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Monza 2013: FP1, FP2, FP3 AND Qualifying


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#101 Tron

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 13:56

 

Good luck.  :D

We shall see. I'd be only glad if I'm not right. Mercedes poles are boring me to death already. 

 

 

A Kimi pole would be more interesting before the Tifosi's eyes. :clap:



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#102 mangeliiito

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 14:03

Seriously guys, in the last races Mercedes have been quick out box and then put on as much sand as they can carry.

If they aren't in the fight for pole and Ham grabbing it I will eat a hat!

#103 rasul

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 14:03

A Kimi pole would be more interesting before the Tifosi's eyes. :clap:

It would be certainly interesting to see their reaction. I expect Vettel and Hamilton to get booed, but Kimi - not sure.



#104 Holdenboy

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 14:05

Unfortunately, I would have to disagree with you here. Vettel is going to take P1 tomorrow. I have a lot of money riding on that!  :D

 

Using history to predict the future here, then i will have to say if you had laid down a bet in 7 of the last 8 races you would be broke by now.



#105 Tron

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 14:07

It would be certainly interesting to see their reaction. I expect Vettel and Hamilton to get booed, but Kimi - not sure.

 

Funny that Lewis would get booed on the Italian track, while on the comments section of Gazzetta and Autosprint, there's immense love for him...

But then again, it's all about passion on the track.



#106 Seanspeed

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 14:22

Regardless of who takes pole, looking at the FP2 long runs, Vettel seems to be a light-year ahead of anyone else. 

 

Jesus.



#107 krobinson

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 14:27

Another easy race for Red Bull. They should at least try to make it interesting and put someone like Chilton in the car, but even he would probably dominate in that car.

Sad.



#108 eronrules

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 14:30

anyone has any photos of 'kimi on pole' banner beside a Ferrari flag at the start finish grand stand today??? 



#109 Seanspeed

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 14:30

Another easy race for Red Bull. They should at least try to make it interesting and put someone like Chilton in the car, but even he would probably dominate in that car.

Sad.

You do realize that there's already a 2nd Red Bull driver, right? 

 

This guy named Webber.  Mark Webber.  Good bloke.  Not a slouch, either.



#110 Miggeex

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 14:31

Vettel must've had much less fuel than others. You just won't find that big difference on tracks like Monza where the differences are very marginal anyway. Doing 27s when some others are in 29s or 30s is not realistic in Monza with same fuel.


Edited by Miggeex, 06 September 2013 - 14:32.


#111 Tron

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 14:34

Vettel must've had much less fuel than others. You just won't find that big difference on tracks like Monza where the differences are very marginal anyway. Doing 27s when some others are in 29s or 30s is not realistic in Monza with same fuel.

 

He was cracking it like this in the practice of various previous races... and it proved to be his race pace.



#112 HopkinsonF1

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 14:36

Funny that Lewis would get booed on the Italian track, while on the comments section of Gazzetta and Autosprint, there's immense love for him...

But then again, it's all about passion on the track.

Look at how much the tifosi loved our Nige – given that Lewis is basically Nige 2.0, it doesn't surprise me that there's a lot of support for him over there.



#113 milestone 11

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 14:38

Very cool images of the thermal camera showing the heat in the tyres.

I wondered if British TV had those images. They certainly showed quite a lot of it on Spanish in P2. Very impressive.


Edited by milestone 11, 06 September 2013 - 14:42.


#114 mlsnoopy

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 14:52

RedBull again a rocketship.



#115 anti

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 14:52

Practice 2:  :: Sector times :: Lap Chart
 



#116 Boxerevo

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 14:58

Funny that Lewis would get booed on the Italian track, while on the comments section of Gazzetta and Autosprint, there's immense love for him...

But then again, it's all about passion on the track.

Exactly the same situation here in brazil,i feel lewis have too many television\forums fans and less in the track days,but anyway Ferrari fans are a massive number in Interlagos.



#117 peroa

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 15:05

RedBull again a rocketship.

Well, after Canada and Spa there wasn't much else to expect.

They addressed their "weakness" and ironed it out.



#118 Holdenboy

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 15:08

He was cracking it like this in the practice of various previous races... and it proved to be his race pace.

 

its possible but then again the Mercs , Ferrari's and Lotus were on about the same pace as the Bull of Mark webber. I don't think that vettel is that much faster than Webbo in the same car (at least on long run pace).  so something is certainly not right. either Mark ran more fuel or Vettel ran less but when you compare the pace of Marks car with the ferrari and Merc it was very comparable


Edited by Holdenboy, 06 September 2013 - 15:10.


#119 SpartanChas

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 15:11

Dont know where to post this where itll be read. Anyone know if I need stazione centrale or garibaldi to get the train to the track on sunday pm me please?

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#120 Seanspeed

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 15:11

its possible but then again the Mercs , Ferrari's and Lotus were on about the same pace as the Bull of Mark webber. I don't think that vettel is that much faster than Webbo in the same car (at least on long run pace).  so something is certainly not right. either Mark ran more fuel or Vettel ran less but when you compare the pace of Marks car with the ferrari and Merc it was very comparable

Vettel has been much quicker than Webber on many a weekend.  I don't see any reason to think the pace wasn't representative other than wishful thinking.



#121 PNSD

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 15:13

The Mclaren's seem 3-4 tenths behind Alonso, 2-3 behind the two Lotus cars and about on par with Mercedes.

Even if the win will be a boring race, behind it should be exciting. Perez looking particularly handy here.



#122 Holdenboy

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 15:14

Vettel has been much quicker than Webber on many a weekend.  I don't see any reason to think the pace wasn't representative other than wishful thinking.

 

Well tomorrow is not too far down the line for us to find out. its just that the last 7 or 8 weekends there was always this conversation about vettel being tipped for pole after Friday practice and then on saturday afternoon the mercs just step out of the shadows. and ....well you know the rest



#123 HeadFirst

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 15:16

I wondered if British TV had those images. They certainly showed quite a lot of it on Spanish in P2. Very impressive.

We get the Brit coverage here in Canuckistan, and yes we got those images. Impressive indeed.



#124 Seanspeed

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 15:19

Well tomorrow is not too far down the line for us to find out. its just that the last 7 or 8 weekends there was always this conversation about vettel being tipped for pole after Friday practice and then on saturday afternoon the mercs just step out of the shadows. and ....well you know the rest

I think that's mainly down to Mercedes tending to sandbag a bit in practice when it comes to ultimate pace.

 

But we're talking about race pace, not one lap pace, weren't we?


Edited by Seanspeed, 06 September 2013 - 15:22.


#125 race addicted

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 15:19

The Mclaren's seem 3-4 tenths behind Alonso, 2-3 behind the two Lotus cars and about on par with Mercedes.

Even if the win will be a boring race, behind it should be exciting. Perez looking particularly handy here.

Seems about right although Mercedes are always quicker on Sunday's compared to Fridays, relatively speaking.



#126 1Devil1

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 15:29

Another easy race for Red Bull. They should at least try to make it interesting and put someone like Chilton in the car, but even he would probably dominate in that car.

Sad.

 

Max Chilton better than Mark Webber  :lol:



#127 Holdenboy

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 15:33

I think that's mainly down to Mercedes tending to sandbag a bit in practice when it comes to ultimate pace.

 

But we're talking about race pace, not one lap pace, weren't we?

 

Actually both. I sometimes look at the race pace to try to judge where their 1 lap pace might be to see if I can identify those that might possibly be sandbagging. so judging by vettel doing a 1:27's it will suggest that his quali time will be in the 1.21's - low 1.22 as the difference is usally about 5.5 - 6 secs if my memory serves me correctly.

 

Pole time last year was 1.24.010 that will mean the redbull would have shaved off 2.5-3 sec of last years pole if we look at it that way. Now I know its not an exact science and conditions tyres and all differ but that would be something and I really do doubt that.  Hope am making sense , cos am pretty sure it sounds like am rambling...but there's a point in whhat am trying to say just hope you can see it.



#128 peroa

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 15:33

Dont know where to post this where itll be read. Anyone know if I need stazione centrale or garibaldi to get the train to the track on sunday pm me please?

I wouldn't know, but I'll be there too...

:wave:



#129 sportyskells

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 15:36

I wonder why is FIA taking thier time checking to see the Massa jump light issue?



#130 rasul

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 15:37

Funny that Lewis would get booed on the Italian track, while on the comments section of Gazzetta and Autosprint, there's immense love for him...

But then again, it's all about passion on the track.

I don't know about it. I've never noticed a particular love for Lewis in Italy. 



#131 Clatter

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 15:43

I wondered if British TV had those images. They certainly showed quite a lot of it on Spanish in P2. Very impressive.

Everyone gets the same broadcast.



#132 Clatter

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 15:45

Look at how much the tifosi loved our Nige – given that Lewis is basically Nige 2.0, it doesn't surprise me that there's a lot of support for him over there.

 

That only happened after he joined Ferrari and mainly because he managed a win in his first race in a car that wasn't expected to last the race.



#133 Moosed

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 15:46

You do realize that there's already a 2nd Red Bull driver, right? 

 

This guy named Webber.  Mark Webber.  Good bloke.  Not a slouch, either.

He's no slouch but he's 37 and well past his peak.



#134 JHSingo

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 15:46

It's cool to see FOM trying new things, but they never seem to use them much in the race, which is a shame. I can't recall them using helmet cam in race conditions much.

 

I think they should definitely look at using those on-board rotating cameras IndyCar etc use.



#135 Clatter

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 15:47

I wonder why is FIA taking thier time checking to see the Massa jump light issue?

 

Is it still being investigated? 



#136 Seanspeed

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 15:47

Actually both. I sometimes look at the race pace to try to judge where their 1 lap pace might be to see if I can identify those that might possibly be sandbagging. so judging by vettel doing a 1:27's it will suggest that his quali time will be in the 1.21's - low 1.22 as the difference is usally about 5.5 - 6 secs if my memory serves me correctly.

 

Pole time last year was 1.24.010 that will mean the redbull would have shaved off 2.5-3 sec of last years pole if we look at it that way. Now I know its not an exact science and conditions tyres and all differ but that would be something and I really do doubt that.  Hope am making sense , cos am pretty sure it sounds like am rambling...but there's a point in whhat am trying to say just hope you can see it.

The difference between one lap pace and topped-up-on-fuel pace depends on the track.  It can be as low as 4-5 seconds and as high as 9 seconds. 

 

The cars certainly aren't 2-3 seconds faster than last year.

 

Also, Vettel's initial stint was in the 28's. He didn't get down into the 27's til after 14 laps and pitting and coming in for different tires.


Edited by Seanspeed, 06 September 2013 - 15:50.


#137 Seanspeed

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 15:47

He's no slouch but he's 37 and well past his peak.

The guy said that even Chilton would dominate in that car. 

 

Surely you can see where my comment was coming from....



#138 vista

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 16:00

Practice 2:  :: Sector times :: Lap Chart
 

 

Looking at long runs at the lap chart Vettel is the only one doing 27's and kimi and webber is probably the best of the rest. Most at least 1 sec slower than vettel on long runs.



#139 vista

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 16:09

Hembery from formula1.com: "From what we can see so far, degradation and wear are at the levels we anticipated, with a performance gap of around a second between the two compounds"

 

What is he talking about? There was about three tenths between the compounds for most people except vettel who was about six tenths faster on mediums. Hembery expects 2 stops but I think it will be a one stopper (at least for lotus).



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#140 SamH123

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 16:27

Vettel went Hards then Mediums

 

I'm not sure what the point of running Hards with a 1st stint fuel load is, but it seems he did.  He was running 27s when he came out for his 2nd stint on his (fairly new) mediums.

Quoting 27s for Vettel is hence kind of irrelevant because Alo/Web/Ham didn't get to that stage where they boxed for Mediums having burnt off fuel.

 

RB did look the fastest though over a long stint, with Webber's edging Alonso



#141 Seanspeed

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 16:49

Vettel went Hards then Mediums

 

I'm not sure what the point of running Hards with a 1st stint fuel load is, but it seems he did.  He was running 27s when he came out for his 2nd stint on his (fairly new) mediums.

Quoting 27s for Vettel is hence kind of irrelevant because Alo/Web/Ham didn't get to that stage where they boxed for Mediums having burnt off fuel.

 

RB did look the fastest though over a long stint, with Webber's edging Alonso

Surely the fact that his first stint was in the 28's on hard tires is even scarier then, right?



#142 nosecone

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 16:57

All cars in the top 4 are powered by Renault.

 

Hell, why did the FiA allow Renault to develope their engine years ago when it was frozen. And only because Renault threated with withdrawing

 

http://www.autoevolu...gine-18289.html

 

 

I'm not afraid of a Renault dominance but i would enjoy if there is one track which doesn't suit RB. :p Sorry RB-Fans


Edited by nosecone, 06 September 2013 - 16:59.


#143 Tron

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 17:06

I don't know about it. I've never noticed a particular love for Lewis in Italy. 

 

Well, I'm addicted to the mentioned sites, so I see it regularly there, and from time and trips in Italy, as well with my circle of friends and family in Italy, eventhough we're Italian and pro-Ferrari, we like Lewis, and would like one day to see him in Ferrari. :blush:

Even at my Ferrari club where I'm presently at here in South Africa, we value him, and want his yellow helmet in a red car.

His talent is unquestionable, and my dream team is Vettel with Lewis.


Edited by Tron, 06 September 2013 - 17:09.


#144 rasul

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 17:29

Well, I'm addicted to the mentioned sites, so I see it regularly there, and from time and trips in Italy, as well with my circle of friends and family in Italy, eventhough we're Italian and pro-Ferrari, okay I'm also half French, we like Lewis, and would like one day to see him in Ferrari. :blush:

Even at my Ferrari club where I'm presently at here in South Africa, we value him, and want his yellow helmet in a red car.

His talent is unquestionable, and my dream team is Vettel with Lewis.

I like Lewis a lot, too, but as much as I'd like to see him driving a Ferrari, I'm pretty sure it will never happen. Ferrari never expressed  interest in him, and LdM even used some lame reason about Lewis having been in too many teams  when he was asked why he'd choose Vettel over Lewis.  (And he conveniently forgot that Vettel drove for 2 teams in his career too, and that Ferrari is Alonso's fourth team :lol:  ). 

Vettel in red - I can see it, and it will likely happen one day. 



#145 SamH123

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 17:44

Surely the fact that his first stint was in the 28's on hard tires is even scarier then, right?

 

Well yeah possibly, but it's 6tenths+ quicker than Webber's on mediums which makes me think you can't really compare the stints.  for e.g. Maybe on hards he could thrash the tires more than those on Mediums



#146 stulbenis

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 18:29

was Webbo kers fixed for those stints ? that would explain 0,6 gap



#147 GX390

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 18:36

Decent job by Calado  :up:



#148 vista

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 18:56

All cars in the top 4 are powered by Renault.

 

Hell, why did the FiA allow Renault to develope their engine years ago when it was frozen. And only because Renault threated with withdrawing

 

http://www.autoevolu...gine-18289.html

 

 

I'm not afraid of a Renault dominance but i would enjoy if there is one track which doesn't suit RB. :p Sorry RB-Fans

 

Once again Red Bull is lobbying for an advantage and they got the advantage. Now it seems the engines is the 'performance differentiator' with Renault as the best engine. 



#149 g1n

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 19:01

Once again Red Bull is lobbying for an advantage and they got the advantage.

All the teams do this, although the top ones have more weight to throw around.



#150 sv401

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 19:04

Once again Red Bull is lobbying for an advantage and they got the advantage. Now it seems the engines is the 'performance differentiator' with Renault as the best engine. 

 

The article linked by nosecone is more than 3 years old. It does not look like the "equalization" helped Renault engined teams a lot in 2010 and 2012. Whether they are competitive this season, it will be found out on Sunday. Free practice times (including long stints) are not a reliable indicator of performance.