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Kimi Raikkonen Announced for Ferrari 2014


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#1401 SpaMaster

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 15:19

I don't think you can really put that in a way that would not hurt Massa or put him in a bad spot. Massa is still a ferrari driver, apart from that he is Alonso's friend and they respect one another. Why would Alonso break that relationship and make kimi fans on this board happy ? On what grounds? How would Massa feel i Alonso comes out and suggests that Kimi is faster when Massa beat him so many times. He knows his problem is not pace and also has said that Alonso has been his strongest teammate..

 

..

Massa can go to a team like Lotus or Sauber regain some of his confidence back, with no longer having the pressure of teamming up against Alonso, and I would not be surprised if his consitency improves and beats his teammates .

Seriously, what is this new 'Alonso being a caring-friend of Massa' propaganda I am hearing about? Where is the respect when one driver is thrashing the other driver? It is unbelievable to me to hear some of the Alonso fans concerned about Massa's feelings. Give me a break.

 

Massa won't get a seat at Lotus.

 


Edited by SpaMaster, 12 October 2013 - 15:20.


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#1402 as65p

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 15:28

That is the way I see this too. Why would Ferrari have switched to Kimi if they did't think he'd make a difference? Sometimes Fernando would be better off not saying anything :-)

 

One word: desperation.

 

Now that's only the answer to your specific question. On a whole, I and probably most fans look forward to it and it will certainly make another year of RB domination more bearable to at least watch FA & KR go head-to head.

 

BUT: I don't think it was a particulary rational or smart decision form the teams POV. It smacks more of an attempt to divert from the technical and team failures or recent years. IMO, if a team has a driver of KR, FA, LH, SV calibre they are set in that department and should concentrate further efforts on building a winning car. Only after achieving that it makes sense to put the icing on the cake and spend money on two star drivers. But that's just my view.

 

Besides, it's a bit ironic that as much better than Massa in getting results KR will likely be, he recently appears to share Alonso one "weakness" of being a so-so qualifier.



#1403 DrF

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 15:33

Well, Massa outqualified Alonso today, so I guess that means that Kimi is faster than Alonso?

 

:drunk:



#1404 RealRacing

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 15:43

Seriously, what is this new 'Alonso being a caring-friend of Massa' propaganda I am hearing about? Where is the respect when one driver is thrashing the other driver? It is unbelievable to me to hear some of the Alonso fans concerned about Massa's feelings. Give me a break.
 
Massa won't get a seat at Lotus.


Exactly, FA cares for FM as much as was shown in China 2010, HH 2010, etc.

#1405 as65p

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 16:16

Well, Massa outqualified Alonso today, so I guess that means that Kimi is faster than Alonso?

 

:drunk:

 

Of course. As much as RG outqualifying KR by an even bigger margin means that Romain is the second coming of Senna. :D



#1406 Atreiu

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 16:23

Perhaps they should have let Massa feel this greater freedome and lack of responsibility earlier. His qualifying has improved significantly despite it getting no easier in the top.



#1407 Fontainebleau

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 16:51

Perhaps they should have let Massa feel this greater freedome and lack of responsibility earlier. His qualifying has improved significantly despite it getting no easier in the top.

Wasn't his qualifying equally good in the last races in 2012?



#1408 RosannaG

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 17:05

Wasn't his qualifying equally good in the last races in 2012?

 

I remember one race in particular... Sadly it did not last long... I don't remember very well what happened to his gearbox...  :lol:



#1409 artista

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 17:06

Pretty safe to say he's not gonna be putting it on pole regularly next year, given the harder tyres.

But the car will be different, which might help him... or not.

Moreover, I was reading earlier this week somebody (was it Brawn? I've totally forgotten who that was) explaining the 100 kilo fuel is going to make things change so much that, probably, race strategies will have to be thought in a totally different way. I guess, it could make qualifying decide the race results à la 2008. But it also could turn qualifying into what's supposed to be: a system to place cars on the grid given that they can't all start from the same spot, but nothing else. Who knows?

I know, I know, I didn't discover the moon with this post :p

#1410 Artkab2013

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 17:13

Where reports "harder tyres next season" are came from?

 

If anything they should be softer in therm of operating window (means more grip), cause with aerodynamic limitations cars won't load them properly. But durability is another matter. Unrelated to soft/hard issues.


Edited by Artkab2013, 12 October 2013 - 17:16.


#1411 Vesuvius

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 17:26

Nice this has changed again to Kimi vs Alonso vs Massa thread...

#1412 bub

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 17:39

Attack?

 

Yes attack. If there no attack, what are people defending against?

 

What´s not normal is that a bunch of followers feel the need to start playing semantics to change the meaning of a silly statement and make it look reasonable.

 

It's also normal for people to have different opinions and interpret statements differently.

 

 It´s not that hard to admit your hero messed up.

 

 It's also not hard to accept that not everyone interprets things the same as you and not everyone rates your hero as highly (or the guy who beat him as low) as you do. I also don't see how rating Massa's speed as highly as Kimi's is messing up.


Edited by bub, 12 October 2013 - 17:50.


#1413 Skinnyguy

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 18:13

Yes attack. If there no attack, what are people defending against?

 

 

It's also normal for people to have different opinions and interpret statements differently.

 

 

 It's also not hard to accept that not everyone interprets things the same as you and not everyone rates your hero as highly (or the guy who beat him as low) as you do. I also don't see how rating Massa's speed as highly as Kimi's is messing up.

 

Your definition of attack is nonsense then.

 

- "Hey boy, stop bothering your brother with that noise you´re doing, it´s annoying".

- "Mum, don´t attack me!!"

 

Me saying this comment is rubbish isn´t attacking Alonso, it´s expressing my view on THIS COMMENT. If you can´t cope with that, and you need to start arguing semantics to make the statement look any reasonable, tough luck, it´s you having a problem.

 

People of course will interpret statements differently. Problem is when you try to say something that is directly contrary to what reality has shown and a bunch of worshippers try to find a way to make it look like something reasonable. There´s no way you can actually think 2008 is a better predictor for 2014 than 2012/13 is. Not only because of the way the series changed, also because of the way drivers changed.

 

I don´t care how you rate whoever. I have no problem admitting whoever doing a crap work, I said a ton of times Kimi was crap in 2008. On the other hand I do care if you try to justify your rating on stuff that has no relationship with anything that has been happening in the real world. I´ll have to laugh in your face if you think that Massa and Räikkönen are anywhere close to each other in speed, overall performance or whatever you want to call it.



#1414 Fontainebleau

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 18:33

I remember one race in particular... Sadly it did not last long... I don't remember very well what happened to his gearbox...  :lol:

Typical of certain type of fans: they don't care about giving credit to Massa when due, they just focus on bashing Alonso at any given opportunity.



#1415 bub

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 18:42

Your definition of attack is nonsense then.

 

- "Hey boy, stop bothering your brother with that noise you´re doing, it´s annoying".

- "Mum, don´t attack me!!"

 

Me saying this comment is rubbish isn´t attacking Alonso, it´s expressing my view on THIS COMMENT.

 

I don't think so.

I don't think anybody accused you personally of attacking FA. People were accusing Alonso of insulting Kimi. That is an attack imo. People were then defending Alonso by saying maybe he's actually complimenting Massa. 

 

 

 and you need to start arguing semantics to make the statement look any reasonable, tough luck, it´s you having a problem.

 

People of course will interpret statements differently. Problem is when you try to say something that is directly contrary to what reality has shown and a bunch of worshippers try to find a way to make it look like something reasonable. There´s no way you can actually think 2008 is a better predictor for 2014 than 2012/13 is. Not only because of the way the series changed, also because of the way drivers changed.

 

I don´t care how you rate whoever. I have no problem admitting whoever doing a crap work, I said a ton of times Kimi was crap in 2008. On the other hand I do care if you try to justify your rating on stuff that has no relationship with anything that has been happening in the real world. I´ll have to laugh in your face if you think that Massa and Räikkönen are anywhere close to each other in speed, overall performance or whatever you want to call it.

 

I don't think many people were agreeing with Alonso's statements about Massa's speed vs Kimi's. As I mentioned in an earlier post, most people were debating the intentions behind the comments. 

Regarding the people who were agreeing with Alonso's views on Kimi and Massa's relative speed - Even that isn't particularly outlandish considering it's impossible to compare the two as they drive different cars against different teammates and Massa has been a no.2 driver whereas Kimi has been lead driver. On top of that Massa's main deficiencies vs Kimi are consistency, mistake rate and wheel to wheel abilty etc, not so much speed. Even though I personally suspect Kimi is faster than Felipe, I don't think it's that crazy that Alonso and some others may think otherwise. Using Massa and Kimi's Ferrari stint as a basis for opinion is no sillier than using Kimi and Massa's recent performances in different cars against different teammates imo.


Edited by bub, 12 October 2013 - 18:45.


#1416 discover23

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 21:09

Seriously, what is this new 'Alonso being a caring-friend of Massa' propaganda I am hearing about? Where is the respect when one driver is thrashing the other driver? It is unbelievable to me to hear some of the Alonso fans concerned about Massa's feelings. Give me a break.

Massa won't get a seat at Lotus.

You have been contaminated by the f1 mentallity that teammates are supposed to be enemies off and on the track . Kimi is cold like most non latin europeans, that those not mean that everyone else has to be like that

#1417 discover23

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 21:12

Exactly, FA cares for FM as much as was shown in China 2010, HH 2010, etc.


That was their first year racing together three years ago.

#1418 RealRacing

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 21:56

You have been contaminated by the f1 mentallity that teammates are supposed to be enemies off and on the track . Kimi is cold like most non latin europeans, that those not mean that everyone else has to be like that


Spot the stereotype...

#1419 RealRacing

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 21:58

That was their first year racing together three years ago.


Exactly, if you cross your teammate at the pit entrance to be serviced first on your first races together, imagine how the rest of the time in the relationship developed. I'll tell you how: after Ferrari made clear to Massa where his place in the team was, FA started loving him.

Edited by RealRacing, 12 October 2013 - 22:01.


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#1420 RealRacing

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 22:05

Perhaps they should have let Massa feel this greater freedome and lack of responsibility earlier. His qualifying has improved significantly despite it getting no easier in the top.


Perhaps they should have adopted the strategy they are supposedly adopting with Kimi now 3 years ago...

#1421 Fontainebleau

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 22:32

Excuse me? Your are knocking at the wrong door... His own team and his teamate were the ones who did not give him enough credit...  

No, I am not. You took my post, in which I was pointing to Atreiu the quality of Massa's qualy performances in late 2012, and changed its focus to yet another attempt at bashing a driver you don't like. That type of attitude is not unfrequent here, but it gets tiring and boring for people who just want to talk about F1.

 

As for giving Massa credit, I remember Alonso defending him in the past and stating that Massa was a great driver, and certain people laughing at his words and resorting to the typical "he is just trying to big himself up" or "he just wants a non-competitive teammate" comments. Similar dismissals when Domenicalli praised him. So please spare me the "team and teammate did not give him enough credit" part.



#1422 RosannaG

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 23:17

No, I am not. You took my post, in which I was pointing to Atreiu the quality of Massa's qualy performances in late 2012, and changed its focus to yet another attempt at bashing a driver you don't like. That type of attitude is not unfrequent here, but it gets tiring and boring for people who just want to talk about F1.

 

As for giving Massa credit, I remember Alonso defending him in the past and stating that Massa was a great driver, and certain people laughing at his words and resorting to the typical "he is just trying to big himself up" or "he just wants a non-competitive teammate" comments. Similar dismissals when Domenicalli praised him. So please spare me the "team and teammate did not give him enough credit" part.

 

First of all, I beg your pardon for interfering in your conversation with Atreiu.

 

Second, of course some people laughed when Alonso or the team praised Massa... Usually that happens when words do not match actions... 



#1423 rasul

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 00:12

You have been contaminated by the f1 mentallity that teammates are supposed to be enemies off and on the track . Kimi is cold like most non latin europeans, that those not mean that everyone else has to be like that

Literally laughed out loud. 



#1424 El_Rápido

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 01:34


[...]Kimi is cold like most non latin europeans[...]

 

:lol:



#1425 Avastrol

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 04:03

[...]Kimi is cold like most non latin europeans[...]

 

:lol: Ah, it's been a while since I've seen a regionally-challenged post in the interwebs, been out for too lonng



#1426 Cool Beans

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 04:20

[...]Kimi is cold like most non latin europeans[...]

I'm trying to imagine an entire nation made up of Kimis. Now there's an image  :lol:



#1427 discover23

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 04:25

I exagerated obviously ..lol.
.. Kimi is the extreme and people love that about him so I am guessing his fans expect other drivers to act the same way, not giving a sh** about his teammate or the rest of the drivers. Contrast this to how Alonso talks about Massa when he is interviewed in spanish.
The complete opposite.

#1428 Kelateboy

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 04:28

Massa won't get a seat at Lotus.

 

I would agree with this assessment. Nothing against Massa but he has had his chance, it is time for young blood to take over.

 

The seat at Lotus might go to Hulkenberg if he can just get some financial backing, no matter how small it is.



#1429 OSX

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 16:52

Kimi is the extreme and people love that about him so I am guessing his fans expect other drivers to act the same way, not giving a sh** about his teammate or the rest of the drivers. Contrast this to how Alonso talks about Massa when he is interviewed in spanish.
The complete opposite.

Alonso only speaks highly of Massa to make himself look better and lately also to try and undermine Kimi. That is how the man and his ego operates and I've got nothing against that. That is who he is. And Kimi, like you said, is the complete opposite. But to say that Kimi doesn't give a shit about any other driver is rubbish. Lotus' third driver Davide Valsecchi has said that Kimi and Romain actually have a much closer working relationship than it seems and Kimi has also spoken highly of his close friend Vettel numerous times.



#1430 RealRacing

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 17:09

I exagerated obviously ..lol.
.. Kimi is the extreme and people love that about him so I am guessing his fans expect other drivers to act the same way, not giving a sh** about his teammate or the rest of the drivers. Contrast this to how Alonso talks about Massa when he is interviewed in spanish.
The complete opposite.


It's called hypocrisy. Or maybe because he's warm and extroverted, like most lat...hmmmnowait...

#1431 jedioriginal

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 18:03

There is nothing wrong with Alonso's comments. Storm in a tea cup...
Imo people are over reactin.

#1432 as65p

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 18:04

Alonso only speaks highly of Massa to make himself look better and lately also to try and undermine Kimi. That is how the man and his ego operates and I've got nothing against that. That is who he is. And Kimi, like you said, is the complete opposite. But to say that Kimi doesn't give a shit about any other driver is rubbish. Lotus' third driver Davide Valsecchi has said that Kimi and Romain actually have a much closer working relationship than it seems and Kimi has also spoken highly of his close friend Vettel numerous times.

 

:lol: One guy is bad, the other guy is good. That's all there is to it, eh?


Edited by as65p, 13 October 2013 - 18:04.


#1433 fabr68

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 18:13

Alonso only speaks highly of Massa to make himself look better and lately also to try and undermine Kimi. That is how the man and his ego operates and I've got nothing against that. That is who he is. And Kimi, like you said, is the complete opposite. But to say that Kimi doesn't give a shit about any other driver is rubbish. Lotus' third driver Davide Valsecchi has said that Kimi and Romain actually have a much closer working relationship than it seems and Kimi has also spoken highly of his close friend Vettel numerous times.

Man that is some serious paranoia.

Thank goodness no reporter has asked Alonso to rate Groshjean against Raikkonen.

Some Raikkonen fans more than make up for all the shit he does not give about.

Edited by fabr68, 13 October 2013 - 18:15.


#1434 mardmarium

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 18:53

Alonso only speaks highly of Massa to make himself look better and lately also to try and undermine Kimi. That is how the man and his ego operates and I've got nothing against that. That is who he is. And Kimi, like you said, is the complete opposite. But to say that Kimi doesn't give a shit about any other driver is rubbish. Lotus' third driver Davide Valsecchi has said that Kimi and Romain actually have a much closer working relationship than it seems and Kimi has also spoken highly of his close friend Vettel numerous times.

 

You talk as if you know him from childhood. You are describing the way he thinks and acts in ordinary life and it seems that you are stating facts, not expressing an opinion. The same could be said about the people who state that Raikkonen doesn´t care about anything or anyone…what I´ve been reading in this thread for some days doesn´t seem to be about the drivers, it seems to be about the human beings and I get the feeling that we are talking about some kind of reality TV instead of F1. I guess I shouldn´t say anything because I have taken part of it, but it´s been several days talking about drivers personalities and I would like to know who really knows them here. Not me, for sure. 



#1435 Skinnyguy

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 19:07

You are describing the way he thinks and acts in ordinary life and it seems that you are stating facts, not expressing an opinion.

 

Challenge: tell us another explanation (that makes any sense) for him to grab 5 years ago stuff as a more valid predictor than current stuff in order to determine how it´ll go next year.

 

I mean, everyone can see that´s nonsense, the only question is: why he feels the need to talk nonsense? If you have another explanation that makes more sense than the one you´re arguing against, I´d like to hear it.



#1436 OSX

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 19:13

:lol: One guy is bad, the other guy is good. That's all there is to it, eh?

No, that is not what I meant. I just said that they're different. Alonso plays mind games, like we all know, and Kimi doesn't. Nothing to do with childish bad guy/good guy bullshit.



#1437 mardmarium

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 19:14

Challenge: tell us another explanation (that makes any sense) for him to grab 5 years ago stuff as a more valid predictor than current stuff in order to determine how it´ll go next year.

 

I mean, everyone can see that´s nonsense, the only question is: why he feels the need to talk nonsense? If you have another explanation that makes more sense than the one you´re arguing against, I´d like to hear it.

 

I´ve explained in several posts what I think about it, I have nothing new to add. In any case, I would like to know who really knows them, maybe there is someone here.



#1438 OSX

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 19:21

You talk as if you know him from childhood. You are describing the way he thinks and acts in ordinary life and it seems that you are stating facts, not expressing an opinion.

I do not know how Alonso was as a child or how he acts in ordinary life. All I know and see is how he acts and has acted as a F1 driver. And I wasn't critising him. Everyone knows Alonso likes to play mind games and Kimi doesn't. They're different that way. Simple as that.



#1439 as65p

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 19:26

No, that is not what I meant. I just said that they're different. Alonso plays mind games, like we all know, and Kimi doesn't. Nothing to do with childish bad guy/good guy bullshit.

 

a) not everything Alonso says is mindgaming

b) KR's distinctive attitude is ultimately a mindgame too, just a different kind.



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#1440 as65p

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 19:31

Challenge: tell us another explanation (that makes any sense) for him to grab 5 years ago stuff as a more valid predictor than current stuff in order to determine how it´ll go next year.

 

I mean, everyone can see that´s nonsense, the only question is: why he feels the need to talk nonsense? If you have another explanation that makes more sense than the one you´re arguing against, I´d like to hear it.

 

What current stuff? You mean instead of comparing him with Massa when they drove equal cars in the past, Alonso should have pointed out how currently he finishes in front of Kimi every other sunday?



#1441 swerved

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 19:58

I exagerated obviously ..lol.
.. Kimi is the extreme and people love that about him so I am guessing his fans expect other drivers to act the same way, not giving a sh** about his teammate or the rest of the drivers. Contrast this to how Alonso talks about Massa when he is interviewed in spanish.
The complete opposite.

 

 

Polar opposite, Kimi's approach is straightforward, open, and honest.

 

Alonso's mindgames are petty and immature, though at times they are amusing, mildly.



#1442 Seanspeed

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 21:30

I weep for next year's Ferrari thread. :(  



#1443 mzvztag

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 21:38

Polar opposite, Kimi's approach is straightforward, open, and honest.

Alonso's mindgames are petty and immature, though at times they are amusing, mildly.


That's your opinion, not necessarily true or even commonly accepted.

#1444 Claudius

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 06:42

Just when I warm up to Alonso he opens his mouth...
To me that was a clear dig at Kimi.
I don't know what he thinks he will achieve with it.

#1445 Smirnov

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 06:50

That's your opinion, not necessarily true or even commonly accepted.

 

Well, that is only your opinion about it is not commonly accepted. Only few die hard Alonso fans will say it is ok with what he said.

 

Honest & Respect. I see little in Alonso.



#1446 mzvztag

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 07:47

Factually, Alonso did not state anything wrong but I agree that it might be a little unnecessary.

#1447 seahawk

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 07:51

It will be interesting how this will work if Ferrari builds a bad car next year. Alonso will be highly frustrated and how much Kimi will give to fight for 8th place will have to be seen.



#1448 Konsta

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 08:03

Factually, Alonso did not state anything wrong but I agree that it might be a little unnecessary.

:up:

That was what I meant when I said that sometimes it would be better if FA just would not say certain things. It is not helpful if you tell beforehand that he does not think that his employers made a good decision. That is how it could be interpreted when he said that he does not think that the results would be better with Kimi on board if the car remains the same. Why the heck was Felipe ditched if FA and KR together would not make a stronger pairing?



#1449 discover23

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 08:05

Factually, Alonso did not state anything wrong but I agree that it might be a little unnecessary.

Unnecessry only because it upsets kimi's fans?
Should that really be on top of aalonso's agenda?
Kimi is unmoved by these comments anyway so..

#1450 fastdriver

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 09:11

Unnecessry only because it upsets kimi's fans?

 

No.