30 replies to this topic

[Graham Clayton]

I have just watched a video of Tony Trimmer winning the 1989 Formula Libre Leinster Trophy race at Mondello Park in a Lola T330. The race was over 25 laps, and Trimmer had lapped the entire field by the end of lap 9. Have there been other examples of a driver lapping the entire field at such an early stage of a race? What is the record for the most times that a driver has lapped the entire field in a race?

 

For those who are interested, here is Trimmer throwing the Lola around Mondello Park:

 

http://youtu.be/WoNril87Yu8

[Lee Nicolle]

I have done that in a 8 lap race. Really it does not show any great speed from me [ though I did make the effort when it seemed possible] but the lack of depth of the field. The reason I had to travel further for better competition.
I am sure others here have done the same for similar reason.
Watching that clip though is great, it typifies a 5000 being driven hard on very much a point and squirt circuit. And the car bouncing in those big tyres as I always remember them.

Edited by Lee Nicolle, 17 September 2013 - 11:09.

[Vitesse2]

One that comes to mind is Wimille at Perpignan in 1946: he finished twelve laps ahead of Louveau in a 68-lap race.

[ratkinso]

Not quite so amazing - he lapped the second place man with 9 laps TO GO, not on the 9th lap. Quite a tight and twisty circuit for such a beast!

[BRG]

If it wasn't for the fact that the Nordschliefe is over 22km long, JYS would have lapped the field twice if the 1968 German GP had been on a normal length track as he finished over 4 minutes ahead of 2nd place Hill.

 

Tell that the kids nowadays and they won't believe you.  Unless you put it on Twitter of course.

[Ray Bell]

Brock wasn't doing too badly at Bathurst in '74...

 

Especially considering the big car class was supposed to be full of equal performers.

[fan27]

I think that Montoya did it at Pau back in 1998 in a F3000 race. He was helped massively by a crash which held up everyone from 2nd back, though...

[Roger Clark]

One that comes to mind is Wimille at Perpignan in 1946: he finished twelve laps ahead of Louveau in a 68-lap race.

Are you sure it wasn't a 58-lap race and two laps ahead?

[Glengavel]

Jim Clark unlapped himself twice at Monza in 1967 - how does that compare?

[gkennedy]

Brock wasn't doing too badly at Bathurst in '74...

 

Especially considering the big car class was supposed to be full of equal performers.

He didn't do that well. He had a DNF.

 

'79 was better - he won by 6 laps of the 6.213 KM circuit, setting a lap record on his last lap.

[Ray Bell]

But in '74 he was five or six laps ahead before he was sabotaged...

 

About half-distance? He and Bond had a massive lead then it all went wrong.

[Andrew Hope]

Not quite what the thread is after, but Bill Elliott's win at Talladega in 1985 is worth a mention. Made up 2 laps on the field on a 2+ mile track with no cautions to win.

[Macca]

I thought I'd missed the obvious one: Sir Stirl (GLE) in the 1961 International Trophy at Silverstone.

 

Paul M

[Hank the Deuce]

But in '74 he was five or six laps ahead before he was sabotaged...

About half-distance? He and Bond had a massive lead then it all went wrong.

Sabotage? I thought it holed a piston or ran a bearing or something... he was 6 laps in front then too...

Brock was 2 laps in front in '84 as well... and weren't the preceding two wins by at least a lap? It'd be quicker to list the Bathurst enduros that Brock won by less than a lap.

Edited by Hank the Deuce, 18 September 2013 - 09:01.

[Lee Nicolle]

Brock wasn't doing too badly at Bathurst in '74...
 
Especially considering the big car class was supposed to be full of equal performers.

The Stonie cartoon in the Fiction with the interviewer asking Brock how many laps will he win Bathurst by. And it was near the truth.
Wont happen now ofcourse, there will be a piece of paper on the track so a full course yellow will be required.
It may still happen though at a club meeting.
It has happened on occasion on Speedway too surprisingly enough

[Lee Nicolle]

He didn't do that well. He had a DNF.
 
'79 was better - he won by 6 laps of the 6.213 KM circuit, setting a lap record on his last lap.

Waving to the crowd as he did it. He actually did that a couple of times. XU1, A9X and I feel in a Commodore too.

[Tim Murray]

In the 1922 French GP at Strasbourg the winning Fiat of Felice Nazzaro finished almost 58 minutes ahead of de Vizcaya’s second-placed Bugatti. Thus at the time Nazzaro crossed the finish line he was around eight laps (of 8.3 miles) in front of the Bugatti.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Hank the Deuce

Sabotage? I thought it holed a piston...

 

Yes, but why?

 

Phil Irving looked at it because Ian Tait couldn't determine the cause of the problem. "Detonation!" he told Tait. "But why?" was Tait's unanswered question.

 

Now think of the time in the history of Brock, the ramifications of this DNF on the immediate future of the newly-crowned ATTC winner and who might have had reason to make him look bad.

Edited by Ray Bell, 18 September 2013 - 21:07.

[Collombin]

Jim Clark unlapped himself twice at Monza in 1967 - how does that compare?

 

He passed the leaders twice, but surely only the first time was an unlapping? He wasn't 2 laps down.

[Henri Greuter]

Jacques Villeneuve at Indy in 1995. It is that he was penalized two laps so that is why he still won the race with the runner-up still in the same lap. Bit without that debatable black flag, he would have lapped the entire field at least once, maybe twice.

And: OK:  the question remains of course how much this was influenced by the yellow flags of that race.

 

Henri

[MLC]

Another IndyCar race: Phoenix 1993

 

Paul Tracy was 2 laps ahead of the field. Granted, this is on a 1-mile oval, but still impressive. Unfortunately, Tracy was not the smartest of drivers and he tripped over a back-marker and crashed out of the lead. This gave Mario Andretti his last victory.

[RCH]

Australian GP 1995, Damon Hill finished 2 laps ahead of 2nd. place man Panis.

[Lee Nicolle]

Yes, but why?
 
Phil Irving looked at it because Ian Tait couldn't determine the cause of the problem. "Detonation!" he told Tait. "But why?" was Tait's unanswered question.
 
Now think of the time in the history of Brock, the ramifications of this DNF on the immediate future of the newly-crowned ATTC winner and who might have had reason to make him look bad.

Those L34 engines were/are very fragile. Detonation, especially on Holden V8s is caused by both poor fuel distribution, fuel surge in the carb causing it too lean out and just the hot spots that happen in those engines. Plus Brock was driving the thing very hard. Though he always had plenty of mechanical sympathy.

[Hank the Deuce]

Yes, but why?

 

Phil Irving looked at it because Ian Tait couldn't determine the cause of the problem. "Detonation!" he told Tait. "But why?" was Tait's unanswered question.

 

Now think of the time in the history of Brock, the ramifications of this DNF on the immediate future of the newly-crowned ATTC winner and who might have had reason to make him look bad.

Curiouser and curiouser...

 

"H" maintained it was because of the fuel surge scenario Lee mentions, due to Brock pressing on against "H"'s specific instructions, from memory.  He also claimed that the pressure to dump Brock - as eventuated - was from further up the chain, and again against his wishes.  Doth the gentleman protest too much? Was there a conspiracy enacted on the basis that the other car looked good for the win in Bond's hands at that stage, or was the other HDT car already in trouble with oil leaks and such?

[Henri Greuter]

Another IndyCar race: Phoenix 1993

 

Paul Tracy was 2 laps ahead of the field. Granted, this is on a 1-mile oval, but still impressive. Unfortunately, Tracy was not the smartest of drivers and he tripped over a back-marker and crashed out of the lead. This gave Mario Andretti his last victory.

 

 

Something similar, I forgot in which race it was and I don't bother to look it up. But it was an IRL race in early August 1996 that I saw on TV when I was in the USA. I think it was the second weekend of August. That was the lunatic combined 96/97 season in which two or so races were held in 1996 after the Indy 500 of that year with the Pre 1996 CART chassis and engines and from 1997 on the spec atmo 4 liter engines and new chassis were used. Effectively a 1.5 year long season with two distinctively different kind of cars used to create one single championship.

In that event of August 1996, Tony Stewart, driving a Lola-Menard V6 had two laps on the entire field and then had to retire. Forgot why. Forgot who won the race as well...

Probably the best chance ever for a Biuck based V6 to score a victory in any kind of Indycar race.

 

 

Henri

[Ray Bell]

Hank, Brock's pit stop... or the pit stop to put Brock back into the car, as it may have been, took place as they were wiping up the oil from Bond's loose sump...

 

It was only a couple of laps afterwards that the car holed the piston. Brock was six laps ahead, would he have been pushing hard at that time?

 

I think the very fact that Ian Tait asked Phil Irving to look at it indicates that it was more than Harry was suggesting. And Tait makes that clear.

 

Yes, the command was from further up the chain, but it's reasonable to assume that Harry was the man to put the order into action. Brock's messy problems with his second wife were everpresent at the time.

[Hank the Deuce]

No doubt, the definitive story of Brock's 1974 Great Race would make a gripping read, if ever the truth could be divined....

[Ray Bell]

Starting with what?

 

The linking of hands and hearts of Heather and Bob Watson?

 

Karen McPherson?

 

The glittery wedding of the Miss Australia and Peter Perfect?

Edited by Ray Bell, 19 September 2013 - 13:45.

[Hank the Deuce]

All aspects of the saga that would make good copy (well, some of it has made it into print, with varying degrees of salaciousness. Some of it glossed over in a manner to ensure that the average mug just KNEW there's a story in there), but the story of how the L34 got into the state it was in - physically, rather than metaphorically - would keep my bedside light on into the wee small hours

[Jim Thurman]

 

In that event of August 1996, Tony Stewart, driving a Lola-Menard V6 had two laps on the entire field and then had to retire. Forgot why. Forgot who won the race as well...

 

June 1997. Stewart blew the motor, then spun and hit the wall. Typical Stewart, he'd done the same in short track races. Huge lead, no backing off and either blow the motor or tangle with a lapper.

 

You don't remember what happened next?  A lot   

Edited by Jim Thurman, 19 September 2013 - 16:07.

[Henri Greuter]

June 1997. Stewart blew the motor, then spun and hit the wall. Typical Stewart, he'd done the same in short track races. Huge lead, no backing off and either blow the motor or tangle with a lapper.

 

You don't remember what happened next?  A lot   

 

 

Hey Jim,

 

I never saw that 1997 race but it definitely made the Dutch newspapers that Arie was knocked down by Foyt!!!!

That blunder of officialdom by USAC that race pretty much ended USAC off for indicars and IRL taking over themselves.

 

But I do remember the 1996 event I described since I saw it on TV in the USA that year and 1996 was my first ever time in the USA later in the year than early June.

Had seen some genuine 500's at the Speedway but couldn't bring myself to see a detoriated (at least that was what I expected it to become) "500" so I opted for attending the Marlboro 500 at Michigan, followed by the "Brickyard 400" the next week instead. The next weekend was the race I remembered. I also remember it because I saw it with a man who fell asleep during the TV coverage race! And I can't remember who won it  but perhaps I was asleep as well by that time....

 

 

Henri