784 replies to this topic

[HeadFirst]

If you wanted to watch racing, this was a pretty good show. Aside from a mistake-free run from Vettel, you got to see a demon start from Alonso, a race run on pure character from Raikkonen, and some aggressive (but fair) passing and defending from an assortment of drivers (Rosberg, Hamilton, Hulkenburg, Massa and others). There was also some heartbreak (Webber and Grosjean), and some interesting calls from the stews. I was entertained.

[Iremos]

I don't like you. I take it this is your fault?

 

I welcome the dislike of hypocrites.     

[thechin]

Vettel really was phenomenal today. I was stunned how he was pulling a gap of 2+ seconds over Webber consistently. That must be special. But that said, Webber kind of struggles at Singapore, so that amplified the gap. But anyone who thinks few other drivers are better than Vettel is in for a rude awakening when they ever pair with Vettel. Booing is just now a chain reaction, I am sure the dogs and cats in the track are also booing by now and at this rate he would be booed at the Wimbledon championships, the Moon, the temples and EyesWideShut parties. There is no real reason. It just means he wins a lot. Kudos to Red Bull for presenting such a nice to car Vettel.

 

Alonso. Stunning start. From there on did well to keep the position pretty much.

 

Raikkonen. Lit it up. P13 to P3 while being unwell is what I could expect from him. Hats off to the pass on Button. It was thrill stuff to watch the two fairest drivers get closer and closer and resulting in a somewhat of a cat-and-mouse overtake. Good strategy by Lotus to bring Raikkonen earlier. That got him 3-4 places I think.

 

Mercedes had no chance the moment SC came in. They could have never finished the race from there without stopping.

 

Perez. Another weekend overshadowed by Button.

 

Webber. I can't believe this is the guy that helped Red Bull win so many WCC. I have given him merit for that. But I am also wondering, may be the second drivers of other top teams are even worse, or, the car was carrying him a bit.

 

Grosjean. Underwhelming start and that compromised the good work done yesterday. From there on so and so. Lotus really needs to get Hulkenberg for the second seat. Hulk may be eyeing the McLaren seat as well. di Resta would be the next best option.

Thank god we will find out next year then when he is paired with the almighty Daniel Ricciardo. Real tough challenge that one. 

[skc]

Somehow, I get the feeling the booing would suddenly stop the minute Vettel sets foot in a Ferrari.

 

Strange that.

[Tomerell]

Quite interesting, isn't it? If Grosjean is racing for wins or podiums, and Raikkonen is behind, everything happens to the Frenchman. Alternator failure, engine failure, pitstop screwup, or just suddenly his pace drops and Raikkonen can get ahead. You would think that after Raikkonen's hostile comments against a team which gave him such a great car and a clear no. 1. status, the team is changing its focus to the other side of the garage. Then the same shite happens: Grosjean ahead, looking for podium, Raikkonen is behind, and suddenly Grosjean's car breaks.

 

Nice "coincidence" of life, isn't it?

 

I want the same medicine you have been odered to take... You must be very high atm

Edited by Tomerell, 23 September 2013 - 06:20.

[Borko]

I didn't like when Brundle said Alonso is rubbish in qualifying. Not the best for sure, but rubbish?

[Tomerell]

Quite interesting, isn't it? If Grosjean is racing for wins or podiums, and Raikkonen is behind, everything happens to the Frenchman. Alternator failure, engine failure, pitstop screwup, or just suddenly his pace drops and Raikkonen can get ahead. You would think that after Raikkonen's hostile comments against a team which gave him such a great car and a clear no. 1. status, the team is changing its focus to the other side of the garage. Then the same shite happens: Grosjean ahead, looking for podium, Raikkonen is behind, and suddenly Grosjean's car breaks.

 

Nice "coincidence" of life, isn't it?

 

And one other thing, Were those crashes Roman had last year also manipulated by the team... wake up... Roman is a good driver but he just isn't great, at least not just yet....

Maybe Kimi just is a tad bit better driver and thats why the team has had more focus on him, at least he has brought more than twice as much points as Roman, hasn't he

[Spillage]

Just noticed Chilton was ahead of Bianchi today, as well as VdG ahead of Pic, which is the reverse of the norm.

 

Does anyone know if Pic and Bianchi had some problems, or did their teammates just up their game this weekend?

 

EDIT: Remember Brundle mentioning some problem for Bianchi - steering wheel, I think it was. Anything on Pic?

Edited by Spillage, 22 September 2013 - 23:02.

[scheivlak]

Just noticed Chilton was ahead of Bianchi today, as well as VdG ahead of Pic, which is the reverse of the norm.
 
Does anyone know if Pic and Bianchi had some problems, or did their teammates just up their game this weekend?
 
EDIT: Remember Brundle mentioning some problem for Bianchi - steering wheel, I think it was. Anything on Pic?

I was never really a fan of van der Garde, but I have to admit that he has upped his game quite considerably the last few races. He's more or less able to match Pic's performances these days and is occasionally ahead.

[spaceace1977]

I was never really a fan of van der Garde, but I have to admit that he has upped his game quite considerably the last few races. He's more or less able to match Pic's performances these days and is occasionally ahead.

 

Since Hungary (new tyres) things changed for VDG. Great qualifying at Spa with 3rd in Q1 and 14th in Q2.

 

Race results since Hungary:

 

VDG: 14  16  18  16

PIC:  15  RT  17  19

BIA:  16  18  19  18

CHI:  17  19  20  17

Edited by spaceace1977, 23 September 2013 - 06:38.

[mastermind]

I was paying attention to to the backmarkers in live timing as well. Some interesting things:

 

After the safety car, VdG somehow managed to pass Bottas and keep him behind for a while. Same happened at the start of the race.

Chilton was pulling away from Bianchi and was pretty much on pace with the Caterhams. Although maybe Bianchi had trouble with his car, since before the SC he was miles behind anyone.

 

Anyway, it's nice to see these guys steadily improve as the season progresses.

[Jon83]

I didn't like when Brundle said Alonso is rubbish in qualifying. Not the best for sure, but rubbish?

Brundle was talking rubbish the whole race. He even managed to have a dig at Grosjean for being upset/disappointed/whatever at having to retire.

[rjsports]

Just noticed Chilton was ahead of Bianchi today, as well as VdG ahead of Pic, which is the reverse of the norm.

 

Does anyone know if Pic and Bianchi had some problems, or did their teammates just up their game this weekend?

 

EDIT: Remember Brundle mentioning some problem for Bianchi - steering wheel, I think it was. Anything on Pic?

 

Bianchi had to change a steering wheel. And both the Marussia's where having problems. Van der Garde overtook Pic and Bottas at the start and managed to keep it like that for most of the race. The only reason he was behind at the end was because Pic tried a 2 stop, but when VDG passed him he made a third stop 6 laps before the end.

 

The race was pretty boring, but at the same time incredible i've never seen a driver lapping 2 seconds per lap quicker than the number 2. The championship is already decided if it wasn't already. Also I can't believe why Mercedes didn't even made it to the podium, they where really aiming for this race. Good job from Alonso and Kimi who made this race somewhat interesting. 

[icecream_man]

One thing suddenly struck me yesterday - during the MS era we had to put up with half of the race following him out in front on his own and missed a lot of the midfield action, these days Bernie's crew have got their act together much more and despite the fact the race was utterly dominated in tedious fashion, what we got on the TV coverage I found quite exciting to watch, Kimi's great drive and superb overtakes along with many other closely fought battles through the field, so I take my hat off to FOM for providing coverage that was worth watching in what could have been a very dull show. I stopped watching during the MS dominated years, but this season I've found that although finger boy is running off with it there's still plenty of action worth switching on for

[Zeroninety]

Somehow, I get the feeling the booing would suddenly stop the minute Vettel sets foot in a Ferrari.

 

Strange that.

 

Most of the winning would stop as well, though (unless, of course, he brings Newey with him).

[TheUltimateWorrier]

On a lighter note to all this booing, I loved how Ted Kravitz was fascinated by Gutierrez's neck and head. Pondering if poor Gutierrez has a tiny head   .

 

Kravitz: "And unfortunate for Esteban that he had tyre wear issues, actually. . . err, why he couldn't convert his err. . . err. . . his THICK neck! He couldn't convert his position err. . . in qualifying. . . . Or maybe it's a small head."

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=7xa2lh6dObU

 

(From about 5 mins)

[Andrew Hope]

I don't think Ted Kravitz should be having a go at anyone else's looks to be honest.

[GiancarloF1]

Come on man, why don't you give it a rest for a while and see how it feels. I feel for you, we can all see how sad you still are, but it's time to let go. Yes, we all know Kimi drove Fisi to retirement and took away his rep, but I'm sure Fisi is already over it so why shouldnt you. The most bizarre feature of some Montoya and Fisi fans has been the fanatic attempt to try to make Kimi look like a slow bad driver. But if Kimi is so bad, then what does that make Fisi? The worst driver in the history of F1?

 

Good to see so many flames to my observation about Grosjean's situation, as it means something was spot on... but this takes the cake. All your argument is just an irrelevant 5-race battle 4 years ago, when Fisi jumped into a car which was totally different to his natural driving style, and never even tested it properly.

 

But FYI I have never rated Raikkonen as a true top tier driver. Never rated his 1 point WDC as well in the best car against a team with inner wars, nor his other results. Sure, he is a very good driver, but no more than Webber or Massa (who happened to destroy him for 2 years). Grosjean is also faster in qualifyings. Vettel, Alonso and Hamilton are all miles ahead.

 

If something opposite happens in the remainder of the season, I will eat my humble pie for my post in this thread. At this moment everything points to the evidence that Grosjean is held back every time, when he happens to be ahead of Kimi and race for the podium.

[GiancarloF1]

And one other thing, Were those crashes Roman had last year also manipulated by the team... wake up... Roman is a good driver but he just isn't great, at least not just yet....

Maybe Kimi just is a tad bit better driver and thats why the team has had more focus on him, at least he has brought more than twice as much points as Roman, hasn't he

 

Sure, twice as many points, when Grosjean lost massive podiums finishes with car failure. It's just the same argument which have been used against Hamilton, who was outscored by Button 672-657 in their 3 years together.

And I haven't talked about his poor races in the second half of last season. Sure, he looked totally off after that Spa incident, but this year is a different story.

Edited by GiancarloF1, 24 September 2013 - 16:11.

[Nonesuch]

Interesting radio comment by Lewis Hamilton after he was informed of the result, posted today on F1Fanatic.co.uk. As we know, Hamilton finished about 2 seconds behind Rosberg. It seems, however, that he wasn't aware he was racing his teammate:

 

Peter Bonnington: 'That’s P5, Nico obviously P4. Vettel P1, Alonso and Raikkonen second and third, they hung it out on the [medium] tyre.'

Lewis Hamilton: 'This whole time you haven’t given me any information. I thought I was racing with Perez.'

Peter Bonnington: 'OK sorry about that, Lewis. Guess you can’t see your pit board then.'

 

Given the rather striking difference between the green and red rear-wings of the Mercedes and McLaren cars, could the visibility at the track be worse than it looks on TV?

Edited by Nonesuch, 26 September 2013 - 10:26.

[apoka]

That explains why he didn't try an overtake. 

[Exb]

I have listened to the radio feed and I'm not sure he does say "racing Perez" (nor does it make sense) - I think he says he thought he was racing for third. (which is why his engineer then asks if he couldn't see his pit board as his position would have been on that).

[Nonesuch]

I have listened to the radio feed and I'm not sure he does say "racing Perez" (nor does it make sense) - I think he says he thought he was racing for third. (which is why his engineer then asks if he couldn't see his pit board as his position would have been on that).

 

Interesting. I haven't heard the audio so I can't comment, but wouldn't the pitboard have equally stated something like +2.0 ROS or PER? The reference to the pitboard doesn't seem to favour either interpretation. Incidentally, Lewis noted earlier that he couldn't read his pitboard because it was held at too high an angle. However, your take on it does make more sense when you consider that Lewis must surely have been able to see which team the car in front of him belonged to (hence my initial question about the visibility). In any case, I thought it was a rather odd comment.

[Exb]

I got the audio from F1PitRadio on twitter, will try and put a link on when i get home. Can't do it now as I'm at work. I reckon Lewis didn't realise Fernando and Kimi had stayed out and was infront of him possibly?

[Nonesuch]

That'd be interesting! According to the transcript on F1Fanatic.co.uk, Peter Bonnington told Hamilton on lap 53 that 'There’s a group of five cars ahead on 27-lap old [medium] tyres. You’re going to be on top them very soon: three laps, estimated.' But it does seem Mercedes was thinking Alonso (and Raikkonen) would pit again. Two laps earlier, Tony Ross told Nico Rosberg: 'Alonso is outside your window at the moment but if you lose another second he’ll be past you at the stops.'

[Diablobb81]

Well Merc made what was probably the biggest strategy mistake this year but it's more important to talk about booing and charisma.

[SpaMaster]

That explains why he didn't try an overtake. 

 

That said, my memory is he himself said later in interview that he thought he was racing for third, not Perez as Exb says.

 

[Exb]

OK, lets see if I can get this link to work (from F1PitRadio on facebook)password is coldcolddrink (its the final radio transmission at 20.30)

Edited by Exb, 26 September 2013 - 19:34.

[thechin]

I didn't like when Brundle said Alonso is rubbish in qualifying. Not the best for sure, but rubbish?

Brundle has changed over the years from an engaging, informative commentator to an arrogant, lazy, cliche-ridden excuse of a pundit. The longer it has been since he was actually a driver, the better he seems to think he was. 

 

He has a massive hatred of Alonso in particular and you very often see it come out. Such as this rubbish qualifying comment, plus he made a point of saying how amusing it was that massa qualified in front.

 

I think he must have been denied an interview or something at some point. 

[Racer3]

I have listened to the radio feed and I'm not sure he does say "racing Perez" (nor does it make sense) - I think he says he thought he was racing for third. (which is why his engineer then asks if he couldn't see his pit board as his position would have been on that).

 

"Racing for third" is also confirmed by the following lines in Adam Cooper's blog:

 

“I was really surprised at the end, I didn’t know what position I was in,” he said. “I thought I was third. When I came across the line I thought that was some good points, but then they told me and I was seriously gutted. It was a tough race and I’m absolutely shattered.”

Lewis admitted that he found it hard to understand how the strategy unfolded.

http://adamcooperf1.com

 

That's some serious communication problems at Merc...

[Deluxx]

Was anyone else completely bored by this race? I love the Singapore track but.... meh

[Exb]

Either I'm remembering the race incorrectly or this autosport article (on Red Bull dominance) is incorrect

WHY VETTEL'S PACE LOOKED SO GOOD
By Jonathan Noble
But while some fear that such a gap to the Red Bull has been there all season – and was only exposed in Singapore because Vettel was unleashed to build up a big lead – other factors did make his speed look more impressive.
After the safety car, Vettel was on brand new medium tyres while the cars right behind him that had not stopped were all on well-used super softs that they had started the race on.

I thought all cars had stopped by the time the safety car came out? The cars directly behind Vettel were on older tyres than him as they had stopped a few laps earlier and the ones that pitted under the safety car would have been on newer tyres? Surely no-one would have been on old supersofts.

[Myrvold]

That's some serious communication problems at Merc...

"Guess you can't see your pitboard then".

Ouch!

[scheivlak]

Either I'm remembering the race incorrectly or this autosport article (on Red Bull dominance) is incorrect

WHY VETTEL'S PACE LOOKED SO GOOD
By Jonathan Noble
But while some fear that such a gap to the Red Bull has been there all season – and was only exposed in Singapore because Vettel was unleashed to build up a big lead – other factors did make his speed look more impressive.
After the safety car, Vettel was on brand new medium tyres while the cars right behind him that had not stopped were all on well-used super softs that they had started the race on.

I thought all cars had stopped by the time the safety car came out? The cars directly behind Vettel were on older tyres than him as they had stopped a few laps earlier and the ones that pitted under the safety car would have been on newer tyres? Surely no-one would have been on old supersofts.

You're right and this time Jonathan got it all wrong.

 

SC came out on lap 25. By then, Vettel was on 8 lap old tyres (not brand new!), he had pitted on lap 17.

All those directly behind him were also on the medium tyre, they had pitted on lap 14/15.

Edited by scheivlak, 27 September 2013 - 14:35.

[swerved]

"Guess you can't see your pitboard then".

Ouch!

 

Ouch indeed, according to F1Fanatic Lewis had the most pit radio conversations i think.