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Lotus E21 (part 3)


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#101 SpaMaster

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 14:14

Grandpa Kimi showing signs of age? Well nah, this is the same problem as when he started out rallying in 2010 isn't it?

It goes back to a testing crash at Barcelona in 2002. Could be one of the French circuits as well, but it was testing and it was a high speed corner.

 

Actually, the problems are much more older than that. Rallying brought it into the public knowledge, but as far as I know, this is all caused by a nasty accident he suffered in Magny Course many years ago

 

Edit: Vesuvious says it's Barcelona. Probably he's right, I have a pretty bad memory for those things :)

 

Ha, what a coincidence! I was also thinking Magny Cours after the Barcelona first thought.


Edited by SpaMaster, 21 September 2013 - 14:20.


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#102 SilentKiller

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 14:14

Don't think Lotus should risk Kimi tomorrow.



#103 Iremos

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 14:14

I say give Valsecchi a chance. The championship for Kimi is lost since the two pointless finishes in the last two races, he secured a drive for Ferrari next year, he does not receive any money from Lotus for now and he has a back injury which makes him surely very uncomfortable in the car.

 

From my point of view, it looks very reasonable to sit it out tomorrow, but we know Kimi is a competitive man and I myself know this feeling when faced with such circumstances the last thing you want to do is stay at home, but once your body speaks there is no decision left.



#104 kimister

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 14:16

Then , it is better for Kimi not to race   :cry: The back problems can be really dangerous and shouldn't risk it further.



#105 Vesuvius

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 14:16

"BBC F1's Tom Clarkson reports that Lotus say Kimi Raikkonen's seat wasn't fitted properly and he hit a kerb quite hard yesterday which caused the problem with his back."

well done, unfortunate thing :(

 

I think had Kimi got trough Q2 he could have qualified as high as 6th today as the gap to Grosjean was around 0,6 so he should have been able to do 1,43,6 or better at q3 but well it´s what it´s.



#106 Artkab2013

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 14:17

I say give Valsecchi a chance.

Unfortunately it's too late now.



#107 Vesuvius

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 14:18

It goes back to a testing crash at Barcelona in 2002.

 

 

wasn´t it 2005?



#108 Iremos

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 14:19

Unfortunately it's too late now.

 

Is it though? I'd like to believe that he could still replace the injured Kimi, but maybe Parc Ferme rules forbid it.



#109 Vesuvius

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 14:21

Is it though? I'd like to believe that he could still replace the injured Kimi, but maybe Parc Ferme rules forbid it.

it´s impossible to replace Kimi...Lotus would have to run only with Romain.



#110 kimster89

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 14:25

Im following f1 for years and i have never heard for a race seat to be improperly fitted.



#111 kimister

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 14:27

Kimi decided to race. I hope there won't be an accident during the race ,otherwise the back can get worse.

 

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/110025 



#112 Iremos

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 14:28

Well, if that's the case I hope that Kimi and his physio will take everything into consideration and they have surely enough experience to make the right decision regarding Kimi doing the whole race tomorrow. But, a prematurely retirement or a mediocre race by Kimi would not surprise me at all tomorrow. A storm to the higher point regions on the other hand would blow me away.



#113 Radion

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 14:29

It goes back to a testing crash at Barcelona in 2002. Could be one of the French circuits as well, but it was testing and it was a high speed corner.

 

 

Ha, what a coincidence! I was also thinking Magny Cours after the Barcelona first thought.

Barcelona 2005:

 


Edited by Radion, 21 September 2013 - 14:30.


#114 Iremos

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 14:29

Boullier on Sky just said that Kimi had a painkiller injected into his back before Qualifying. Ouch!



#115 kimster89

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 14:31

They gave him a painkiller and still was slow? That is a bad news.



#116 Vesuvius

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 14:32

Boullier on Sky just said that Kimi had a painkiller injected into his back before Qualifying. Ouch!

of course he had, it would have been impossible to drive without it. hopefully it will get better tomorrow, but usually it only gets worse :(



#117 Vesuvius

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 14:33

They gave him a painkiller and still was slow? That is a bad news.

it doesn´t help, it takes the pain away but the back is too stiff to work with. Also Kimi already said they lost todays morning qualifying setup work so that´s why the time was like it was, race setups were done yesterday and Kimi was fast, so good points are target.



#118 SpaMaster

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 14:36

well it is a mix of both I believe. Shitty track for Kimi, and Supersofts were never working for him actually.

elt's see what Grosjean is capable of

Shitty track for Kimi? Can you substantiate this? He is 1s slower than Grosjean because of track shxxttiness? Oh please..

 

Back to qualy: It seems like Lotus is a great car here and Grosjean should have a fair chance of winning, again. He should not muck it up like he had done so many times in the past.



#119 Iremos

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 14:39

I am happy for Romain, he is such a likeable guy and he deserves a little success after all the bashing he went through for his past mistakes.



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#120 kimister

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 14:46

Painkillers cannot be so effective on back problems. I know since I had also that kind of trouble sometimes and it just gets worse and definitely not recover in just a few days, so he will not possibly finish tomorrows' race.



#121 OSX

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 14:59

Injured Raikkonen Determined to Race

21 September 2013

 

oubZ0G3.jpg

 

Kimi Raikkonen is determined to race in the Singapore Grand Prix despite the back pain that left him only 13th on the grid.

An issue related to a trapped nerve left the Lotus driver in severe discomfort on Saturday.

 

The team got reserve driver Davide Valsecchi prepared to stand in before Raikkonen was cleared to drive in qualifying.

 

Full Article: Autosport.com/news/report.php/id/110025

 



#122 Artkab2013

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 14:59

I pray on start incident like in Monza. Kimi doesn't need to drive tomorrow. Gro easily could get a podium, maybe a lucky win. There is no need to sacrifice Kimi's health.



#123 nectar

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 15:00

I hope that Kimi does not race tomorrow and I'm saying this as a hardcore Kimi fan. Health is much more important than any race or profession in general. Once you are injured your body needs time, time, time and there is no way around it.

 

My concern as well. Sometimes it's just a thin line between being heroic or utterly stupid. Health is everything. No one says he has to risk it on one race. I mean Lauda pulled out of that final race and gave away a Championship! Yet I still think that was the right thing to do.

I hope Kimi stays true to his condition but he should know better than us.



#124 SpaMaster

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 15:00

wasn´t it 2005?

I am pretty sure it was 2002. But what I could not point out to was the exact track. Either Barcelona or one of the French tracks. He had a big crash in 2005 also. But this started way earlier. The good thing is it can be brought under control with a bit of treatment. Something must have amplified this yesterday. He looked good initially in FP1, but he was already looking a bit lagging in FP2.


 



#125 kimister

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 15:01

I pray on start incident like in Monza. Kimi doesn't need to drive tomorrow. Gro easily could get a podium, maybe a lucky win. There is no need to sacrifice Kimi's health.

 

I am sure Kimi is the one who wants to race and we know he is just too stubborn  :mad:



#126 SpaMaster

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 15:02

Trust: Do you even keep track of F1 news, at least Kimi and Lotus' if they are your interests? It was all over Autosport even before qualy on how Kimi was in a back pain scare and they were asking Valessechi to get ready?

 

Vesuvius: Consistency is not what I would expect from a driver suffering from back pain. Sorry that is not a criteria anymore in his case. His first in Q2 was great, but he could not shoot for it again.

 

To all those insensitive to Raikkonen's back pain and claiming shitty-track for him: :down: Just like in Monza, Spa and Hungary, don't be surprised if he is the one doing the more impressive drive tomorrow even after initial set-backs. The sectors where he loses more are the more physically demanding sectors. You won't go from being close to the best in S1 to almost a second off in the last sector alone. Take the hint, people.



#127 artista

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 15:18

Boullier on Sky just said that Kimi had a painkiller injected into his back before Qualifying. Ouch!

¡ay!

That hurts just by the thought of it :well:



#128 Vesuvius

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 15:20

I am pretty sure it was 2002. But what I could not point out to was the exact track. Either Barcelona or one of the French tracks. He had a big crash in 2005 also. But this started way earlier. The good thing is it can be brought under control with a bit of treatment. Something must have amplified this yesterday. He looked good initially in FP1, but he was already looking a bit lagging in FP2.

 

2005 he had this http://www.gpupdate....he-heart-of-f1/...could be that he had one 2002, can´t remember, I will have to read his book again to find out...I remember there was something indeed now that I really try to remember, but it wasn´t at barcelona...maybe at paul ricard 2002...people should also remember Kimi had back surgery at 2010, so his back problems are when appearing much worse than just normal pain, also back in 2009 during jerez testing Kimi had back problems caused by bad seat of F60.


Edited by Vesuvius, 21 September 2013 - 15:26.


#129 kimister

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 15:23

Boullier:"We have to monitor Kimi's back tonight and we'll see tomorrow" #F1 #SingaporeGP



#130 SophieB

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 15:25

Some posts removed. Please put a lot of care into your posts when making serious allegations about a team's ethics or actions towards their drivers and give evidence to back it up.



#131 Trust

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 15:26

Trust: Do you even keep track of F1 news, at least Kimi and Lotus' if they are your interests? It was all over Autosport even before qualy on how Kimi was in a back pain scare and they were asking Valessechi to get ready?

 

I've already know about those back pains. I'm just saying that Boullier said something like it wasn't big deal if I heard correctly. Neverthless, my point was that today's Kimi's bad performance can only be excused because of those pains. And I agree with you that those arguments like Kimi is shit with this track or Kimi is shit with SS isn't the way to go. People were using those excuses like it's something normal to expect that Kimi is so bad at Singapore. You can't expect that from a top driver, that's why I think all this bad performance came from back pain. Please read more carefully what have I wrote and to whom I replied.



#132 SpaMaster

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 15:33

Yeah, I don't understand where this story of Kimi being bad at Singapore originated. In 2008, he went from around P18 to P5 in what was an inspirational come-back drive until he crashed with a handful of laps left. That is not what I could call being shxxxy at this track. He does just fine at this track just like any other track. The weekend could have been a massive points haul for Lotus, they should have had reason to aim for the maximum, 1-2.



#133 artista

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 15:35

You have to love the Autosport guys, they came in our help:

 

the crash that caused Räikkönen's actual back problems happened in Magny-Cours in 2001

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/110033



#134 Artkab2013

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 15:36

I've already know about those back pains. I'm just saying that Boullier said something like it wasn't big deal if I heard correctly. Neverthless, my point was that today's Kimi's bad performance can only be excused because of those pains. And I agree with you that those arguments like Kimi is shit with this track or Kimi is shit with SS isn't the way to go. People were using those excuses like it's something normal to expect that Kimi is so bad at Singapore. You can't expect that from a top driver, that's why I think all this bad performance came from back pain. Please read more carefully what have I wrote and to whom I replied.

Read post #129.

Perhaps Eric would be more convinced to you this time.



#135 Vesuvius

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 15:38

Yeah, I don't understand where this story of Kimi being bad at Singapore originated. In 2008, he went from around P18 to P5 in what was an inspirational come-back drive until he crashed with a handful of laps left. That is not what I could call being shxxxy at this track. He does just fine at this track just like any other track. The weekend could have been a massive points haul for Lotus, they should have had reason to aim for the maximum, 1-2.

only because of his quali problems, on races he has done ok in terms of pace compared to team mates. There is still possibilty to collect good points with Kimi, even podium is not out of the reach.. there is concerns about his car overheating, hopefully it will get sorted. Grosjean will surely fight from top 3 positions tomorrow.



#136 Menace

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 15:38

Well done Grosjean, and Kimi for toughing it out.

 

Hopefully his back will not force a retirement tomorrow.  :(



#137 Vesuvius

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 15:39

You have to love the Autosport guys, they came in our help:

 

the crash that caused Räikkönen's actual back problems happened in Magny-Cours in 2001

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/110033

Thanks!:) indeed..and he has had several bad crashes since than and that back surgery 2010. Kimi said his back is actually always in pain but sometimes it just get worse and worse.



#138 kimister

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 15:44

Ok let's talk a little about race  :p

 

Do you reckon Romain has a chance to win the race tomorrow ? I remember from yesterday Kimi's race simulation was quite good.



#139 Menace

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 15:47

Ok let's talk a little about race  :p

 

Do you reckon Romain has a chance to win the race tomorrow ? I remember from yesterday Kimi's race simulation was quite good.

 

With Vettel at front, it seems unlikely but I think the pace is there to at-least make it interesting as long as he can get right on Vettel's tail at the start.



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#140 Vesuvius

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 15:57

Ok let's talk a little about race  :p

 

Do you reckon Romain has a chance to win the race tomorrow ? I remember from yesterday Kimi's race simulation was quite good.

of course there is a chance for him to win but Vettel was clearly the fastest during yesterdays long runs and he had some more pace on the car today so he will be the favourite for tomorrow, but it´s not impossible to win him..it depends about the start and pitstops, strategy and how tyres will last.

 

Kimi to TS:

- my back was so bad today morning that I almost stopped driving and thought I couldn´t drive this weekend anymore.

- at least we got quali done and got the car to the grid, usually a lot happends in this race so everything is possible tomorrow, lets see what we can do.

-I will start the race but if the pain will get as bad as today morning, it will be difficult to finish.

-today morning, I could not do the setup work I was supposed to do. We changed car setups to the qualifying and it´s easy to say after qualifying that it was a mistake and we should have kept the same setups as this morning/yesterday. We did the best we could, but because of these limitations we couldn´t do what we wanted.



#141 JRodrigues

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 16:15

The problem with painkillers is that you loose sensitivity, and the back is where you feel how the car is behaving (as well as losing some feel in the legs)



#142 kimister

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 17:49

'' Raikkonen initially complained of some discomfort in Friday practice but on Saturday he was in significant pain, to the extent that he could not breathe while braking for Singapore's 23 corners. '' via BBC

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk..._medium=twitter 



#143 jedioriginal

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 18:03

Ok let's talk a little about race  :p
 
Do you reckon Romain has a chance to win the race tomorrow ? I remember from yesterday Kimi's race simulation was quite good.

nääh,Crashjean will **** up as always:) I really hope he does well. He has been through tough times and a bit of succes would do him good.Go Gro!

#144 SpaMaster

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 18:16

I am very impressed with E21 here as bad as it looked at Spa and Monza. But this selective performance is becoming a trend and all-round car should be the focus in the future. A weekend with a chance to win.

 

Any news on whether they would race passive DRS at Suzuka?



#145 Seanspeed

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 18:18

'' Raikkonen initially complained of some discomfort in Friday practice but on Saturday he was in significant pain, to the extent that he could not breathe while braking for Singapore's 23 corners. '' via BBC

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk..._medium=twitter 

He surely cant do a race distance then. 



#146 race addicted

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 18:22

Perhaps not the best outlook for Räikkönen with his back problems, but I guess the team is thinking it's better to start with him, perhaps get a point or two, or start with Valsecchi from the back.



#147 falalalalaland

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 18:27

Poor boy. Hopefully his back holds up. We might get lucky with the SC.



#148 SpaMaster

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 18:28

No, Valsecchi can't start this race anymore. Either Kimi drives or the car is retired.



#149 race addicted

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 18:31

Ah, right, since he hasn't started in any sessions today right?



#150 Vesuvius

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 18:32

I have weird feeling we will end up to the result Vettel-Kimi-Grosjean tomorrow :o I know it looks hopeless now but lets see what happends.