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Schumi vs Alonso vs Kimi in Scuderia Ferrari


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#1 Tarzaan

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 18:45

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(Source: Titi120 :wave: )

 

Note: click for the full size image (5th column)!


Edited by Tarzaan, 12 September 2013 - 18:46.


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#2 Shiroo

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 18:50

You cant compare Schumi with Alonso and Raikkonen.

 

Ferrari was on level of RBR back then, or even better likej in 2004.



#3 Tarzaan

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 18:54

You cant compare Schumi with Alonso and Raikkonen.

 

Ferrari was on level of RBR back then, or even better likej in 2004.

 

 

Your first sentence is a big truth. They are not in the same level.

 

But.

 

The Ferrari with schumi also have to fight a Newey team (Williamsn and later McLaren) and with schumi they can win. And when MS went to Ferrari, they was in low form, but when Kimi or Alonso arrived, the Ferrari was a top team.


Edited by Tarzaan, 12 September 2013 - 18:54.


#4 fabr68

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 19:00

Show me the Rosberg vs MSchumacher vs Hamilton in Mercedes chart.

#5 TheUltimateWorrier

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 19:01

I'm lost on the first set of statistics. Schumachers 5 Ferrari titles = 45% of what? Same with Raikkonen, why is 1 title equal to 33% ?  :confused:



#6 Lone

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 19:13

I'm lost on the first set of statistics. Schumachers 5 Ferrari titles = 45% of what? Same with Raikkonen, why is 1 title equal to 33% ?  :confused:


Amount of titles during years of driving for Ferrari. Kimi 3 years 1 title = 33%

#7 Tarzaan

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 19:14

Show me the Rosberg vs MSchumacher vs Hamilton in Mercedes chart.

 

+ the results in their first 250 races/after 40 years results...

 

Schumi/Kimi/Alsono join Ferrari in the same period of their carrier.

 

 

I'm lost on the first set of statistics. Schumachers 5 Ferrari titles = 45% of what? Same with Raikkonen, why is 1 title equal to 33% ?  :confused:

Maybe the WDC/seasons rate...


Edited by Tarzaan, 12 September 2013 - 19:20.


#8 eronrules

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 19:28

you know what, i expect this sort of things from Antonio Lobato , he likes to stir shit up with this sort of stats. 

 

https://twitter.com/alobatof1

 

which are meaningless off course

 

why ... ???

 

1. different era 

2. different championship rivals, with the no# of teams capable of winning (e.g during M.Sc era, only mclaren and williams, during alonso era 5 teams etc)

3. reliability of car/ engine

4. relative strength of the rest of the drivers

5. different management, engineering talent etc etc 

 

so you see, it's all fine and dandy with stats, but there is a saying in F1,

 

past glory is never an assurance of Future success



#9 fisssssi

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 20:03

Amazing how many podiums Alonso has with (relatively) so few wins.

 

Schumi: 116 podiums - 72 wins = 34 x 2nd/3rd places

Alonso: 40 podiums - 11 wins = 29 x 2nd/3rd places

 

It's almost equal!



#10 sopa

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 20:08

Only thing that caught my attention are pole positions. 4 for Alonso and 5 five Raikkonen. This despite the Ferrari of last four years hasn't been a qualifying car, yet Massa got a lot of poles back in 2007-08, when Ferrari was very much on top of things on Saturdays.



#11 V3TT3L

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 20:22

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#12 DrF

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 20:23

How can you compare a driver who had the benefit of unlimited testing, unlimited budget, a tame team mate and tyres specifically designed for his car?

Not to mention how he was thrashed by both these guys as soon as all these benefits dropped away (in 2005).

#13 eronrules

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 20:32

How can you compare a driver who had the benefit of unlimited testing, unlimited budget, a tame team mate and tyres specifically designed for his car?

Not to mention how he was thrashed by both these guys as soon as all these benefits dropped away (in 2005).

:up: 

 

exactly my point. not to mention different sets of regulation, testing limits, effect of different tire  manufacturers, DRS, KERS etc etc so many variables to consider. its' even not possible to compare one year from the next. So,  comparing kimi's stint with Alonso's stint or with Schumi's stint is plain stupid IMO.  :o

 

p.s i know i'm sounding like a broken record, but you just CAN'T compare different stint of different drivers in different ERA of motorsport. it's the FACT



#14 Atreiu

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 20:37

Totally different everything.



#15 George Costanza

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 20:49

Can't really compare. Michael's time at Ferrari had a perfect harmony in the team. Like Red Bull currently.



#16 George Costanza

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 20:50

How can you compare a driver who had the benefit of unlimited testing, unlimited budget, a tame team mate and tyres specifically designed for his car?

Not to mention how he was thrashed by both these guys as soon as all these benefits dropped away (in 2005).

 

 

Yet in 2006, Michael nearly won the championship versus the same two guys.... And that was not even vintage Michael Schumacher. He made quite few mistakes in 2006, that would have been unseen or unheard of 4 years earlier.


Edited by George Costanza, 12 September 2013 - 20:54.


#17 prty

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 22:49

And despite all those statistics, Alonso beat Schumacher in 2006 in a straight fight, even taking into account things like Monza penalty or the mass damper ban.



#18 ChrisAttebery

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 23:01

I think Kimi has the record for most DNFs from the race lead during his McClaren days. Alonzo inherited a few wins from him because of it. Kimi's stats don't accurately depict how good of a driver he is. 



#19 scheivlak

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 23:13

Yet in 2006, Michael nearly won the championship versus the same two guys.... And that was not even vintage Michael Schumacher. He made quite few mistakes in 2006, that would have been unseen or unheard of 4 years earlier.

Maybe because his task in 2002 was easier. One tends to make mistakes under pressure, and the pressure in 2006 was immense. 

That said, Michael IMHO still made very few mistakes in 2006, just out of my head I remember Melbourne, Monaco ?! (Rascasse in Q, but that was a calculated one, so the mistake was in the calculation and not as a driver) and Hungary (simply overambitious). And he scored some wins that should be very highly regarded just because of the fierceness of the opposition like in Imola and Shanghai.

 

Don't forget either that he did make mistakes in 2002-  maybe not because of the pressure but as a result of overconfidence, like in Malaysia and at the finishline of the US GP.


Edited by scheivlak, 12 September 2013 - 23:13.


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#20 Winter98

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Posted 12 September 2013 - 23:16

And despite all those statistics, Alonso beat Schumacher in 2006 in a straight fight, even taking into account things like Monza penalty or the mass damper ban.

Yeah, time waits for no man, even the great MS.

 

Alonso doesn't have many years left.



#21 George Costanza

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 00:49

Maybe because his task in 2002 was easier. One tends to make mistakes under pressure, and the pressure in 2006 was immense. 

That said, Michael IMHO still made very few mistakes in 2006, just out of my head I remember Melbourne, Monaco ?! (Rascasse in Q, but that was a calculated one, so the mistake was in the calculation and not as a driver) and Hungary (simply overambitious). And he scored some wins that should be very highly regarded just because of the fierceness of the opposition like in Imola and Shanghai.

 

Don't forget either that he did make mistakes in 2002-  maybe not because of the pressure but as a result of overconfidence, like in Malaysia and at the finishline of the US GP.

 

I thought 2000 pressure was far greater than 2006, but you are right about the mistakes. I don't think anyone handled the 2000 season preasure better than Schumacher, it waa quite a display.



#22 Tron

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 01:49

Stats are like Bikinis.

 

They reveal a lot, but hide all the important bits.

 

:wave:



#23 Jimisgod

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 03:27

Your first sentence is a big truth. They are not in the same level.

But.

The Ferrari with schumi also have to fight a Newey team (Williamsn and later McLaren) and with schumi they can win. And when MS went to Ferrari, they was in low form, but when Kimi or Alonso arrived, the Ferrari was a top team.


The 2009 Ferrari was not a top car.

It scored one win, which was the same as the 1995 car the year before Schumacher arrived. Ferrari have been behind the 8 ball for the entire post-2008 regulations era.

#24 Diablobb81

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 05:57

Not really comparable since Micheal is in a different league. j/k :p

 

 

But i have to say that Alonso's number of podiums is really impressive.



#25 Tarzaan

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 07:59

How can you compare a driver who had the benefit of unlimited testing, unlimited budget, a tame team mate and tyres specifically designed for his car?

Not to mention how he was thrashed by both these guys as soon as all these benefits dropped away (in 2005).

 

In thoose years the whole grid enjoy the advantages of unlimited testing. And thoose years there are also 2-3 teams with more or less the same budget as Ferrari.

 

tyre specifically designed for who's car?

 

Goodyear specified their tyrres for Williams till 98 Argentina. Bridgestone also was develloped by McLaren in the beginning.

 

But yeas, Kimi must enjoy the Bridgestones in 07.

 

 

 

Not to mention how he was thrashed by both these guys as soon as all these benefits dropped away (in 2005).

 

That 2005 rules was the dirtiest move by FIA all time. Wrote the rules direct against the best team. Inspired and officially suggested directly by Michelin.

 

Schumacher was never trashed by thees guys, he still can finish in 3rd place in 2005.

 

 

And despite all those statistics, Alonso beat Schumacher in 2006 in a straight fight, even taking into account things like Monza penalty or the mass damper ban.

 

How? With tonns of cheat.

 

 

The 2009 Ferrari was not a top car.

It scored one win, which was the same as the 1995 car the year before Schumacher arrived. Ferrari have been behind the 8 ball for the entire post-2008 regulations era.

 

2009 Ferrari was the best car with KERS + the team still was a top team, just the DD was a big hit of that year.


Edited by Tarzaan, 13 September 2013 - 08:04.


#26 molpid

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 08:01

And despite all those statistics, Alonso beat Schumacher in 2006 in a straight fight, even taking into account things like Monza penalty or the mass damper ban.

 

Schumacher had his fair share of bad luck to be honest, and the mass damper should have been baned from the begining.
 



#27 quaint

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 10:29

And despite all those statistics, Alonso beat Schumacher in 2006 in a straight fight, even taking into account things like Monza penalty or the mass damper ban.

 

Straight fight my ***, Alonso gained an advantage with the mass damper car during the first part of the season that MSC was unable to catch, with the late DNF from the lead. Besides the mass damper championship years, Alonso's statistics are less than impressive: he almost beat Trulli, and almost beat Hamilton (but beat post-accident Massa).



#28 quaint

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 10:31

2009 Ferrari was the best car with KERS + the team still was a top team, just the DD was a big hit of that year.

 

How about no? McLaren was ahead all year long.



#29 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 13 September 2013 - 10:38

Driver vs driver threads are against forum rules, this thread was given some leeway because of the possibility that they could be guaged based on the common Ferrari history and see if it would develop into a discussion of the topic but it doesn't seem possible, so it's locked

 

Driver vs driver threads are only welcome for team mates where a reasonable assessment of their respective abilities can be gauged. Other comparison threads which pit driver against driver for no apparent reason are unwelcome.