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INDYCAR Europe as a retirement series for (former) F1 drivers


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Poll: INDYCAR Europe as a retirement series for (former) F1 drivers (34 member(s) have cast votes)

What do you think?

  1. Cool! (11 votes [32.35%])

    Percentage of vote: 32.35%

  2. No! (10 votes [29.41%])

    Percentage of vote: 29.41%

  3. Wtf? (13 votes [38.24%])

    Percentage of vote: 38.24%

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#1 SealTheDiffuser

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 13:52

We have the cars, we have all these unemployed heros ( Alguersuari :smoking:, Liuzzi, Kovalainen, Kobayshi, Buemi, Petrov, etc. ).

At least one former F1 driver per team (if not all) and one newcomer that could not pay enough to get into F1 ( like Frijns).

GP2 or WSbR required.

Or call it GP1 or F2 or Megarace1!

 

It is for the fans, for the show, for the greatness of mankind.


Edited by SealTheDiffuser, 28 August 2013 - 13:54.


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#2 SealTheDiffuser

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 14:47

No? :cry:



#3 ApexMouse

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 14:52

And the cars come from.... where exactly? And where can you race? Nowhere that F1 does, for a start.



#4 SealTheDiffuser

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 15:20

And the cars come from.... where exactly? And where can you race? Nowhere that F1 does, for a start.

 

From Dallara. Plenty of circuits availbale in Europe.

Of course it needs a business model, but that was not the question here, only if you d think it was a great idea.

But apparently no one wants to see Kobayashi racing (pretty fast) single seaters again.

I think Buemi driving only LeMans and other sportscar stuff is a waste and in touringcars a lot of single seater guys fail later on... Glock, Frentzen, RSC...

So this series would be the alternative, to keep the heros in headlines and see some young guys giving the allstars a hard time, and maybe finding a hitchhike to F1.



#5 TheUltimateWorrier

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 15:23

We have the cars, we have all these unemployed heros ( Alguersuari :smoking:, Liuzzi, Kovalainen, Kobayshi, Buemi, Petrov, etc. ).

At least one former F1 driver per team (if not all) and one newcomer that could not pay enough to get into F1 ( like Frijns).

GP2 or WSbR required.

Or call it GP1 or F2 or Megarace1!

 

It is for the fans, for the show, for the greatness of mankind.

 

It's a nice idea but I think you've just described what Formula E is going to be. Unemployed Formula 1 drivers, young talents and guest drivers (as Andretti is going to be one of the teams in the championship) all on street circuits. If FIA get it right, it could be quite a spectacle.



#6 WhiteSGPlayer

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 15:26

Liuzzi is employed. Kobayashi is employed. Buemi is employed.

 

There's a lot more than just F1 you know.



#7 SealTheDiffuser

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 15:28

Liuzzi is employed. Kobayashi is employed. Buemi is employed.

 

There's a lot more than just F1 you know.

 

:rolleyes:



#8 WhiteSGPlayer

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 15:30

:rolleyes:

 

Well what did you mean then? To quote your own OP "unemployed heros"

 

Those three drivers are employed. The others (Kova and Alguersuari) lack of a drive is almost entirely their own fault.


Edited by WhiteSGPlayer, 28 August 2013 - 15:31.


#9 SealTheDiffuser

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 15:33

Well what did you mean then? To quote your own OP "unemployed heros"

 

Those three drivers are employed. The others (Kova and Alguersuari) lack of a drive is almost entirely their own fault.

 

thank you for your information, I meant underemployed!  :wave:



#10 WhiteSGPlayer

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 15:38

thank you for your information, I meant underemployed!  :wave:

 

Ahh, righto. No hard feelings :wave:

 

As for underemployed, I'm not sure being in a top LMP1 team that came second in Le Mans can be classed as underemployed. The others I wouldn't mind seeing LMP2 drives for.

 

I wouldn't actually mind seeing a European branch of Indycar. There are so many good tracks across Europe that aren't used in F1. Maybe boot them across the pond for the Indy 500 when it runs.



#11 eronrules

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 15:47

basically what you are saying is that F1 needs to have simultaneous support categories not reserved only for young guns (i.e GP2/GP3) but for out of job drivers/reserve drivers that currently doesn't drive/former heroes who's pass 'best before date' for F1 but still in shape for lower speed categories ....

 

 

in short, what you're talking about is something close to Nascar Nationwide series or Truck series

 

problem is, formula 1 is formula 1, it's not as spec as say Sprint cup, so anything imaginable is always gonna be less than the real deal, i.e F1 , it's called the pinnacle of motor racing for a reason.

 

there was series called 'Grand prix masters' but that folded just after one year (2005)

 

http://en.wikipedia....nd_Prix_Masters

this was created specifically for Formula 1 heroes/ retirees/out of job drivers. but peoples interest was non existant,  cause once you're out of the real deal, you are forgotten.

 

yes, there might be a series like Indycar euro series, but scheduling, finding sponsors, organizing etc would be pretty damn hard to near impossible. europe doesn't work like USA, say if lewis hamilton won a GP3 race on thursday, people won't bother watching it, they'll wait for sunday, cause that's the day he'll drive his mercedes F1 car  against say kimi/alonso/vettel. same thing will happen if Michael schumacher won a race in GP2, some will watch , most will ignore. it's not like kyle busch winning truck race and most nascar fans watching it.



#12 noikeee

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 17:01

This would be cool and fun to watch yeah. Sort of like A1GP meets Formula Superleague on steroids without a gimmicky theme. But ultimately there's no money, desire or market to make this happen so we can only dream.



#13 Dunc

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 17:44

This is a nice idea, the problem would be making a series out of it.  Retired F1 drivers are just that, retired, and can't commit to a series.  One idea could be to have a regular driver - like Kamui,Jaime, etc - and a guest driver, who could be a retired F1 driver or a test driver or an up and comer.  Personally I like the idea of Formula Cosworth, where every car has the same engine, with the chassis left up to the team.  It could prove a way for F1 teams to experiment, or for smaller outfits to hone their skills before heading to F1.



#14 Risil

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 18:11

Heh, make a series whose big selling point is all the drivers who don't bring enough money to be in F1. That'll work.



#15 sopa

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 18:37

You might think that Kobayashi, Alguersuari, Kovalainen and Petrov are good and them racing would create some excitement. But let's be honest - apart from die-hard racing fans most of the people could care less about them. They care about Vettel, Hamilton, Alonso, Raikkonen, maybe someone else, and as long as they keep racing in F1, those people care about F1 and not some lower series.

 

A1GP and Superleague Formula had some former solid F1 drivers too. Like Verstappen. Or Bourdais. But who cared. People care about F1, because that is pinnacle. Other series create interest only if they are something completely different. And NASCAR, touring car and sportscar series are completely differnet and in a way attract different fan bases. What you propose is a dumbed down version of open-wheel F1 and it doesn't really offer anything unique. A series has to be unique in its own way to really attract anyone.



#16 garoidb

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 20:08

there was series called 'Grand prix masters' but that folded just after one year (2005)

 

http://en.wikipedia....nd_Prix_Masters

this was created specifically for Formula 1 heroes/ retirees/out of job drivers. but peoples interest was non existant,  cause once you're out of the real deal, you are forgotten.

 

I don't know that people's interest was non-existent, but the economics obviously did not work. That series was (mostly) targeted at drivers 45 years old and over, so it is not really what the OP is proposing. At one time CART was starting to look like a "retirement" series for GP drivers who had either finished their careers or not quite stayed in F1. More recently, DTM seems to have filled that role, and now we see more opportunities in sports cars again.  Personally, I would like to see sports car racing be much stronger and more high profile, as it seemed to be in the 1980s. That, and much more F1 testing for non-regular F1 drivers.  



#17 JHSingo

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 20:24

We have the cars, we have all these unemployed heros ( Alguersuari :smoking:, Liuzzi, Kovalainen, Kobayshi, Buemi, Petrov, etc. ).

At least one former F1 driver per team (if not all) and one newcomer that could not pay enough to get into F1 ( like Frijns).

 

 

Not even close. If you actually paid more attention to other forms of motorsport, other than just F1, and you'd find that some you mention are not in the least bit "unemployed."

 

Kobayashi is at AF Corse in the WEC, the pseudo-works Ferrari GT team. Buemi is a factory Toyota driver in the LMP1 car and races in the WEC also. Liuzzi races (and is in contention for the title) in the Superstars series, and races in GTs. Alguersuari is close to announcing an IndyCar deal, and came close to a DTM drive with BMW at the start of the year.

 

Some unbelievable levels of F1 snobbism in this thread. Unemployed/Underemployed? They get paid to race cars. What more do you want? Not your fault if you don't follow/aren't interesting in the championship they race in.

 

I guess you are one of these people who is adamant that Webber is retiring, rather than moving on to another form of racing? :lol:

 

Sorry. Couldn't hold that rant in.  ;)



#18 Disgrace

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 20:31

You might think that Kobayashi, Alguersuari, Kovalainen and Petrov are good and them racing would create some excitement. But let's be honest - apart from die-hard racing fans most of the people could care less about them. They care about Vettel, Hamilton, Alonso, Raikkonen, maybe someone else, and as long as they keep racing in F1, those people care about F1 and not some lower series.

 

A1GP and Superleague Formula had some former solid F1 drivers too. Like Verstappen. Or Bourdais. But who cared. People care about F1, because that is pinnacle. Other series create interest only if they are something completely different. And NASCAR, touring car and sportscar series are completely differnet and in a way attract different fan bases. What you propose is a dumbed down version of open-wheel F1 and it doesn't really offer anything unique. A series has to be unique in its own way to really attract anyone.

 

Unless it's a gimmick like racing under the banner of countries or football teams. I liked A1GP but it had nothing to do with it's "World Cup of Motorsport" slogan. I see nothing wrong with different high-end single seater series, but the distinction would have to be something technical, e.g. V8 Supercars. Likewise the idea it should be reserved for F1 rejects is laughable at best.


Edited by Disgrace, 28 August 2013 - 20:32.


#19 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 20:38

Just inventing another spec series is not solving anything. I am old and look at the past through rose-tinted glasses, but not having multiple manufacturers in F3 and GP2 is a step back, making engines basically 'spec' in F1 is a step back. Autoracing as a whole have been diluted into a corporate entertainment image, which is not as interesting as the times gone by. I think that Vettel, Alonso and Hamilton are the 3 best drivers in the world, and I and sure that there are worthy drivers outside F1.

But your proposal I voted 'wtf' to, yet another poor series is not the way forward.

:cool:

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#20 SealTheDiffuser

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 20:52

with retirement series I meant something like "forced retirement series" , not for the guys who get old in F1 like RAI, ALO or BUT...

 

and that starts with guys like kovalainen, I mean he seems to be just unlucky, and also I can't see how the breeder series GP2 and WSbR are serving us the next ALO atm...

 

so I'sd rather have a series with guys I (we) know, that we like and that is competive and fun to watch.....  just dreaming!

 

I mean INDYCAR US is more fun to watch than GP2 and WSbR altogether........ imho



#21 turssi

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 21:13

We will have Formula E for this.



#22 JHSingo

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 21:13

I mean INDYCAR US is more fun to watch than GP2 and WSbR altogether........ imho

 

They're completely different things though, I'm not sure how you can compare them. IndyCar is (supposedly) the top level of open wheel racing in America. GP2 and WSbR are feeder series for junior drivers as they try to reach F1.


Edited by JHSingo, 28 August 2013 - 21:14.


#23 HaydenFan

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 21:53

Heh, make a series whose big selling point is all the drivers who don't bring enough money to be in F1. That'll work.

 

Exactly! Nobody wants to see the 15th place guy in F1 from 5 years ago winning. Touring Car racing (where most of the F1 rejects(key word here) is fun and all, but I think most root for the F1 guy to fail (at least I do). 
 

Not even close. If you actually paid more attention to other forms of motorsport, other than just F1, and you'd find that some you mention are not in the least bit "unemployed."

 

 

Still underemployed for their past history. While some F1 rejects get good rides and are fast as hell in their new series, are they getting paid anywhere close to what they previously had in F1? Doubt even the likes of Jaime Green, Tom Kristensen, Gabriele Tarquini (anyone not in a top NASCAR/IndyCar seat) are making anywhere close to what even the guys at Toro Rosso or Williams are making. Are they in good seats and okay with where they are? Absolutely (well okay, maybe Jaime Green is rethinking the Merc to Audi move) they are. They are just not in F1. F1 is where the superstardom comes from. Where the money seems to flow like champagne and everything is happy and great. F1 is where most every driver aspired to be. That is why they are underemployed. 


Edited by HaydenFan, 28 August 2013 - 21:55.


#24 PayasYouRace

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Posted 28 August 2013 - 22:03

I find it hard to see where the mass appeal would come from for such a series. As someone above said, Formula E is going to be the next series to fulfil this A1GP style role now anyway.



#25 IwashavingaKimi

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 07:58

Well the IndyCar Winter Series "coming" in the next 2 years should see some of the guys you're talking about maybe get some one offs in a non-points IndyCar series.

 

(Also Alguersuari is rumored to have a real IndyCar test funded by Dallara but we know how his rumors usually turn out)


Edited by IwashavingaKimi, 29 August 2013 - 07:58.


#26 anbeck

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 09:11

Actually, I'd prefer IndyCar (as is) as a F1 retirement series, that was some fun with the Fittipaldis, Andretti, Mansell, etc...



#27 JHSingo

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Posted 29 August 2013 - 12:31

Still underemployed for their past history. While some F1 rejects get good rides and are fast as hell in their new series, are they getting paid anywhere close to what they previously had in F1? Doubt even the likes of Jaime Green, Tom Kristensen, Gabriele Tarquini (anyone not in a top NASCAR/IndyCar seat) are making anywhere close to what even the guys at Toro Rosso or Williams are making. Are they in good seats and okay with where they are? Absolutely (well okay, maybe Jaime Green is rethinking the Merc to Audi move) they are. They are just not in F1. F1 is where the superstardom comes from. Where the money seems to flow like champagne and everything is happy and great. F1 is where most every driver aspired to be. That is why they are underemployed. 

 

 

That's absolute nonsense.

 

Tom Kristensen, is, without shadow of a doubt, making more at Audi (one of the leading car manufacturers in the world) than either Toro Rosso driver is making. As for Williams? Given their driver line up is made up of two pay drivers, it isn't hard to work it out.

 

Tom K has done better than most in F1 these days. Come on, think about it. There to make up the numbers in the F1 midpack, or 9 wins at Le Mans, one of the most prestigious races in the world? Hmm, tough choice... :rolleyes:

 

As for guys like Green in DTM - well, apparently since BMW re-entered, the cap on salaries Audi and Mercedes had agreed to has been blown out the water, and no longer exists. Why else did Timo Glock leave F1 and Marussia for BMW and the DTM? For a start, as proven already this season, he has a much, much better chance of getting on the podium and regularly scoring points, and secondly, I'd wager he is earning more as a BMW driver now than he did as a Marussia driver. Marussia couldn't afford him, simple as.

 

Underemployed, what a laugh. I'd love some racing drivers to actually read a comment like that - as I said earlier, they get paid as a professional racing driver. They are doing what they always wanted to do. F1 certainly isn't the be all and end all that you guys make it out to be.

 

Look at it this way. A lot of youngsters who are starting out in motorsport these days aren't spending long in single seaters, because they realise that not only is it extremely expensive, but even as an incredibly talented driver, you're unlikely to reach F1. That is, unless you were born with a silver spoon in your mouth like Max Chilton, or are backed by your nation's oil company, like Maldonado...

 

Many youngsters are looking at going down the GT or sports car racing route, or tin top racing route. Yes, they're not in F1, but they have a much better chance at making a living from being a racing driver.

 

Leave IndyCar as it is, nothing should be an "F1 retirement series." If F1 drivers want to try other forms of motorsport, great, but like I said earlier, the world doesn't, and shouldn't, revolve simply around Formula One.

 

Most racing drivers don't care about being famous or earning lots of money. That's not why they started racing in the first place.


Edited by JHSingo, 29 August 2013 - 12:35.