743 replies to this topic

[LewDaMan]

What does this snippet suggest ? 

 

 

That certainly seems to suggest you were describing them as hip. Saying that you didn't is just being highly disingenuous. 

 

Red Bull is clearly the subject in that sentence. Equally as clearly, that sentence does not refer to any driver as hip.

 

Moreover, the following sentence, which you've omitted...

 

"That alone would have made them (the subject, Red Bull) tremendously popular in allowing the fans to see either Vettel v Hamilton or Vettel v Alonso."

 

makes that even clearer.

[Nonesuch]

Why does he attract a fanbase who is so intolerant to those who don't share their views?

 

I don't think it has anything to do with Vettel. In my experience the more zealous and 'intolerant' fans tend to be among the younger portions of the audience. Today these fans like Vettel because Vettel has been winning races seemingly every other Grand Prix since 2009, and that is probably the time they started watching. The same was true when Hamilton brought in a lot of new fans in 2007 and 2008, when Alonso brought in a whole host of Spanish fans in 2005 and 2006, and most definitely when Schumacher was dominating F1 in the 2001-2002 period. Comparing the discussions about Hamilton today to those of 2007 and 2008, I'd say the tone is quite different. I'm sure the same will be true for Vettel in five years time.

[Tsarwash]

The full quote is,

Indeed.

 

Red Bull could have secured a positive and hip, young image by employing either Hamilton or Alonso who have both thrown themselves at the team in recent years. That alone would have made them tremendously popular in allowing the fans to see either Vettel v Hamilton or Vettel v Alonso.

 

Which clearly suggests that you think red Bull could get a hipper image had they employed Ham or Fred. It is not unreasonable to take from this that you were describing both the drivers themselves as having a positive and hip image. In fact it would be the most obvious conclusion to take. 

 

Anyhow this thread is far away from the original topic, has run it's course, and has now just turned into Hamilton and Vettel bashing. I'm leaving with some dignity before it gets closed down. 

[Raven8]

that's funny you are the first german I hear complaining about swearing on podium particulary since it was in english: ****ed it up .... no other german I talked to really cared about that, it only really seemed to be a problem for english speakers so far... and thats not cause Vettel said it.... I mean nobody gives a **** if anybody talks like that really...

 

And yeah I think Seb is a great guy... if my kid aspires to be like him or acts like him I would be proud cause I would not have done anything wrong... but yeah guess everyone needs to decide that for themselves...

 

what I would find worse would be if he would bully people like those people who are booing him are... they are nothing but bullys

The kids nowadys know english swearing words, f++ is quite well known. I don't like my kids swearing,I give a sh+t therfore,  maybe we have different standarts.

I'm not a fan of Vettel but If my son likes him, I let him. But if we talk about manners in F1 ( booing etc) the drivers also have to look at themselves what they do & say publicly

[LewDaMan]

The full quote is,

Which clearly suggests that you think red Bull could get a hipper image had they employed Ham or Fred. It is not unreasonable to take from this that you were describing both the drivers themselves as having a positive and hip image. In fact it would be the most obvious conclusion to take. 

 

Anyhow this thread is far away from the original topic, has run it's course, and has now just turned into Hamilton and Vettel bashing. I'm leaving with some dignity before it gets closed down. 

It's the wrong conclusion you made. I was only talking about Red Bull and if they had employed Hamilton or Alonso Red Bull would have seemed hip because they would have given us, the F1 fans, one of the teammate battles we all want to see.

 

And I don't see how this thread has turned into "bashing" of any driver.

[sv401]

I think booing is okay. If you are unhappy who won, why not show it?

 

So, what is wrong with showing if you are unhappy with the booing, then ?

[sv401]

 

But if I were to boo, it would be because Vettel wins while not being the best driver.

 

So, why do you think Red Bull keep employing him if they do not think he is at least equal-ish best ? If there are clearly better drivers on the grid, why not just sack Vettel (which alone would make the team look like heroes to many), and even get a faster package with the new driver ? Someone must be stupid here, either Red Bull management, or the crowd that believes that the team deliberately handicaps itself by employing an inferior and even extremely unpopular driver.

[sv401]

It makes me wonder if either Red Bull as a team will pull out completely, or re-brand, so as to limit the negativity

 

In my opinion, F1 would pretty much lose all credibility (assuming it still has any) as a sport if a competitor gets bullied out for doing a too good job.

[Rich]

So, what is wrong with showing if you are unhappy with the booing, then ?

 

Heh, it's the timeless question that internet debaters can never answer. Example:

 

"All politicians are crooks."

"What a cliched statement."

"I was only stating my OPINION, you know. This isn't North Korea. We have this thing called "freedom of speech", maybe you hadn't heard? It means we can say what we feel. It's a free country, I was only stating my opinion!"

"So was I."

[/argument]

[sv401]

But I have to say that I don't understand this diversionary "whataboutery" mindset. The existence of another bad comment or act, doesn't cancel out a separate bad comment or act.

 

It makes you look like a hypocrite, though.

[Zoetrope]

So, why do you think Red Bull keep employing him if they do not think he is at least equal-ish best ? 

This thread is not about discussing who is the best driver, I just wanted to give my 2 cents what could be the reasoning behind the booing.

[LewDaMan]

It makes you look like a hypocrite, though.

 

What makes me look like a hypocrite?

[gluon]

So, why do you think Red Bull keep employing him if they do not think he is at least equal-ish best ? If there are clearly better drivers on the grid, why not just sack Vettel (which alone would make the team look like heroes to many), and even get a faster package with the new driver ? Someone must be stupid here, either Red Bull management, or the crowd that believes that the team deliberately handicaps itself by employing an inferior and even extremely unpopular driver.

So why Vettel's salary is only approximately half the salary of Alonso and Hamilton?

[Sin]

So why Vettel's salary is only approximately half the salary of Alonso and Hamilton?

 

cause Alonso & Hamilton have a managers and Seb makes his deals himself and maybe Seb is satisfied with the money he gets

Edited by Sin, 24 September 2013 - 19:48.

[abc]

Of course it reflects negatively on Vettel. Why does he attract a fanbase who is so intolerant to those who don't share their views?

 

And 32 isn't young!?!

Jesus,

 

this is unbelievable level of irony. This whole thread is about bunch of intolerant mob booing during every ceremony, fueled by really lunatic intolerance by many Hamilton fans in this very thread, who would boo SV forever, because he had audacity to post fastest lap of race and you manage to turn it into Vettel fans lacking tolerance.

 

Whats wrong with this world?

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by abc, 24 September 2013 - 21:17.

[abc]

You can't or won't?

 

The swimming pool comment was an inherently disrespectful and arrogant one as it clearly infers that other teams don't work as hard as Red Bull.

 

 

What bothers me zillion times more though is constant crying about own car, disrespecting own engineers and drivers in other teams (in this case Vettel) at the same time like LH again managed this week in very explanatory and paternal way.

[gluon]

cause Alonso & Hamilton have a managers and Seb makes his deals himself and maybe Seb is satisfied with the money he gets

Or maybe Red Bull knows better than us exactly how much he's worth.

[Sin]

Or maybe Red Bull knows better than us exactly how much he's worth.

 

and maybe life is just a computer simulation... or maybe the world will end tomorrow...

 

you got any proof that Sebastian is a worse driver?  Other drivers say he is doing a great job, Prost recently said Seb is better than he was, I think Lauda said something in that direction as well..

Edited by Sin, 24 September 2013 - 20:42.

[dau]

So why Vettel's salary is only approximately half the salary of Alonso and Hamilton?

Maybe for the same reason Ralf Schumacher was paid almost three times as much as Alonso in 2005 and 2006?

 

It has often been reported Vettel gets a relatively low base salary with substantial bonuses. And we'll never know whether those numbers are correct anyway. I certainly wouldn't try to base an argument on those.

[LewDaMan]

Jesus,

 

this is unbelievable level of irony. This whole thread is about bunch of intolerant mob who is on crusade against Vettel, fueled by really lunatic intolerance by many Hamilton fans in this very thread, who would boo SV forever, because he had audacity to post fastest lap of race and you manage to turn it into Vettel fans lacking tolerance.

 

Whats wrong with this world?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ahhhh, there we go, reverting to type and proving my point yet again about too much of his internet fanbase.

 

As I've said multiple times now, I accept that many people like Vettel as a person and rate him as a future "legend" of F1.

 

I don't like Vettel as a person. As I driver I think he is overrated and flattered by the design genius of Adrian Newey. Do you accept that I, and many others, feel this way about Vettel?

[LewDaMan]

What bothers me zillion times more though is constant crying about own car, disrespecting own engineers and drivers in other teams (in this case Vettel) at the same time like LH again managed this week in very explanatory and paternal way.

 

Oh what "sour grapes." You're just a "hater." Is your "crusade" and "lunatic intolerance" towards Hamilton because he is English?

Edited by LewDaMan, 24 September 2013 - 20:48.

[Sin]

Ahhhh, there we go, reverting to type and proving my point yet again about too much of his internet fanbase.

 

As I've said multiple times now, I accept that many people like Vettel as a person and rate him as a future "legend" of F1.

 

I don't like Vettel as a person. As I driver I think he is overrated and flattered by the design genius of Adrian Newey. Do you accept that I, and many others, feel this way about Vettel?

 

well didn't he basically say the same thing you said just to the other side? so maybe you two are more similar than you think

Edited by Sin, 24 September 2013 - 20:47.

[LewDaMan]

well didn't he basically say the same thing you said just to the other side? so maybe you two are more similar than you think

 

I'm not the one labelling and insulting people.

 

If abc dislikes Hamilton that is...wait for it...up to him. He is free to dislike Hamilton as much as he likes without needing to fear insults or people telling him he is "wrong" in having  reasons for disliking Hamilton.

 

The frightening thing is some of you don't even see your own inherent intolerance.

[abc]

Ahhhh, there we go, reverting to type and proving my point yet again about too much of his internet fanbase.

 

As I've said multiple times now, I accept that many people like Vettel as a person and rate him as a future "legend" of F1.

 

I don't like Vettel as a person. As I driver I think he is overrated and flattered by the design genius of Adrian Newey. Do you accept that I, and many others, feel this way about Vettel?

OH I accept that fully. And I rate Hamilton as a driver AND as a personality.

 

Do you accept that your posts present ultimate level of irony as this thread is all about hating on one side and protecting on other side of certain driver while you blubber about intolerance of SVs fans towards other drivers?

[abc]

Oh what "sour grapes." You're just a "hater." Is your "crusade" and "lunatic intolerance" towards Hamilton because he is English?

Nope, I like Hamilton, I just dont like your reasoning at all. And I have no idea where you are from.

Edited by abc, 24 September 2013 - 20:59.

[LewDaMan]

OH I accept that fully. And I rate Hamilton as a driver AND as a personality.

 

Do you accept that your posts present ultimate level of irony as this thread is all about hating on one side and protecting on other side of certain driver while you blubber about intolerance of SVs fans towards other drivers?

 

Oh for goodness sake, it's the language of teenagers.

 

And which driver(s) have I protected in this thread?

 

I've lost count of the amount of strawman arguments and phantom claims those defending Vettel have made on this thread.

[LewDaMan]

Nope, I like Hamilton, I just dont like your posts, not at all. And I have no idea where you are from.

What relevance does whether you like me or my posts have!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!? Boo me if you want!

 

And what relevance does where I am from have!?!?

 

Honestly!

[abc]

What relevance does whether you like me or my posts have!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!? Boo me if you want!

 

And what relevance does where I am from have!?!?

 

Honestly!

You asked me if I hate Hamilton because he is british

 

sorry that my third language is not up to your grown up level

 

this thread

Edited by abc, 24 September 2013 - 21:06.

[LewDaMan]

You asked me if I hate Hamilton because he is british

 

this thread

So what does MY nationality have to do with that!?!!!?

[zachary2142]

Mods, can we close this thread? It has degenerated from discussing Vettel being booed (already IN MY OPINION an insignificant topic) to the usual - badmouthing other posters for their opinions (and I accept I had a part in it) and general driver bashing.

Besides, nothing constructive was said nor will be achieved.

Edited by zachary2142, 24 September 2013 - 21:09.

[sennafan24]

 disrespecting own engineers and drivers in other teams (in this case Vettel)

Sometimes I really have to take a deep breath when reading on F1 forums.

 

Read the ******* article, context!

Edited by sennafan24, 24 September 2013 - 21:09.

[sennafan24]

Mods, can we close this thread? It has degenerated from discussing Vettel being booed (already IN MY OPINION an insignificant topic) to the usual - badmouthing other posters for their opinions (and I accept I had a part in it) and general driver bashing.

This guy has the right idea.

[apoka]

Maybe for the same reason Ralf Schumacher was paid almost three times as much as Alonso in 2005 and 2006?

 

It has often been reported Vettel gets a relatively low base salary with substantial bonuses. And we'll never know whether those numbers are correct anyway. I certainly wouldn't try to base an argument on those.

 

+ RB is the best team at the moment, so they are very attractive even without the highest salary

[Raven8]

No titles, no wins, no money can buy love from the crowd. As long as Vettel appears as spoilt brat It won't change

[Ferrari2183]

I don't understand why some of his fans even care that he's being booed.

He's winning championships for Christ's sake. 4 in a row! Who cares what other people think about him? You won't convince the entire planet to like him anyway.

They want acceptance. But it's not going to happen when he is driving a car that is eons ahead of the rest.

[Atreiu]

The spoiled brat is a product of people imaginations and Helmut Marko's awkward and backfiring remarks. He still has to go through the easier said than done tasks of helping the team develop their cars, racing and winning.

 

Of course it is conveniently ignored by his detractors. It would better suit them to think his trophies are simply sent by mail so he can pick them up.

Edited by Atreiu, 24 September 2013 - 21:46.

[Sin]

They want acceptance. But it's not going to happen when he is driving a car that is eons ahead of the rest.

 

no it is something called compassion and empathy and the fact that it is a very disrespectful behaviour... psychological terror...

[ThomFi]

+ RB is the best team at the moment, so they are very attractive even without the highest salary

 

Red Bull also invested in his career and supported his way into F1. There was no need to lure him with a big pile of money to drive for their  "crap" team.

Edited by ThomFi, 24 September 2013 - 21:56.

[Raven8]

no it is something called compassion and empathy and the fact that it is a very disrespectful behaviour... psychological terror...

Your a exaggerating immensely. Pschological terror? A few people boing? Maybe they should call for the UNO to intervene

[toroRosso]

If you don't understand this sport, which some people don't, you will not rate Vettel high. He isn't there to appease your sense of 'cool, nice' guy to begin with. And that is where the stupidity begins. This sport is not a reality show or soap opera.

 

Anyway if I hear more booing, I'll be posting a whole a lot more in here. Time to put the pressure on the booers themselves.

[trogggy]

 

Anyway if I hear more booing, I'll be posting a whole a lot more in here. Time to put the pressure on the booers themselves.

 

Yeah, that'll work.  Great idea.

[Sin]

Your a exaggerating immensely. Pschological terror? A few people boing? Maybe they should call for the UNO to intervene

 

Am I? That depends really it is terrorizing other people... it is bullying... maybe you need to have been bullied in school to understand that but it absolutely not an acceptable behaviour....

that's what I mean who cares if anyone says bad words if they don't hurt anybody.... but you should never ever accept anybody treating anybody else like ****

[trogggy]

Am I? That depends really it is terrorizing other people... it is bullying... maybe you need to have been bullied in school to understand that but it absolutely not an acceptable behaviour....

that's what I mean who cares if anyone says bad words if they don't hurt anybody.... but you should never ever accept anybody treating anybody else like ****

Whether it's acceptable behaviour or not is opinion, not fact.  There's a spectrum  which goes from 'Get a grip, it's just a bit of booing' to 'OMG it's disgusting.'

 

Unrelated point:

If drivers think it's okay to say '****' across the world in a podium interview it's not such a solemn occasion in their eyes, obviously.

Edited by trogggy, 24 September 2013 - 22:13.

[MightyMoose]

Well I think everyone has exhausted their arguments here, it seems we're very much on a circular trip and when it gets to almost a page of posters discussing each other, it's more than enough.

 

Thread Closed.