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Searching F1 technical regulations from the first season


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#1 Xwang

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 10:58

Hi to all,

I would like to know if it is possible to find anywhere all the F1 technical regulations from the first season.

I would like to study how the technical regulations have developed over the years.

FIA site seems not to have an historical archieve.

Can you help me?

Thank you,

Xwang



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#2 David McKinney

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 14:40

You mean from 1947?



#3 Xwang

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 14:49

Yes!



#4 Vitesse2

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Posted 27 August 2013 - 16:48

The International Formula for the years 1947-51, as agreed by the CSI on June 21st 1946 (extended by a further two years in October 1947), was very simple.

 

In short: engines to have a maximum capacity of 4500cc unsupercharged, 1500cc supercharged. No restrictions on number of cylinders, bodywork or weight. Cars to be driven through the wheels: jets, turbines and propeller-driven machinery banned (if anyone had wanted to run a diesel they could have done, but at parity of capacity so it would have been uncompetitive). Separate control fuels for blown and unblown engines for 1947 and 1948 only - thereafter choice of fuels to be free. In reality, I don't think many organisers actually enforced the control fuels rule.

 

And that's pretty much it ...



#5 D-Type

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 08:52

Were there any overarching safety regulations applicable to all competition cars (there were at later dates)?  I'm thinking of things like a fire resistant bulkhead between engine and driver?



#6 Allan Lupton

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 11:50

Were there any overarching safety regulations applicable to all competition cars (there were at later dates)?  I'm thinking of things like a fire resistant bulkhead between engine and driver?

I don't know, but the fire- and liquid-proof bulkhead requirement was there a long time ago in lesser levels of motor sport



#7 David McKinney

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 13:23

Such matters would have been covered in the general regs for all competition cars, so no need to repeat them for each formula



#8 Xwang

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 15:27

Such matters would have been covered in the general regs for all competition cars, so no need to repeat them for each formula

 

And all these (ancient I agree) regulations are somewhere available?

Xwang



#9 David McKinney

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 16:24

Not that I know of. Certainly not online



#10 Vitesse2

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 16:53

And all these (ancient I agree) regulations are somewhere available?

Xwang

The appendices to the CSI's International Sporting Code may be relevant.

 

Don Capps told us some time ago that the IMRRC at Watkins Glen has a copy of the final pre-war edition (1939) and also a 1950 edition.

 

http://forums.autosp...13#entry2696071

 

I have also traced a copy of the 1939 edition in the National Library of France.

 

http://catalogue.bnf...38593873/PUBLIC

 

However, I have no idea whether there were any editions published in between 1939 and 1950. As the CSI were busy rewriting and recodifying the sport's rules at that time, including creating new sports car and touring car categories, I suspect there may not have been.



#11 D-Type

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 22:30

And all these (ancient I agree) regulations are somewhere available?

Xwang

At secondhand you may find details of the regulations in contemporary books or magazines.



#12 David McKinney

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 05:09

I don't recall seeing such detail in contemporary magazines (English, German) or any books

Likeliest print source might be a historical magazine article



#13 Roger Clark

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 06:25

The International Formula for the years 1947-51, as agreed by the CSI on June 21st 1946 (extended by a further two years in October 1947), was very simple.
 
In short: engines to have a maximum capacity of 4500cc unsupercharged, 1500cc supercharged. No restrictions on number of cylinders, bodywork or weight. Cars to be driven through the wheels: jets, turbines and propeller-driven machinery banned (if anyone had wanted to run a diesel they could have done, but at parity of capacity so it would have been uncompetitive). Separate control fuels for blown and unblown engines for 1947 and 1948 only - thereafter choice of fuels to be free. In reality, I don't think many organisers actually enforced the control fuels rule.
 
And that's pretty much it ...

You posted on a now archived thread that there were requirements for one or two seats, a firewall and two mirrors.

#14 Vitesse2

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 06:57

Indeed, thanks for the memory-jog, Roger!

 

http://forums.autosp...dpost&p=4772766



#15 RVM

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 14:58

I don't recall seeing such detail in contemporary magazines (English, German) or any books

Likeliest print source might be a historical magazine article

 

To a large degree, much was inferred in the various contemporary periodicals given that the basics of the formula were so simple; keep in mind, however, that the formula and the championship were two separate entities.



#16 Xwang

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 16:23

Ok, and what about regulation post 1970?

Xwang



#17 Xwang

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 21:44

Xwang, did it ever cross your mind to make a quick search on internet? I just did - out of curiosity from your attitude to make questions - and found in a minute plenty of info.

It seems by the casual way you make your question - which in fact is as wide ranging as the history of motorsport - that you just ask and sit there waiting for people here to do the legwork for you.

 

I've searched on internet, but with the exception of the technical regulations from 2008 onwards, I've been unable to find any other technical regulation document applicable to the more "ancient" seasons. In particular I know that the actual F1 technical regulations should originate from the 1978 regulations which were deeply reorganized.

However with the exception of general discussions describing the main differences from one year to another, I wasn't able to find the actual regulations, so I asked here in case someone has in the past maintained a copy of these documents.



#18 D-Type

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Posted 31 August 2013 - 23:51

What you need is a copy of the FIA Year Book of Automobile Sport, generally referred to as the "Yellow book" because of its colour.  For example Abebooks list a few.



#19 RVM

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 00:00

Beginning in 1968, the FIA began issuing the Annuaire du Sport Automobile/Year Book of Automobile Sport, (the "Yellow Books") which contained the sort of information for which you seem to be searching. Prior to this date, such information was usually found in the annual publication of the Sporting Code and periodic bulletins issued by the CSI. Some of those here have copies of both the Yellow Books and some of the other CSI publications, such as the Sporting Code and bulletins. However, much of this seems yet to have its way into the ether. There are times when the old-fashioned ways of research must still be used. It is damned hard and slow research requiring a deal deal of time and effort. Always keep in mind that, as mentioned, little of this information was available to the interested fan many decades ago, it all had to be ferreted out, usually a piece at a time, often only collected well after the fact.



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#20 Roger Clark

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 05:32

Xwang, did it ever cross your mind to make a quick search on internet? I just did - out of curiosity from your attitude to make questions - and found in a minute plenty of info.
It seems by the casual way you make your question - which in fact is as wide ranging as the history of motorsport - that you just ask and sit there waiting for people here to do the legwork for you.

As has been shown by subsequent posts, this is not a simple matter. Research is more than the ability to type the appropriate words into a search engine and I, for one, would not rely on the vast majority of motor sport related websites. The collective knowledge of TNF is far more reliable. TNF prospered through the knowledge of its members and their willingness to share it. I wish new members wouldn't be put down for seeking to draws on that resource.

#21 Xwang

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 10:28

What you need is a copy of the FIA Year Book of Automobile Sport, generally referred to as the "Yellow book" because of its colour.  For example Abebooks list a few.

 

 

Beginning in 1968, the FIA began issuing the Annuaire du Sport Automobile/Year Book of Automobile Sport, (the "Yellow Books") which contained the sort of information for which you seem to be searching. Prior to this date, such information was usually found in the annual publication of the Sporting Code and periodic bulletins issued by the CSI. Some of those here have copies of both the Yellow Books and some of the other CSI publications, such as the Sporting Code and bulletins. However, much of this seems yet to have its way into the ether. There are times when the old-fashioned ways of research must still be used. It is damned hard and slow research requiring a deal deal of time and effort. Always keep in mind that, as mentioned, little of this information was available to the interested fan many decades ago, it all had to be ferreted out, usually a piece at a time, often only collected well after the fact.

 

Thank you.

I optimistically hoped that such documents (the technical regulations) have been digitalized and published somewhere, but your indication is however very useful since I've never found any indication on this "yellow books" before. Now that I know that the technical regulations are included in such book I can search and purchase them.

 

 

I have no issues for sharing knowledge, it's the very nature of this forum. We all make and reply to questions. But one can't make a wide question such as this and hope to make himself a culture just by reading the replies. The best suggestion would be to provide directions where to find the answers - websites, books, libraries - and then perhaps discuss here specific issues. Does really anybody expect to see here - in this forum - published the whole regulations since motorsport began?

 

One second to find this:

 

http://en.wikipedia....One_regulations

 

That links describes the differences, but it is not what I'm searching since it does not report the changes in the regulations so that it is almost impossible (IMHO) to understand all the "innovations" which have been created year by year by F1 engineers to respect newer "diktat" with less performance penalties (for example the double diffuser has emerged when the regulation on the diffuser has changed to theoretically reduce the performance of the diffuser, but since the regulation do not prohibited the openings in the vertical planes joining the two references planes, it was possible for Brawn and his staff to exploit such a "grey area" which has been more completely defined in the following year technical regulations). 

From my point of view in fact there are two kind of innovation in F1:

1) the innovation that appears without any technical regulation change (for example the turbocharged engine in 1977 has not been urged by any rule modification but only from the development of more advanced turbo engine)

2) the innovation that appears as an effect of a new limitation in the technical regulation (as for example the double diffuser, the brahmam bt49c hydro-pneumatic suspensions to full fill the newer requirements on minimum height in 1981).

The knowledge of the technical  rules year by year should permit to understand why  an innovation has appeared in a particular contest and why some technical rules has been changed over the years.

So I admit I was a bit not precise in formulating my first post and I apology for that.

Xwang



#22 D-Type

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 17:34

To put things in perspective: I have a copy of the 1975 'Yellow book'.  It is also written in French and English so everything is doubled up.  .  SIt is about 500 pages long, but it's difficult to say as it is split into sections. The International Sporting Regulations are about 70 pages long plus 250 pages of Appendices.  Within Appendix 'J' the section for Formula 1i s about one page long in each language together with two pages of diagrams.  The headings are

Validity (1966 to 1977)

Engines with reciprocating pistons

Turbine engine

Minimum Weight

Overall body dimensions

Rubber bladder fuel tanks (this was nearly half of the one page)

Oil tanks

Fire extinguishers

Crushable structure

Safety roll-bar

 

So, at that time there wasn't much to change and the changes could be summarised in a press article.  Since then although the number and complexity of the regulations has increased I would imagine they are still not that long and again the changes year-on-year will be . 



#23 Xwang

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 17:37

As far as I know a big change in the structure of the f1 technical regulations should have happened in 1978.



#24 RVM

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Posted 01 September 2013 - 22:20

As far as I know a big change in the structure of the f1 technical regulations should have happened in 1978.

 

Perhaps, perhaps not....



#25 Xwang

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 15:29

Perhaps, perhaps not....


What do you mean?

#26 Supersox

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 15:39

Article 274 of the technical prescriptions, International Formula 1,  in the 1978 FIA year Book is to all intents and purposes word for word from the 1977 FIA Year book.

Whilst the original F1 regulation in 1966 ran until 1977 the FIA did not change the essential regulations after the date break. So the ''should have happened'' didn't.


Edited by Supersox, 02 September 2013 - 15:40.


#27 Xwang

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 19:09

As I've said, I don't have 1977, 1978 and 1979 regulations.

However I've a book "Formula 1: Evoluzione tecnica regolamento" Enrico Benzing ISBN 9788879114974. the author is a famous Italian engineer and journalist who has been for long year in the FIA technical commission. 

He reports that in the 1978 there has been a "revolution" in the technical regulation and since then even if a lot of articles has been changed or added, the layout has remained the same and the same is for the first article.

Now you speak of the article 274, but in recent years technical regulations I can't find it (the articles are numbered x.y.[z], so I wonder if we are speaking of different things or maybe the "revolution" has been coded in 1978, but has been adopted in later years (these was a little dramatic years in the governance of F1 if I remember well, do you agree?).

Xwang

 

PS in 1978, I was only two years old so I've learned all these things by reading books, watching TV programs and so on.


Edited by Xwang, 02 September 2013 - 19:12.


#28 RVM

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Posted 02 September 2013 - 20:18

Benzing is, I would guess, alluding to the arrival of Jean-Marie Balestre and the subsequent turmoil that ensued, leading to no end of changes, technical and otherwise, regarding the Formule Internationale No. 1/ International Racing Formula 1.