Jump to content


Photo
* * - - - 21 votes

Red Bull dominance - harm for the sport?


  • Please log in to reply
506 replies to this topic

Poll: Red Bull dominance - harm for the sport? (382 member(s) have cast votes)

Does RB's four-year long dominance harm F1?

  1. Yes, it does. (205 votes [53.66%])

    Percentage of vote: 53.66%

  2. No, it doesn't. (177 votes [46.34%])

    Percentage of vote: 46.34%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#401 Dozer

Dozer
  • Member

  • 137 posts
  • Joined: September 13

Posted 21 September 2013 - 20:02

Vettel has a very special driving style, counter-intuitive according to Gary Anderson. That's what makes him one of the fastest drivers out there, if not the fastest...

 

...because Newey has tweaked the blown diffuser to permit him to do so, something Webber himself said felt alien to him; please don't quote out of context as it misrepresents the truth, a lot of knowledgeable F1 fans hang out here and have read the same articles you have.

 

For all those asking why Webber isn't 2nd if the Red Bull is dominant let me ask you 3 simple questions - is Mark a Tier 1 Driver? Is it possible Seb is a better Driver? Why is Mark leaving F1 next year?

 

The answers should be self explanatory.



Advertisement

#402 Forma1

Forma1
  • Member

  • 351 posts
  • Joined: March 13

Posted 21 September 2013 - 20:13

I have read load of comment recently and lots of people say they give up watching F1 for some time. Some of you could argue those are not real fans. Actually I mean if some has a familiy, and can decide between going for a walk with kis kid or sit down in front of the telly to watch F1, he would easily opt for the first in case of there never-ending dominance.

 

As F1 has been my life and have been following about 25 series for ages, I won't give one single qualy or race up even if it's boring, but I really want Alonso and Hamilton to get a machinery witch can match their trmednous talent. I just have a great respect for them.



#403 sv401

sv401
  • Member

  • 754 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 21 September 2013 - 20:26

 

You do realise that I meant Seb struggled in Spain and Monaco (which is why I mentioned them) so they introduced this engine mapping.

 

According to the team, he had a damaged chassis in those races, which has been replaced in Turkey, where he was faster except in Q3 (because of an anti-roll bar failure). 3 poles out of the first 4 races does not agree with the "engine mapping change" conspiracy theory either.

 

 

In 2012 Webber was leading the qualifying battle 5-4 after Silverstone, the car wasn't optimised for Vettel as this point. By the end of the year it was.

 

Why choose Silverstone ? This really sounds like cherry picking a point in the season where the Australian happened to have a small lead. Just one race earlier or later that would not have been the case. Note that Webber also qualified better 3-2 in the last 5 races (including at tracks like Abu Dhabi where he has always been worse previously), contrary to the popular myth of the car being "fixed" at the end of the season to suit Vettel. The fact is that the overall VET-WEB qualifying score is 11-9 for the entire season (about even), and there is no statistically significant difference between the first (5-5) and the second (6-4) half, especially considering the first half included most of the traditional "Webber tracks".

 

In 2012, Webber has been competitive in qualifying throughout the season, but Vettel had the advantage in the races already at the beginning.

 

Only someone who's just as deluded as those who criticise Vettel will not admit that Vettel gets better support (if only marginally) to Webber. Let's look at Silverstone 2010 and Turkey 2010 when they gave Webber's front wing to Vettel and when Marko criticised Webber when it was clear to the world that Vettel made the mistake.

 

Marko's criticism has nothing to do with a driver being supported or not. It does not make his car slower by even a millisecond. It is also curious how people keep coming up with Silverstone 2010 as "the" example of Vettel getting a car advantage (by the way, Webber was not particularly enthusiastic about that new wing until it was taken away); is it that difficult to find any others ? Speaking of 2010, isn't it the season when Vettel was used to fix the Hungarian race for Webber ? But let's assume for a moment that the favoritism accusations are true (not that I agree with them): do you think it is because Vettel is the better driver at Red Bull - which makes them no different from other top teams like Ferrari, Lotus, even McLaren when one driver was clearly better - or because they want to make a mediocre driver look better than he really is for some unknown and nonsensical reason ?


Edited by sv401, 21 September 2013 - 20:30.


#404 sv401

sv401
  • Member

  • 754 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 21 September 2013 - 20:46

...because Newey has tweaked the blown diffuser to permit him to do so, something Webber himself said felt alien to him

 

Newey tweaks the blown diffuser to make the car the fastest possible (assuming optimal driver performance). If that feels alien to Webber, it is his own social problem. A team will not make its car deliberately slower just to make it suit one particular driver over the other.



#405 Dozer

Dozer
  • Member

  • 137 posts
  • Joined: September 13

Posted 21 September 2013 - 21:01

Newey tweaks the blown diffuser to make the car the fastest possible (assuming optimal driver performance). If that feels alien to Webber, it is his own social problem. A team will not make its car deliberately slower just to make it suit one particular driver over the other.

 

I don't disagree with that, which is why when Vettel asked to revert to the old spec the Team pretty much said no and I guess the fact Mark was flying in the sister car backed up their decision.

 

I don't see any godlike driving, I see another Tier 1 driver (there are 4 on the grid imo) with no serious inter-team competition in the fastest car with circumstances suited down to a T in every aspect (Team calls, etc) which results in predictable dominance...



#406 Bruce

Bruce
  • Member

  • 8,355 posts
  • Joined: December 98

Posted 21 September 2013 - 23:35

That is you opinion, no more no less... their global sales figures would refute your claim valid as it is.

 

One should never confuse "popularity" with quality... 

 

Coca-cola is a very popular drink, but aside from it's high sugar content it's most notable feature is it's amazing effectiveness as a floor cleaner...

 

Justin Bieber sells millions upon millions of albums... nuff said.   ;)

 

Sorry - a bit OT... 



#407 Raven8

Raven8
  • Member

  • 705 posts
  • Joined: September 13

Posted 21 September 2013 - 23:45

IMO it harms the sport more than many think. With RBR dominance other teams are forced to spent more & more to catch up, wich ruins not only the small teams , but also could lead to the exodus of complete F!.

RBR has by far the biggest budget. For Mateschitz money does not play a role. For teams like Mercedes & Ferrari they have to spent more too, and they buy the best people from other teams to have a chance. This also harms teams like Mclaren & Lotus with the latter in serious troubles IMO.

 

Lotus, Williams, Force India& Sauber are on the edge to be bankrupt

Mercedes might quit if RBR keeps dominating  wich leaves not much teams in F1

 

Instead of cost reducing A rBR dominance will make it more expensive for possible challengers


Edited by Raven8, 21 September 2013 - 23:55.


#408 Winter98

Winter98
  • Member

  • 638 posts
  • Joined: October 12

Posted 22 September 2013 - 02:04

I don't disagree with that, which is why when Vettel asked to revert to the old spec the Team pretty much said no and I guess the fact Mark was flying in the sister car backed up their decision.

 

I don't see any godlike driving, I see another Tier 1 driver (there are 4 on the grid imo) with no serious inter-team competition in the fastest car with circumstances suited down to a T in every aspect (Team calls, etc) which results in predictable dominance...

      

SV is only 26, and is now a huge favourite to become a 4xWDC.

 

And he has done it in what is probably the most competitive era of F1 racing, and against one of the best group of drivers in F1 history.  He is the proving to be the top driver this season, outperforming drivers who are already at their peak. 

 

That is pretty darn godlike.  Granted he has more to prove if he wants to be considered alongside Fangio, Senna, and MS, but he is already well on his way.

 

And he is only 26 years old, with his best years still ahead of him.  We are witnessing a driver who has a good chance to become one of the legends of F1 racing and motorsports, so why not appreciate it?


Edited by Winter98, 22 September 2013 - 02:13.


#409 sheepgobba

sheepgobba
  • Member

  • 1,121 posts
  • Joined: January 11

Posted 22 September 2013 - 02:07

SV is only 26, and is now a huge favourite to become a 4xWDC.

 

And he has done it in what is probably the most competitive era of F1 racing, and against one of the best group of drivers in F1 history.  With his best years still ahead of him, he is the proving to be the top driver this season, outperforming drivers who are already at their peak. 

 

That is pretty darn godlike.  Granted he has more to prove if he wants to be considered alongside Fangio, Senna, and MS, but he is already close.

 

And he is only 26 years old, with his best years still ahead of him.  That is amazing

Sure the teams are all closer and it's more competitive but it's no secret the Red Bull has been the best car for the last few seasons. 



#410 Andrew Hope

Andrew Hope
  • Writer of 2013's Best Opening Post

  • 7,070 posts
  • Joined: October 09

Posted 22 September 2013 - 02:09

OH BOY LET'S DEBATE THIS SHIT AGAIN!

 

I'm sure we'll all agree this time.



#411 Winter98

Winter98
  • Member

  • 638 posts
  • Joined: October 12

Posted 22 September 2013 - 02:21

Sure the teams are all closer and it's more competitive but it's no secret the Red Bull has been the best car for the last few seasons. 

And just like Senna, MS, Fangio, and pretty well every other WDC in the history of F1 SV is in the best, or tied for best, car.

 

This year he has emerged as the probably the best driver on the grid, and he is still improving, and likely will be for another three or four years at least.  He is matching FA, a driver his fans consider to be in the top tier of drivers alltime, when FA is at his peak.

 

If he lives up to his potential, and granted he has a ways to go to do that, but if he does, we are witnessing one of the legends of F1 racing and motorsport.  I think that's kind of special, and something to be enjoyed.


Edited by Winter98, 22 September 2013 - 02:23.


#412 Kingshark

Kingshark
  • Member

  • 2,944 posts
  • Joined: April 12

Posted 22 September 2013 - 02:41

And just like Senna, MS, Fangio, and pretty well every other WDC in the history of F1 SV is in the best, or tied for best, car.

 

Prost in 1986?   ;)



#413 Bruce

Bruce
  • Member

  • 8,355 posts
  • Joined: December 98

Posted 22 September 2013 - 03:38

 

This year he has emerged as the probably the best driver on the grid, and he is still improving, and likely will be for another three or four years at least.  

 

 

Er... this year? You've waited until he's pretty much wrapped up his 4th WDC to say he has "emerged"?- Does this mean that in the previous 3 years that he won the WDC he was NOT the best driver on the grid? If he was NOT, than HOW did he win back to back to back WDCs? Or is this a tacit admission that in the past 3 years he was aided at least in part by having a dominant car? And if you make THAT tacit admission, than why would you suggest that anything has changed this year?

 

I really don't understand this assertion. Vettel hasn't displayed anything (that I can see) much different from previous years... did you not watch 2011?



#414 Winter98

Winter98
  • Member

  • 638 posts
  • Joined: October 12

Posted 22 September 2013 - 03:58

Prost in 1986?   ;)

1989?

 

Like I said, Vettel still has work to do to reach Prost's level.



#415 Winter98

Winter98
  • Member

  • 638 posts
  • Joined: October 12

Posted 22 September 2013 - 04:07

Er... this year? You've waited until he's pretty much wrapped up his 4th WDC to say he has "emerged"?- Does this mean that in the previous 3 years that he won the WDC he was NOT the best driver on the grid? If he was NOT, than HOW did he win back to back to back WDCs? Or is this a tacit admission that in the past 3 years he was aided at least in part by having a dominant car? And if you make THAT tacit admission, than why would you suggest that anything has changed this year?

 

I really don't understand this assertion. Vettel hasn't displayed anything (that I can see) much different from previous years... did you not watch 2011?

 

Vettel did amazingly well to win 3xWDCs, and probably 4xWDCs this year.  Maybe, and I think it's a big maybe, one or two other drivers on the grid could have done it.

 

Team Principles, who Alonso fans put so much stock in last year, have voted SV and FA two drivers of the year each in the last four years, giving slightly more votes to SV.  So SV has been roughly equivalent to FA the last four years.  That is FA at his peak, and SV just coming into the sport, with a few more years to improve.  And FA's fans consider him to be in the top tier of drivers alltime.

 

Like I said, if SV lives up to his potential, and admittedly he still has work to do, but if he lives up to his potential he is going to be a legend of F1 and motorsport.



#416 Jovanotti

Jovanotti
  • Member

  • 2,999 posts
  • Joined: October 11

Posted 22 September 2013 - 04:28

That is FA at his peak, and SV just coming into the sport, with a few more years to improve.

It's not that easy. In terms of speed and consistency, Alonso - at the age of 24 - was just as good in 2005 and 2006 as Vettel is today, same with Räikkönen in his McLaren years. Fernando's 2012 was outstanding, but imho he already was at that level years before. It's not a given Vettel will become much better from now on (not that he needed to).



#417 Winter98

Winter98
  • Member

  • 638 posts
  • Joined: October 12

Posted 22 September 2013 - 04:43

It's not that easy. In terms of speed and consistency, Alonso - at the age of 24 - was just as good in 2005 and 2006 as Vettel is today, same with Räikkönen in his McLaren years. Fernando's 2012 was outstanding, but imho he already was at that level years before. It's not a given Vettel will become much better from now on (not that he needed to).

 

I agree with you 100% Jovanotti. 

 

That's why I said SV still has work to do to live up to his potential.  IMO FA, and LH have failed in that regard so far.  Will SV manage it?  It's going to be interesting finding out.


Edited by Winter98, 22 September 2013 - 04:52.


#418 Kelateboy

Kelateboy
  • Member

  • 5,797 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 22 September 2013 - 05:20

...because Newey has tweaked the blown diffuser to permit him to do so, something Webber himself said felt alien to him; please don't quote out of context as it misrepresents the truth, a lot of knowledgeable F1 fans hang out here and have read the same articles you have.

 

For all those asking why Webber isn't 2nd if the Red Bull is dominant let me ask you 3 simple questions - is Mark a Tier 1 Driver? Is it possible Seb is a better Driver? Why is Mark leaving F1 next year?

 

The answers should be self explanatory.

 

Newey and all the other F1 team designers tweaked their cars all the times - it is called developments. They bring and test new parts, upgrades and updates to every race in search of miliseconds of improvements. So if they are on Red Bull's cars, it is because those parts, tweaks, tunnels, fins, etc make the car goes faster. Newey did not tweak the car to suit Vettel; he tweaks the car to make it faster and if suits their World Champion, so much the better.

 

China 2012 clearly showed that the team comes first, and they did not change their development path with regards to the coanda exhaust (cross-over tunnel version) just to satisfy Sebastian whims and fancies.

 

And why did Webber retire at the end of this year? It is not obvious that he is a 37 year old driver who is already past his prime. At least he knows when it is time to call it a day.



#419 LewDaMan

LewDaMan
  • Member

  • 263 posts
  • Joined: September 13

Posted 22 September 2013 - 05:26

SV is only 26, and is now a huge favourite to become a 4xWDC.

 

And he has done it in what is probably the most competitive era of F1 racing, and against one of the best group of drivers in F1 history.  He is the proving to be the top driver this season, outperforming drivers who are already at their peak. 

 

That is pretty darn godlike.  Granted he has more to prove if he wants to be considered alongside Fangio, Senna, and MS, but he is already well on his way.

 

And he is only 26 years old, with his best years still ahead of him.  We are witnessing a driver who has a good chance to become one of the legends of F1 racing and motorsports, so why not appreciate it?

 

:clap:

 

That is a fantastic parody of the most ridiculously o.t.t. Vettel devotee. I swear you're all trying to outdo yourselves.

 

"Godlike" and being asked to "appreciate" a driver who has so far merely proved that he can win lights-to-flag from PP in the best overall cars, 2010 onwards, means you will take some outdoing in the Vettel-hyperbole stakes!

 

Well done you.



Advertisement

#420 Claudius

Claudius
  • Member

  • 2,309 posts
  • Joined: December 02

Posted 22 September 2013 - 05:44

:clap:

 

That is a fantastic parody of the most ridiculously o.t.t. Vettel devotee. I swear you're all trying to outdo yourselves.

 

"Godlike" and being asked to "appreciate" a driver who has so far merely proved that he can win lights-to-flag from PP in the best overall cars, 2010 onwards, means you will take some outdoing in the Vettel-hyperbole stakes!

 

Well done you.

 

I agree.

"Godlike" FFS, let's see him do that in a car that is not as dominant as RB has been these past seasons.



#421 DrF

DrF
  • Member

  • 1,585 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 22 September 2013 - 05:54

Yes we had Jaguar now we have TORO ROSSO. What is Toro Rosso?? :mad: :down:


A F1 team?

#422 Dozer

Dozer
  • Member

  • 137 posts
  • Joined: September 13

Posted 22 September 2013 - 07:10

SV is only 26, and is now a huge favourite to become a 4xWDC.

 

And he has done it in what is probably the most competitive era of F1 racing, and against one of the best group of drivers in F1 history.  He is the proving to be the top driver this season, outperforming drivers who are already at their peak. 

 

That is pretty darn godlike.  Granted he has more to prove if he wants to be considered alongside Fangio, Senna, and MS, but he is already well on his way.

 

And he is only 26 years old, with his best years still ahead of him.  We are witnessing a driver who has a good chance to become one of the legends of F1 racing and motorsports, so why not appreciate it?

 

Sorry but I don't see the world as you do, yes for the last 4 years we've had a competitive grid and the best driver line up ever but only a blind man would ignore the fact that Vettel's situation has been slightly (sarcasm) different to the other Tier 1 drivers over that period and if I need to explain why then I would question whether your TV has actually been functioning correctly...

 

Titles do not = The Greatest as that other German dude showed; great yes but not the greatest in many people's opinions and no dazzling pole-win races in the best (dominant?) car will convince otherwise.



#423 apoka

apoka
  • Member

  • 3,611 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 22 September 2013 - 07:25

so far merely proved that he can win lights-to-flag from PP in the best overall cars, 2010 onwards

 

Some people conveniently forget that the was already leading the WDC this year when RB was not the best (or at least not clearly the best) car. He had lots of good races when not on pole, although naturally he didn't win most of those. He is obviously no god, but reducing him to pole-to-flag wins isn't right either.



#424 abc

abc
  • Member

  • 1,967 posts
  • Joined: July 05

Posted 22 September 2013 - 08:07

This discussion can go on for years.

 

Some (me included) believe he is doing great things in RBR seeing how since 2009 he dominates MW who they consider to belong in better half of the field with Rosbergs and Buttons. 

 

Others will state forever that its mostly car, beating old MW is walk in the park and RBR was dominant car in every single race because of guy called Newey.

 

Lets take this fight to another dozens of rounds.



#425 Tron

Tron
  • Member

  • 614 posts
  • Joined: September 13

Posted 22 September 2013 - 08:44

This discussion can go on for years.

 

Some (me included) believe he is doing great things in RBR seeing how since 2009 he dominates MW who they consider to belong in better half of the field with Rosbergs and Buttons. 

 

Others will state forever that its mostly car, beating old MW is walk in the park and RBR was dominant car in every single race because of guy called Newey.

 

Lets take this fight to another dozens of rounds.

 

So you saying, Senna made McLaren win because he beat Berger, same as Mansel to Patrese, Prost to Hill, Hakkinen to Coultard, Schumacher to Barrichello, Alonso to Fisichella? Jeez, then I guess F1 teams might as well fire half of their engineering team and just focus on the right driver.

 

I'll remain to the view Vettel is a great driver, and would like to see him win in a weaker car to end this debute, but there's no arguing that even a monkey could be a world champion in any of his Redbulls.



#426 fastwriter

fastwriter
  • Member

  • 173 posts
  • Joined: November 11

Posted 22 September 2013 - 09:04

So you saying, Senna made McLaren win because he beat Berger, same as Mansel to Patrese, Prost to Hill, Hakkinen to Coultard, Schumacher to Barrichello, Alonso to Fisichella? Jeez, then I guess F1 teams might as well fire half of their engineering team and just focus on the right driver.

 

I'll remain to the view Vettel is a great driver, and would like to see him win in a weaker car to end this debute, but there's no arguing that even a monkey could be a world champion in any of his Redbulls.

 So you say, even a Monkey would be faster in a Red Bull than Mark Webber??



#427 fastwriter

fastwriter
  • Member

  • 173 posts
  • Joined: November 11

Posted 22 September 2013 - 09:06

Sorry but I don't see the world as you do, yes for the last 4 years we've had a competitive grid and the best driver line up ever but only a blind man would ignore the fact that Vettel's situation has been slightly (sarcasm) different to the other Tier 1 drivers over that period and if I need to explain why then I would question whether your TV has actually been functioning correctly...

 

Titles do not = The Greatest as that other German dude showed; great yes but not the greatest in many people's opinions and no dazzling pole-win races in the best (dominant?) car will convince otherwise.

 

But of coures, making a debut in the best team in F1 at that moment, always driving in cars capable of winning races and only getting 1 WDC title makes other drivers belong to the greatest?



#428 race addicted

race addicted
  • Member

  • 19,744 posts
  • Joined: June 01

Posted 22 September 2013 - 09:12

...because Newey has tweaked the blown diffuser to permit him to do so, something Webber himself said felt alien to him; please don't quote out of context as it misrepresents the truth, a lot of knowledgeable F1 fans hang out here and have read the same articles you have.

 

For all those asking why Webber isn't 2nd if the Red Bull is dominant let me ask you 3 simple questions - is Mark a Tier 1 Driver? Is it possible Seb is a better Driver? Why is Mark leaving F1 next year?

 

The answers should be self explanatory.

It's been clear that the Red Bulls require a very specific driving style, one that Vettel masters brilliantly obviously. It's sometimes the same with Hamilton with regards to the Fric suspension; the drivers with most natural ability doesn't really like it when the car does things it isn't supposed to.

 

On Red Bull's dominance, I don't mind at all who's winning the lions share of the races. I want intense races, from start to finish, with drivers pushing and showing why they're the best. I was all for the changes to the tires, 'cause above all, I'm a fan of the F1 world championship (that outweighs having a couple of favourite drivers I support, if you see what I mean.)



#429 Dozer

Dozer
  • Member

  • 137 posts
  • Joined: September 13

Posted 22 September 2013 - 10:38

But of coures, making a debut in the best team in F1 at that moment, always driving in cars capable of winning races and only getting 1 WDC title makes other drivers belong to the greatest?

 

A direct response would be off topic and i'd like to avoid that, this isn't about Lewis, Red Bull had the chance to plonk his hip hop bum in the seat next to Vettel and opted not to, imagine the spectacle we would've witnessed as we did in '07! :love:

 

The point is dominance is boring and Red Bull with their driver selection for next year have ensured it'll continue which means i'll carry on watching the races on x6 with Sky Plus (even though I paid for the damn channel!) until there's some competition to watch, heck i'm not mad at Newey for his streak, i'm just sad there's no inter-team rivalry to get invested in like there will be at Ferrari next year...



#430 Dozer

Dozer
  • Member

  • 137 posts
  • Joined: September 13

Posted 22 September 2013 - 10:49

It's been clear that the Red Bulls require a very specific driving style, one that Vettel masters brilliantly obviously. It's sometimes the same with Hamilton with regards to the Fric suspension; the drivers with most natural ability doesn't really like it when the car does things it isn't supposed to.

 

On Red Bull's dominance, I don't mind at all who's winning the lions share of the races. I want intense races, from start to finish, with drivers pushing and showing why they're the best. I was all for the changes to the tires, 'cause above all, I'm a fan of the F1 world championship (that outweighs having a couple of favourite drivers I support, if you see what I mean.)

 

I hear ya, watching Vettel through the corners with that thing is mind-blowing (even Mark in Monza onboard), it must feel unreal to be able to accelerate through a corner like that, try that in any other car and they'd be scraping you off the walls so yeah, fair play to them and Vettel for maximising it over Mark...

 

This I thought is a pretty good excerpt from an article last year, I agree 100% with Jaime, he notices a vehicle too -

 

Every time his rivals try to handicap him Newey finds another way of beating them. It took him until Singapore to find a way around the blown diffuser ban this season, but since then Red Bull have been unstoppable, Vettel claiming four wins out of four. “He is a genius,” McLaren’s Lewis Hamilton observed of Newey following last Sunday’s race in India. “I could not have caught Vettel even if I had been going at 200 per cent.”

“It's incredible to see this one guy working with so many people and with so much money, to succeed like this,” added driver Jaime Alguersuari in a column for the BBC this week, seeking to explain Newey’s genius. "We [drivers] are athletes but we definitely depend more than other sports on technology. You would never hear Roger Federer or Rafael Nadal saying: ‘I didn't win because his racket is better than mine.’ But in F1 there is a difference in performance from one car to another.”



#431 JohnCooperF1

JohnCooperF1
  • Member

  • 69 posts
  • Joined: September 13

Posted 22 September 2013 - 14:57

It is becoming quite clear that the behaviour at the podium ceremonies by a selection of so called fans is doing more harm to the sport.

#432 UPRC

UPRC
  • Member

  • 4,620 posts
  • Joined: February 99

Posted 22 September 2013 - 15:06

Massive harm for the sport. I didn't even tune in to watch any of F1 this weekend because I knew Vettel would walk it. I was right.  :down:



#433 Iremos

Iremos
  • Member

  • 116 posts
  • Joined: April 12

Posted 22 September 2013 - 15:10

Massive harm for the sport. I didn't even tune in to watch any of F1 this weekend because I knew Vettel would walk it. I was right.  :down:

 

It was worth watching RAI's and ALO's storm through the field though.



#434 Coral

Coral
  • Member

  • 2,842 posts
  • Joined: January 07

Posted 22 September 2013 - 15:13

Massive harm for the sport. I didn't even tune in to watch any of F1 this weekend because I knew Vettel would walk it. I was right.  :down:

 

I have to agree with you UPRC, sadly. It's races like this that are killing F1 stone dead...for me anyway. As in 2002 and 2004, I actually switched off half way through and did something else...I turned it on again just in time to see Webber breaking down. I'm just so sick and tired of Formula RedBull/Vettel. And judging by the reaction of the crowd, I'm not the only one.



#435 fastwriter

fastwriter
  • Member

  • 173 posts
  • Joined: November 11

Posted 22 September 2013 - 16:08

I have to agree with you UPRC, sadly. It's races like this that are killing F1 stone dead...for me anyway. As in 2002 and 2004, I actually switched off half way through and did something else...I turned it on again just in time to see Webber breaking down. I'm just so sick and tired of Formula RedBull/Vettel. And judging by the reaction of the crowd, I'm not the only one.

 

Question: What would you do, if Hamilton should be as dominant as Vettel in a season to come? Not watch it? Or is your disinterest only the hurt feeling of a fanboy?



#436 nosecone

nosecone
  • Member

  • 933 posts
  • Joined: January 13

Posted 22 September 2013 - 17:51

I just can say that this race is one of the less races i didn't watch on purpose.

 

Spend the day with flying modell aircrafts... maybe i have had more exciting moments than the battle for the lead by doing this.
 

Only thing i feel sad about is that i didn't see the great battle in the middle field with McLaren...


Edited by nosecone, 22 September 2013 - 17:51.


#437 Clatter

Clatter
  • Member

  • 27,687 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 22 September 2013 - 18:12

Massive harm for the sport. I didn't even tune in to watch any of F1 this weekend because I knew Vettel would walk it. I was right.  :down:

In that case you missed some very exciting racing.



#438 muramasa

muramasa
  • Member

  • 3,270 posts
  • Joined: November 08

Posted 22 September 2013 - 18:22

If you make more efforts or come up with more clever solution than others and you dont get rewarded with results, then that would be catastrophe for F1 or any other sports.



#439 Coral

Coral
  • Member

  • 2,842 posts
  • Joined: January 07

Posted 22 September 2013 - 18:32

Question: What would you do, if Hamilton should be as dominant as Vettel in a season to come? Not watch it? Or is your disinterest only the hurt feeling of a fanboy?

 

If Hamilton were to be as dominant as Vettel then I should probably be jumping up and down with joy, as he has the talent and ability to win more titles, he has just not had the luck. Or a dominant Newey car to drive. It won't happen though...Lewis could never be that lucky and, unlike Vettel, Lewis is mentally fragile, which IMO affects his performance.

 

My disinterest is not the hurt feeling of a "fanboy"...it is physically impossible for me to be a fanboy anyway... ( :p)... I just want to see some real competition. A race, rather than a procession. I was there at Silverstone in 2008 when Lewis won by over a minute...it was an awe-inspiring, breathtaking drive...a drive which really cemented Lewis as my favourite driver. But it was in the wet, and there was always the feeling that he could bin the car at any minute. Lewis really had to fight for that win. But these days with Vettel, it's as if he just glides effortlessly to race wins...apart from at the start, he doesn't have to fight at all. It's just too easy. And when there are drivers of the calibre of Alonso, Raikkonen, Hamilton etc. it just seems unfair.



Advertisement

#440 chrcol

chrcol
  • Member

  • 1,010 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 22 September 2013 - 18:36

today the sky presenter told newey straight up to carry on developing aero is getting a bit silly.

 

newey reply was he thinks a 2 DNF cushion isnt big enough.



#441 JohnCooperF1

JohnCooperF1
  • Member

  • 69 posts
  • Joined: September 13

Posted 22 September 2013 - 18:37

Boo Hoo



#442 sopa

sopa
  • Member

  • 3,433 posts
  • Joined: April 07

Posted 22 September 2013 - 18:48

If there wasn't Red Bull dominance, we'd have Alonso dominance. WDC in 2010, 2012. Right now three wins in a row and a comfortable championship lead again.



#443 jj2728

jj2728
  • Member

  • 2,800 posts
  • Joined: January 04

Posted 22 September 2013 - 21:41

1989?
 
Like I said, Vettel still has work to do to reach Prost's level.


I think he's already reached Prost's level, and then some.

#444 JazH

JazH
  • Member

  • 383 posts
  • Joined: May 06

Posted 22 September 2013 - 22:26

I don't mind if a team won it 4 times in a row. 

 

In all honesty though, the problem is not who's winning it, but the how it's being won. No one in sight on the track with 6 races to go.

 

My interest in F1 is slipping though, there is an aura of inevitability without excitement.... not good for any sport.



#445 MikeV1987

MikeV1987
  • Member

  • 1,716 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 22 September 2013 - 22:40

The calendar is what makes me lose interest in F1, over here in Canada I get the pleasure of watching three races per season live on a sunday afternoon, every other race is early morning. Plus all the breaks in between races doesn't help either, this season has been the worst when it comes to that imo.



#446 Bruce

Bruce
  • Member

  • 8,355 posts
  • Joined: December 98

Posted 22 September 2013 - 22:46

I don't mind if a team won it 4 times in a row. 

 

In all honesty though, the problem is not who's winning it, but the how it's being won. No one in sight on the track with 6 races to go.

 

My interest in F1 is slipping though, there is an aura of inevitability without excitement.... not good for any sport.

 

I agree. I've been watching the sport too damned long to give up on it easily, and I have sat through dull periods before, so I will sit this one through too. But it doesn't mean I like it. There's not a single car that could have lived with the Red Bull today. Not one. not even close. Heck - even Brundle was practically thanking Ricciardo for stuffing his car in the wall to give us the opportunity for a close race again - only to watch Vettel bugger off at 2 seconds a lap. It's a good thing the race behind was interesting, because the race at the front was settled at the first corner. 



#447 Bruce

Bruce
  • Member

  • 8,355 posts
  • Joined: December 98

Posted 22 September 2013 - 22:52

The calendar is what makes me lose interest in F1, over here in Canada I get the pleasure of watching three races per season live on a sunday afternoon, every other race is early morning. Plus all the breaks in between races doesn't help either, this season has been the worst when it comes to that imo.

 

I live in Canada too - and it's not the calendar. Not for me, anyway. I've been watching F1 for 30 years now, and let me tell you - the coverage available here now is streets ahead of what it was in 1984 or 85 when you were lucky to pick up a half hour highlight package on Wide World of Sport. Even after that, in the mid to late 80s when they started to carry full races, they often aired them at "their convenience" - which generally meant midnight or after. 

 

I agree that I don't like the summer break... too long. But the coverage we have now is amazing. it's the competition at the front that isn't. 



#448 bourbon

bourbon
  • Member

  • 7,265 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 22 September 2013 - 22:54

The calendar is what makes me lose interest in F1, over here in Canada I get the pleasure of watching three races per season live on a sunday afternoon, every other race is early morning. Plus all the breaks in between races doesn't help either, this season has been the worst when it comes to that imo.

 

That's true for all of us in N. America.  However, I have spent so many years getting up in the wee hours to watch, it actually feels odd to me when the races are time-zone friendly for us.

 

But then again, RBR's dominance - and in fact, any dominance - would not cause me to lose interest in the sport.



#449 wayned

wayned
  • New Member

  • 20 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 22 September 2013 - 22:58

He and Red Bull are killing F1, it is the Schumacher years again.

 

Little or no point in watching anymore races this year, I think he will win all or most of the races left.



#450 Bruce

Bruce
  • Member

  • 8,355 posts
  • Joined: December 98

Posted 22 September 2013 - 23:06

He and Red Bull are killing F1, it is the Schumacher years again.

 

Little or no point in watching anymore races this year, I think he will win all or most of the races left.

 

As a fan, there is always a reason for me to watch the sport. And I will cheerfully watch every single race that remains, even if Vettel wins them all (and I am, primarily, an Alonso fan). But I would hope that ferrari, Mercedes, Lotus - ANYONE, can close the gap, (though it's much too late this year) in order to render the races more interesting than they otherwise might be.

 

Sadly, this is unlikely. I'm pretty sure that everyone (except, strangely, Red Bull) are putting all their efforts into next years car now.