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Massa : ''i will no longer play adjutant (to Alonso), now i attack''


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#101 Headspin

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 10:03

So Massa is attacking on every lap in Singapore?

 

Ferrari should count on early safety car when planning Fernando's strategy.



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#102 as65p

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 10:07

So Massa is attacking on every lap in Singapore?

 

Ferrari should count on early safety car when planning Fernando's strategy.

 

:lol: :up:



#103 kosmos

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 10:08

 

Massa feels that Alonso always treated him well and that their friendship is genuine.

 

Funny how some people believed the McLaren PR, "Lewis and Button BFF" and dismished Fernando and Felipe friendship back in the day. The true always comes to the surface.

 

Montezemolo has said that Felipe will help the team, yet to be seen if "I race for myself now" will be a reality or a dream. I hope they let him do his thing, The chances of winning the WDC are close to zero, in the other hand they need to work hard to get 2nd in the WCC.



#104 Iranie

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 10:09

Interesting to see Massa without the burden of being the handyman. I'm expecting dramatic rise in performance.



#105 wj_gibson

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 10:10

Ferrari could have done with Massa attacking in 2010 and a bit more in 2012 - had he shown the late season form in 2012 a bit earlier (and in 2010) then that would have meant points taken off the Red Bulls.

 

For example, Spa 2012 - Vettel drove an absolutely storming race to finish 2nd after qualifying in 11th, and Ferrari could have done with Massa taking that 2nd place instead. Likewise, in Abu Dhabi they could have done with Massa finishing 3rd instead of Vettel finishing 3rd.



#106 as65p

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 10:17

Massa feels that Alonso always treated him well and that their friendship is genuine.

 

Funny how some people believed the McLaren PR, "Lewis and Button BFF" and dismished Fernando and Felipe friendship back in the day. The true always comes to the surface.

 

Shht! Nobody wants to hear that. :mad:

 

 ;)



#107 UPRC

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 10:20

Massa says that he's going to attack, huh? Well, let's just take a look at how he's fared. Alonso and Massa over the last three years (including 2013)...

 

Alonso
Wins: 6
Podiums: 30

Points: 704

 

Massa
Wins: 0
Podiums: 3

Points: 319

 

Well Felipe Baby, you better fight awfully hard, because you look pretty lousy in comparison to your teammate! Kind of sad that a Ferrari driver has accomplished so little as of late while the guy sitting in the other car is a championship contender year in and year out.


Edited by UPRC, 17 September 2013 - 10:31.


#108 AustinF1

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 10:40

LOL at Massa. The reason he's being let go in the first place is that he hasn't been quick enough to help Alonso win the WDC or to help the team win the WCC.

 

What a joke.



#109 Lucass

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 10:51

I wish Felipe a couple of good results in his last races as a Ferrari driver but won't hold my breath.

He had a good run initially but after he returned from his accident his results were abysmal although his feud with Lewis in 2011 was quite entertaining  ;)

 

Best thing to do for him now is drive a few strong races and show if need be that he's still a team player.

That would be his best chance for a decent seat in 2014 imo



#110 PoleMan

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 11:02

If there really is a noticeable uptick in Felipe's driving/aggressiveness these last 7 races, I think Ferrari could rightly ask where this driver was the last 4 years. Perhaps, if he'd driven like that he'd have earned an extended contract and Ferrari might have had some additional championship trophies. As it is, if he only starts to "turn it up" now, that would raise a number of questions about his prior efforts and dedication and would fully justify Ferrari sacking him. 



#111 geGR

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 11:04

Massa's problem was of course his injury.  The time it takes to get back up to speed is roughly the time absent from the sport.

 

The problem was that that meant that, when he recovered fully, and was heading for a win, he was told to give it up to Alonso.

 

He's been psychologically dead ever since. 

If that was so, and if he really believed the supporting role he had to play was the reason for his lack of performance (as his recent interview appears to hint) why on Earth did he hang on to Ferrari for three more years? You can't have the cake and eat it.  ;)



#112 Coral

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 11:08

Massa has come across to me in the past few years as quite a bitter wee guy. I think it really affects him that he did not win that WDC in 2008. I have always thought that Massa believes that Alonso knew about "crashgate" all along and secretly blames him for not winning the title. Then of course Massa's misery was compounded when he had his accident and shortly afterwards Alonso became his new team-mate, pushing him into the role of put-upon No. 2 driver. Pretty much nothing has gone right for him since 2008!

 

I can't see Massa being able to help Alonso anyway, even if he wanted to...it's a bit difficult when you are about 25 seconds down the road.



#113 Group B

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 11:09

If that was so, and if he really believed the supporting role he had to play was the reason for his lack of performance (as his recent interview appears to hint) why on Earth did he hang on to Ferrari for three more years? You can't have the cake and eat it.  ;)

 

He's like Woobins, it's an easy excuse for not winning more once you're out; "they were shafting me all to hell yet I kept on re-signing even when other offers were available". Of course they suffered partly from team orders, but their real biggest problems were M. Schumacher and F. Alonso.



#114 bub

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 11:15

Good for Felipe. He's been a good employee for Ferrari but now that he's going why should he sacrifice himself?



#115 ensign14

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 11:25

If that was so, and if he really believed the supporting role he had to play was the reason for his lack of performance (as his recent interview appears to hint) why on Earth did he hang on to Ferrari for three more years? You can't have the cake and eat it.  ;)

 

I can think of a few million r£a$on$...



#116 RedRocksF1

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 11:29

And as a result of placating St Fernando, Ferrari cut off its right bollock.  Long-term it was disastrous.  Ferrari hasn't had a sniff of the WCC since; it's taken four years to get a racer in the second car.

 

If Massa had been in front of Alonso in the WDC in Hock2010, if Massa had been faster than Alonso (and not the contrary), if Massa had had a strong mind that it´s supposed in a driver with that level in a top team, if Massa had stolen only a few points from Vettel in 2010 and 2012, aaahhh if if

 

The only mistake is from Ferrari for not firing him in 2011.



#117 RedRocksF1

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 11:42

Oh Massa the victim...

 

"No, I will not do it . Now I attack ,"

Yes! at last! :clap:  for one time you could attack Vettel instead of Alonso, stole some points from he and redbull, you know, to fight for you and for your team.

 

"That day was very painfull , and it hurt long,"

When Kimi helped you in 2008 was very painful also? It hurts because you are mentally weak and the fact is that you were slower than Alonso in hockenheim 2010

 

And you won´t play a team role from now? So grateful guy. C´mon Ferrari with Pedro or Kobayashi.



#118 apexpredator

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 11:55

A shame that he's going to be leaving so ungracefully. Let's not pretend here that he's been held back by helping Alonso, fact of the matter is he hasn't really helped Alonso's cause for the WDC as much as a team-mate should have. Yes he moved out of the way one or two races a season, but he should have been taking points off Alonso's rivals which he's hardly ever done.

 

Couldn't even hold on to the podium position ahead of Webber at Monza ffs, despite Ferrari throwing the optimum pit stop strategies at him to get that double Ferrari podium in front of the tifosi.

 

Massa insists that he's the same driver as he was in 2008. That's the problem. He's stood still whilst the rest of the grid has stepped up the level entirely. Vettel, Alonso, Kimi, Hamilton, they're all above and beyond the level they were in back in 2008. 



#119 Suntrek

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 12:01

Oh good. Massa will attack from now on. (it's a bit late - I'm sure Ferrari thinks the same, but nevermind)

 

So - from now on I expect to see a huge improvement in performance from Felipe baby. . Bring it on!

 

(saracsm aside - I like Massa, he strikes me as a very good and kind bloke, but sometimes it's better - not just in F1-  but in all phases we are going through in life  to keep our mouths shut.  This is such an occasion)



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#120 velgajski1

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 12:03

If that was so, and if he really believed the supporting role he had to play was the reason for his lack of performance (as his recent interview appears to hint) why on Earth did he hang on to Ferrari for three more years? You can't have the cake and eat it.  ;)

 

It's not that weird really. After he saw that he will not be able to win WDC and that Ferrari is commited to Alonso for a long time - he became one of those employees that are content to just 'be there' and do enough not to get fired. Happens in every line of work on a daily basis and after few months/years such people are usually let go.



#121 lambylamby

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 12:32

http://www.dailymoti...-hamilton_sport

 

2 mins onwards, that shows Massa's aggressive errr driving.

 

I don't see him in f1 next season, the seat he would be aiming for will be filled with pay drivers.



#122 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 12:38

 

Couldn't even hold on to the podium position ahead of Webber at Monza ffs, despite Ferrari throwing the optimum pit stop strategies at him to get that double Ferrari podium in front of the tifosi.

 

 

The only reason Alonso held of Webber was that the RB started having some problems and they told him to back off. 

 

Massa raced against Webber in normal mode...



#123 pRy

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 13:15

Unfortunate comments by Felipe. 

 

No one would begrudge him if he stated that he needs to give 100% to show other teams what he is capable of in the remaining races.. that's fine. But to suggest that he has in some way been denied the chance to shine at Ferrari is a bit silly really. 



#124 bub

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 13:46

Unfortunate comments by Felipe. 

 

No one would begrudge him if he stated that he needs to give 100% to show other teams what he is capable of in the remaining races.. that's fine. But to suggest that he has in some way been denied the chance to shine at Ferrari is a bit silly really. 

 

What did he say to suggest that?



#125 TT6

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 13:46

Massa says that he's going to attack, huh? Well, let's just take a look at how he's fared. Alonso and Massa over the last three years (including 2013)...
 
Alonso
Wins: 6
Podiums: 30
Points: 704
 
Massa
Wins: 0
Podiums: 3
Points: 319
 
Well Felipe Baby, you better fight awfully hard, because you look pretty lousy in comparison to your teammate! Kind of sad that a Ferrari driver has accomplished so little as of late while the guy sitting in the other car is a championship contender year in and year out.



This is so wrong. You should immedately adjust those stats. The points Massa donated to Alonso should be added into Massas points. Then they would be quite even. :)

#126 Acathla

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 14:06

This is so wrong. You should immedately adjust those stats. The points Massa donated to Alonso should be added into Massas points. Then they would be quite even. :)

 

Eh... what did I just read? Quite even? Don't have the stats but I like to think that Alonso destroyed Massa, points "donated" aside. 



#127 apexpredator

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 14:20

The only reason Alonso held of Webber was that the RB started having some problems and they told him to back off. 

 

Massa raced against Webber in normal mode...

 

I'm not talking about Alonso in the final stint.

 

In the first stint, Massa was running 3rd with Webber 4th, with Alonso already having pulled out a 6 second gap after he passed Massa. Following the pit stop, Webber was ahead of Massa. Alonso showed the pace was clearly in the car, and Massa should have stuck with him. Instead he fell within the clutches of Webber and lost the podium. 



#128 geGR

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 15:04

I can think of a few million r£a$on$...

So, he made a conscious choice to stay at a team he knew would never give him equal chance to win, just because that would guarantee him a few million r£a$on$. Sorry, but in this case suck it up man, and don't bemoan the fact you were not "allowed to look after yourself" all these years.

 

Not to mention, if that really is the attitude he was lodged in, then he is in fact psychologically dead F1-wise; albeit for totally different reasons to the ones you suggested in your previous post...


Edited by geGR, 17 September 2013 - 15:06.


#129 redreni

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 15:05

This is so wrong. You should immedately adjust those stats. The points Massa donated to Alonso should be added into Massas points. Then they would be quite even. :)

 

I assume you jest?

 

I'm fairly sure I could count on one hand the number of times Massa has let Alonso overtake him in races, and of those I can't think of a single instance where, having ceded the position, Massa looked remotely capable of keeping up with Alonso. That means that, while the team orders definitely made Alonso's life easier in those instances, since Massa was slower there's no hard evidence that he would have been able to fend off an attack from Alonso had they been permitted to race. Nonetheless if we take those as "donated" points I'd still like to know by what mathematical sorcery you'd be able to get that gap down to less than 300-odd points?



#130 Tron

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 16:21

Oh Massa the victim...

 

"That day was very painfull , and it hurt long,"

When Kimi helped you in 2008 was very painful also? It hurts because you are mentally weak and the fact is that you were slower than Alonso in hockenheim 2010

 

:up: :up: :up:



#131 fabr68

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 16:33

Massa no longer to play "adjunctant" to Ferrari championship hopes. De la Rosa to replace Massa for the rest of the season.

#132 pRy

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 16:46

What did he say to suggest that?

 

''I will no longer play adjutant (to Alonso), now i attack''  sounds to me like he is suggesting he has been held back.



#133 Watkins74

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 16:51

A few days ago there were stories of Barrichello advising Massa on his next career move. Felipe is always excitable after having Barrichello in his ear.



#134 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 17:00

I wonder how many of Massa's words have been taken out of context and spun into something new?

 

He won't be a thorn in Alonso's side. He'll aid him but he'll also try and audition his talents at the same time.



#135 Fontainebleau

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 17:13

I wonder how many of Massa's words have been taken out of context and spun into something new?

 

He won't be a thorn in Alonso's side. He'll aid him but he'll also try and audition his talents at the same time.

This. I have read some very harsh comments on Massa in this thread, but I am sure that the press has played a helping hand in the quotes I have read.

 

Massa is a professional driver and Ferrari has no reason to doubt his loyalty. I am sure that he will combine the two goals FFF2001 has listed above.



#136 surbjits

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 18:00

Isn't it obvious? Play second fiddle or get booted from the team. Now he's gone next year anyway and has nothing to lose.

 

How sweet would it be if Massa wins a race now? Even if he lucks into it. Would love to see it.

I can just imagine the outbreak of emotion of Felipe's face now :D



#137 surbjits

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 18:02

Half these comments are from gullible butt hurt Kimi fans; had to say it :rotfl:



#138 ch103

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 18:30

A lot of the comments in this thread are short sighted to say the least.  Looking at how the drivers race results compare over the last three seasons and making conclusions on the relative competitiveness of the drivers is foolish.

 

In Formula 1, the cars are prototypes.  When a new part is made and is found to be superior to its existing counterpart, the teams are forced to make a decision on who to give the superior part to.  So the argument of both drivers having the same car is naive at best.  

 

Secondly, do you think teams put both drivers out on the same strategy?  Some drivers have their races compromised before the race starts because when teams aren't sure if plan A will work, they sacrifice their second drivers race on a high risk approach.  Webber's win at the Hungaroring is a perfect example of this.   

 

Thankfully for Felipe's sake, he has Germany 2010 to look back to as proof that Ferrari considered his races to be sacrificial to Alonso.  Excuse me, Santandar considers Massa's races fodder for Alonso.  Ferrari are just the puppets who do whatever the cash tells them to do.

 

I for one salute Felipe.  Should have been champion in 2008 had Ferrari not dropped the ball.  The guy even sacrificed his home GP win in order for his teammate, Kimi, to win his only title.  In spite of all this, all people do is look at the final points standings and claim it as proof of his short comings...



#139 BorkoF2012

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 18:51



I for one salute Felipe.  Should have been champion in 2008 had Ferrari not dropped the ball.  The guy even sacrificed his home GP win in order for his teammate, Kimi, to win his only title.

If he was in a position to do the same in 2008, Raikkonen would have done the same for sure. Also he moved over for Massa in China, those two points did help.



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#140 Gintonious

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 18:59

Too little too late.



#141 ardbeg

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 19:04

What was Massa waiting for?

I have been wondering that since the Hockenheim incident. It was obvious that Massa would never even get a chance to run for the WDC and he must have realized that. He must also have realized that Alonso had a long term contract and his waiting for his turn would be long. Maybe he loved being a Ferrari driver so much he did not notice how his shares dived and kept sinking.

 

There is quite a possibility that Massa's rather mediocre performances the last couple of years is a direct result of realizing he was just a servant, realizing that the extra tenth here and there would not take him out of the shadows. F1, well all sports particularly at elite level, requires a 100% motivation for 100% performance. If your mind is not on winning, you will probably not win.

 

Do it Felipe, show us we were wrong, show the other team bosses you are still a force to be reckoned with. Ferrari wont like it, but, and I know it hurts, they was never your family.



#142 Tron

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 19:10

I wonder how many of Massa's words have been taken out of context and spun into something new?

 

He won't be a thorn in Alonso's side. He'll aid him but he'll also try and audition his talents at the same time.

 

You could be right, but right now that's the translation from his Italian interview. And if it was distorted, by now his PR team would have publically clarified it.

 

 

This. I have read some very harsh comments on Massa in this thread, but I am sure that the press has played a helping hand in the quotes I have read.

 

Massa is a professional driver and Ferrari has no reason to doubt his loyalty. I am sure that he will combine the two goals FFF2001 has listed above.

 

Massa a professional driver? Yes, he was indeed in 2011, and how amazing is it that once he resigned his contract last year, he started racing again.



#143 bourbon

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 20:44

I wish Felipe a couple of good results in his last races as a Ferrari driver but won't hold my breath.

He had a good run initially but after he returned from his accident his results were abysmal although his feud with Lewis in 2011 was quite entertaining  ;)

 

Best thing to do for him now is drive a few strong races and show if need be that he's still a team player.

That would be his best chance for a decent seat in 2014 imo

 

Except for when he was leading the WDC in the beginning of 2010...  A couple of bad luck races and his points fell, and Ferrari disallowed him from making them up (in fact he was making up 7 points when he was called off the win in Germany).  

 

So it would be more accurate to say that Massa hasn't returned to his POST accident form of early 2010. 



#144 Tron

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 20:50

Except for when he was leading the WDC in the beginning of 2010...  A couple of bad luck races and his points fell, and Ferrari disallowed him from making them up (in fact he was making up 7 points when he was called off the win in Germany).  

 

So it would be more accurate to say that Massa hasn't returned to his POST accident form of early 2010. 

 

While I agree the accident has nothing to do with it, when leading early in 2010, it was due to incidents, like rain in Australia, and then after Germany he still put in good races, like Italy... then completely faded after Alonso's Korean win.

As well towards the end of last year, he was racing damn well.

 

So it's not the accident, nor the team order issue. Clearly something else upstairs.



#145 velgajski1

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 05:49

A lot of the comments in this thread are short sighted to say the least.  Looking at how the drivers race results compare over the last three seasons and making conclusions on the relative competitiveness of the drivers is foolish.

 

In Formula 1, the cars are prototypes.  When a new part is made and is found to be superior to its existing counterpart, the teams are forced to make a decision on who to give the superior part to.  So the argument of both drivers having the same car is naive at best.  

 

Secondly, do you think teams put both drivers out on the same strategy?  Some drivers have their races compromised before the race starts because when teams aren't sure if plan A will work, they sacrifice their second drivers race on a high risk approach.  Webber's win at the Hungaroring is a perfect example of this.   

 

Thankfully for Felipe's sake, he has Germany 2010 to look back to as proof that Ferrari considered his races to be sacrificial to Alonso.  Excuse me, Santandar considers Massa's races fodder for Alonso.  Ferrari are just the puppets who do whatever the cash tells them to do.

 

I for one salute Felipe.  Should have been champion in 2008 had Ferrari not dropped the ball.  The guy even sacrificed his home GP win in order for his teammate, Kimi, to win his only title.  In spite of all this, all people do is look at the final points standings and claim it as proof of his short comings...

 

His shortcoming is not just results, its the lack of attitude. What do you think would happen to Hamilton if he didn't make a fuss after Monaco 2007. and if he generally didn't make it very clear that he is here to win? If Felipe disobeyed team it would be a wilder ride for him and he'd probably get fired sooner, but that way he'd still have a chance of proving himself again with another team.


Edited by velgajski1, 18 September 2013 - 05:50.


#146 pUs

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 05:56



This. I have read some very harsh comments on Massa in this thread, but I am sure that the press has played a helping hand in the quotes I have read.

 

Massa is a professional driver and Ferrari has no reason to doubt his loyalty. I am sure that he will combine the two goals FFF2001 has listed above.

 

"This". He's had now almost four full seasons to showcase his talents since the crash. But all of a sudden he realises that now might be a good moment to start pushing :smoking: It doesn't make sense..



#147 CrashPad

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 06:38

I'd like nothing more than to see Massa win for one last time for Ferrari  :up:


Edited by CrashPad, 18 September 2013 - 06:39.


#148 ViMaMo

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 07:16

acme.jpg

 

Good luck !! 



#149 encircled

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 10:55

 

Vernon's question: "Is Fernando really faster than you?"

 

But Felipe Massa, who looked every inch like a nice fellow, gamely answered, pronouncing an emphatic "No!" to the delight of his fans. The place erupted in applause, and Massa was deliciously cheered by his adoring audience (one of whom even posted a message of jubilation on Facebook).

http://www.topgear.c...-epic-question#



#150 sopa

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 11:18

While I agree the accident has nothing to do with it, when leading early in 2010, it was due to incidents, like rain in Australia, and then after Germany he still put in good races, like Italy... then completely faded after Alonso's Korean win.

As well towards the end of last year, he was racing damn well.

 

So it's not the accident, nor the team order issue. Clearly something else upstairs.

 

People keep overanalyzing. It's like asking why is Webber good only in Europe. Why de Cesaris crashed half the time and couldn't replicate his Spa 1991 drive. Why didn't others perform all the time, only sometimes.

 

Well, that's WHY they are called INconsistent drivers. Can't keep up their form all the time. Not to do with contract extensions, team orders or stuff like that. Just a natural stuff for these blokes.


Edited by sopa, 18 September 2013 - 11:18.