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1956 X Gran Premio de la Republica Argentina


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#1 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 20:04


Car no. 8 was supposed to be a new Maserati 250F for Luigi Piotti and car no. 16 an old Maserati A6GCM for Alberto Uria.

I have a Picture showing Alberto Uria's A6GCM with no. 8 ! Any explanations , please ?

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#2 D-Type

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 20:57

Are you sure of the accuracy of the caption and the dating?

 

In 1954 Bira's A6GCM was #8.  Could the picture be of that car?



#3 Felix Muelas

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 21:39

Not discussing what you have not shown, Bjorn, but here you have a picture of Piotti being overtaken by Behra in Argentina 56. And he carries number 8...
 

Caption on the picture (in case you find it difficult with Spanish) says :

 

Jean Behra, an excellent second place is about to overtake the private driver Luigi Piotti, who not only disappointed completely but also was the culprit in an accident with Collins. 



#4 Tim Murray

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 22:11

Could it be the old story of the organisers issuing different numbers for practice and the race to fool the pirate programme compilers?



#5 Loren Lundberg

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 22:11

Is there a reliable source for documentation, entrants, etc. for this race somewhere?  If there is, I would appreciate any info, from e-mail to snail mail addresses.   Thanks, LL



#6 D-Type

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 23:10

The starting point is the relevant Paul Sheldon "Black Book" but these are expensive and out of print.  There are several Formula 1 statistics websites that have cloned the information.  Then there are the contemporary English language magazines: Motor Sport, Autosport, Motor Racing, The Motor, Autocar, and Road and Track (US) or the French, German or Italian equivalents.  Books include Autocourse 1956-57, Grand Prix Data Book by David Hayhoe and David Holland, International Motor Racing Guide by Peter Higham, and Grand Prix Who's Who by Steve Small.


Edited by D-Type, 10 September 2013 - 16:35.


#7 RVM

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 00:24

The starting point is the relevant Paul Sheldon "Black Book" but these are expensive and out of print.

 

The original edition of the pertinent "Black Book" had most of the 250F information incorrect, as did we all back then. The revised, 2nd Edition has made the appropriate corrections.

 

Of course, there is the book by David McKinney on the 250F which is to be recommended very highly in this case.

 

I am unaware of the Alberto Uria machine using any number besides "16" during the race meeting.



#8 Rob Ryder

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 08:45

I think that this is image that Bjørn is referring to (copyright unknown) ... the number looks like 18 and not 8.

Anyone have info on "Scuderia La Tribu" ? 

 

80hh.jpg


Edited by Rob Ryder, 09 September 2013 - 08:47.


#9 D-Type

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 11:46

To add to the confusion, is that the top of a number 1, making it number 18?

Who are the two drivers on the left?  Oscar Gonzalez (moustache) and Uria possibly - definitely not Piotti.

Are we sure of the race and the year?  Uria raced his A6GCM/250F over a few years. Could the race be the formule libre Grand Premio de la Ciudad de Buenos Aires (Buenos Aires City GP) rather than the Argentine GP proper.  The large grandstands suggest Buenos Aires which rules out 1956 when it was run at Mendoza .
Were there any other Argentine National events that Uria could have competed in carrying number 18?  I say Argentine because I doubt anywhere else would have had grandstands that large.


Edited by D-Type, 09 September 2013 - 11:57.


#10 rudi

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 15:45

To add to the confusion, is that the top of a number 1, making it number 18?

Who are the two drivers on the left?  Oscar Gonzalez (moustache) and Uria possibly - definitely not Piotti.

Are we sure of the race and the year?  Uria raced his A6GCM/250F over a few years. Could the race be the formule libre Grand Premio de la Ciudad de Buenos Aires (Buenos Aires City GP) rather than the Argentine GP proper.  The large grandstands suggest Buenos Aires which rules out 1956 when it was run at Mendoza .
Were there any other Argentine National events that Uria could have competed in carrying number 18?  I say Argentine because I doubt anywhere else would have had grandstands that large.

The Rob Ryder photo is definetely Uria's car at the 1956 Argentine GP. Uria shared his car with Oscar Gonzales.



#11 David McKinney

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 15:45

It's not the Argentine or Buenos Aires GPs for any of the years Uria had the car

It must therefore be another race - the stands could easily be Interlagos, for example

#12 David McKinney

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 15:48

The Rob Ryder photo is definetely Uria's car at the 1956 Argentine GP. Uria shared his car with Oscar Gonzales.

This crossed with mine...

If you're sure of that, the car must be wearing its number from an earlier race

#13 Rob G

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 17:32

What was the color scheme on this car? The bonnet appears to be a different color than the rest of the body. The Uruguayan colors were pale blue with a red band around the front, so maybe he simply removed the bonnet from a red car, painted the rest of the car pale blue, and then put the bonnet back on?



#14 Claudio Navonne

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Posted 09 September 2013 - 22:38

From "Velocidad" magazine (Buenos Aires)January 1956

Front cover:

3kuh.jpg

 

Race report 1

3u12.jpg


Racerport 2

[t5nw.jpg


 

Race report 3

irbz.jpg


 

Race report 4

g2r1.jpg



 I hope it may be useful.

Claudio

 

 

 

 



#15 Rob Ryder

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 09:01

Thanks Claudio

The 'in period' results show Uria/Gonzalez as #18, which could solve the puzzle. :clap:

 

It seems there will be a lot of Internet websites and publications needing a correction  :lol:

 

Rob



#16 Felix Muelas

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 10:15

To start of with, a big THANKS to Claudio.  :clap:

 

I also read #18 on the list of cars at the end results, and the comments on the article leave no doubt that the two Uruguyans actually drove the same machine.

 

I am, however, incapable of reading "18" in any of the two pictures provided in the article (althought, to be fair, it would be silly to doubt the car actually bears that number, two different pictures in the same page...you do not make a mistake).

 

So I will have to agree that it is reasonable to assume that the big picture above, with the Maserati bearing the YPF sticker is Argentina 1956.

 

Obviously I am still curious to understand if #16 was initially allocated to another Uruguay entry of a car that probably DNA´d.



#17 RAP

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 16:27

The starting point is the relevant Paul Sheldon "Black Book" but these are expensive and out of print.  There are several Formula 1 statistics websites that have cloned the information.  Then there are the contemporary english language magazines: Motor Sport, Autosport, Motor Racing, The Motor, Autocar, and Road and Track (US) or the French, German or Italian equivalents.  Books include Autocourse 1956-57, Grand Prix Data Book by David Hayhoe and David Holland, International Motor Racing Guide by Peter Higham, and Grand Prix Who's Who by Steve Small.

Just want to point out that the "black books" are NOT out of print. Second Editions are available for Vols 3 to 7 and 8 to 13 are still available. Whether you consider them expensive considering the research that lies behind them, is of course, a matter of personal values......

RAP


Edited by RAP, 10 September 2013 - 16:27.


#18 D-Type

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Posted 10 September 2013 - 16:34

Just want to point out that the "black books" are NOT out of print. Second Editions are available for Vols 3 to 7 and 8 to 13 are still available. Whether you consider them expensive considering the research that lies behind them, is of course, a matter of personal values......

RAP

My apologies.  I meant expensive for the casual researcher to buy.  I fully appreciate the research that has gone into their production and their true value.

 

I didn't know that second editions had been produced.



#19 Pablo Vignone

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 02:07

It's not the Argentine or Buenos Aires GPs for any of the years Uria had the car

It must therefore be another race - the stands could easily be Interlagos, for example

 

The track is, undoubtly, Buenos Aires. 



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#20 David McKinney

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 05:51

I think that was pretty much confirmed by Post 14