60 replies to this topic

[luispaulob]

2008

 

- F-Renault Alps

 

16 races, 1 win, 1 pole, 1 fastest lap, 10 podiums, 2° overall (1° year)

 

- F-Renault 2.0

 

6 races, 0 win, 0 pole, 0 fastest lap, 0 podiums, 13° overall

 

 

2009

 

-  F-Renault 2.0

 

14 races, 3 wins, 2 poles, 3 fastest lap, 9 podiums, 3° overall (2nd year)

 

- F-Renault Alps

 

14 races, 9 win, 4 pole, 7 fastest lap, 11 podiums, 1° overall (2nd year)

 

2010

 

- F3 Euro Series

 

18 races, 3 win, 0 pole, 1 fastest lap, 4 podiums, 7° overall (1st year)

 

- GP3 Series

 

4 races, 26° overall

 

- Macau GP

 

6° overall

 

2011

 

- GP3 Series

 

16 races, 1 win, 1 podium, 13° overall

 

- British F3

 

6 races, 1 fastest lap, 3 podiums, 13° overall

 

- Macau GP 

 

Did not finish

 

2012

 

- F-Renault 3.5

 

12 races, 4 wins, 2 poles, 6 podiums, 4° overall

 

- GP3 Series

 

16 races, 3 wins, 1 pole, 6 fastest laps, 6 podiums, 3° overall (2nd year)

 

- Macau GP

 

Winner (3° year)

 

2013

 

- F- Renault 3.5

 

Currently fifth in the championship, 1 win

 

 

 

 

 

Looking at his numbers, in almost five years, he only won a World Series 2.0 championship, while in his second year in the series. He never won a title in other formulas, loosing against the likes of Alexanders Sims and Daniel Abt.. 
 

Apart from a very good SECOND half of 2012, does he really have the curriculum to be considered as a F1 contender?

 

I am sure that guys like Robert Frijns, Kevin Magnussen, Stefan Vandoorne, Felipe Nasr and James Calado have already shown much more than the Portuguese..

 

What do you think? 

Edited by luispaulob, 04 September 2013 - 22:14.

[Frankbullitt]

Those numbers don't show well for him, I did always wonder why he had such high regard and always assumed that it was to due with his record, but seeing it now, I am baffled.

[noikeee]

Because he was glorious last year and if you asked anyone with a close eye on the ladder around last Winter, they'd have told you he was the most impressive driver at that moment outside F1. The GP2 field was a bit meh with the WSR field looking better and he was driving circles around the likes of Frijns, Bianchi, Bird, Magnussen etc having joined mid-season.

 

I agree he shown nothing like it before, and hasn't kept that level this year. He's had a few bad luck incidents but overall disregarding that, has been 1 or 2 tenths/lap below Magnussen and Vandoorne pace-wise, which is alright but not world beater pace anymore. Whether he can replicate that form again, and at F1 level, is anyone's guess.

 

I think he has the talent but may lack the brutal, ruthless mental strength to make it at world class level, which is what you need to be a F1 champion. I think this season has been a showing of crumbling a little bit under the pressure. His comments to the press have sounded negative as hell and very harsh on himself.

[luispaulob]

Helmut Marko should be thinking about which da Costa he will hire for Toro Rosso, the one from mid 2012, or the other one who has only a F-Renault under his belt..

[noikeee]

On a entirely random and amusing note, I'm about to do my first ever iRacing oval race... at the same time Felix da Costa is doing his as well. I'll let you know how badly it went (for me). He was quite quick on practice. 

 

edit - we were on different splits, didn't go well for neither, I ended 10th out of 15, 2 laps down; AFdC was way quicker but got loads of incidents on the first lap then disconnected later lol.

Edited by noikeee, 07 September 2013 - 19:30.

[Anderis]

I've had some simillar thoughts to those in the opening post for some time. His achievements don't really set the world on fire. He was impressive at some point of last season, but excluding that, I would've never thought he deserves a status of future F1 star and I still consider Frijns, Vandoorne and Magnussen all as better prospects than him. (don't mention Sirotkin because I don't want to be controversial ). As a team boss, I would've never chosen him without sponsorship backing with the knowledge I currently have. Perhaps he would be far of being the worst F1 driver in the last few years, but I see better prospects that I would prefer to make it into F1 before him until he proves me wrong and shows something extraordinary in the near future.

[Snic]

On a entirely random and amusing note, I'm about to do my first ever iRacing oval race... at the same time Felix da Costa is doing his as well. I'll let you know how badly it went (for me). He was quite quick on practice. 

 

edit - we were on different splits, didn't go well for neither, I ended 10th out of 15, 2 laps down; AFdC was way quicker but got loads of incidents on the first lap then disconnected later lol.

 

Don't blame him, Rookie class on the ovals is pure unadulterated chaos 

 

Any idea what Magnussen is going to be doing next season?

[Bloggsworth]

He's gone off the boil - Talent like his should be grabbed and stuffed in the hot-seat. This year he has been mediocre in a mediocre formula. I think he's missed the boat.

[Hans V]

Magnussen will do F1 with Marussia, placed there by McLaren. He will replace Bianchi, who goes to Sauber with a Ferrari-engine discount.

[Group B]

Magnussen will do F1 with Marussia, placed there by McLaren. He will replace Bianchi, who goes to Sauber with a Ferrari-engine discount.

With Hulkenberg going where?

[ensign14]

Ferrari?

[Group B]

Must be a possibility. Perhaps Fred really is hitting the beach and Nico is joining Kimi in red; a combination I can imagine being pretty effictive.

[DutchQuicksilver]

Must be a possibility. Perhaps Fred really is hitting the beach and Nico is joining Kimi in red; a combination I can imagine being pretty effictive.

Off topic, but why does everyone call Fernando Alonso, Fred?

[ensign14]

Because of his brilliant version of "I'm Too Sexy" on the karaoke.

[scheivlak]

Off topic, but why does everyone call Fernando Alonso, Fred?

It was a pet name chosen by the American commentator buddies (Hobbs & Matchett - Speed Channel) when he started to shine in 2003.

Edited by scheivlak, 07 September 2013 - 22:56.

[cleobis]

2003 Formula BMW ADAC Eifelland Racing 19 5 5 4 12 216 2nd
2004 Formula BMW ADAC ADAC Berlin-Brandenburg 20 18 14 13 20 387 1st
2005 Formula 3 Euro Series ASL Mücke Motorsport. 20 0 0 1 6 57 5th
Masters of Formula 3 1 0 0 0 0 N/A 11th
Spanish Formula Three Championship Racing Engineering 1 0 0 0 1 8 15th
Macau Grand Prix ASM F3 1 0 0 0 1 N/A 3rd
Formula One BMW Williams F1 Team Test driver
2006 Formula 3 Euro Series ASM Formule 3 20 4 1 5 9 75 2nd
Masters of Formula 3 1 0 0 0 0 N/A 6th
Formula Renault 3.5 Series Carlin Motorsport 3 1 1 0 2 28 15th
Macau Grand Prix 1 0 0 0 0 N/A 23rd
Formula One BMW Sauber F1 Team Test driver
2007 Formula Renault 3.5 Series Carlin Motorsport 7 1 1 1 4 74 5th
Formula One BMW Sauber F1 Team. 1 0 0 0 0 6 14th
Scuderia Toro Rosso 7 0 0 0 0


This is Vettel record prior to F1. First column is races, second is victories and last is the championship position at the end of the year... It's not exactly brilliant, is it? Ok but nothing more...you have to remember Antonio rarely had the fastest car or team in his career...he lost the formula Renault due to some technicality that got him dsq from a couple of races otherwise he would have won the NEC and Renault 2.0 the same year...in F3 his car simply had no pace to win and his three wins came from outhinking his rivals on strategy...meaning, doing the first race to position himself in a good place to try and win the second....which he did three times in his rookie year.....the only year I think he should have done better was his first in gp3 but apart from that he has always driven very well and is a very mature driver...just ask red bull sim guys....this year the Arden team just has been having a lot of problems with the car that have made him not get the results he should and also bad luck... A puncture in the first race in Monza when he was catching vandoorme and should have won and again a mechanical problem in Russia ( I think it was Russia) The team themselves have assured Marko that the problem has not been Antonio....just look at his team mate...this year and last....he is far above what either of them accomplished...

Anyway... I hope and think he will be in the toro Rosso next year. Then we will see how good he really is....

Edited by cleobis, 08 September 2013 - 04:53.

[Petroltorque]

^{Da Costa has risen without a trace. He would be chewed up in the meat grinder Her Marko operates at STR.}

Edited by Petroltorque, 08 September 2013 - 15:00.

[gluon]

Ant Felix da Costa showed today why he is not overrated. He won the second race at Hungaroring by staying out a couple more laps than the two drivers running ahead of him. During these two in laps he purpled the times in a style resembling Schumacher and after his pitstop he came out in front of Magnussen and Vandoorne. The final stint was all about not only managing his gap but increasing it steadly fastest lap after fastest lap resembling Vettel.

 

As some people already mentioned above, he's been very unlucky this season with many problems related to the car or team robbing him of good performances, but whenever the car and team are up there, he delivers awesome performances similar to all his wins of 2012.

 

My point is that numbers don't always show the true talent of a driver. Often it's the way how a driver reacts to difficult situations and pressure delivering race wins that impresses F1 team bosses. That was undoubtedly the case with Vettel, whose statistics prior to F1 were coincidently very similar to Da Costa's.

 

I'm sure Red Bull and Toro Rosso know pretty well when Ant has suffered from bad luck or the team let him down and how awesome his performances have been when it was all up to him to deliver. That might obviously not be enough, nevertheless even his number one opponent to a race seat in F1 (Carlos Sainz Jr.) congratulated him on his amazing win today and acknowledged he deserves it.

[Thomas99]

One win doesn't really mean a lot.

 

Daniel Ricciardo and Jean Eric Vergne both challenged for the FR3.5 title in their first full season. Ricciardo only failing to claim the title due to one not at fault collision at Silverstone.

 

I think if Da Costa went to Toro Rosso Vergne would easily outperform him.

[Thomas99]

This is Vettel record prior to F1. First column is races, second is victories and last is the championship position at the end of the year... It's not exactly brilliant, is it?

 

 

We still don't really know how good Vettel is. We know he's better than Bordais and Webber. Thats it really.

 

Although in Seb's favor he dominated Formula BMW, winning nearly every race and was leading FR3.5 when he left to F1.

Edited by Thomas99, 16 September 2013 - 01:15.

[lbennie]

We still don't really know how good Vettel is. We know he's better than Bordais and Webber. Thats it really.

 

Although in Seb's favor he dominated Formula BMW, winning nearly every race and was leading FR3.5 when he left to F1.

 

Don't be silly, He's already one of the greats.

The whole circular, this driver beat this driver who beat this driver so he must be this good, analysis is just fanboy yin-yang.

 

What it does show is that talent doesn't always equal results until is has been nurtured and polished properly imo.

[Andrew Hope]

Should've just stuck with Alguersuari and Buemi who would both be excellent now.

[lbennie]

Should've just stuck with Alguersuari and Buemi who would both be excellent now.

 

Neither had the raw potential of either RIC or VER according to RB engineers.

 

They would have ended up as solid midfielders imo.

[apoka]

We still don't really know how good Vettel is. We know he's better than Bordais and Webber. Thats it really.

 

Although in Seb's favor he dominated Formula BMW, winning nearly every race and was leading FR3.5 when he left to F1.

 

A summary of his early career is here: http://en.wikipedia....el#Early_career As you said, the above stats need cleaning up - without taking part in full championships, it is obviously hard to win it. Except doing too many things at once, he had a very good junior career.

[Thomas99]

A summary of his early career is here: http://en.wikipedia....el#Early_career As you said, the above stats need cleaning up - without taking part in full championships, it is obviously hard to win it. Except doing too many things at once, he had a very good junior career.

 

Seb/s early career was imo slightly weaker than both Ricciardo and Vergne. But the clear potential was there even without the ultimate results. Its not like he was anonymous pre f1, he was clearly exceptional. But so were the current Toro Rosso pair. 

 

Da Costa, i'm undecided on.

[Disgrace]

Ant Felix da Costa showed today why he is not overrated. He won the second race at Hungaroring by staying out a couple more laps than the two drivers running ahead of him. During these two in laps he purpled the times in a style resembling Schumacher and after his pitstop he came out in front of Magnussen and Vandoorne. The final stint was all about not only managing his gap but increasing it steadly fastest lap after fastest lap resembling Vettel.

 

...

 

Although I don't think it was that impressive, the thought had occurred to me. However, it's a skill not required in modern F1 anymore.

[Zava]

Although I don't think it was that impressive, the thought had occurred to me. However, it's a skill not required in modern F1 anymore.

is it not? 

it reminded me of another driver, on the same track, last year, setting purples on ~25 lap old pirellis, to jump from around 4-5th to second.  the overcut works sometimes, when tyre deg is not that bad - and don't forget, next year's tyres are said to be normal, durable tyres, not made of cheese.

 

Thomas: da Costa was less than a win away from winning the championship in his first year, despite racing for a rookie team, and missing the first 5 races. I think that's damn impressive as it is...

[sopa]

Based on the second half of 2012 da Costa was hyped up as a future F1 WDC, but let's be honest here. He has to show much more to convince he is going to be anywhere near F1 frontrunners. On F1 level the top guys have 10 or more years performance consistency at the highest level, allowing only an odd exception in (Kimi 2008, Lewis 2011).

[dau]

One win doesn't really mean a lot.

 

Daniel Ricciardo and Jean Eric Vergne both challenged for the FR3.5 title in their first full season. Ricciardo only failing to claim the title due to one not at fault collision at Silverstone.

 

I think if Da Costa went to Toro Rosso Vergne would easily outperform him.

Of course he would. He has two years experience in that car, for God's sake. Anything other than him outperforming the rookie would be a disaster for Vergne.

 

RIC and VER challenged for the title in their first season, yea. But so did Felix Da Costa last year, finishing only 23pts behind the champion even though he had missed 5 races. Had most wins of all competitors as well. And that was against everybody's darling  and next F1 champion Frijns, plus Bianchi, Sorensen, Magnussen and Bird. Ricciardo lost against Mikhail Aleshin and would have also finished behind Guerrieri, had Esteban had the money for a full season. The rest of the top finishers that year? Sten Pentus, Albert Costa, Stefano Coletti. Two of those don't seem to be even racing anymore, while the third is currently busy throwing away a GP2 championship in his third season. Oh, and maybe you remember Ricciardo's second season in FR3.5? Because i'm pretty sure he'd rather not.

 

And what's with the statistics in the OP anyway? So he finished only 13th in 2008 FR2.0? 26th in 2010 GP3? Wow, that guy must really suck. Competing in 4 out of 16 races should be more than enough to challenge for the title if you have any talent at all. He's obviously hopeless. Next!

Edited by dau, 16 September 2013 - 10:12.

[noikeee]

I think yesterday's performance was just about enough to clinch his promotion to F1 next year. I agree there's still question marks over his ability/potential, but he benefits from having joined Red Bull at the right time - they don't have anyone anywhere near ready for promotion apart from him. And he's surely done enough to deserve being given a go, he may not have a title to his name but has impressed enough in his current category showing himself to be the driver to beat at times, and was not useless in other categories.

 

Vergne will not be an easy team-mate indeed, my biggest concern is that Vergne is not properly recognized in F1 so any difficulties against him will kill António's reputation instantly. The new regs particularly the turbo engines makes it even more of an unknown as to who will adapt the better, I suppose it may come down to who's smoother with the throttle. Both drivers have had some of their finest moments in the wet so I think both should do well there. Race pace Vergne is known to be very strong there, but this can also be one of António's strengths as he shown just yesterday leapfrogging opponents through steady laps when it mattered. Vergne's weak spot has been qualifying, he's had many shockers there since he has arrived to F1, and whilst I don't think António is a particularly outstanding qualifier neither this is where he can profit the most if he wants to win this battle. If he gets qualifying right he'll instantly impress - but if he starts the races behind Vergne things will be extremely difficult.

 

My other concern is that even if he does well against Vergne, there's not a clear career path for STR drivers anymore. Unless Vettel flees to Ferrari or Mercedes in 2 years time, or Ricciardo underperforms badly, the main team's lineup is locked in. So he may hit a brickwall unless he performs at a truly remarkable level. But that's a few steps further in the future - at the moment he's not even confirmed as a Toro Rosso driver yet. Becoming a decent midfielder for Toro Rosso is enough of a goal anyway, that would probably make him the greatest Portuguese F1 driver by default, previous contenders like Lamy and Monteiro rarely having made past backmarker status.

[Thomas99]

Of course he would. He has two years experience in that car, for God's sake. Anything other than him outperforming the rookie would be a disaster for Vergne.

 

RIC and VER challenged for the title in their first season, yea. But so did Felix Da Costa last year, finishing only 23pts behind the champion even though he had missed 5 races. Had most wins of all competitors as well. And that was against everybody's darling  and next F1 champion Frijns, plus Bianchi, Sorensen, Magnussen and Bird. Ricciardo lost against Mikhail Aleshin and would have also finished behind Guerrieri, had Esteban had the money for a full season. The rest of the top finishers that year? Sten Pentus, Albert Costa, Stefano Coletti. Two of those don't seem to be even racing anymore, while the third is currently busy throwing away a GP2 championship in his third season. Oh, and maybe you remember Ricciardo's second season in FR3.5? Because i'm pretty sure he'd rather not.

 

And what's with the statistics in the OP anyway? So he finished only 13th in 2008 FR2.0? 26th in 2010 GP3? Wow, that guy must really suck. Competing in 4 out of 16 races should be more than enough to challenge for the title if you have any talent at all. He's obviously hopeless. Next!

 

Ricciardo's 2nd year in FR3.5 was in a car far far inferior to the Carlin's of the time. I'm not going to look it up but i'm fairly sure Da Costa drove a Carlin when he was thrusted into FR3.5 for half a year didn't he? That team really is the Red Bull of FR. Ricciardo drove for Tech 1 and ISR, against a driver who had 4 years experience in a Carlin car, yet had the title taken from him at Silverstone through no fault of his own.

 

Ricciardo's second year in the sport, getting constant podiums despite having a car not really up to the task was impressive. He was incredibly consistent at the front. Alonso-esq.

Edited by Thomas99, 16 September 2013 - 11:07.

[Thomas99]

 

 

My other concern is that even if he does well against Vergne, there's not a clear career path for STR drivers anymore. Unless Vettel flees to Ferrari or Mercedes in 2 years time, or Ricciardo underperforms badly, the main team's lineup is locked in. So he may hit a brickwall unless he performs at a truly remarkable level. But that's a few steps further in the future - at the moment he's not even confirmed as a Toro Rosso driver yet. Becoming a decent midfielder for Toro Rosso is enough of a goal anyway, that would probably make him the greatest Portuguese F1 driver by default, previous contenders like Lamy and Monteiro rarely having made past backmarker status.

 

 

If he beats Vergne convincingly, out qualifying and out racing him by large margins constantly then he may get a shot at the top team in a few years after Ricciardo's 3 year deal is over. Assuming Ricciardo doesn't really perform, thats a big assumption.

 

Thats the thing though, if he doesn't then he'll struggle to get a promotion. Red Bull now have the perfect yardstick for comparing to Ricciardo in Vergne. They will also know how Vettel compares to Ricciardo. 

Edited by Thomas99, 16 September 2013 - 11:04.

[keiichi]

Ricciardo's 2nd year in FR3.5 was in a car far far inferior to the Carlin's of the time. I'm not going to look it up but i'm fairly sure Da Costa drove a Carlin when he was thrusted into FR3.5 for half a year didn't he? That team really is the Red Bull of FR. Ricciardo drove for Tech 1 and ISR, against a driver who had 4 years experience in a Carlin car, yet had the title taken from him at Silverstone through no fault of his own.

 

Ricciardo's second year in the sport, getting constant podiums despite having a car not really up to the task was impressive. He was incredibly consistent at the front. Alonso-esq.

 

He drove a Carlin in GP3. In FR he drove in the same team he's at the moment.

[Zava]

Ricciardo's 2nd year in FR3.5 was in a car far far inferior to the Carlin's of the time. I'm not going to look it up but i'm fairly sure Da Costa drove a Carlin when he was thrusted into FR3.5 for half a year didn't he? That team really is the Red Bull of FR. Ricciardo drove for Tech 1 and ISR, against a driver who had 4 years experience in a Carlin car, yet had the title taken from him at Silverstone through no fault of his own.

 

Ricciardo's second year in the sport, getting constant podiums despite having a car not really up to the task was impressive. He was incredibly consistent at the front. Alonso-esq.

you didn't even need to lok that up, just read post #27, where I wrote that da Costa drove for a rookie team last year (continued with them this year as well), namely Arden Caterham.

[Thomas99]

you didn't even need to lok that up, just read post #27, where I wrote that da Costa drove for a rookie team last year (continued with them this year as well), namely Arden Caterham.

 

Right. 

 

I assumed he had been at a more competitive team last year. Basically everyone who wins in FR3.5 seems to drive a Carlin of late. Considering the team and some of his luck then its not a bad performance at all this year. 

[GhostR]

You know, I think sometimes we get a bit bogged down in the pre-F1 stats of drivers. F1 history is littered with drivers who came into F1 as superstars, having won everything they drove pre-F1 ... and then flopped. Likewise, there are plenty of examples of drivers who made it to F1 with only 'adequate' or even, sometimes, quite underwhelming pre-F1 results who get into an F1 car and everything just clicks into place.

 

It dogged Webber's career (here on the forums, anyway) - his detractors , certainly in the early years, constantly pointing out how he'd never won a title before F1 and that other title-winning drivers were more deserving of Mark's seat. Always they ignored the deeper details of Mark's pre-F1 career. It was only after 2010 that this sort of talk really died down (and was replaced with the 'choker' argument ). 

 

On the flipside, you have a driver who came into F1 around the same time as Mark with a load of hype behind him and having won junior titles, who turned out to be not that brilliant in an F1 car. Pizzonia. Another recent example is Jan Magnussen at Stewart, who flopped big time.

 

Ultimately, you can't really judge whether a driver is going to be good in an F1 car until they actually drive, and race, an F1 car. So for me, I have a feeling that Felix could be a real handful for Vergne next year should the two be paired up. I based that on his testing results with STR/RBR rather than how he's done in the junior series. I think he's clearly got speed. The question will be whether or not he can translate that into qualifying and race results under the pressure of a race weekend. That's where the big difference between Ricciardo and Vergne (so far) has been. I'd argue Vergne was more impressive than Ricciardo pre-F1, however Ricciardo has edged it in the last two years.

[billm99uk]

You know, I think sometimes we get a bit bogged down in the pre-F1 stats of drivers.

 

You can, but it's a mistake to actually ignore it. Most of the F1 field have an impressive resume prior to F1 and a consistent record of wins at every level. Doesn't mean they'll suceed in F1 of course, as in many ways its a more complex and pressurised environment than junior single seaters and provides a whole new set of additional challenges. But you do at least need to have demonstrated some real speed, if not necessarily have won every championship you've competed in, You just need to analyse the situation a bit more deeply than that.

 

Re: da Costa he was probably overrated last year and underrated now. There's always been a little too much of "You're only as good as your last few races" in these matters.

[GhostR]

You can, but it's a mistake to actually ignore it. Most of the F1 field have an impressive resume prior to F1 and a consistent record of wins at every level. Doesn't mean they'll suceed in F1 of course, as in many ways its a more complex and pressurised environment than junior single seaters and provides a whole new set of additional challenges. But you do at least need to have demonstrated some real speed, if not necessarily have won every championship you've competed in, You just need to analyse the situation a bit more deeply than that.

 

Re: da Costa he was probably overrated last year and underrated now. There's always been a little too much of "You're only as good as your last few races" in these matters.

 

Which is why I'm not ignoring Da Costa's pre-F1 results. Or those of anyone else. The kid's clearly got talent, but might have a problem with consistency. That's what I take out of his results the last couple of years since he came across my radar. He's done enough, IMO, to get a shot at an STR seat. Sink or swim, his junior career is good enough to get his bum on a seat.

[automovelbrilhante]

I seem to remember the guy was seen as some kind of little prodigy in karting which you may check on wikipedia or whatnot.

His results in the lower formulae have been good, specially since he hasn't always been fed on a silver spoon as some of the names you mention. The 2010-2011 campaigns may have not been brilliant but weren't too shabby either, and he must have learned something then. I won't take you seriously if you mention sporadic appearances in a few series, which have been pretty decent btw. 

I think the grit, the raw diamond, has always been there, and people in the know must have taken notice of what they saw. 

[billm99uk]

I think the grit, the raw diamond, has always been there, and people in the know must have taken notice of what they saw.

Well, personally I quite liked the bump drafting at Monza ;)

[luispaulob]

Personnaly, I think da Costa is 2nd league to drivers like Frijns, Nasr, Bird, Evans, Calado, Lancaster and Vandoorne

[dau]

Personnaly, I think da Costa is 2nd league to drivers like Frijns, Nasr, Bird, Evans, Calado, Lancaster and Vandoorne

Wait, what? Lancaster? Jon Lancaster? The guy who will always be remembered for the worst start from pole ever in the history of motor racing? Jon "Go on Jon" Lancaster? You can't be serious.

Ricciardo's 2nd year in FR3.5 was in a car far far inferior to the Carlin's of the time. I'm not going to look it up but i'm fairly sure Da Costa drove a Carlin when he was thrusted into FR3.5 for half a year didn't he? That team really is the Red Bull of FR. Ricciardo drove for Tech 1 and ISR, against a driver who had 4 years experience in a Carlin car, yet had the title taken from him at Silverstone through no fault of his own.

 

Ricciardo's second year in the sport, getting constant podiums despite having a car not really up to the task was impressive. He was incredibly consistent at the front. Alonso-esq.

Carlin the Red Bull of FR3.5? Really? 2010 was the first out of three times they won a title in 8 years of competing in that series and its predecessor. Tech 1 won the drivers championship in 2007 and the teams championship in 2007, 2008, 2010 and 2012. They're not that bad.

Edited by dau, 16 September 2013 - 18:52.

[SpartanChas]

2nd league to Lancaster? Ok.

I'd definitely put him in that toro Rosso next year and see how he does. It's not like red bull have anyone else ready to take the next step. He nearly won GP3 and FR3.5 last year, and had plenty of bad luck this year.

AFDC drove for Carlin in GP3 2012 but he drives for Arden Caterham in F, which was a new team last year.

Edited by SpartanChas, 16 September 2013 - 19:15.

[luispaulob]

2nd league to Lancaster? Ok.

I'd definitely put him in that toro Rosso next year and see how he does. It's not like red bull have anyone else ready to take the next step. He nearly won GP3 and FR3.5 last year, and had plenty of bad luck this year.

AFDC drove for Carlin in GP3 2012 but he drives for Arden Caterham in F, which was a new team last year.

Ok, I exagerated when I included Lancaster, even though he's surprised me this year in GP2..

 

But da Costa is still 2nd league to all the others, and you can't deny that

[ezequiel]

Ok, I exagerated when I included Lancaster, even though he's surprised me this year in GP2..

 

But da Costa is still 2nd league to all the others, and you can't deny that

Why would you be so sure about that? We know how he did last year compared to Frijns and Bird (and Bianchi) in FR 3.5 despite missing 5 races (and having less experience than the last two)

[Currahee]

I'm sure I saw him race at Knockhill a few years ago.

 

He stood out in his race. Head and shoulders above everyone.

 

I'm also sure he rolled his car.

[olliek88]

Why would you be so sure about that? We know how he did last year compared to Frijns and Bird (and Bianchi) in FR 3.5 despite missing 5 races (and having less experience than the last two)

 

Shaky argument there. Vandoorne has minimal experience but has more than given Ant more than a run for his money this year, its difficult to compare different situations. Ant had zero pressure on him in FR3.5 last year, the Arden was a struggling like crazy and he was a rookie, since the pressure has been on this year he's been far less impressive, clearly he's a fast driver but i'm not convinced, yet.

[billm99uk]

Why would you be so sure about that? We know how he did last year compared to Frijns and Bird (and Bianchi) in FR 3.5 despite missing 5 races (and having less experience than the last two)

 

True but it's less of a pressure situation than Frijns and Bianchi were in. He could go flat out every race. They had to be careful to finish. In fact he's in a comparable situation this season to what they were in last and we've seen the result. Still like to see what he could do in a Toro Rosso though.

[automovelbrilhante]

Ok, I exagerated when I included Lancaster, even though he's surprised me this year in GP2..

 

But da Costa is still 2nd league to all the others, and you can't deny that

I bet you're a (Brasilian) fanboy of Felipe Nasr, and there's nothing wrong with that, but your mission here is simply mud slinging in hopes that Helmut Marko might hear you.

The problem is, you should make a case for your guy instead.

Da Costa has beaten Nasr in Macau last year, for instance. Nasr is not bad at all, rich kid and all, but I very very seriously doubt he's any better than da Costa.  

Two years in GP2 and how many wins, poles and fastest laps does he have?  Less than half the points of his teammate in his first year. 9 podiums in 42 starts.

[luispaulob]

Why would you be so sure about that? We know how he did last year compared to Frijns and Bird (and Bianchi) in FR 3.5 despite missing 5 races (and having less experience than the last two)

Because the career of all of those are full of titles and race victories.. Not only 6 months of impressive driving..