484 replies to this topic

[kimister]

 Vettel    stressful moments...

 

Edited by kimister, 21 September 2013 - 21:28.

[JohnCooperF1]

you are confusing stress with anxious...

 

What I see is a chap who having set a very fast time then sat out the rest of the Q3 (under advisement of his team)... the timing of the photograph was when in the final minutes the point where he could take to the track to attempt a faster time had passed and as his competitors closed in on his time he was naturally feeling anxious... but feel free to think it was stress it is your right.

[apoka]

Congrats to Vettel and Rosberg! Great laps! Grosjean was also damn close at the end - beating Webber who was happy with his lap. Ricciardo continues to show good form even with a bit more pressure / spotlight now. 

Edited by apoka, 21 September 2013 - 22:32.

[SPBHM]

I'm a little surprised with how close Rosberg was to Vettel... with Gutierrez and how bad Ferrari is at the moment.

 

but, it looks like another Vettel domination for the race, 

[KOMORI]

That's your opinion. If he isn't a special racing driver, I don't know who on that grid is.

I'd have to agree. I'm not a fan of Seb's by any margin but by the beard of Zeus the kid is damn good. Period.

[Der Pate]

These days I often think of Niki Lauda in his greatest days (1975/1976), when Qualifying time was almost unlimited and Niki simply drove one fast lap, got out of the car and left the track, because he knew, that he couldn't go faster, and it was pole!

[Tron]

These days I often think of Niki Lauda in his greatest days (1975/1976), when Qualifying time was almost unlimited and Niki simply drove one fast lap, got out of the car and left the track, because he knew, that he couldn't go faster, and it was pole!

 

I think Senna mastered that, as he always did a lap, then waited in the garage for anyone to go near it, then with the clocking ticking he blasted another unbeatable time.

[JohnCooperF1]

Senna was indeed the master of the pole

[Andrew Hope]

I'm new here. Who is Senna?

[sennafan24]

I'm new here. Who is Senna?

Blasphemy!

[JohnCooperF1]

Every true F1 fan knows Senna.... first name Bruno, I think his uncle dabbled in F1 as well

[sennafan24]

That's your opinion. If he isn't a special racing driver, I don't know who on that grid is.

"Special" is not a word I would use personally, Elite is the word I would use in general. For this year, best is what I would call Vettel on pure merit.

 

Best car or not, it was hard not to be impressed today,

[sennafan24]

Every true F1 fan knows Senna.... first name Bruno, I think his uncle dabbled in F1 as well

Yeah I remember his Uncle, had a few arguments with a short frenchman if I recall right.

[JohnCooperF1]

I can't think of any modern era (last 30 years) champion that has held universal admiration, Senna has come close but I believe that was post his death, maybe Mika or Mansell but most have divided the fans.

It has been shown time and time again that F1 is not a walk in the park and so to make it to and stay in F1 for any real length of time take a talented driver... to achieve a few wins means you are a cut above (sure some have had a lucky right place right time win) and so I would say to win double figures and a championship makes you special... and to win multiple championships is exceptional (IMVHO)

[JohnCooperF1]

Yeah I remember his Uncle, had a few arguments with a short frenchman if I recall right.

Those where the days...

[Racer3]

I'm a little surprised with how close Rosberg was to Vettel...

I think it was mainly due to Rosberg's run being at a later point in time. The track got faster by the minute and IIRC almost everybody bettered their times after Vettel had got out of the car. IMHO not very clever decision by driver and team for once.

I'd venture to say Vettel would have bettered his time by several tenths had he tried at a later stage again.

[sennafan24]

I can't think of any modern era (last 30 years) champion that has held universal admiration, Senna has come close but I believe that was post his death, maybe Mika or Mansell but most have divided the fans.

It has been shown time and time again that F1 is not a walk in the park and so to make it to and stay in F1 for any real length of time take a talented driver... to achieve a few wins means you are a cut above (sure some have had a lucky right place right time win) and so I would say to win double figures and a championship makes you special... and to win multiple championships is exceptional (IMVHO)

I was just really stating my preference of semantics, not saying that Vettel could not be defined as special, he is achieving with in my opinion the highest level of driver competition since the Senna/Prost/Piquet and Nigel days, as he has at least 2 or 3 elite drivers near their peak on the same grid as him. Whatever can be said about other variables, its still impressive what Vettel does most race weekends, and sometimes magical in cases like Germany this year.

 

I agree that no driver is universally admired, some like Lewis, Vettel and Schumi polaerise more than others.

[JohnCooperF1]

I'd venture to say Vettel would have bettered his time by several tenths had he tried at a later stage again.

That is a safe bet, but his/teams gamble paid off (this time) and we/other teams are left 'wondering' could he have bettered it... no point telling your rivals too much too soon.

[JohnCooperF1]

I was just really stating my preference of semantics, not saying that Vettel could not be defined as special, he is achieving with in my opinion the highest level of driver competition since the Senna/Prost/Piquet and Nigel days, as he has at least 2 or 3 elite drivers near their peak on the same grid as him. Whatever can be said about other variables, its still impressive what Vettel does most race weekends, and sometimes magical in cases like Germany this year.
 
I agree that no driver is universally admired, some like Lewis, Vettel and Schumi polarise more than others.

True. The field that you race against must be a big factor, of course that doesn't help when the argument against him is it is the car beating better drivers...

[sennafan24]

True. The field that you race against must be a big factor, of course that doesn't help when the argument against him is it is the car beating better drivers...

I will concede, whilst I thought Vettel was a very good driver and top 5 on the grid, I felt he was generally a rung below Lewis and Alonso before 2013, and was prone to using the "car" argument to a great degree. 2013 I think he has improved his performance, and is the best driver on merit this year, I have been more impressed by this year than 2012 by a country mile.

[Racer3]

That is a safe bet, but his/teams gamble paid off (this time) [...]... no point telling your rivals too much too soon.

That's right, but today they were so close to having long faces. OTOH, the gamble paying off spared us a server break-down

[JohnCooperF1]

While it is evident that I am on the side of Vettel in these matters I fully expected that it would be Lewis who would have multiple back-to-back championships. He is an entertaining driver to watch, Alonso and Kimi also I would rate as being entertaining.

But they too are less entertaining when the win a race pole to flag. Vettel best races are when he fights the field rather than leads them...

It would never be allowed but the system in touring cars when the top drivers in a race must start the next race in the reverse order... that would spice up the races a bit

[Disgrace]

I agree. Bianchi was hyped up based on couple of opening races of the season, where he indeed seemed to go well, but since then he hasn't done anything above average I'd say. I have actually noticed someone like van der Garde more, who seemed like a factor in both Monaco and Belgian Grands Prix.

 

Well I wouldn't say it was Bianchi or Pic getting worse, rather their rookie counterparts simply getting used to F1.

 

Like Karthikeyan last year, the pay drivers of this year are quietly doing a good job such that we're not noticing them on track.
 

[Raven8]

While it is evident that I am on the side of Vettel in these matters I fully expected that it would be Lewis who would have multiple back-to-back championships. He is an entertaining driver to watch, Alonso and Kimi also I would rate as being entertaining.

But they too are less entertaining when the win a race pole to flag. Vettel best races are when he fights the field rather than leads them...

It would never be allowed but the system in touring cars when the top drivers in a race must start the next race in the reverse order... that would spice up the races a bit

Lewis lacks the lobby , but this is a very differnt subject

[Neolew]

I will concede, whilst I thought Vettel was a very good driver and top 5 on the grid, I felt he was generally a rung below Lewis and Alonso before 2013, and was prone to using the "car" argument to a great degree. 2013 I think he has improved his performance, and is the best driver on merit this year, I have been more impressed by this year than 2012 by a country mile.

 

 

Vettel is a good driver but people are underestimating the dominant red bull car and overestimating sebs so called dominating race pace, remember vettel has NEVER won a race in a car that wasn't designed by adrian newey..

 

yes he has dominated team mate Mark webber but mark is an average driver who is 37 years old. Mark is clear number 2  driver used as backup for the "chosen one " much like verstappen and barrichello was to schumacher.

 

 

Also Number 1 drivers sometimes are favored with 'speicial' cars with higher perfomance, one clear example of this is  Schumachers 1994 Benetton .... http://www.youtube.c...h?v=CJf6ZkSMWHY

[HP]

But it's nonthelss boring and tiresome

I'd think this is not the fault of any team or driver, but just that the Formula1 formula is broken (maybe not commercially for the time being) and nobody knows how to fix it. Or as long as the cash flows, the people in charge are not too interested to change things too radically.

[Alfisti]

What happens to Webber when he bolts on the SS tyres? He goes from being faster than Vettel to substantially slower. In other news, great lap by Gutierrez, that Sauber is beginning to show some promise late in the season, with Hulkenberg 11th too.

 

I suspect webber heats his tyres quicker and the cook by the end if the lap when on SS

[Kelateboy]

That's right, but today they were so close to having long faces. OTOH, the gamble paying off spared us a server break-down

 

If Sebastian fans were nervous watching his rivals' sector times, imagine the man himself. 

 

I never thought Webber was capable of getting that pole as he has been struggling with options all week long, despite him purpling his S1 time. But Rosberg really gave me a fright especially with his green S1 time, and a green S2 time. He took all chances in S3 going milimeter off the wall, and nearly paid off.

[MattPete]

Senna was indeed the master of the pole

That's what Piquet said...

[exogenesis1203]

What a shame that Nico or Mark couldn't snatch pole, I would have loved to see Vettel's face. And his reaction afterwards (apparently he now has to show the finger three times, just to make sure the camera caught it) proved to me again how arrogant he is and only acts the nice guy when being interviewed.

At this point I'm pretty sure he waves his finger around just so he can feeds on the tears of whiners such as you.

[Dozer]

I will concede, whilst I thought Vettel was a very good driver and top 5 on the grid, I felt he was generally a rung below Lewis and Alonso before 2013, and was prone to using the "car" argument to a great degree. 2013 I think he has improved his performance, and is the best driver on merit this year, I have been more impressed by this year than 2012 by a country mile.

 

Whilst I admire your change in stance it's pretty obvious reading the above post you've bought into the opposite party, the group that pretend there's no car, no WCC Championship and dominance of said Championship which would indicate? Hmmm, tricky one that

 

You do realize F1 is probably something like 80% car 20% driver? How did Webber suddenly transform in 2009 into a frontrunner (albeit inconsistently)?

 

I understand for an easy life on here it's better to take your stance but I've been watching too long to ignore those things that take the drivers round the track and appear in pretty much every photo next to them, they've gotta be significant!

[DarthWillie]

Whilst I admire your change in stance it's pretty obvious reading the above post you've bought into the opposite party, the group that pretend there's no car, no WCC Championship and dominance of said Championship which would indicate? Hmmm, tricky one that

You do realize F1 is probably something like 80% car 20% driver? How did Webber suddenly transform in 2009 into a frontrunner (albeit inconsistently)?

I understand for an easy life on here it's better to take your stance but I've been watching too long to ignore those things that take the drivers round the track and appear in pretty much every photo next to them, they've gotta be significant!

So Lewis or Alonso winning it would mean nothing because their cars just made it possible?

What utter nonsense, if you really followed f1 this long you would have noticed somehow the great drivers always show up at the front. Sure there will be days their car won't allow them to win bit even in those seasons there will be flashes of brilliance.

Simply put , one does not win 3 wdc with just the luck of the best car. Vettel is relentless and a top tier driver

[SophieB]

Please do not turn the thread devoted to FP and Qualifying into yet another round of 'Sebastian Vettel: is it just the car or is he amazing?'

Drop it.

[sennafan24]

Whilst I admire your change in stance it's pretty obvious reading the above post you've bought into the opposite party, the group that pretend there's no car, no WCC Championship and dominance of said Championship which would indicate? Hmmm, tricky one that

 

You do realize F1 is probably something like 80% car 20% driver? How did Webber suddenly transform in 2009 into a frontrunner (albeit inconsistently)?

 

I understand for an easy life on here it's better to take your stance but I've been watching too long to ignore those things that take the drivers round the track and appear in pretty much every photo next to them, they've gotta be significant!

Far from "buying into the opposite party" I just try and be objective as possible with my subjective opinions and consider both sides of the argument and make a firm conclusion.

I have not deemed Vettel to be the best in general, just that this season his relative performance has impressed me most out of the top 3 (Kimi would make it a top 4, but I think he is a tad behind, the kimi of 2005-2007 was in the same league though)

 

2012 I thought Vettel was only Champ on paper and that Alonso or Lewis performed better, this year is a different story. Car advantage or not, Vettel has been really good this year, and deserves credit. I can overlook the beneficial variables this year more than the previous 3.

 

Edit: Sorry just noticed the above post and being on-topic.

Edited by sennafan24, 22 September 2013 - 10:08.

[Dozer]

Far from "buying into the opposite party" I just try and be objective as possible with my subjective opinions and consider both sides of the argument and make a firm conclusion.

I have not deemed Vettel to be the best in general, just that this season his relative performance has impressed me most out of the top 3 (Kimi would make it a top 4, but I think he is a tad behind, the kimi of 2005-2007 was in the same league though)

 

2012 I thought Vettel was only Champ on paper and that Alonso or Lewis performed better, this year is a different story. Car advantage or not, Vettel has been really good this year, and deserves credit. I can overlook the beneficial variables this year more than the previous 3.

 

Edit: Sorry just noticed the above post and being on-topic.

 

 

Sorry for OT too Sophie...