193 replies to this topic

[Forma1]

As an ever Ferrari-fan and Michael Schumacher fan, for some time an Alonso-admirer, I have to admit it is time to change. I don't have any doubts Alonso is easily one of the all times greats. He might not be the fastest, but when it comes to Sunday, he is the best. His starts, his moves, the only one who is comparable in terms of race craft is Lewis, but he is prone to do more mistakes. Alonso is just the best racer and fighter.

 

4 years to have wasted. Two times missed the title on the last event in a mediocre car. He has turned 32 years, he was in his top form last year, there is just downhill from now on. I would LOVE to see Fernando/Ferrari to grab titles after titles, but I wish him the very best and I think he could try in another team, maybe in a McLaren-Honda in two year's time. Why? However, I think Vettel is great, I just can't stand Alonso could retire only as a two-time-champ, while Seb is already four-times and can it make thousand times with RB. 

 

 

[Forma1]

I have to refine my question, maybe it is not that simple: Is he ONE of the all time greats?

Edited by Forma1, 21 September 2013 - 21:02.

[Lucass]

Where is the to another sport option?

 

I think Fernando should move to cycling now that he has his own team.

Lots of possibilities there and cycling forums are a lot of fun too Forma wink wink

 

(another quality answer to another quality thread)

[docronzo]

He should go to McLaren-Honda and take Flavio Briatore with him as team leader!

[Anderis]

I think Alonso is some kind of tired of Ferrari. I guess he would never expect he is yet to score a WDC with Ferrari after driving for them for 4 years in row. If he gets a really good offer for 2015, I think he should at least consider it.

 

But a lot of things may change next year. If Ferrari have the best car and if Alonso can cope with Kimi, then I guess he can change his mind and stay in current team until he retires. But another option is that other team may come with a surprisingly good car, much better than Ferrari, and they may be in need to hire someone like Alonso to capitalise from that. It can go either way.

 

It's slightly surprising for me that we have some major moves from drivers between teams now, not one year later.

[Vesuvius]

He should just take what he has chosen, he chosed Ferrari..so he should deal with it until the end of the contract. He is without a doubt a one of all time greats (with more than ten other greats) but currently I think he is losing his best status and at the moment Vettel is doing the best job from all.

[Wanderer]

As an ever Ferrari-fan and Michael Schumacher fan

 

That's quite ironic considering how mad you go against team/driver domination in other threads.

 

 

I would LOVE to see Fernando/Ferrari to grab titles after titles

 

See above.

Edited by Wanderer, 21 September 2013 - 21:44.

[Forma1]

That's quite ironic considering how mad go against team/driver domination in other threads.

 

 

See above.

Yeah, in one of my comment I wrote Ferrari's dominance.

 

The other: title after title: yeah, you can win titles in close battles. Vettel wins while RB is dominating.

[MikeV1987]

He's one of the all time greats for sure, but not an all time best. He should stick to his guns at Ferrari since he really has nowhere to go.

Edited by MikeV1987, 22 September 2013 - 09:36.

[Wanderer]

Yeah, in one of my comment I wrote Ferrari's dominance.

 

The other: title after title: yeah, you can win titles in close battles. Vettel wins while RB is dominating.

 

Two of the last three years have been quite close. So was this year until most teams seemed to have decided to abandon it for next year.

[sennafan24]

He is not the "greatest" in my view, the guy mentioned in my username is the guy I give that title to, but he is an all time great in my book. Thing with Alonso is, this long dry spell of no titles may harm his legacy. Being beaten/tied by Lewis in his rookie year and having a dominant force in Seb/RB in the same era may harm his legacy

 

Beating Kimi would add to his legacy next year, as he probably needs a head to head win over a top class teammate for added validity, Alonso has never had that many top-notch teammates if you look back. You could even argue that Vettel facing a prime Webber in 2009-2010 is a sterner test than any Non-Lewis teammates Alonso has had.

 

That said, he did bring the Schumi era to a close, and I believe it was Alonso and Kimi on pure driver merit who eventually caught up to Schumi, after a decade of Schumi being the best driver on the grid. Alonso's efforts in 2012 I hope will be remember like Senna's in 1993 (to a slightly lesser extent) the best pure driver on the grid fighting a team with a better car. 

 

My knowledge/opinions of F1 is only thorough from the late 80's to present day, and depending on what day you ask me on I will give a different answer to where I would rate Alonso among the likes of Senna, Prost and Schumi. I could some days ignore the stats/WDC's and look at relative performance and observations and rate Alonso as being a better driver than Schumi and not far off Prost, other days I I dismiss him and put him on a lower tier with the likes of Vettel, Mika and Lewis, other times I may put him in between.

 

But Alonso and co's careers are not over yet, I am only judging on the current landscape. I hope he makes a change personally, a gamble at this late stage to McLaren Honda could be a wise move for 2015.

Edited by sennafan24, 21 September 2013 - 21:49.

[Andrew Hope]

Jesus Christ. If four years without winning the F1 championship driving a Ferrari is four years wasted we should all go kill ourselves immediately.

[sennafan24]

Jesus Christ. If four years without winning the F1 championship driving a Ferrari is four years wasted we should all go kill ourselves immediately.

I do not see anyone saying that?

[scheivlak]

I do not see anyone saying that?

Read the opening post again.

[sennafan24]

Read the opening post again.

Fair enough, well spotted.

 

Although the grammar used had a lot to be desired.

[Szoelloe]

No, he is not an all time best. He can't leave Ferrari, he has nowhere to go.

[weston]

No. He is not a "best" (to be among the best Ferrari drivers ever). Far from it.
Stay. There is no real alternative.

Edited by weston, 21 September 2013 - 22:33.

[JohnCooperF1]

1. No
2. Stay

[Tron]

This is the same question with Schumacher before winning his title in 2000. Certain fans were already demanding his head, and after he retired, the same fans wanted him back.

 

And nope, he's not an all time best, and yes, he should stay at Ferrari.

[Radion]

Just for the record:

He blew the wdc in 2010 all by himself by jump starting in china, crashing in monaco and again crashing in spa.

 

One of the all time greats? Yes.

Should he leave ferrari? No.

[JohnCooperF1]

One of the all time greats? Yes.

I don't believe that was the question otherwise I also would have answers in the affirmative.

[Radion]

I don't believe that was the question otherwise I also would have answers in the affirmative.

I think he refined the question?! Read post #2

[JohnCooperF1]

Aha... I don't see the option but then I recant my original vote of No and change it to a Yes.... but my vote for him to stay remains.

[RaikkonenZn]

I think one can only review if a driver is an all time great at the end of his career - is Alonso on his way to being an all time great? I would say Yes- but for me he must also win another championship in another team in the Vettel/Hamilton era. 

 

As for whether he should stay or go - well I'd like to see him race Kimi in Ferrari in 2014 & then move to Mclaren in 2015 with Honda. I mean who wouldn't want to see Mclaren Honda resurgent with a World champion at the wheel?

 

EDIT: Really should've put a "Not as yet" option in the poll..

Edited by RaikkonenZn, 21 September 2013 - 23:26.

[William Hunt]

sigh ... another topic on Ferrari or Alonso or Kimi....

[JohnCooperF1]

you have to play to the audience...

[JimiKart]

4 years in the trash bin, if next year is the same then it's off to the best option.

[HP]

About the first question. He's one of the best of the current driver. Is he one of the all the time best is harder to define for me. I immediately thought that Alonso so far is easily the best of the almost greatest..Let's see what next year holds in store.

 

The second question, have him stay at Ferrari, because if greatness is being achieved by switching teams..

[RealRacing]

1. Don't think "all-time" should apply to active drivers. As of now, no.

 

2. The only team where FA can subsist in the long term without eventually clashing with superiors is the one with the best car all season long, so I guess he should leave. But since next year is supposed to be a re-shuffle, he might as well wait and see if Ferrari are fastest.  If things weren't changing more or less dramatically next season, he'd had left already. The thing is, both him and Ferrari don't have better choices at the moment.  Then again, wasn't he supposed to build another winning team from within a-la Schumi?

[HoldenRT]

I've always had a hard time believing he will leave.  So it makes it hard to discuss anything.

 

However, if Ferrari truly started producing bad cars, he probably would.  But that won't happen.  They'll always be in the points and capable of podiums.  Even more so than McLaren.  And if they have a bad car, they always fix it.  I think this is part of the reason he'd never leave, and the other part is that Ferrari has the prestige and he's worked to be #1 in that team.  And in some ways, to leave he can only go backwards.  Even to go to Redbull would be a step back in some people's eyes.. to go from Ferrari to a drinks company.  He just has to hope that Ferrari produce a better car.. or that Redbull/Vettel have problems in the future.

[velgajski1]

One of the best current drivers and one of the best 2xWDC drivers, but no more than that. Since his last title, he had 3 more solid opportunities yet came out without titles. Also, he had entire Ferrari resources at his disposal yet he failed to 'build' a winning team which was long term goal.

[Winter98]

At this point in his career, I put him in the second tier of drivers, one notch below Fangio, MS, Senna, Prost, Ascari...

 

SV isn't likely to leave RBR unless RBR tanks, in which case there would be no point in FA going to RBR.  So he should stay at Ferrari, it gives him his best chance at another WDC.

Edited by Winter98, 22 September 2013 - 02:48.

[Shambolic]

 

Beating Kimi would add to his legacy next year, as he probably needs a head to head win over a top class teammate for added validity, Alonso has never had that many top-notch teammates if you look back.

 

He's comfortably beating the guy that was at one stage comfortably beating Kimi. And if he went to McLaren, chances are he'd be up against Button. You know, the guy that one a championship more recently than Kimi, and who then went on to hold up fairly well overall against Hamilton.

 

I'm not convinced Ferrari are on the right path to success in the immediate future, and McLaren are to me more likely to be back on top form sooner. So if McLaren became a genuine option for him, he could "prove" himself going up against someone with the same number of titles as Kimi, in a car with better chances of winning the title.

 

In other words, why would beating Button be less of a victory than beating Kimi? And why should he turn down the chance, if it's an option and the car is looking to be stronger than the Ferrari?

[George Costanza]

IF Fernando does not win another title, I believe he's the best two time world champion. But I do believe he will win one more or two, then retires....

[Boxerevo]

Yes and stay.

[Kingshark]

Yes, he is one of the best of all time, top 10 IMO.

 

I think he will give Ferrari one more try in 2014 with the new regulations. If Ferrari build the best or equal best car, he will stay. If they struggle again like 2009, he will (sadly) move to another team, probably McLaren.

 

I want the Fernando and Ferrari duo to win overdue championships, nevertheless.

[dave34m]

 

1. No
2. Stay

 

same

[jedioriginal]

He's comfortably beating the guy that was at one stage comfortably beating Kimi.

LOL,is that the best argument you got?IMO not yet.Alonso needs to win one more wdc with Ferrari before he can be even considered one of the best.

Edited by jedioriginal, 22 September 2013 - 05:50.

[sopa]

IF Fernando does not win another title, I believe he's the best two time world champion. But I do believe he will win one more or two, then retires....

 

Better than Clark? If pushed and had to choose between the two, I'd take Clark.

[DarthWillie]

It took Schumacher 4 years to win a title with Ferrari. Alonso should just keep working at it. There are no instant successes

[W154]

Maybe he should join Ross Brawn at Williams.

Alonso + Brawn + Williams  = Winners !

[PaulTodd]

 I find it very amusing that people don't look at him as an all time great. 

 

And he will stay as a Ferrari driver until the end.

[Kelateboy]

Ferrari screwed his title chance in 2010. Otherwise, he could easily have been considered as top-5 all time great drivers.

 

He still has time, though. Who knows maybe next year Ferrari's engines would have a 50BHP advantage over their competitors.

[sennafan24]

He's comfortably beating the guy that was at one stage comfortably beating Kimi. And if he went to McLaren, chances are he'd be up against Button. You know, the guy that one a championship more recently than Kimi, and who then went on to hold up fairly well overall against Hamilton.

 

I'm not convinced Ferrari are on the right path to success in the immediate future, and McLaren are to me more likely to be back on top form sooner. So if McLaren became a genuine option for him, he could "prove" himself going up against someone with the same number of titles as Kimi, in a car with better chances of winning the title.

 

In other words, why would beating Button be less of a victory than beating Kimi? And why should he turn down the chance, if it's an option and the car is looking to be stronger than the Ferrari?

Massa is not seen in general as high a class a driver as Kimi, but yeah I agree Button would be a notch in his bow. 

 

I alos actually agreed above he should take the risk and go to McLaren Honda, my point was it will help his legacy next year by beating Kimi, and then making a switch to McLaren in 2015.

[jedioriginal]

Ferrari screwed his title chance in 2010. Otherwise, he could easily have been considered as top-5 all time great drivers.

He still has time, though. Who knows maybe next year Ferrari's engines would have a 50BHP advantage over their competitors.

This is news to me...So it was Ferraris fault that he jump started at China,crashed in couple of races.Get real please.

Edited by jedioriginal, 22 September 2013 - 10:26.

[mzvztag]

While it may be said that some issues were of his own doing, I still think that Alonso was exceptionally unlucky post-2006.

When translated into "old money" (10 points per win), he lost 3 titles in last race with a total margin of less then 5 points for all 3 seasons together.

That's incredible, that's unheard of in F1.

Prost came close in the first part of his career, losing by 2 points in 1983 and 0.5 in 1984 (1988 was a special case) but then won 4 titles.

I was always thinking that luck somehow evens out over a whole career of a driver and, IMHO, the history looks like it has been so but here I simply cannot help feeling that Vettel won one more and Alonso one less than deserved, to put it simple.

[mardmarium]

- Yes, he is one of the all time greats

-No, he shouldn´t leave Ferrari

 

If the number of championships were the reference for being considered one of the best, Senna should never be considered the best one. Alonso 2012 performance was on Senna level, even if he doesn´t win another tittle, his 2012 performance will always be there. On the other hand, every driver makes mistakes, even Senna. They are human beings, what did you expect?

 

He shouldn´t leave Ferrari because nobody knows what will happen in the future and Ferrari has the resources and the prestigious. Besides, having Kimi as teammate next year can be a new challenge. I really think Alonso wants to win the title with Ferrari. It will probably depend on the car, if the car is the best or near the best in 2014, he will stay, if the car is far behind, it will probably depend on the others (Mclaren, Red Bull) car. 

[discover23]

Yes
Stay

[George Costanza]

Better than Clark? If pushed and had to choose between the two, I'd take Clark.

 

Well, to be fair, different eras, but you bring up a good point.

 

 

- Yes, he is one of the all time greats

-No, he shouldn´t leave Ferrari

 

If the number of championships were the reference for being considered one of the best, Senna should never be considered the best one. Alonso 2012 performance was on Senna level, even if he doesn´t win another tittle, his 2012 performance will always be there. On the other hand, every driver makes mistakes, even Senna. They are human beings, what did you expect?

 

He shouldn´t leave Ferrari because nobody knows what will happen in the future and Ferrari has the resources and the prestigious. Besides, having Kimi as teammate next year can be a new challenge. I really think Alonso wants to win the title with Ferrari. It will probably depend on the car, if the car is the best or near the best in 2014, he will stay, if the car is far behind, it will probably depend on the others (Mclaren, Red Bull) car. 

 

His 2012 season was like Senna in 1992-1993 and Schumacher in 1997-1998. Just amazing display of art behind the wheel.

Edited by George Costanza, 22 September 2013 - 16:01.

[OldSoldier2]

Not an all time great yet. Needs a 3rd WDC for that. Clark was cut down in his prime and is an exception. Alonso should get credit for competing in an era of very talented competition though (Vettel, Hamilton, Kimi).

 

He should stay with the red team as it offers it him the best chance for success in the future. Also, I can't figure out what team would want him. Mercedes, no. They have two solid racers. McLaren, no. Burnt bridges. Red Bull, no. He is not part of their "system."