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Massa exits Ferrari from 2014 [split]


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#201 noikeee

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 14:45

The amazing thing is people here making posts saying they wished Massa had won the title in 2008. Amazing! It would have been a lot more sad it Hamilton had lost the championship on the last race of the season 2 years in a row. Nothing Hamilton has done would have made him deserve that. Clearly he is faster than Massa and most of the field. As a matter of fact it would have been a tragedy if he was running around with 0 championships while Massa was running around as Nando's servant  as a former champion. The right man won the title despite the disgrace the whole Spa incident was.

 

I agree Hamilton was the better driver that year and therefore was the right champion, but I think everyone felt bad for the way Massa lost it. Completely surpassed all pre-season expectations, risen up to the challenge at the decisive moment of the championship... it felt like the title would've been a fitting reward for him. He was a deserving champion too, in a storyline kind of way, not a mathematical performance points counting kind of way.



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#202 SPBHM

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 14:47

The amazing thing is people here making posts saying they wished Massa had won the title in 2008. Amazing! It would have been a lot more sad it Hamilton had lost the championship on the last race of the season 2 years in a row. Nothing Hamilton has done would have made him deserve that. Clearly he is faster than Massa and most of the field. As a matter of fact it would have been a tragedy if he was running around with 0 championships while Massa was running around as Nando's servant  as a former champion. The right man won the title despite the disgrace the whole Spa incident was.

 

 

I hope Massa ends up at another team but he might revert to the bitter 2011 Massa who would rather crash than let Hamilton pass him. I would not really be sad if he has to move on from F1.

 


 

Hamilton lost 2007 because of his mistakes on the last moment, Massa made a perfect race in Brazil 2008.

 

I think both Hamilton and Massa deserved the title in 2008 equally... both had super fast cars (Massa had a more difficult teammate to beat), won some races, made some mistakes, had some bad luck... but obviously only one guy could win...

 

but the way it ended, and how obvious Hungary and Singapore were not his fault makes it easy to feel sorry for Massa not winning I think.

 

blaming Massa for most of the "MassaxHamilton" incidents in 2011 is foolish.



#203 Electric

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 18:25

He should have won the WDC in 2008 - Crashgate is the biggest disgrace for F1 & FIA.   I hope Massa will write a book some day...  

 

Agreed.  Massa is WDC material and if FIA did something about it he should have been awarded WDC for 08.  Good luck Massa I hope you get a seat where you can shine before leaving F1.



#204 jstrains

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 18:56

 

 

Hamilton lost 2007 because of his mistakes on the last moment, Massa made a perfect race in Brazil 2008.

 

I think both Hamilton and Massa deserved the title in 2008 equally... both had super fast cars (Massa had a more difficult teammate to beat), won some races, made some mistakes, had some bad luck... but obviously only one guy could win...

 

but the way it ended, and how obvious Hungary and Singapore were not his fault makes it easy to feel sorry for Massa not winning I think.

 

blaming Massa for most of the "MassaxHamilton" incidents in 2011 is foolish.

 

Same for Fernando last year. Just think of Spa and Japan



#205 Fastcake

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 19:09

Hamilton lost 2007 because of his mistakes on the last moment, Massa made a perfect race in Brazil 2008.

 

I think both Hamilton and Massa deserved the title in 2008 equally... both had super fast cars (Massa had a more difficult teammate to beat), won some races, made some mistakes, had some bad luck... but obviously only one guy could win...

 

but the way it ended, and how obvious Hungary and Singapore were not his fault makes it easy to feel sorry for Massa not winning I think.

 

blaming Massa for most of the "MassaxHamilton" incidents in 2011 is foolish.

 

It's easy to go down the what could of been avenue, but can anyone say for certain what would of happened if Massa's engine had not blown in Hungary? I've seen the argument above that Crashgate cost Massa the title, would anyone like to explain how the FIA doing anything about that race would of handed the WDC to Massa? He still finished 12th because his team released him with the fuel hose attached, which could of happened with or without Briatore arranging his disgusting stunt. And then you have to look at some of the incidents involving Hamilton, Spa especially, and the whole year evens itself out again.

 

It's better to focus on what Massa actually achieved. Winning multiple races is no mean feat.



#206 sv401

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 19:15

He still finished 12th because his team released him with the fuel hose attached, which could of happened with or without Briatore arranging his disgusting stunt.

 

The team released Massa with the fuel hose attached because of being under pressure to pit both cars very quickly (that is, Raikkonen was already queued behind, and waiting), and that was because of a safety car after a certain driver crashing.



#207 bourbon

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 19:15

It's easy to go down the what could of been avenue, but can anyone say for certain what would of happened if Massa's engine had not blown in Hungary? I've seen the argument above that Crashgate cost Massa the title, would anyone like to explain how the FIA doing anything about that race would of handed the WDC to Massa? He still finished 12th because his team released him with the fuel hose attached, which could of happened with or without Briatore arranging his disgusting stunt. And then you have to look at some of the incidents involving Hamilton, Spa especially, and the whole year evens itself out again.

 

It's better to focus on what Massa actually achieved. Winning multiple races is no mean feat.

 

Massa didn't though.  Remember the beginning of 2010 when he held the press conference and pinpointed crashgate as the reason he lost the title?  While I agree that a title is won or lost throughout the year, if I remember correctly, the decision to call Massa in early was due to the incident and they were rushing on account of it being a double last minute pit and hence, the attached fuel hose.  I think drivers count on incidents and reliability issues, but it is harsh when adventures like crashgate have to be counted in.  I'll see if I can find the article.

 

http://www.dailymail...ogy-Felipe.html

 

http://www.theroar.c...r-of-crashgate/


Edited by bourbon, 14 September 2013 - 19:25.


#208 V3TT3L

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 20:54

http://www1.skysport...plete-team-mate

 

"Schumacher was very, very good. He was amazing and a very complete driver as well. But I think maybe Alonso is even more perfect."



#209 prty

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 22:17

http://www1.skysport...plete-team-mate

 

"Schumacher was very, very good. He was amazing and a very complete driver as well. But I think maybe Alonso is even more perfect."

 

 

Love how Brundle asks "why?" as expecting he would mention politics as a reason and continue his propaganda, but how surprised he was with the answer :lol:

 

Edit: cool glasses


Edited by prty, 14 September 2013 - 22:21.


#210 George Costanza

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 22:47

Massa only paired with Schumacher for one season. If he was paired with Schumacher in the 1995-2000 time frame, he probably wouldn't say that about Fernando being more complete than Schumacher.

 

Because anyone who watched Michael in the 1990s knows how quick he was. To make a note, I do enjoy Fernando Alonso and really admire his approach toward driving, he is like Alian Prost.


Edited by George Costanza, 14 September 2013 - 22:52.


#211 sv401

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 23:03

http://www1.skysport...plete-team-mate

 

"Schumacher was very, very good. He was amazing and a very complete driver as well. But I think maybe Alonso is even more perfect."

 

Well, saying anything else would not improve his chances of finding a job after being beaten badly for years.



#212 DeLoreanFan

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Posted 14 September 2013 - 23:15

I sense some sour grapes here. Maybe cause Kimi is taking his place? Oh well, it will be hard for me to read F1 news from now on until 2014 season begins; with all these experts opinions, drivers interviews about who is better at this or at that, predictions... etc. And the funny thing is that most of them always get it wrong. One that comes to mind is LH moving to Mercedes. I am glad to say that I did not think anything about it, even though I love Macca. I just chose to wait and see.

 

BTW, Thanks for everything Massa! 

 

PS: Please Massa don't start talking/playing games now. Starting 2014 you will be a Free Man!



#213 Eff One 2002

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 01:00

So what now for Felipe? Retirement? Lotus? Force India? Some other midfield team?



#214 discover23

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 01:45

I sense some sour grapes here. Maybe cause Kimi is taking his place? Oh well, it will be hard for me to read F1 news from now on until 2014 season begins; with all these experts opinions, drivers interviews about who is better at this or at that, predictions... etc. And the funny thing is that most of them always get it wrong. One that comes to mind is LH moving to Mercedes. I am glad to say that I did not think anything about it, even though I love Macca. I just chose to wait and see. BTW, Thanks for everything Massa! PS: Please Massa don't start talking/playing games now. Starting 2014 you will be a Free Man!

So if they Ask him who was his stronger teammate what do you want him to say?
What you want to hear or the truth?
Sour grapes is reading some people's reactions in here when they read someone from F1 praising Alonso..

Edited by discover23, 15 September 2013 - 01:53.


#215 DeLoreanFan

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 02:14

So if they Ask him who was his stronger teammate what do you want him to say? What you want to hear or the truth?

I'm surprised cause I never heard him talking about teammates before. Even here in Brazil. His talks throughout the years with the Brazilian press were always about do better and fight for the WDC. Why now? He said it before, a week ago and now.  I am not questioning if it is true or not, I am questioning the timing of such revelations. But I guess I'll have to get used to it until next season begins.  



#216 discover23

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 02:23

You should watch or read the full interviews - the reporters are asking him this specitic question. I have seen it twice already ..

#217 drag

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 03:04

Thats interesting coming from Massa ,but even we as a fans could see past 4 years that Alonso was almost every race faster that Massa so maybe its no surprise that he is giving him such a praise.



#218 Lights

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 07:38

Well, saying anything else would not improve his chances of finding a job after being beaten badly for years.

 

Perhaps but this interview seems to have been recorded before the decision was made?



#219 sv401

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 08:43

Perhaps but this interview seems to have been recorded before the decision was made?

 

I am not sure when it was recorded exactly, but for the last couple of months, he should have been aware of the possibility of this decision, with all the Raikkonen to Ferrari rumors.



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#220 wrcva

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 09:04

Perhaps but this interview seems to have been recorded before the decision was made?

 

looks like you are correct... 

 

"Speaking in an interview with Sky Sports F1's Martin Brundle conducted before his impending departure from Ferrari was confirmed, Massa said: "I've always had very strong team-mates. I always learnt that you need to be perfect because if you're not perfect they will be in front of you....

...With Tuesday's subsequent news meaning the Brazilian's Ferrari career now has just seven races to run, Massa has been linked with the seat currently occupied by Raikkonen at Lotus for 2014, although Nico Hulkenberg is considered the favourite for the drive, or a return to Sauber."

http://www1.skysport...plete-team-mate

 



#221 dav115

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 15:22

In any case it's quite a moot point - Schumacher was 37 when Massa raced him at Ferrari. Even then, I'll never forget Brazil 2006 where Schumacher was almost getting blue flags to let Massa through after his puncture, yet by the end of the race had cut the gap to Massa from ~70 secs to below 25 secs. FWIW I think Alonso has been spectacular since mid 2010, but let's wait and see if he's driving in 2018 like Schumacher did in 2006.

 

Back on topic, it wouldn't surprise me if Ferrari gave Sauber a nice little discount on the 2014 powertrain in return for them running Massa for a year or two, out of courtesy to Felipe.



#222 ViMaMo

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 15:54

Massa is a fantastic racer, wish him all the best wherever he goes.  :up:



#223 DeLoreanFan

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 16:04

In any case it's quite a moot point - Schumacher was 37 when Massa raced him at Ferrari. Even then, I'll never forget Brazil 2006 where Schumacher was almost getting blue flags to let Massa through after his puncture, yet by the end of the race had cut the gap to Massa from ~70 secs to below 25 secs. FWIW I think Alonso has been spectacular since mid 2010, but let's wait and see if he's driving in 2018 like Schumacher did in 2006.

 

Back on topic, it wouldn't surprise me if Ferrari gave Sauber a nice little discount on the 2014 powertrain in return for them running Massa for a year or two, out of courtesy to Felipe.

I agree with the bolded part. That is why I'm going to wait until next year to have an IDEA where the Ferrari drivers abilities stand if that assessment will ever be possible . Talks and interviews now will mean nothing in 2014.

 

I am hoping he has a final chance next year. Although, I would rather see him moving out of F1 like Kimi did in 2010 and Webber will do in 2014. As a fan I appreciate decisions like that.



#224 kosmos

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 16:10

He said on the Brazilian TV that he is talking with Macca and Lotus,.



#225 DeLoreanFan

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 16:29

He said on the Brazilian TV that he is talking with Macca and Lotus,.

Macca? Did you say Macca? Oh my god! :up:  



#226 luispaulob

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 16:34

Macca? Did you say Macca? Oh my god! :up:  

Yeap.. He said there were GOOD talks with McLaren, to replace Perez, apparently, and VERY GOOD talks with Lotus...

 

He seemed pretty confindentn not usual for a guy who, normally, doesn't have a seat for next year.


Edited by luispaulob, 15 September 2013 - 16:35.


#227 GuilhermeMach

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 17:11

Yeap.. He said there were GOOD talks with McLaren, to replace Perez, apparently, and VERY GOOD talks with Lotus...

 

He seemed pretty confindentn not usual for a guy who, normally, doesn't have a seat for next year.

 

Not exactly true - he only said there were 'talks' with McLaren, when the interviewer asked if the talks were good, he said he didn't know exactly how good they were. Not ruling it out, not very confident either. He did confirm however that the talks with Lotus were very good indeed.

 

What caught my attention though is how he said he's not going to help Alonso for these 7 next races :clap:



#228 DeLoreanFan

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 17:27

Not exactly true - he only said there were 'talks' with McLaren, when the interviewer asked if the talks were good, he said he didn't know exactly how good they were. Not ruling it out, not very confident either. He did confirm however that the talks with Lotus were very good indeed.

 

What caught my attention though is how he said he's not going to help Alonso for these 7 next races :clap:

Perhaps are we going to see the real Massa? Hooray! Bring it on Massa!



#229 Ferrari2183

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 17:35

Not exactly true - he only said there were 'talks' with McLaren, when the interviewer asked if the talks were good, he said he didn't know exactly how good they were. Not ruling it out, not very confident either. He did confirm however that the talks with Lotus were very good indeed.

What caught my attention though is how he said he's not going to help Alonso for these 7 next races :clap:

Not gonna happen. Should Alonso get back in the championship race by some miracle and he pulls a stunt like that then he won't even see out the remaining races.

#230 montoyasminion

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 17:36

People wish Massa won the title because he lost it due to two events out of his hands, the blown engine with a runaway lead, and the pit release with the hose attached, also with the lead. Only person to blame losing the 2008 title is Ferrari

#231 SPBHM

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 17:43

http://translate.goo...o-resto-de-2013



#232 luispaulob

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 17:48

Not exactly true - he only said there were 'talks' with McLaren, when the interviewer asked if the talks were good, he said he didn't know exactly how good they were. Not ruling it out, not very confident either. He did confirm however that the talks with Lotus were very good indeed.

 

What caught my attention though is how he said he's not going to help Alonso for these 7 next races :clap:

At the very end, he qualified talks with McLaren as good, and talks with Lotus as very good..

 

Yes, I hope we will see the real Massa at these last 7 races, like last year..  :clap:



#233 DeLoreanFan

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 17:49

Not gonna happen. Should Alonso get back in the championship race by some miracle and he pulls a stunt like that then he won't even see out the remaining races.

Fair enough :up:  And then Pedro de La Rosa will help Alonso. But at least Massa would have found himself as a driver. But I think what he'll do is to drive the best he can to impress other teams, that's all.



#234 GuilhermeMach

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 18:44

Not gonna happen. Should Alonso get back in the championship race by some miracle and he pulls a stunt like that then he won't even see out the remaining races.

 

I was just reporting what he said :) Personally I'm not convincend - mostly because I doubt he'll be close to Alonso anyway - but he sounded very adamant, he even laughed when asked if he was gonna help Alonso.



#235 discover23

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 18:49

Don't you all think he is been trying yo drive his best to impress Ferrari in the last few races with the hope of being retained by the team. Massa's pace will never be good enough to challenge Alonso or RedBull ... He lost to Webber on the last race while Alonso kept him behind..
I do think however that he will be a tough challenge for Button at Mclaren and would beat Grosjean in the Lotus.

#236 Konsta

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 18:56

Massa is a fantastic racer, wish him all the best wherever he goes.  :up:

I politely disagree. Felipe seems like a genuinely nice guy and on his prime he was a mighty qualifier but as a RACER he was at best adequate and at worst just horrendously awful.

 

Nevertheless I wish that he gets to drive for a decent team in F1 if that is what he wants to do.



#237 Zava

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 18:59

Not exactly true - he only said there were 'talks' with McLaren, when the interviewer asked if the talks were good, he said he didn't know exactly how good they were. Not ruling it out, not very confident either. He did confirm however that the talks with Lotus were very good indeed.

 

What caught my attention though is how he said he's not going to help Alonso for these 7 next races :clap:

pity he didn't think of that earlier, he effectively gave up a goodbye-podium last weekend.  :well:



#238 sopa

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 19:07

Yeah, in 2008 Massa deserved the title as much as Hamilton, but in retrospect it would be feeling weird. 

 

Like Webber being a WDC in 2010 and during 2011 getting trashed by non-WDC Vettel.

 

Then again we have seen this in MotoGP with Hayden. He as a champion has been beaten by non-champion team-mates of Pedrosa (from 2007 onwards) and Dovizioso. If you think about it, it does feel a little bit odd. But that's life.



#239 DeLoreanFan

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 20:47

I was just reporting what he said :) Personally I'm not convincend - mostly because I doubt he'll be close to Alonso anyway - but he sounded very adamant, he even laughed when asked if he was gonna help Alonso.

 I said in my earlier posts I was surprised him talking about teammates and now this. I understand he wants to talk about his Ferrari years, he can even write a book if he wants, but now? I don't think is the time. Reporters will ask him these kind of questions to put fuel into the fire, but he needs to be wise and avoid them. He is not making friends or doing himself any favors by making teammates comparisons and statements like this one. I think he needs to exit Ferrari gracefully. And the best exit is to drive the best he can which I hope is what he has in mind.  



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#240 Eff One 2002

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Posted 15 September 2013 - 22:53

 

What caught my attention though is how he said he's not going to help Alonso for these 7 next races :clap:

Now THAT will be interesting to watch...



#241 oetzi

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 00:21

I politely disagree. Felipe seems like a genuinely nice guy and on his prime he was a mighty qualifier but as a RACER he was at best adequate and at worst just horrendously awful.

 

Nevertheless I wish that he gets to drive for a decent team in F1 if that is what he wants to do.

 

He was properly quick before he got hurt. There's no way a bit of junk through your head at that speed doesn't change something. He may never have been the best wheel to wheel, but he could win races and qualify on pole.



#242 Ian G

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 00:54

Yep,never the same post 2009 accident despite occassional glimpses of form.I notice on my trips around the web that Mark has been quoted as saying Vettel will be at Ferrari in 2015 or 2016.



#243 Oho

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 07:45

Not gonna happen. Should Alonso get back in the championship race by some miracle and he pulls a stunt like that then he won't even see out the remaining races.

Do you think he gives a toss?

 

What ever damage Massa did to his chances of securing another seat for 2014 by giving Ferrari the proverbial finger would hardly be compounded by Ferrari sacking him on the spot.


Edited by Oho, 16 September 2013 - 09:11.


#244 Yoshi

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 07:59

According to Twitter (Pitlanetalk), Massa is negotiating with Mclaren, but Lotus is his main priority.



#245 Konsta

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 08:13

He was properly quick before he got hurt. There's no way a bit of junk through your head at that speed doesn't change something. He may never have been the best wheel to wheel, but he could win races and qualify on pole.

That was exactly what I was implying. He was very fast and especially on qualifyings but as a RACER he lacks a lot. One of the clearest examples were his collisions with LH. Not to put the blame squarely on Felipe on all of them but people like FA or KR faced similar situations and walked away unscathed.



#246 oetzi

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 09:07

I think the Hamilton clashes were largely down to Felipe refusing to be intimidated out of the way, and fair play to him for that. Just my impression at the time, and I don't want to derail things by starting a big discussion over it. 

 

The simple fact is that he was one of those drivers who could take a fast car and put it in the right place then bring it home, but if the car wasn't right he'd sometimes struggle a little. He was as quick as Raikonnen when he was comfortable, and a lot of people say that Kimi was the outright quickest driver out there at the time, so I don't see any reason to belittle what Felipe achieved. 

 

It looks like McLaren and Lotus reckon he's still worth talking to now, and I hope he does well wherever he ends up.



#247 Oho

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 09:14

 

 

The simple fact is that he was one of those drivers who could take a fast car and put it in the right place then bring it home, but if the car wasn't right he'd sometimes struggle a little.

Well Massa still seems very fast at least at times, quite often actually, but has a bad tendency to fade in the races, but then the same seems to be true for Webber and Grosjean as well.


Edited by Oho, 16 September 2013 - 09:25.


#248 noikeee

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 09:54

Yeah, in 2008 Massa deserved the title as much as Hamilton, but in retrospect it would be feeling weird. 

 

Like Webber being a WDC in 2010 and during 2011 getting trashed by non-WDC Vettel.

 

Then again we have seen this in MotoGP with Hayden. He as a champion has been beaten by non-champion team-mates of Pedrosa (from 2007 onwards) and Dovizioso. If you think about it, it does feel a little bit odd. But that's life.

 

2 words: Jacques Villeneuve.  :p



#249 oetzi

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 10:57

Well Massa still seems very fast at least at times, quite often actually, but has a bad tendency to fade in the races, but then the same seems to be true for Webber and Grosjean as well.

 

Brain injuries can often lead to difficulties in concentration. I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case with Felipe.  Which is a great shame, but at least he's able to lead a good life, which no one could be sure of immediately after his injury.



#250 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 16 September 2013 - 11:37

Massa has no beef with Alonso or the Ferrari team. He knows he did not do a good enough job for the last 4 seasons and that is why he is out. Simple as that. Maybe his ego was too fragile that he couldn't play the supporting role to Alonso and his confidence and ability waned as a result. I know I would be similar as would many other drivers. 

 

However, now the pressure is off, he will see out his contract but I also think he'll push Fernando harder than before because he is effectively also auditioning to the other teams as well as also saying 'look, I'm not a B-level driver, I'm not shot-to-sh*t either and I can get the job done".

 

I think he'll be at another team next year, probably Sauber, which is why I also think he'll do the best job for Ferrari as they could give him a boost (and Sauber a discount on the engines) towards that seat.