506 replies to this topic

[Forma1]

I was just shocked by RB's speed around Monza. It used to be a track where they were suffering bar 2011. Now they are a bit down on top speed, but have a tremendoues pace through Ascari and parabolcia, not to mention their traction.

 

FOr me it just makes the sport boring. Whatever Webber or Vettel do, they are at the front. Fernando and Lewis (on my list the best drivers of the world) can drive their guts out, but Newey and Co beat them. It is also a harm -in my interpretation- for Vettel, i can't esteem his title as high as others.

[Massa]

Sorry but it is BS for me. I was happy when Ferrari was dominant. These days it's red Bull, we a have to accept it, Ferrari and others have just to do a better job, and it's very low to diminish Vettel title like that.

 

If it was Alonso in the Red Bull, you will say he is great etc...

Edited by Massa, 06 September 2013 - 13:08.

[Vesuvius]

why being shocked...this is what people ordered from pirelli when they wanted tyre structures to be changed...now you just have to live with that. Anyway it's still only friday and most likely mercedes will be close to pole tomorrow.Also give some credit to Vettel who is doing the best work from drivers...Webber is again no where near.

Edited by Vesuvius, 06 September 2013 - 13:08.

[Zava]

no it doesn't make it boring. for entertainment, we either have close racing, or (in case red bull is dominating), your topics. 

[Seanspeed]

I think you get a little too worked up about this, Forma1.  Its not the first time you've started up a thread seemingly out of frustration.

 

Part of being a sports fan typically involves having to deal with things like this, where there might be a team/player that dominates.  Some people simply do a better job and you have to suck it up.  I don't see what use there is in complaining about it that much.  Sure, its annoying if you're not a fan of them, but what else can you do?  Stop watching?  Sure, if you want.  But the domination wont last forever.  The FIA have made efforts to reduce Red Bull's advantage with rule changes, just like they did with Ferrari back in the early 2000's.  I don't know what else to say? 

[Sin]

Ferrari dominated longer .... also let's wait for next year to see if Red Bull will still be dominating then... I got the feeling Mercedes might be the dominant team next year

[Zoetrope]

This sport is about constructing the best car. In the early days of motorsports (pre Formula One) I doubt people actually paid attention to driver's abilities. More to their courage and bravery. There were no feeder series. There were no driver's development program, no scouting. I might even dare to say some of the drivers were random.

And it always will be about building the fastest car. If you want fair sport, you should try athletics.

[TheUltimateWorrier]

Domination isn't harmful in sport until it gets to Loeb levels, imo. The things that harm Formula 1 more I think are controversies like Singapore 2008 which bring the sport into disrepute. 

[Tron]

It's not RB fault. It's up to the other teams to do a better job.

 

If anything, it's the other teams' incompetence that is making the sport suffer.

[Coops3]

It does in some senses. For example, I have a colleague who has got so bored of Vettel winning, he's recently stopped watching F1.

 

That's just how it goes though, you can't exactly blame Vettel and RB for winning.

[Seanspeed]

It's not RB fault. It's up to the other teams to do a better job.

 

If anything, it's the other teams' incompetence that is making the sport suffer.

Its one thing to say that Red Bull is doing a fantastic job. 

 

Another to say that other teams are incompetent.  Shows a complete lack of respect for what these guys do.

Edited by Seanspeed, 06 September 2013 - 13:24.

[bub]

Yes it harms a little bit.

[Wanderer]

I was just shocked by RB's speed around Monza. It used to be a track where they were suffering bar 2011. Now they are a bit down on top speed, but have a tremendoues pace through Ascari and parabolcia, not to mention their traction.

 

FOr me it just makes the sport boring. Whatever Webber or Vettel do, they are at the front. Fernando and Lewis (on my list the best drivers of the world) can drive their guts out, but Newey and Co beat them. It is also a harm -in my interpretation- for Vettel, i can't esteem his title as high as others.

 

And what's your suggestion?

[Dozer]

I voted yes, domination by any Team is bad for the sport imo...

[Shiroo]

I was just shocked by RB's speed around Monza. It used to be a track where they were suffering bar 2011. Now they are a bit down on top speed, but have a tremendoues pace through Ascari and parabolcia, not to mention their traction.

 

FOr me it just makes the sport boring. Whatever Webber or Vettel do, they are at the front. Fernando and Lewis (on my list the best drivers of the world) can drive their guts out, but Newey and Co beat them. It is also a harm -in my interpretation- for Vettel, i can't esteem his title as high as others.

 

Vettel is doing better job this year. And year ago as well. And in 2011.

People really give too much to the car.

 

Though RBR is simply better than the rest.

 

 

What is more shitty in whole situation, is the fact, that if it would be Hamilton and his team dominating most of this board would go all AH OH HOW SUPER HE IS, instead of creating such topics.

Edited by Shiroo, 06 September 2013 - 13:40.

[Tron]

Its one thing to say that Red Bull is doing a fantastic job. 

 

Another to say that other teams are incompetent.  Shows a complete lack of respect for what these guys do.

 

Lack of respect? About a sport that blows ga-billions for some millionaires to drive in circles while most of the world starves?

It's entertainment at the end, that's all it is, they're not miracle people nor the great minds in medical science, and yes, these teams are incompetent compared to RB's ongoing standards.

It's not lack of respect, it's fact by the results and by the money wasted to still be unable to match a team that doesn't even manufacture road cars.

 

Okay, moving on.

[Massa]

I voted yes, domination by any Team is bad for the sport imo...

 

Domination is part of the sport.

[Dunc]

The only season I'd say they have dominated is 2011.

 

In 2010, 2012 they have had to earn their championships.  Both of these went down to the last race of the season.

 

This year I don't expect it to go that way but Kimi, Ham, Rosberg and Alonso have all also won races.  More races this season have not been won by Red Bull than have, so far.

 

What's lacking, as others have said, is consistency from the other teams, hardly Red Bull's fault.

[Tron]

Vettel is doing better job this year.

 

Though RBR is simply better than the rest

 

 

[Forma1]

I am following bout 24 auto- and motorsport series, but F1 is still my favourite. I am 23 years old, have been watching for bout 15 years. Yeah, I can't hide I am massively frustrated by RB. I just disclose I managed to speak a bit with Seb in Hungary and spoke in German with them. Actually, I praised him. I massively respect him, but .... yeah, to be honest, I just lost that edge of nervousness I had a few years ago. I sat down in front of the telly and computer and was nervous like hell before a qualy or race. Now i don't get this feeling, cos it is always Vettel who runs away pretty easily with his dominant car. 

 

What would I like to have? A season with excitement. I loved the first 5 races this year. Kimi, Alonso, Vettel won the races while Mercedes dominated the qualies. There was a huge amount of excitement. From Canada Red Bull is always the fastest or the second fastest. Just fancy a criminal film where the murder is known from the first minute. Fancy a soccer game where the legs of one team's players are glued to the grass.

[ensign14]

RB dominance is not harmful for the sport; that's the nature of the sport.  It's up to others to raise their game.

 

What is harmful is not giving the number 2 a fair shake.  1988 is still one of the most memorable seasons even though McLaren won all bar 1 race because it was compelling between Prost and Senna.  2004 is still seen as a nadir because Ferrari had the game pretty much rigged.

 

There is another point about budget caps making things more interesting, there's not much sport when someone Chelseas their way to dominance through power of wallet rather than power of brain, but RB provide a good bang for buck return.

[Kelateboy]

I am absolutely loving it. 

 

Hopefully we have another 4 years of the same domination in the new 1.6L V6 era.

[Massa]

I am following bout 24 auto- and motorsport series, but F1 is still my favourite. I am 23 years old, have been watching for bout 15 years. Yeah, I can't hide I am massively frustrated by RB. I just disclose I managed to speak a bit with Seb in Hungary and spoke in German with them. Actually, I praised him. I massively respect him, but .... yeah, to be honest, I just lost that edge of nervousness I had a few years ago. I sat down in front of the telly and computer and was nervous like hell before a qualy or race. Now i don't get this feeling, cos it is always Vettel who runs away pretty easily with his dominant car. 

 

What would I like to have? A season with excitement. I loved the first 5 races this year. Kimi, Alonso, Vettel won the races while Mercedes dominated the qualies. There was a huge amount of excitement. From Canada Red Bull is always the fastest or the second fastest. Just fancy a criminal film where the murder is known from the first minute. Fancy a soccer game where the legs of one team's players are glued to the grass.

 

 

Colombo was a great serie

[Wanderer]

What would I like to have? 

 

No, not what you'd like to have. Everyone wants an exciting season obviously. I want to know what you think should be done, because you sound like you think something should be done. 

[Tron]

 2004 is still seen as a nadir because Ferrari had the game pretty much rigged.

 

Yip, so rigged, that the FIA and European court had that championship of theirs removed, and they were banned from the sport.

[Cyanide]

Its one thing to say that Red Bull is doing a fantastic job. 
 
Another to say that other teams are incompetent.  Shows a complete lack of respect for what these guys do.

Oh please, drop the melodrama. They get paid truckloads and are doing just fine without your respect.

Ferrari and McLaren are not living up to their reputation and prestige right now with their car design hiccups and silly mistakes. Red Bull have been a much better package overall these last few seasons, and it's exactly because of others' incompetence that they are securing 4 championships in a row. Yes, they are doing a fantastic job, but others are also doing a lower quality work than them.

[Massa]

Oh please, drop the melodrama. They get paid truckloads and are doing just fine without your respect.

Ferrari and McLaren are not living up to their reputation and prestige right now with their car design hiccups and silly mistakes. Red Bull have been a much better package overall these last few seasons, and it's exactly because of others' incompetence that they are securing 4 championships in a row. Yes, they are doing a fantastic job, but others are also doing a lower quality work than them.

 

 

It's not because Red Bull is better that others teams are incompetent.

[Tron]

Oh please, drop the melodrama. They get paid truckloads and are doing just fine without your respect.

Ferrari and McLaren are not living up to their reputation and prestige right now with their car design hiccups and silly mistakes. Red Bull have been a much better package overall these last few seasons, and it's exactly because of others' incompetence that they are securing 4 championships in a row. Yes, they are doing a fantastic job, but others are also doing a lower quality work than them.

 

Exactly. And RB stuck it out while others with greater budgets back peddled out of the sport... BMW, Toyota...

[sergeym]

Harm for sport - no, harm for show - maybe. By definition sport means that that the best team/driver wins. RB/Vettel combo is the best right now - so its perfectly normal that they dominate. 

[Tron]

It's not because Red Bull is better that others teams are incompetent.

 

Same rules for everyone, McLaren and Ferrari with more resources, yes, it's a case of RB being better for nudging 3 years of titles while the others keep on tripping on their incompetency.

[apoka]

I was just shocked by RB's speed around Monza. It used to be a track where they were suffering bar 2011. Now they are a bit down on top speed, but have a tremendoues pace through Ascari and parabolcia, not to mention their traction.

 

FOr me it just makes the sport boring. Whatever Webber or Vettel do, they are at the front. Fernando and Lewis (on my list the best drivers of the world) can drive their guts out, but Newey and Co beat them. It is also a harm -in my interpretation- for Vettel, i can't esteem his title as high as others.

 

"[RB dominating] ... [Fernando and Lewis are the best] ... [Newey & Co beat them]" - Whenever RB appear to dominate a weekend (or sometimes just an FP), we get lots of those posts. It's not like they have been dominating all year and the "whatever Webber does ... he is at the front" bit seems to be wrong - he is only 5th in WDC.

[Massa]

Same rules for everyone, McLaren and Ferrari with more resources, yes, it's a case of RB being better for nudging 3 years of titles while the others keep on tripping on their incompetency.

 

 

If Ferrari and Mclaren were incompetent, never Alonso could won the title in 2010 and last year, and those teams would have no palmares. The word incompetent is not accurate. Red Bull is better thats all. When Ferrari was dominant and Newey lost at Mclaren, he was incompetent ?

 

 

And i think Red Bull have more ressource than Mclaren.

Edited by Massa, 06 September 2013 - 14:10.

[rasul]

Another biased Forma1 thread. "Red Bull/Vettel harm F1," "Alonso's da best."

 

Same old, same old.

[Tron]

If Ferrari and Mclaren were incompetent, never Alonso could won the title in 2010 and last year, and those teams would have no palmares. The word incompetent is not accurate. Red Bull is better thats all. When Ferrari was dominant and Newey lost at Mclaren, he was incompetent ?

 

 

And i think Red Bull have more ressource than Mclaren.

 

In my view when looking at the whole Alonso and Ferrari partnership, to how they lost 2010, to the constant changes in design stuff, to the wind tunnel disaster, to starting this year with a good car and going backwards in development, by keeping Massa, to all their race blunders, yes, they've proven to be incompetent.

 

And lets not start with McLaren, fast car for the last 3 years, and no titles by their ongoing silly mistakes, and this year, their big year 1 without Lewis? Yip, incompetent.

And nope, research McLaren technology, those guys and their funding could design the next space shuttle.

[Massa]

In my view when looking at the whole Alonso and Ferrari partnership, to how they lost 2010, to the constant changes in design stuff, to the wind tunnel disaster, to starting this year with a good car and going backwards in development, by keeping Massa, to all their race blunders, yes, they've proven to be incompetent.

 

And lets not start with McLaren, fast car for the last 3 years, and no titles by their ongoing silly mistakes, and this year, their big year 1 without Lewis? Yip, incompetent.

And nope, research McLaren technology, those guys and their funding could design the next space shuttle.

 

 

So Red Bull is not so good to be champion only closely at the last race vs a incompetent team like Ferrari...

[PEW]

Yip, so rigged, that the FIA and European court had that championship of theirs removed, and they were banned from the sport.

What on earth    On what grounds were they banned?

[mnmracer]

Dominance

 

\

 

 

Whatever Webber or Vettel do, they are at the front.

 

Webber out in front in regards to Hamilton: 5

Hamilton out in front in regards to Webber: 6

 

Webber out in front in regards to Alonso: 5

Alonso out in front in regards to Webber: 6

 

Hmm... weird, the facts don't support your claim.

Maybe you meant race wins?

Webber: 0

Hamilton: 1

Alonso: 2

Maybe you meant podiums?

Webber: 3

Hamilton: 5

Alonso: 6

Maybe you meant points?

Webber: 115

Hamilton: 139

Alonso: 151

 

Excuse me sir, but do you even know what you're talking about?

Edited by mnmracer, 06 September 2013 - 14:24.

[Tron]

What on earth    On what grounds were they banned?

 

I was being sarcastic to the silly comment below by ensign14.

 

2004 is still seen as a nadir because Ferrari had the game pretty much rigged.

 

 

 

[zapppa83]

I'm convinced that they found some illegal tricks like last years. Impossible to be like Barcelona and one month later dominate in all tracks..

 

Sure you will say i'm a blind Ferrari fans but this is my opinion.

 

And finally i think that a drink company that dominate F1 is a shame.

Edited by zapppa83, 06 September 2013 - 14:34.

[Lights]

No it doesn't harm the sport.

 

It does make it less interesting. It's a shame that the potential of an epic championship fight between some of the greatest talents is once again ruined by one of them having a slight, yet ever-present technical advantage.

[Tron]

I'm convinced that they found some illegal tricks like last years. Impossible to be like Barcelona and one month later dominate in all tracks..

 

Sure you will say i'm a blind Ferrari fans but this is my opinion.

 

And finally i think that a drink company that dominate F1 is a shame.

 

Doubt it. They other teams would be bitching about such an illegal trick as in the past with them, Brawn, and Ferrari too. They have spies everywhere.

 

Well, it's not the drink's company fault, it's the sport that firstly allowed them to race beneath that banner, and secondly... it's the other teams that can't beat them...

I agree though, F1 has lost it's prestige with car manufactures beaten by a drinks company, but however, how is it different when Williams started, BRM, Jordan, all of them private teams that had no road car heritage... and still don't. Like Redbull. Nor McLaren had any historically road pedigree when they started, and only decades later they started making road cars, otherwise, they were just McLaren as Redbull is now.

 

And I'm a Ferrari fan too...

[st99]

It's the others that have to step up and beat them, they're not going to slow down to allow the other catch them. 

Edited by st99, 06 September 2013 - 14:44.

[ensign14]

I was being sarcastic to the silly comment below by ensign14.

 

 

Hardly silly, given what happened at the end of 2003, its knock-on effects, and what we since learned about Ferrari's technical veto. 

[zapppa83]

They have no road car heritage but passion for Motorsport. Now only money and sponsor count and with paid drivers maybe a New Vettel or Hamilton will never drive a F1 car

[DrF]

What Brawn did in 2009 was more harmful than what Red Bull have been doing.

 

They simply have the best current driver/car/team combination.  Their pitstops are miraculously quick, their strategy calls flawless, excellent reliability, consistency, race prep... everything.

 

Ferrari and Mclaren have lost their way since Todt and Dennis left and the other teams simply don't have enough dough.

[DrF]

They have no road car heritage but passion for Motorsport. Now only money and sponsor count and with paid drivers maybe a New Vettel or Hamilton will never drive a F1 car

 

Jaguar?

[mnmracer]

Everyone who says "drink company" should have their F1 fan badge taken for a year.

Red Bull Racing from Milton Keynes is a team that has been around for 16 years, since they started the 1997 Australian Grand Prix as Stewart Grand Prix. They have a teamboss who has been running his own race teams since 1999. They have an adviser who for decades held the speed record for the 24 hours of Le Mans.

To judge a team's value on it's name or sponsors, is utterly clueless.

[zapppa83]

 Yes we had Jaguar now we have TORO ROSSO. What is Toro Rosso??

[kosmos]

I think is bad for the casual viewers, for the F1 fans, is how things work, sometimes is one team, sometimes is other, F1 works in cicles, no is the RB cicle.

[zapppa83]

Everyone who says "drink company" should have their F1 fan badge taken for a year.

Red Bull Racing from Milton Keynes is a team that has been around for 16 years, since they started the 1997 Australian Grand Prix as Stewart Grand Prix. They have a teamboss who has been running his own race teams since 1999. They have an adviser who for decades held the speed record for the 24 hours of Le Mans.

To judge a team's value on it's name or sponsors, is utterly clueless.

Red Bull is a nasty drink.