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Team Principals reluctant to go TESTING and would prefer 3/4 more RACES instead !


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#1 eronrules

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 18:51

after watching the Team Principals press conference, i was pleasantly surprised to see how mid to lower midfield teams are reluctant to go testing and questions the benefit of it.

 

here's the transcript of the Team principals press conference from sinapore gp

 

http://www.fia.com/n...press-conferece

 

 

Q: (Joe Saward – Grand Prix Special) On the question of testing, can anyone of you think of a good argument this time next year when Bernie says ‘look, you’ve gone to four tests, you haven’t earned any money, why don’t we have four more races in 2015?’

 

EB: Four is not enough. Ten more is better.

 

Q: Could you race more, is that possible?

 

FT: This is what I always request. I prefer to have more races where we gain money instead of spending money for nothing, therefore I would prefer to maybe have two races more or three or four races more – I don’t care – instead of going testing for eight days where we go out to do some laps for nothing in the end, because reliability – as we can see – is no longer an issue. Ten, 15, 20 years ago we could say OK, we need to do some tests so that the cars become more reliable. That’s no longer the case. What we are doing now is to create a new test team, because the theory that the race team will do the tests on Tuesday and Wednesday is absolutely wrong because they have to go home to prepare the cars for the next race. That means that on Sunday, the test team will fly in, then we do the test on Tuesday, Wednesday, then they go back. It’s not only testing, it means bringing new parts, because the development will be increase and these are the costs.

 

CW: I think there are so many considerations.  Like Franz said, the major one for bringing testing in is that you’ve got to create a new support team.  A few years ago, Williams disbanded - whatever the word would be – our designated test team so now we’re looking at additional costs to create a new test team because you can’t have your race mechanics and engineers working that amount of time but then there are other considerations. Could you use those days for a young driver development programme, for example, that could bring in revenue for the teams? So it’s definitely conversations that we’re having internally at the moment to see which would be better whereas I don’t know whether... you bring in four more races a year or... Eric wanting ten more races. You’re going to have to bring in more personnel to support that as well, so I think again, it’s all about costs isn’t it?

 

EB: Just to comment on this, when I said ten more races, I know we face the same problem that today we have a team sized for twenty races, so if we go one or two more races, I think we would struggle if we could do it, but if you had ten more we would have to have a second team. This is why I said ten actually, because four races would be difficult but it’s better to race than test.

 

BF: I think Eric’s got a very good point there in terms of the amount of races, but the advantage you have of testing as opposed to having two or three races imposed on you is if you could make the choice of whether you wanted to go testing. You don’t have to do that, you do have to do races.

 

Q: (Fredrik Af Petersens – Honorary) Just a comment, and I agree with Franz when it comes to testing, but your father, Claire, once said, a few years ago when there was a lot of testing, that ‘the first race of the year, my car is about half a second slower than the quickest one. Then we go testing. At the end of the year, my car is quicker but still half a second slower than the quickest one.’ So why go testing and, as Franz says, spend a lot of money?

 

CW: That’s true.  Yeah. I do think that there is an argument that over the course of a year, if you start the season... to use an example, where we were at the start of this year, if we had had the opportunity to do some test days after the first few races, after Bahrain or Barcelona, it may have helped us, we don’t know, so I think there’s an argument for both sides

 



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#2 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 19:14

Not too surprising really. They make more money with race exposure than testing.



#3 Rybo

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 19:16

F1 is a business, and it makes sense that teams would rather get some compensation. I doubt teams would be willing to do 30 races. Assuming they retain the same March-November, they would need a race almost every weekend.

#4 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 19:18

F1 is a business, and it makes sense that teams would rather get some compensation. I doubt teams would be willing to do 30 races. Assuming they retain the same March-November, they would need a race almost every weekend.

Could only be possible if you have multiple races in one country I think. For example Hockenheim and Nurburgring back to back, or Monza and Imola back to back etc.


Edited by DutchQuicksilver, 20 September 2013 - 19:18.


#5 eronrules

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 19:33

the fact of the matter is this as stated by the Team principals, why extra in-season track testing (apart form season openers)isn't desirable for the majority of the teams ....

1. the Simulation process has become so much sophisticated nowadays that it's possible within a certain degree of accuracy to predict the outcome of the real life situation. (as long as the correlation is ok)

2. the simulation tools have become refined and commercially easily available for any team with reasonable budget. it's the computing power and brain power that dictates success.

3. it's easier to design and simulate components in the computer and then in the WT as opposed to on track.

4. Engines, gearboxes and suspensions can be easily and accurately tested on Test rigs in controlled and desirable conditions that is not possible in real track, in these regards, Track testing is just a waste of time and money.

5. Test teams needs to be employed with transportation, catering and accommodation facilities, the money needed could be used instead in the simulation process and WT to develop the car more. also, on track testing is depended on weather variable.

6. one of the biggest issues is the Scheduling of races and the transportation of race cars and gears from one GP to another after each race. it has to be timed to reduce cost and ease of transport. it sounds like a good idea to test immediately after a GP race, but it would be a logistical nightmare and would increase the cost many folds.

7. not all teams will be able to bring upgrades to test on a regular basis, either due to lack of production facilities or due to budgetary issues. only the top tier teams will be able to utilize the track testing and as a result they'd increase the gaps in competitiveness ever further, making for less exciting GP's

Edited by eronrules, 20 September 2013 - 19:49.


#6 Atreiu

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 19:34

Abu Dhabi, Bahrain, Dubai and Qatar could all run back to back to back to back.

Bahrain could actually have two GPs.



#7 eronrules

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 19:36

Abu Dhabi, Bahrain, Dubai and Qatar could all run back to back to back to back.
Bahrain could actually have two GPs.


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#8 SpartanChas

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 19:38

Bahrain could actually have two GPs.


Oh that would be great.

Ten more gps just wouldn't work. I doubt Bernie would find another ten venues which could afford a GP and then a couple more again when countries like Korea decide to stop having one.

#9 Rybo

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 19:43

You would have to break the calendar up, by continents. But logistically it would be a nightmare, as soon as you finish one race you would only have a maximum of 2 days to break everything down and set it up again.

#10 undersquare

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 19:51

If they can't do the 2-day follow-on testing with the race teams then that whole concept is a mess.



#11 MikeV1987

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 20:42

3/4 more races in North and South america please  :wave:



#12 undersquare

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 20:52

I agree.

But how else could F1 realistically afford 25+ GPs? Nevertheless 30...

I think Tost isn't completely mad.  It's the races that generate the exposure that generates the money.  

 

More races means more TV time, more sponsor value, more advertising, track fees...the whole money machine expands.  And if it expands a lot then teams can scale up to the extra personnel and resourcing.

 

There's a threshold where it could work: more than 2 extra races, more like 10.  And 30 races is still only 57% of weekends.  I like it  :smoking: .



#13 Tonka

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 21:19

I believe only football is the only sport that's not suffered from overexposure.  When we had 15 GPs a year, I didn't mind losing the Sunday afternoons, but the thought of practically every summer Sunday watching yet another procession will kill off F1 for me and many others.



#14 KingTiger

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 21:29

I think Tost isn't completely mad.  It's the races that generate the exposure that generates the money.  

 

More races means more TV time, more sponsor value, more advertising, track fees...the whole money machine expands.  And if it expands a lot then teams can scale up to the extra personnel and resourcing.

 

There's a threshold where it could work: more than 2 extra races, more like 10.  And 30 races is still only 57% of weekends.  I like it  :smoking: .

 

The amount of money per race would exponentially decrease with more races, as there are only so many fans/race tracks that are willing to pay the ridiculous price associated with going to a grand prix. Even the Abu Dhabis and Bahrains of the world are careful with their F1 spending, otherwise they'd sponsor teams. 



#15 undersquare

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 21:33

The amount of money per race would exponentially decrease with more races, as there are only so many fans/race tracks that are willing to pay the ridiculous price associated with going to a grand prix. Even the Abu Dhabis and Bahrains of the world are careful with their F1 spending, otherwise they'd sponsor teams. 

It's true the increase in money wouldn't be pro rata but the increase in costs wouldn't be either.



#16 undersquare

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 21:45

I believe only football is the only sport that's not suffered from overexposure.  When we had 15 GPs a year, I didn't mind losing the Sunday afternoons, but the thought of practically every summer Sunday watching yet another procession will kill off F1 for me and many others.

We have options, recorders; it could be like a BBC style, watching some live and some off disc in the evening.

 

How are you defining 'overexposure'?  Most sports can't get enough exposure but they play as often as they can.



#17 pingu666

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 22:36

they could run more gps now, we would just get parts that last longer, or be cheaper.

they have a budget, for a top team a lot gets blown on updates. Small teams might need more money tho



#18 nosecone

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 22:46

30 Races? Anyone thought about the staff at track?



#19 undersquare

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 23:22

30 Races? Anyone thought about the staff at track?

That IS the thought - with that many races they could run two track teams.  Tost saying that if there's going to be a separate test team, for in-season testing, why not a second race team instead, with enough extra races to pay for it.  As I said, not quite as mad as it sounds at first.



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#20 Tonka

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 03:23

We have options, recorders; it could be like a BBC style, watching some live and some off disc in the evening.

 

How are you defining 'overexposure'?  Most sports can't get enough exposure but they play as often as they can.

 

Several sports have died the death on tv - snooker, indoor bowls, darts & strongest man come to mind.  They are still shown on pay channels, but the viewing figures are down from when they were hugely popular. 

 

I'm sure you'll be thinking there's no connection with F1,  but there is.  All of those sports have a small number of champions (darts has only had 1 in a decade) and they play on pretty much the same 'pitch' all the time.

 

Where are the parallels with F1.  There are are only a few competitors and only 4 or 5 winners each year and for many, the tracks all look the same.  Look at the modern circuits - a flat tarmac track about 50 ft from the public all the way around, and the way Bernie's cameras are set up - nothing to see except cars, seen from the same angle at every corner.  The casual viewer - and the BBC needs them - will become bored seeing what will come across as the same race every 2 weeks.  They turned off in the MS/Ferrari years and they will do it again.



#21 Kelateboy

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 03:57

Several sports have died the death on tv - snooker, indoor bowls, darts & strongest man come to mind.  They are still shown on pay channels, but the viewing figures are down from when they were hugely popular. 

 

I'm sure you'll be thinking there's no connection with F1,  but there is.  All of those sports have a small number of champions (darts has only had 1 in a decade) and they play on pretty much the same 'pitch' all the time.

 

Where are the parallels with F1.  There are are only a few competitors and only 4 or 5 winners each year and for many, the tracks all look the same.  Look at the modern circuits - a flat tarmac track about 50 ft from the public all the way around, and the way Bernie's cameras are set up - nothing to see except cars, seen from the same angle at every corner.  The casual viewer - and the BBC needs them - will become bored seeing what will come across as the same race every 2 weeks.  They turned off in the MS/Ferrari years and they will do it again.

 

Formula 1 was originally a European motorsport. As of late, it has branched out to almost all continents. Nowadays, you have as many races in Asia as you do in Europe, and more populous nations are being added to the list every year. It may wane in popularity in traditional hotspots, but it gains more viewers in new places - a net addition overall.

 

The ever increasing TV money shows that F1 is gaining in popularity, and not losing it. There are more countries willing to shell out big bucks to BE than those dropping out due to exorbitant fees from hosting a GP. 



#22 Tonka

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 11:17

Formula 1 was originally a European motorsport. As of late, it has branched out to almost all continents. Nowadays, you have as many races in Asia as you do in Europe, and more populous nations are being added to the list every year. It may wane in popularity in traditional hotspots, but it gains more viewers in new places - a net addition overall.

 

The ever increasing TV money shows that F1 is gaining in popularity, and not losing it. There are more countries willing to shell out big bucks to BE than those dropping out due to exorbitant fees from hosting a GP. 

 

Don't kid yourself.  Everything on tv goes through peaks and troughs.  F1 may be huge in China - today.  Eventually it will settle down to a hard core of followers, with peaks when a favourite event or occasion turns up.



#23 JHSingo

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 12:09

How many more races? Soon we'll have a 30 race calendar, or something truly ridiculous. :drunk:

 

I personally feel that there are too many races already. Formula One is supposed to be a premium brand, and the more races you have, it lessens the value.

 

Less is more.