 mysteries attached to it:
 
1. What sparked this breakdown in the first place?
2. Is it bad enough for Alonso to really move?
3. Is there a realistic option for Alonso to move to, anyway?
 
And to answer these questions, there's little we can do but speculate and offer theories:
 
1.a) The simple fact Ferrari haven't been good enough for a while, and Alonso having excelled individually throughout his period at the Scuderia is starting to get fed up with it and feels entitled to a better car, time running out within his career. It's obvious this is a factor, but is it the sole reason he's unhappy? It's big enough of a reason, but we don't know for sure.
 
1.b) The rumoured deal of Kimi back to Ferrari. Some people are dead sure this is happening, others think it's complete horseshit. If true, one possible explanation is that Ferrari want to put Kimi in Massa's place to improve the team's strength in the WCC and this is what annoyed Alonso to begin with - who may not be necessarily "scared" of Kimi but is more than happy with Massa as a team-mate of course.
 
1.c) Ferrari may not be looking good for next year. Now this is a wild thing to speculate on, as even insiders in the know will have no idea how their own teams will stack up vs the competitors after a regulation change. Hell, it's entirely possible Ferrari will do a 2002 next year, and everyone worrying about them would suddenly look very silly. But most people seem to be backing the Mercedes and Renault packages to be stronger. Combine that with their wind tunnel problems and Alonso may have reached the conclusion he needs to GTFO of there as soon as possible.
 
1.d) Some other unknown internal conflict. Another wild thing to speculate on, but the Scuderia environment is not short on egos starting by dear Fernando himself (like most other drivers, to be fair). A couple internal debates gone sour and things could've escalated quickly.
 
a) is obvious, but is there an element of b), c) or d)?
 
Now to the next question:
 
2. Well there's only two possible answers, yes or no. He has precedent on a spectacular internal fallout pushing him out of a top team mid-contract (2007), but that was sparked by an incredibly serious, abnormal situation, which is unlikely to ever happen again. The answer to this question will be linked to the following: he's not gonna leave unless there's a realistic exit plan out there.
 
3. a) Red Bull. Well Fernando may want a Red Bull, but I don't think there's a hope in hell that's gonna happen. If Vettel was really off to Ferrari I suppose it could happen, but that rumour has long died down since Vettel tied himself up for next year. Red Bull appear to have decided against pairing Kimi next to Vettel on the basis Kimi would be a bit too good to upset Vettel, so now they'd take Alonso, who is probably even quicker than Kimi and a lot more confrontational than him? No way.
 
3. b) Mercedes. Driver lineup absolutely locked in, with a duo that works perfectly, and a lead driver that nearly sparked World War 3 last time he was paired with Alonso. Not gonna happen in a million years.
 
3. c) McLaren. Well Honda certainly would like a star name, but not only are McLaren looking a bit lost in performance for the immediate future, as long as Ron Dennis is still alive and has the slightest bit of influence in the team, they're more likely to hire Taki Inoue than Fernando.
 
3. d) Lotus. This is the exact same scenario as 2008 isn't it, Fernando back to his original home as a stop-gap until something better appears in the future. Slight problem: they're broke and can't even pay their current driver. So either Fernando takes a pay cut or finds a way to bring the cash himself. Even if he manages to do that by, say, bringing over Santander, which is gonna be incredibly hard as a lot of contracts would need to be bent, the cash would not come in time to be invested in the 2014 machine which is halfway in development at the moment. So he'd be moving to somewhere very likely uncompetitive... now wait a minute, isn't the lack of performance at Ferrari the very reason he wants out? It's not impossible but not making 100% sound sense neither, this move.
 
3. e) any other team. He'd be better off taking Lotus.
 
3. f) 1-year sabbatical. Again, he'd be better off taking Lotus just not to get rusty. This could however happen if he manages to piss off Ferrari so bad they pay him not to drive, anywhere, like Kimi in 2010.
 
So my conclusion is actually fairly simple: he either stays put or takes a step back to Lotus, which doesn't make a lot of sense if he wants out for performance reasons anyway. Something's lost somewhere in translation. Maybe he thought he had a real shot at Red Bull. Maybe he thinks Lotus is actually going to beat Ferrari next year. Maybe he never wanted to leave Ferrari in the first place, only to give them a scare, and that may still turn out to be the case. Maybe he wants out for emotional not logical reasons. Whatever way it plays out, I'm afraid things don't look like they're going according to plan for Fernando.


#26 bub

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 11:46

It depends on whether or not Kimi is going to Ferrari next season.  Driving against Kimi would be more harmful to his career than taking a sabbatical or driving in a weaker team would be.

 

I don't know about that. Running scared from the challenge of facing Kimi would surely make damage his reputation. Matching or beating Kimi would reflect well on him and there's not much to suggest he wouldn't be able to do that.



#27 PoleMan

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 11:47

While I would prefer Alonso stay with Ferrari, I've also felt for awhile that the delay at RBR announcing their drivers was always about Fernando. Sad to say, I've also noticed that the comments from Domenicali, Fry and Alonso, himself, lack the warmth and camaraderie that seemed to exist before. Is it still lasting tension from Luca's blast? Was Luca's eruption due to the fact he knew Alonso was seriously considering a jump to Red Bull? :confused:  Don't know, but the gushing praise Fer would normally receive for his outstanding drive on Sunday seemed muted to me. Also, Alonso saying they did all they could in qualifying, and that the car would have qualified 4th or 5th, really seems to be underplaying the step up in performance. We also have Vettel's comments on Thursday where he repeatedly stated how he doesn't have to like his teammate, and Horner making crystal clear that Vettel won't have a say, I think Nando may be on his way to RBR. If the report on Mateschitz wanting more spectacle and excitement within his team is true, that's just another piece of evidence. Like I said in the Kimi to Ferrari thread, Horner stated early on it was Kim and Dan for Webber's seat -- no one else. Then Kimi's Mgr says the talks are done and Kimi admits that RBR haven't returned his entreaties in a long time. Kimi is not a driver you disrespect like that, especially when you've  pursued him...UNLESS you have someone you think is better. I think that person MUST be Alonso. Maybe if Ferrari turn it around, the Team and Alonso can patch things up, but there appears to be a breach.  :cry:



#28 BorkoF2012

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 11:48

It depends on whether or not Kimi is going to Ferrari next season.  Driving against Kimi would be more harmful to his career than taking a sabbatical or driving in a weaker team would be.

 

If Lotus are able to keep Kimi then Alonso will stay at Ferrari.  If not, then Alonso will do another 2007 (have problem with team and break his contract), and take a sabbatical or go take the seat left by Kimi at Lotus.

You are still trying to convince yourself that Alonso is afraid of Raikkonen? Yeah, sure.

 

Everything is just pure speculation. Only if RB wants him, maybe then he could leave Ferrari. But to go back to Lotus, take a sabbatical, retire? There is not a single reason why he would do that. And there is not a logical reason why would Ferrari replace Alonso with Raikkonen if Alonso wants to stay.


Edited by BorkoF2012, 27 August 2013 - 11:54.


#29 jedioriginal

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 12:02

While I would prefer Alonso stay with Ferrari, I've also felt for awhile that the delay at RBR announcing their drivers was always about Fernando. Sad to say, I've also noticed that the comments from Domenicali, Fry and Alonso, himself, lack the warmth and camaraderie that seemed to exist before. Is it still lasting tension from Luca's blast? Was Luca's eruption due to the fact he knew Alonso was seriously considering a jump to Red Bull? :confused:  Don't know, but the gushing praise Fer would normally receive for his outstanding drive on Sunday seemed muted to me. Also, Alonso saying they did all they could in qualifying, and that the car would have qualified 4th or 5th, really seems to be underplaying the step up in performance. We also have Vettel's comments on Thursday where he repeatedly stated how he doesn't have to like his teammate, and Horner making crystal clear that Vettel won't have a say, I think Nando may be on his way to RBR. If the report on Mateschitz wanting more spectacle and excitement within his team is true, that's just another piece of evidence. Like I said in the Kimi to Ferrari thread, Horner stated early on it was Kim and Dan for Webber's seat -- no one else. Then Kimi's Mgr says the talks are done and Kimi admits that RBR haven't returned his entreaties in a long time. Kimi is not a driver you disrespect like that, especially when you've  pursued him...UNLESS you have someone you think is better. I think that person MUST be Alonso. Maybe if Ferrari turn it around, the Team and Alonso can patch things up, but there appears to be a breach.  :cry:

NÄÄH. Red Bull will NEVER EVER hire Alonso, as long wonderboy is there. Just not gonna happen. I hope im wrong,It would be so cool to see Alonso throw his toys out of the pram.


Edited by jedioriginal, 27 August 2013 - 12:03.


#30 FirstWatt

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 12:02

Did anyone notice how Alonso seemed to pass the finish line at the end of the race as far away from the pitlane (team personnel) as possible? Or am I just being fooled?


Edited by FirstWatt, 27 August 2013 - 12:06.


#31 Shiroo

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 12:02

It depends on whether or not Kimi is going to Ferrari next season.  Driving against Kimi would be more harmful to his career than taking a sabbatical or driving in a weaker team would be.

 

If Lotus are able to keep Kimi then Alonso will stay at Ferrari.  If not, then Alonso will do another 2007 (have problem with team and break his contract), and take a sabbatical or go take the seat left by Kimi at Lotus.

 

O.o why the heck do you think that driving vs Kimi would be more harmful? Maybe he would beat Kimi?



#32 fabr68

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 12:03

Domenicali: [...] we focus on what we have to do, we know what we have to do. And if our drivers go back to the point that I was thinking and you were thinking about, then they know what they have to do. If they don't, well, they know what there is after.

Interviewer: They know where the door is you mean?

Domenicali: Absolutely.

 

Is he talking about Massa?



#33 Seanspeed

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 12:10

Coming from Stefano, I wouldn't read anything into it.  He's a nice guy who doesn't ever have a bad word to say about anybody.  I mean, do you really think he's trying to say that Alonso doesn't know what he needs to do?  That's really the last criticism I'd ever put on Fernando and Stefano isn't dumb enough to think otherwise.



#34 Nonesuch

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 12:12

Interesting post, noikeee. :up:  I'm not sure what to think, but those thoughts sound plausible and reasonable enough.

 

Did anyone notice how Alonso seemed to pass the finish line at the end of the race as far away from the pitlane (team personnel) as possible? Or am I just being fooled?

 

No, I noticed that too. Who knows what it implies, though, if anything at all. :stoned:


Edited by Nonesuch, 27 August 2013 - 12:13.


#35 Owen

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 12:14

Maybe the title of this thread should be 'is Alonso on his way out of Formula 1'?



#36 PoleMan

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 12:15

Is he talking about Massa?

I'm guessing no, but we really need the prior portion of the interview to get additional context.



#37 EthanM

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 12:21

Then again the latest big rule changes in F1 happened in 1994-1995, 1998, and 2009. Guess who designed the cars that won 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2010, 2011 and 2012.And it's not like the 1994, 1995, 2000 and 2009 cars weren't champsionship contenders.

 

That's fascinating but the current reading of the 2014 regs is they shift focus away from aero devellopment (ie they are very restrictive) and towards powertrain development.  Has nothing to do with banning active suspensions or changing the dimensions of the wings, it has to do with what areas of the car a designer is alllowed to work in



#38 schumimercamg

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 12:25

Not gonna happen. Alonso is not Kimi, Alonso has no interests outside F1 (maybe  lemans) , he lives to drive in F1. He will drive or retire. My opinion of course.

 

Fair enough to have an opinion but you are wrong.

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=qdw7MO8pbRA



#39 Antonov

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 12:26

EJ had an interview with Christian Horner on Saturday at Spa. In that, he tried to make it abundantly clear that Ricciardo would be the driver taking Mark Webber's seat. However, there was a part in which Horner suggested there might be a surprise bunny in the hat, to which I seem to recall EJ asked: "Fernando?". At this point, Horner had a faint smile on his face and said nearly nothing.



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#40 artista

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 12:30

...
1.d) Some other unknown internal conflict. Another wild thing to speculate on, but the Scuderia environment is not short on egos starting by dear Fernando himself (like most other drivers, to be fair). A couple internal debates gone sour and things could've escalated quickly.
...

I think there is, at least, a bit of this.

I begun to seriously think about it after reading that little paragraph by Michael Schmidt in AMuS, that was discussed in the Kimi to Ferrari thread a few days ago, the one where sources related to Ferrari had told Schmidt, Alonso was opposing to Räikkönen arrival to the team because he wanted something easier like Massa or Hülkenberg. That paragraph also had a sentence of the likes of "it's not clear the team will do what he wants".

Somebody put into question the truth of the news, and I defended the reliability writer but didn't want to go deeper in the matter, because it was off-topic.
What I, actually, found very interesting was not Alonso wanting somebody in the team or not. What first caught my attention was that it seems there is somebody in Ferrari who is intentionally telling very well respected journos stories that put Alonso in a bad light. And, for me, it smells like an internal conflict there.

#41 kimister

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 12:32

I wonder what was he talking about while stating that focus on what they have to and know what they have to ?  :well:



#42 EthanM

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 12:33

I think there is, at least, a bit of this.

I begun to seriously think about it after reading that little paragraph by Michael Schmidt in AMuS, that was discussed in the Kimi to Ferrari thread a few days ago, the one where sources related to Ferrari had told Schmidt, Alonso was opposing to Räikkönen arrival to the team because he wanted something easier like Massa or Hülkenberg. That paragraph also had a sentence of the likes of "it's not clear the team will do what he wants".

Somebody put into question the truth of the news, and I defended the reliability writer but didn't want to go deeper in the matter, because it was off-topic.
What I, actually, found very interesting was not Alonso wanting somebody in the team or not. What first caught my attention was that it seems there is somebody in Ferrari who is intentionally telling very well respected journos stories that put Alonso in a bad light. And, for me, it smells like an internal conflict there.

 

 

umm you needed a story to see there is internal conflict? Why? Wasn't The horse whisperer blurb followed by the LdM interview enough?  :p

 

The real question isn't if there is conflict, there is. THe real question is the underlying reason for the conflict. Ie is Alonso trying to back-door motivate the team or is Alonso looking for a way out. That we may never find out.



#43 redreni

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 12:33

Read Adam Hay-Nicholls' ridiculous Metro column this morning. He has Alonso at Red Bull this season, but there was no source, he was just inferring from the fact that Kimi's been ruled out by his manager and Horner claims to be talking to other drivers besides Ricciardo, that obviously it must be Alonso. There didn't seem to be any deeper reasoning behind it than that.

 

As far as I can see Ferrari can't get Hamilton or Vettel so their best option for the first seat is Alonso - he is clearly a much better option that Kimi.

 

Red Bull could have any driver they wanted although Alonso and Hamilton would be very expensive choices because they're tied into expensive contracts with their teams. I'm sure Red Bull could afford to buy either one of them out of their contracts, but if they did that they'd be taking money out of their own budget and effectively adding it to Ferrari or Mercedes' budget, which is just a bad idea.

 

The internal dispute within Red Bull doesn't appear to have been resolved, and it is interesting to hear Kimi saying they basically never called him back, which is what would happen if the decision was on hold pending a reconcilliation of Horner and Marko's differences. But you can see why the preferred options would be either Kimi if you want the best driver you can realistically get, who is an out-of-contract world champion, or Ricciardo if you want somebody who would do the job on a number two basis.

 

I still think it's between Kimi and Ricciardo, with Ricciardo now heavy favourite bearing in mind the almost unequivocal comments from Robertson and Raikkonnen that they're not talking to Red Bull anymore, and so I can't see where else Alonso would want to go.



#44 bourbon

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 12:36

Well if he went to RBR, I think it would be a tough situation, similar to 2007, but worse because Alonso would be walking into an established situation, where the team has grown into what it is with its present champion.  Ultimately, I think the RBR environment would be similar to what it is now x10.   The situation would not likely end well. 



#45 topical

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 12:40

I think there is, at least, a bit of this.

I begun to seriously think about it after reading that little paragraph by Michael Schmidt in AMuS, that was discussed in the Kimi to Ferrari thread a few days ago, the one where sources related to Ferrari had told Schmidt, Alonso was opposing to Räikkönen arrival to the team because he wanted something easier like Massa or Hülkenberg. That paragraph also had a sentence of the likes of "it's not clear the team will do what he wants".
 

I think Alonso would probably have an easier time against Raikkonen than Hulkenberg. Anyway, Monza is next, when Ferrari traditionally announce their drivers. It's going to be such an absurd anti climax, if like Button thinks, everyone stays exactly where they are, including Massa. As for Alonso, going to Lotus makes no sense at all. It's either go to Red Bull, stay at Ferrari or retire.



#46 artista

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 12:42

umm you needed a story to see there is internal conflict? Why? Wasn't The horse whisperer blurb followed by the LdM interview enough?  :p
 
The real question isn't if there is conflict, there is. THe real question is the underlying reason for the conflict. Ie is Alonso trying to back-door motivate the team or is Alonso looking for a way out. That we may never find out.

I admit I don't read the horse whisperer. I don't enjoy reading people who systematically scorn or look down on other people :blush:

From the Montezemolo words, it was clear they had a problem, but it was something pretty open. Sometimes you can have a punctual argument with somebody that gets out of control, the thing ends up in a few names being called and 5 minutes later the problem is solved and forgotten. It might or might not be the case with the LdM rant.
Going to certain media, days later, whispering stories (real one or made up) is a much more subtle and thought strategy. It doesn't look like momentary argument but a latent conflict.

#47 MMandi

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 12:45

Alonso to Red Bull? Oh, that would be knockout for Vettel, I believe.

 

Vettel would beat him I feel, and when he does we will see old Alonso drama queen which I kind of enjoyed to watch


Edited by MMandi, 27 August 2013 - 12:46.


#48 Coops3

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 12:48

The impression I get is that Alonso is making indications that he might leave in an effort to motivate the team. I doubt he's serious about it though.



#49 krapmeister

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 12:48

Based on these few snippets and RBR seeming to be reluctant to confirm Ricciardo for 2014, I think that the reason Horner doesn't yet want to announce Dan is that he is trying to convince DM that Alonso would be good for Red Bull. Horner also saying that 'we have to think of the future' might not be referring to Dan as such, but that he wants to sign Alonso when he is available, so that when/if Vettel leaves to go to Ferrari the team still has one of the best drivers driving for them...

 

...Or as I posted in another thread, perhaps Horner is just trying to destabilise Ferrari/Alonso further by delaying the Ricciardo announcement in the hope the relationship is damaged beyond repair? Let's face it, it's looking pretty shaky at the moment. Having one of their chief title rivals out of the picture would be a huge bonus to Vettel/RBR...


Edited by krapmeister, 27 August 2013 - 12:50.


#50 redreni

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 12:49

I think Alonso would probably have an easier time against Raikkonen than Hulkenberg. Anyway, Monza is next, when Ferrari traditionally announce their drivers. It's going to be such an absurd anti climax, if like Button thinks, everyone stays exactly where they are, including Massa. As for Alonso, going to Lotus makes no sense at all. It's either go to Red Bull, stay at Ferrari or retire.

 

And it's way too early for Alonso to retire...