159 replies to this topic

[Staycool]

i am a big mclaren fan and since kimi is confirmed to ferrari really worried about mclarens lineup  the hulk has potential to be great maybe even join the best list (alonso, vettel, kimi, hamilton) thats why mclaren need to sign him and unlock his talent. Mclaren seem to be heading the williams route.

 

2014

Ferrari: alonso, kimi

Mercedes: ham, rosberg

Rb: vettel, riccardio

Mclaren: button, perez

 

what do you guys think?

[William Hunt]

McLaren will not dump either Button or Perez, it would shock me if they did.

[Atreiu]

I agree, they should get him.

[Fastcake]

McLaren have a world champion, however much some people keep forgetting that, and a promising young driver. They'll be fine.

[Atreiu]

McLaren have a world champion, however much some people keep forgetting that, and a promising young driver. They'll be fine.

They already had a double WDC in 1983 and still went after Prost.

It worked fine, if you ask me.

[William Hunt]

Maybe McLaren will want another Finn (Valtteri Bottas) in the future since they have a history with Finish drivers (Häkkinen, Raikkönen as most succesful examples but also Kovalainen & Keke Rosberg).

[Anonymous]

 

before you sink

 

 

williams route

 

 

Thanks, I needed a good laugh before I go to bed.

Edited by Anonymous, 12 September 2013 - 22:34.

[Claudius]

I think replacing Perez with Hulk could be a good move.

IMO Perez has so far been dissapointing. 

[Andrew Hope]

Sweet Zombie jesus, use the Silly Season thread. We don't need a thread for every possible signing.

[William Hunt]

Perez is doing a very solid job in my opinion, they should keep him. It would be interesting to see what Perez can do if Mclaren will have a competitive car again.

[scheivlak]

Maybe McLaren will want another Finn (Valtteri Bottas) in the future since they have a history with Finish drivers (Häkkinen, Raikkönen as most succesful examples but also Kovalainen & Keke Rosberg).

Their history with German drivers OTOH........ only Jochen Mass - in the pre-Ron era.

 

That said, Ron Dennis did famously approach Michael Schumacher in 1993 - but that was it.

[William Hunt]

Sweet Zombie jesus, use the Silly Season thread. We don't need a thread for every possible signing.

 

I am much more anoyed by the countless different threads on Kimi, Alonso and Ferrari to be honest.

[undersquare]

Hulk is good, not great IMO.  Though I agree McLaren are at a disadvantage with their lineup - that'll be why they were waiting for Kimi/Nando.  

 

But Lotus losing Kimi might help McLaren to be third, at least.

[muramasa]

Honda will sink them after all anyway.

[Tropicana]

I am not impressed with Perez so far but give him at least 1 more season before calling for his head.

[bourbon]

i am a big mclaren fan and since kimi is confirmed to ferrari really worried about mclarens lineup  the hulk has potential to be great maybe even join the best list (alonso, vettel, kimi, hamilton) thats why mclaren need to sign him and unlock his talent. Mclaren seem to be heading the williams route.

 

2014

Ferrari: alonso, kimi

Mercedes: ham, rosberg

Rb: vettel, riccardio

Mclaren: button, perez

 

what do you guys think?

 

Settle down.  Perez is going to be a WDC, just give him wheels and time.   McLaren would be mad to let him go.

[Tonka]

The current McLaren drivers are good enough for the current McLaren car.  Parachuting a better driver in won't make any difference to next years car, if it's as bad as this one.

 

This time next year, I may have changed my mind.  Hindsight and all that...

[Tron]

I like Perez as he's been aggressively exciting this year. Just needs back his Sauber of last year. Maybe McLaren should rather buy that car and paint it silver.

Edited by Tron, 13 September 2013 - 01:41.

[HoldenRT]

This is what people will be talking about next season if Ferrari design a bad car.

 

If McLaren designed a good car this year, they wouldn't have this problem.

 

It's exaggerated but hopefully you know what I mean.

[Jimisgod]

Hulk is good, not great IMO. Though I agree McLaren are at a disadvantage with their lineup - that'll be why they were waiting for Kimi/Nando.

But Lotus losing Kimi might help McLaren to be third, at least.

4th...

I can't see them beating the Ferrari dream team, Mercedes almost dream team and RBR, who still have one half of the WCC team of the last 3 years.

No offense, but I think McLaren in 2014 will be a little behind where Lotus is today.

[Brother Fox]

[insert name here] has potential to be great maybe even join the best list (alonso, vettel, kimi, hamilton) thats why mclaren need to sign him and unlock his talent.

 

Isnt that what they did with Perez?

Who arguably had shown more potential than Hulkenberg has?

[klyster]

Arguably for sure, looking back over both their careers, Nico has impressed more so than Sergio.

 

They both have potential, Nico has more IMO....

Edited by klyster, 13 September 2013 - 06:14.

[Kingshark]

 

 

 

Thanks, I needed a good laugh before I go to bed.

 

People would have laughed at the idea of Williams being where they are now back in 2003. Only a few years can mean a lot in F1, hell, at the start of 2012 I was fearing for Ferrari taking such a rout.

 

Laughing at others is one of the least intelligent things a McLaren fan could do at this point in time.

[topical]

McLaren will keep their two drivers for 2014 and wait to see what happens at Ferrari and/or whether Vettel becomes available for 2015.

[KingTiger]

Perez needs to deliver next year or Honda will either put a Japanese driver, or at least find a partner company to sponsor them and make his cash unnecessary. 

Hulk is good, not great IMO.  Though I agree McLaren are at a disadvantage with their lineup - that'll be why they were waiting for Kimi/Nando.  

 

But Lotus losing Kimi might help McLaren to be third, at least.

McLaren ain't getting 3rd in the near future unless Ferrari, Red Bull and Mercedes all get swalled up by ground.

[tmzxaar]

Perez going to be a WDC?

 

He has done nothing to suggest that, he was actually very poor in terms of overtaking, often slow and got lucky last year with tyres.

[Schuttelberg]

I feel McLaren really expected Hamilton to re-sign with them last year. Their decision to sign Perez was an extremely knee-jerk reaction in my opinion. I do believe Sergio is a really talented driver, but I think general feeling is that he got the seat too early. It would have been quite interesting to see how he went in a mediocre Sauber against Hulkenberg. 

 

Martin Whitmarsh has made some strange decisions since he's been appointed to say the very least.

[William Hunt]

I don't understand why McLaren didn't sign Kimi last year, they are a natural fit. I assume it is because of Kimi's massive salary demands. Those demands probably caused the talks with Red Bull to stall as well.

[undersquare]

4th...

I can't see them beating the Ferrari dream team, Mercedes almost dream team and RBR, who still have one half of the WCC team of the last 3 years.

No offense, but I think McLaren in 2014 will be a little behind where Lotus is today.

Oh yes 4th I meant really, if Lotus drop back to more like their Petrov / Bruno days. 

[Owen]

McLaren have a world champion, however much some people keep forgetting that, and a promising young driver. They'll be fine.

This.  

Hulkenberg doesn't bring anything that Perez already brings. The only reason we haven't really seen it this year is due to the car they've both been given.

[bogi]

Then did Hulkenberg become TD, Cief Engineer or expert in fluid dynamics?

[drionita]

Then did Hulkenberg become TD, Cief Engineer or expert in fluid dynamics?

Well, the tread opener wrote something like "before you sink" so yes, we're talking about fluid dynamics.

 

---

Matt

Southern Italy

[Schuttelberg]

This.

Hulkenberg doesn't bring anything that Perez already brings. The only reason we haven't really seen it this year is due to the car they've both been given.

 

I don't think you can always have a winning car. McLaren have to be regarded as the second best F1 team even now, if you're to take consistency over a couple of decades. Perez is very lucky to be in a McLaren so early in his career. The car he has underneath him at the moment, is not worse than what he had last year. I'm not commenting on the technicality of things, but in general the McLaren is the 5th best car this year, while the Sauber was the fifth best car last year on race days that the Mercedes was off it. The difference between Perez last year and Perez this year is that he's against a far more consistent team mate and one of the best drivers in the world. Last year, he was up against a bit of an enigma in Kobayashi, who was either brilliant, or in the walls. 

 

Hulkenberg has got 17 points this year to Perez 18. 

 

Hulkenberg has finished in the points five times. 

Hulkenberg has one DNF which wasn't his fault. 

He's finished just outside the points thrice. 

It's an extremely consistent score up to now and it shows that he's getting everything out of the car. 

 

Perez has officially finished all the races.

He's finished in the points five times.

Perez has no DNF's but I grant him DNF's in Monaco and UK.

He's finished just outside the points on five occasions. 

It's not a McLaren standard car, but Jenson has finished in the points 9 times and just outside once.

 

I don't think I can compare Hulkenberg to Gutierrez because he's a rookie and from the looks of it, not a bright one yet. But, the McLaren has been a far better car than the Sauber this year and Perez has just one point more.

 

Hulkenberg is far more consistent than Perez. He has much better spatial awareness when he's racing wheel to wheel and there's no evidence to suggest that he doesn't have pace over one lap. 

 

There's no question in my opinion atleast that at this stage, Hulkenberg is by far the better driver and that McLaren signed Perez too early.

Edited by Schuttelberg, 13 September 2013 - 08:32.

[baddog]

Hulk seems like a good driver, but cannot see any reason at all to think of ditching either for him.. Jenson is flat out better and Perez has just started his time there.

[TT6]

I would give Perez another season to prove his worth and I definately wouldn't get rid of pretty decent WDC to get room for quite unknown quality Hülkenberg.

[DampMongoose]

Mclaren seem to be heading the williams route.

 

 

 I'd have loved to hear your thoughts when Mclaren finished 5th in the WCC in 1984 only to obliterate the rest with the title and 1st and 2nd in the WDC the year after, or after 1997 when they finished 4th only to win both titles again the year after...both times with the previous years number 1 driver!

 

Every once in a while a team builds a car that's not competitive, there's not much more to read into it at this stage... after 5 or 6 seasons like this one you could question their direction but not at the moment.

Edited by DampMongoose, 13 September 2013 - 09:15.

[PayasYouRace]

I wonder how the OP felt about McLaren when their line-up was the two relatively unproven young drivers named Hakkinen and Coulthard, who had precisely 1 win between them (DC Estoril 95) at the start of their partnership?

[SpamJet]

They should replace button with Hulkenberg.

[icewest07]

Hulk is good, not great IMO.  Though I agree McLaren are at a disadvantage with their lineup - that'll be why they were waiting for Kimi/Nando.  

 

But Lotus losing Kimi might help McLaren to be third fourth, at least.

 

You forgot either, RB, Ferrari & Mercedes...

 

Now fixed for you

[undersquare]

I always suspected that, consciously or not, McLaren chose Perez over Hulk because Checo is less of a threat to their No 1 Jense.

 

JB is a decent driver and inherently very quick but I think McLaren (and Whitmarsh/Neale in particular) have always overestimated him, based on his wdc and very fortunate start with the team, followed by Lewis' 2011 and Lewis' misfortunes in 2012 too, which all rather disguised the gulf in class between them.  Also MW/JN simply like Jense and his matey style.

 

Hulk is more aggressive and dangerous than Checo.  That's why they should choose him, and why they won't.

 

Though it is a bit mysterious that they've held off taking up their option on JB all this time.  You have to think that was about Kimi.  Or even Nando.  Hulk is not in that league though, to be a No1.  At least not yet.

[undersquare]

Oh yes 4th I meant really, if Lotus drop back to more like their Petrov / Bruno days. 

 

 

You forgot either, RB, Ferrari & Mercedes...

 

Now fixed for you

Yeah I did, thanks  

 

Hard to be 3rd without a Top 3 driver atm.

[Spillage]

Perez is underrated on this forum. He did an excellent job at Sauber last year and has been solid at Mclaren, especially given it is his first season there and only his third in Formula 1. Also bear in mind he's only 23; he's going to get a lot better in years to come.

 

Not, of course, that he's doing a bad job at the moment - he outqualified Button at Monza and in the end it was only an inferior strategy and slow pitstop that means he finished behind.

 

Mclaren's biggest problem this year is their car. Given the right machinery, I am confident the drivers can deliver big results.

[maverick69]

Is Hulkenberg that good? I'm not so sure - Because if he was he would have been snapped up by one of the top teams by now......... because despite public perceptions..... the team leaders do not walk around the paddock wearing their asshats all of the time. They know who is/are the real deal.

 

But. To be fair. I would put the Hulk up there, or there abouts as the best of the rest...... a bunch that unfortunately has Hamilton, Fred and Vettel setting the bar.

 

Before I get flamed - I've left Kimi out because he really is an enigma.

[destiny]

Mclaren should sign Rosberg when he becomes available 

[plutoman]

Is Hulkenberg that good? I'm not so sure - Because if he was he would have been snapped up by one of the top teams by now......... because despite public perceptions..... the team leaders do not walk around the paddock wearing their asshats all of the time. They know who is/are the real deal.

 

Hulkenberg has raced for three different teams, and each time has progressed from lower midfield to near the front over the course of a season. This indicates that he is either a) only motivated around contract time, or b) he's got some serious ability to develop a car to his liking. Perez on the other hand, has plenty of balls, but, like Maldonado, little ability to curb his over-enthusiasm. I know which one I'd sign.

[Seanspeed]

I will never buy this idea that Jenson was simply favoured with McLaren and that they'd treat him as a no.1 sort of driver.  I think that really insults the intelligence of those at McLaren.  Anybody can see that Jenson is good, but no world-beater.  They aren't going to shy away from other competitive drivers to protect him.  McLaren of all teams, too. 

[Owen]

A lot of people seem to be underestimating Perez...

[george1981]

I think McLaren need a clear #1 driver who can lead the team and inspire confidence in the engineers. For all Jenson's qualities he doesn't strike me as that type of driver unfortunately.

I haven't seen enough of Hulkenber to know whether he fits the bill.

[LaoTze]

I think them building a better car is way more important than signing a driver, I don't rate Jenson as highly as FA, HAM or RAI... but he is a very good driver, and not far from the top guys.. And he seems hungry. 

 

McLaren should build a better car for them not to sink, not sign up a driver.. Doesn't matter how fast the driver is if the car is crap. If Jenson gets a good car, he will deliver.

[Lucass]

i am a big mclaren fan and since kimi is confirmed to ferrari really worried about mclarens lineup  the hulk has potential to be great maybe even join the best list (alonso, vettel, kimi, hamilton) thats why mclaren need to sign him and unlock his talent. Mclaren seem to be heading the williams route.

McLaren have the experienced WDC who races with a brain and the young aggressive racer who is learning what it is to drive for a big team such as McLaren. The problem is the car this year not the drivers. Hulkenberg is a good driver but he won't bring anything extra to McLaren.

 

Williams route? Not a chance McLaren is such a big team that it won't happen, if need be they can even buy themselves out of trouble.

 

I always suspected that, consciously or not, McLaren chose Perez over Hulk because Checo is less of a threat to their No 1 Jense.

 

Hulk is more aggressive and dangerous than Checo.  That's why they should choose him, and why they won't.

If Perez is one thing it's aggressive as those who know about F1 have confirmed over and over, Hulkenberg has nothing on him in that.

 

Eric Boullier & Fernando Alonso critical of Sergio Perez after 'aggressive' Monaco GP.

 

Ferrari young driver mentor: “Perez can be too aggressive”

 

Kimi Raikkonen didn't hold back in criticism of Sergio Perez last weekend

 

So either you didn't watch Perez race, or you don't know what aggressive means or the facts just weren't convenient with the little Button bash your had going on there