32 replies to this topic

[Forma1]

I know since Kimi's rumours to Ferrari load of similiar topics were born, but this is something I'm really afraid of. Nico Hulkenberg is -IMO- the best bar the champions. I am a fan of Felipe, but I just can't stand if Felipe gets the Lotus not Nico. Sirotkin is pretty much secured with his backing the Sauber seat (although he has talent as well, more then Petrov I am sure), Esteban can secure his seat with the Mexican backing. The question remains which place can Nico get? 

 

ps.: from youngster from the second junior step I rate da Costa extremely high and at the lower step I think Marvin Kirchhöfer can make his way towards the higher categories soon.

[DutchQuicksilver]

Like said in another topic. His switching teams every year isn't helping him. Heck, it says something that Lotus looks to prefer Massa over Hulkenberg, because Massa is more loyal. Lotus doesn't want to risk that they lose their driver after one season.

 

We all know Hulkenberg will jump ship again if Ferrari comes in 2015.

[P0inters]

I agree. It would be sad to see him not get the Lotus seat and it would be disgrace for the sport if drivers like Sirotkin and Gutierrez are getting seats and for Hulkenberg to be left without one. I also agree that he is the best of the non World Champions and possibly better than Button already. But I think his chances of getting the Lotus seat are very strong.

[dau]

Like said in another topic. His switching teams every year isn't helping him. Heck, it says something that Lotus looks to prefer Massa over Hulkenberg, because Massa is more loyal. Lotus doesn't want to risk that they lose their driver after one season.

 

We all know Hulkenberg will jump ship again if Ferrari comes in 2015.

To be fair, he didn't exactly leave Williams voluntarily, he got the boot to make room for Maldonado.

[Lights]

I'm sure Hulkenberg wouldn't mind signing a multi-year contract at Lotus, so him switching teams every year shouldn't be an issue on that part. It's more about whether Lotus wants him or is deluded enough to take on a driver like Massa.

[DutchQuicksilver]

To be fair, he didn't exactly leave Williams voluntarily, he got the boot to make room for Maldonado.

True, but I still don't know why he left Force India. Sauber was already going downhill last year before Hulkenberg even signed. He should show more loyalty and try to build with Sauber. But no, I get the feeling Hulkenberg only cares about Hulkenberg.

[Andrew Hope]

I feel like we as a human race should all understand by now that just because not everybody agrees with you, it doesn't mean nobody does. You might as well start a thread asking why nobody loves blondes. Well, loads of people do, just not everyone. We just had a giant megathread about how super mega awesome Nico Hulkenberg is, literally closed an hour ago.

 

Hulkenberg is undoubtedly good, but so is nearly the entirety of the grid, and dozens of drivers outside of it. Hulkenberg is already on his 3rd team in 3 seasons. That's a lot more second chances than most drivers get. It's more first chances than most drivers get. If he goes somewhere - anywhere - else on the grid next year, he is surely out of excuses and can have no complaints whatever happens. I'm sure Buemi, Kobayashi, Alguersuari, Chandhok and the like would love to hear how unfair it would be if Hulkenberg goes through nearly 1/2 the teams of the grid on talent alone (which in today's financial terms is almost unbelievable) and is unable to win a championship.

 

Drivers are not owed good teams, and there is more to it than just talent. I would be happy to hear what the relentless haters of pay drivers would have to say if a team that is haemhorraging money takes a driver like the Hulk who brings not a dollar, and then the team sinks, instead of taking a pay driver who could then keep the team afloat. A pay driver who for all we know might buy the team enough time to stay alive and get back into a financial spot where they can pay the next Hulkenberg when he comes along.

Edited by Andrew Hope, 17 September 2013 - 19:57.

[BRG]

To be fair, he didn't exactly leave Williams voluntarily, he got the boot to make room for Maldonado.

Didn't he demand to be paid a fairly substantial salary for 2011, after a fairly average rookie year?  And as a result, ended up earning and driving nothing.

 

Where has this myth of his brilliance come from?  Isn't he just another guy with excellent pre-F1 credentials who has failed to set F1 alight?  A bit like Bourdais.

[chumma]

I dont understand the hype of Hulkenberg, yes hes good, but best of the non champions? That is complete rubbish. His year at Williams wasn't particularly great (car was poor) his year at Force India had some highlight races (Spa, Brazil before he noobed it into Lewis) and this year aside from Monza he hasn't done that much. I rate him higher than Perez and McLaren would have sined him had they not panicked and knee jerked after Monza last year when Lewis decided to leave, but hes still got to shine for a top team to hire him, Brazil was his chance and he blew it. A1GP record is great though, but the talent opposing him wasn't

[bourbon]

I dont understand the hype of Hulkenberg, yes hes good, but best of the non champions? That is complete rubbish. His year at Williams wasn't particularly great (car was poor) his year at Force India had some highlight races (Spa, Brazil before he noobed it into Lewis) and this year aside from Monza he hasn't done that much. I rate him higher than Perez and McLaren would have sined him had they not panicked and knee jerked after Monza last year when Lewis decided to leave, but hes still got to shine for a top team to hire him, Brazil was his chance and he blew it. A1GP record is great though, but the talent opposing him wasn't

 

McLaren knee jerked and selected Perez?  Do you have a source for that?  Perez has shown talent from day 1 at Jerez.  McLaren definitely selected the best of the rest when they took on Perez, imo.  He will be champion one day and if the Macca was capable of fighting for position this season, he'd be doing so.  It is madness to base his ultimate ability on this season's performance.  He has made some dumb rookie-in-a-top-car mistakes, but all young drivers do. 

 

Hulkenberg has shown flashes of brilliance, but Macca knew what they were doing in picking Perez over him.  I agree Hulk appears to merit a better seat based on what he has shown so far - and if he keeps it up, he'll get one.

Edited by bourbon, 17 September 2013 - 20:29.

[midgrid]

Just thinking aloud here: if the worst comes to the worst, all the cards fall the wrong way, an he doesn't get a seat next year, then being a thid driver needn't be the end of the world: next year we have an epic showdown between Räikkönen and Alonso, Ricciardo under pressure to step up at Red Bull, Pérez at McLaren (perhaps the Mexican connection will become less important after that with Honda support arriving), Grosjean and driver two at Lotus, with the other pay drivers dependent on possibly fickle financial support (e.g. will PDVSA continue to back Maldonado despite Chávez's death? Will the Russian Sauber-Sirotkin deal be honoured?). There could be another big shake-up in the drier market for 2015, and a well-regarded driver like Hülkenberg could still profit from it even if he forced into a sabbatical next season.

[Anderis]

Didn't he demand to be paid a fairly substantial salary for 2011, after a fairly average rookie year?  And as a result, ended up earning and driving nothing.

I don't know if he demanded so but it was meaningless anyway. After 2010 Williams was going to lose what was perhaps at least half of their sponsorship package, including RBS, Philips, AirAsia, Allianz, Accenture and Hell and they were unable to put a single significant deal to replace it. There was nothing they could do to prevent BIG financial struggles, other that look for a paydriver. And Rubens reportedly had 2 years deal in place so it was Hulk who had to go. His salary demands didn't make any difference. Only thing he could do to keep his seat at Williams was to bring significant sponsorship package. What was worse: Williams was sending signals to him that they were satisfied with him and all year and it turned out very late that they were not going to keep him (perhaps they still hoped to find some sponsors and keep Hulk, that's why they didn't tell Nico what the situation was like, because he would be automatically look for other team and could sign a deal elsewhere before Williams would sort out their sponsorship). It resulted in situation when Hulk had nowhere to go for 2011.

[sennafan24]

McLaren knee jerked and selected Perez?  Do you have a source for that?  Perez has shown talent from day 1 at Jerez.  McLaren definitely selected the best of the rest when they took on Perez, imo.  He will be champion one day and if the Macca was capable of fighting for position this season, he'd be doing so.  It is madness to base his ultimate ability on this season's performance.  He has made some dumb rookie-in-a-top-car mistakes, but all young drivers do. 

 

Hulkenberg has shown flashes of brilliance, but Macca knew what they were doing in picking Perez over him.  I agree Hulk appears to merit a better seat based on what he has shown so far - and if he keeps it up, he'll get one.

Perez has shown that he can conserve tyres well, and knows when to push at times, other than that I have not seen that much. Perez is not that consistent or fast, Button is giving him a royal booting in qualifying and I am sure even Jenson would admit he is not the one-lap king. I say give Perez another year and have Hulky go to Lotus, but I think you are overstating Perez's talent and understating how underwhelming he has performed this year.

 

For example, did Kimi perform this badly in his first year with D,C? I am not quick to put the boot in as others, but Perez has not been very good this year, and the rookie excuse only flies to a certain extent.

Edited by sennafan24, 17 September 2013 - 20:54.

[Tron]

It's not that no one realizes he has talent, it's just most of the big seats are taken by proven race winners, and he doesn't have the Chilton trustfund, then there's the following.

 

Redbull - Needs to make the Toro Roso programme work.

Mercedes - Got a expereinced German driver and a former champion. Why start from scratch with a youngster?

Ferrari - Changing strategy, want expereince and two leading drivers.

McLaren - All is pending on their new major sponsor to be announced.

Lotus - Need money.

 

So it's not about not recognizing his worth, it's just seats require money or marketable expereince.

[Lucass]

Nico Hulkenberg is -IMO- the best bar the champions.

 

I agree. It would be sad to see him not get the Lotus seat and it would be disgrace for the sport if drivers like Sirotkin and Gutierrez are getting seats and for Hulkenberg to be left without one. I also agree that he is the best of the non World Champions and possibly better than Button already. But I think his chances of getting the Lotus seat are very strong.

Bollocks really. Sure Hulkenberg is a very good driver and I hope he manages to find a seat for 2014 but the best of the non World Champions is just idiotic.

He can't hold a candle to Nico Rosberg yet and is just in a group of very talented drivers who are just below the top drivers with Grosjean, Perez, Sutil, DiResta, Vergne and Ricciardo.

 

No point in going overboard with 'Megatalent' possibly overlooked after a very good Monza race.

[Dolph]

Still, it boggles the mind a bit.

[Talisman]

True, but I still don't know why he left Force India. Sauber was already going downhill last year before Hulkenberg even signed. He should show more loyalty and try to build with Sauber. But no, I get the feeling Hulkenberg only cares about Hulkenberg.

 

 

 

Why did he leave FI?  I dunno, maybe because one team owner looked like his businesses in India were going down the pan while the other faced a multibillion dollar penalty from Indian courts for ripping off Indian customers?  At some points last season it didn't look like FI would make it to 2013 let alone be more competitive than Sauber.

 

I think Sauber's financial situation only became clearer when they demanded Kobayashi raise significant sponsorship to match Gutierrez' Mexican money, but by then it was way too late, Hulkenberg had already made the switch.

 

Its easy enough to criticise the switch with hindsight but the decision to leave FI seemed very sensible at the time.

I personally think Lotus will take him unless they want an experienced driver to help them through the regulations change next year and help development, but there aren't many good available experienced drivers out there.  Why would they take Massa who has already been officially classed by Ferrari as not good enough?

[Talisman]

McLaren knee jerked and selected Perez?  Do you have a source for that?  Perez has shown talent from day 1 at Jerez.  McLaren definitely selected the best of the rest when they took on Perez, imo.  He will be champion one day and if the Macca was capable of fighting for position this season, he'd be doing so.  It is madness to base his ultimate ability on this season's performance.  He has made some dumb rookie-in-a-top-car mistakes, but all young drivers do. 

 

Hulkenberg has shown flashes of brilliance, but Macca knew what they were doing in picking Perez over him.  I agree Hulk appears to merit a better seat based on what he has shown so far - and if he keeps it up, he'll get one.

Whitmarsh at the time said there wasn't much difference between Perez, Hulkenberg and Di Resta in terms of pace.  You are absolutely correct that Macca knew what they were doing when they signed him.  Hulkenberg is one out of many German F1 drivers and one of the least marketable compared to Schumacher and Vettel.  Macca didn't want an all British line-up as it limited their drivers' market appeal so Di Resta was out.  Perez offered both a line to Telmex money and a latin face to push in the rising South American markets.

 

Hulkenberg has done a wonderful job so far keeping drives on pure talent alone while Glock, Kobayashi, Kovalainen and others have failed to do so, the fact that many of those names are no longer with us is an indication of how difficult things are for many teams on the grid.

[Anderis]

Bollocks really. Sure Hulkenberg is a very good driver and I hope he manages to find a seat for 2014 but the best of the non World Champions is just idiotic.

He can't hold a candle to Nico Rosberg yet and is just in a group of very talented drivers who are just below the top drivers with Grosjean, Perez, Sutil, DiResta, Vergne and Ricciardo.

I disagree. I don't think Hulkenberg is in the same tier with di Resta. In the last 6 races of 2012 the closest finish between them was 28 seconds. It shows how much gap there was between them. Surely di Resta was doing better than that earler in the season, but Nico was definetely a bit rusty at the beginning of 2012 after not participating in a single race for 16 or so months. When he got on top of his form, it was quite a domination over Paul.

 

Considering the fact Sutil is unable to dominate di Resta, I would put him below Hulk as well. Grosjean, Perez, Vergne, I think they all lack some kind of consistency that Nico has. Hulks makes the least mistakes of all them and even if he has a worse day, he is never dominated by his team-mate (you may claim Gutierrez is not a proper benchmark, although one could realise he is doing better comparing to Hulk than di Resta was at the end of last year, but this also applies to last year and di Resta). He may be beaten, but it's never a big margin.

 

I really believe that Hulk is by far the most complete package from current grid apart from WDCs and another Nico.

Edited by Anderis, 17 September 2013 - 21:39.

[Lucass]

I disagree. I don't think Hulkenberg is in the same tier with di Resta. I

 

I really believe that Hulk is by far the most complete package from current grid apart from WDCs and another Nico.

You seem to have a bit of a bee in your bonnet about DiResta but apart from that we don't fundamentally disagree.

Hulkenberg is a very talented driver in the/a tier below the Champions and Rosberg, only you rate him the best.

Also you -conveniently- left out Ricciardo.

 

I think the differences are marginal and think the teams do too. Also other factors come into play such as sponsors, experience and marketability which is why Maldonado, Massa and Guiterrez also come into play for some seats.

 

Nico Hulkenberg should be on the grid next year but he's not the overlooked 'Megatalent' some try to make him out to be here for various reasons

[rasul]

I don't know how true it is, but my friend heard from some paddock people in Hungary that Sauber isn't impressed with Nico. If it's true, it would explain why no top teams seem to be very interested in him. Everyone in the paddock knows each other and rumours like that spread fast. 

[discover23]

megatalent is really pushing it.

[FNG]

I don't understand the hype around him to be honest. I haven't seen anything of note. The only thing that caught my eye was him throwing away a win in Brazil last year. He seems ok, but it would be nice to see him do a few consecutive years in one team. Having said that I would have taken him over Perez if I were Mac.

[TheUltimateWorrier]

I don't know how true it is, but my friend heard from some paddock people in Hungary that Sauber isn't impressed with Nico. If it's true, it would explain why no top teams seem to be very interested in him. Everyone in the paddock knows each other and rumours like that spread fast. 

 

Interestingly, Andrew Benson alluded to this in one of his previous newz stories. Sauber allegedly weren't too complimentary of Hulk in their reports for Ferrari. Whether what Benson is saying is to be taken with a pinch of salt is upto you.

 

Kimi Raikkonen: Lotus move to convince driver not to join Red Bull

Ferrari's list of alternatives includes Hulkenberg, Force India's Paul Di Resta and Marussia's Jules Bianchi.

The reports they are getting from Sauber about Hulkenberg have not been positive, despite the obvious promise he has shown in some races, particularly in leading last year's Brazilian Grand Prix for Force India.

[discover23]

His hype is all in here.. on this forum.. I am sure Mclaren had all of the data and they went for Perez, that move right there actually devaluated him.

[Tron]

Interestingly, Andrew Benson alluded to this in one of his previous newz stories. Sauber allegedly weren't too complimentary of Hulk in their reports for Ferrari. Whether what Benson is saying is to be taken with a pinch of salt is upto you.

 

Benson also said Kimi to Ferrari won't happen.

[Tron]

Just remember that drivers like Piquet and Lauda took some seasons to be eyed by the big teams, and for some time struggled in the middle pack, so don't write off Perez so early in this year's dreadful car.

 

Kimi in his first season for McLaren was also hot and cold.

[MattPete]

Interestingly, Andrew Benson alluded to this in one of his previous newz stories. Sauber allegedly weren't too complimentary of Hulk in their reports for Ferrari. Whether what Benson is saying is to be taken with a pinch of salt is upto you.

 

Perhaps Sauber should have suggested Kobayashi, who they seemed to go out-of-their-way to praise towards the end of 2012 (and downplay Perez's higher finishes as due to team strategy differences)

[pingu666]

I suppose it comes down to have his best performances been down to luck and surcamstance, or is he inconsistant, or are they the expsional races of a great driver?, like lewis at hungry for example.

 

also it might be sauber not liking his attitude...

[Alfisti]

 

Where has this myth of his brilliance come from?  Isn't he just another guy with excellent pre-F1 credentials who has failed to set F1 alight?  A bit like Bourdais.

 

Come on now, I dunno about brilliance but he's been pretty damned good for two years now. I definitely have him ahead of Perez, Koybayashi, Sutil, DiResta, Vergne etc at this point, based on what I have seen anyway. His rookie year was average to poor but he was excellent last year and again this year. 

 

I also understand 100% why he left Force india, this time last year there were lots of rumours suggesting the money was drying up and the team would be decimated. Sauber looked solid with a real owner rather than the dodgy moneybags that doesn't pay his bills, so frankly i would have jumped ship too but it just has not worked out. 

 

Now, ABSOLUTE last place i want to be next year is Lotus, serious chance they fall apart from a lack of cash and brain drain despite the immense depth they have there at Enstone. Maybe best to stay put unless he can land a top drive but i sense his urgency, he needs to land a drive before he is forgotton. If i were McLaren i'd be all over him, Perez has question marks, Button is getting older and franklyas much as i like Jenson I mean really if he qualifies 10th and Perez 11th, I am sure the team is thinking "jesus is this a 10th place car or it is a 6th or 7th placed car if Hamilton's driving it?"

[Flyhigh]

Some drivers just take longer to get to the top teams. Barrichello for instance showed great potential since 1993 and only landed a seat at Ferrari in 2000, Irvine was there who is clearly not as good. I believe Hulk  would have been a better choice for Ferrari, I was skeptical of him at first, I was more of a fan of Barrichello and was not that impressed by his first season at Williams, but he has really impressed me, constantly appearing on races in places where his car is not supposed to be,, fighting with Ferrari or Lotus, Mercedes even though the Sauber is a true middle of the pack team. Not only that, he seems to have great work ethic and be continually getting better, I have little doubt in 2-3 years he will be absolutely top tier material and I think Ferrari passed on the opportunity to have them for an old dog in kimi from who we have seen all the tricks already and is highly unlikely to really challenge Alonso even though people are overrating him to the max at the moment as if is some Senna Vs Prost situation.    

[jjcale]

People say he doesn't have stand out races .... but he doesn't do bad races either.... give this guy a decent car and he will maximise the opportunity.... in 2013 with Pirellis and no refuelling, that is what is required not mega talent  ... SV has proven that.... NH is probably on a similar level.

[ForeverF1]

Driver threads are not allowed. If or when there is specific news regarding Hülkenburg, then please start a thread about that news. - Closed