Jump to content


Photo
* * * * * 1 votes

How do you view the Alonso/Webber penalty?


  • Please log in to reply
54 replies to this topic

Poll: Were the reprimands fair? (182 member(s) have cast votes)

Having watched the onboard clip, do you consider the reprimands given to Web and Alo fair?

  1. Yes, Alonso and Webber were rightfully reprimanded (93 votes [51.10%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 51.10%

  2. No, neither should have been reprimanded (73 votes [40.11%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 40.11%

  3. Only Alonso should have been reprimanded for stopping on track (6 votes [3.30%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 3.30%

  4. Only Webber should have been reprimanded for trying to hitch a lift (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

  5. One/both drivers should have been handed a harsher penalty (elaborate please) (10 votes [5.49%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 5.49%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#1 Crossmax

Crossmax
  • Member

  • 985 posts
  • Joined: April 11

Posted 22 September 2013 - 18:32

Important, please watch the incident before voting. Please disregard the fact that this happened to be Webber's third reprimand (rendering him a 10 place grid penalty for Korea) and vote as if he had no previous reprimands.


Edited by Crossmax, 22 September 2013 - 20:14.


Advertisement

#2 SpartanChas

SpartanChas
  • Member

  • 750 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 22 September 2013 - 18:33

They shouldn't have done it there, no way.

I like to see stuff like this but it is a bit stupid of them. They know what the rules are.

#3 P123

P123
  • Member

  • 8,414 posts
  • Joined: February 09

Posted 22 September 2013 - 18:37

It was a crazy place to stop- different if it were off track out of the way of other cars.  Perhaps FA lucky to escape with only a reprimand on that.



#4 Diablobb81

Diablobb81
  • Member

  • 3,526 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 22 September 2013 - 18:38

Sadly, it was a deserved penalty.



#5 Lelouch

Lelouch
  • Member

  • 608 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 22 September 2013 - 18:40

Sadly, it was a deserved penalty.

Indeed.



#6 g1n

g1n
  • Member

  • 874 posts
  • Joined: February 11

Posted 22 September 2013 - 18:40

There is always a reprimand or small fine for this. Webber got the penalty not for this, but for accumulating 3 reprimands.



#7 BenettonB192

BenettonB192
  • Member

  • 851 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 22 September 2013 - 18:41

A penalty was deserved because the rules are very clear about that afaik. But i think it's silly that something like that can have consequences on sporting results. A money fine would be adequate.



#8 Skinnyguy

Skinnyguy
  • Member

  • 4,360 posts
  • Joined: August 10

Posted 22 September 2013 - 18:41

After watching the GP2 race inlap after the race, I think this kind of stuff is just taking extra danger for no reason. Imagine if something like that happens with a guy hanging from a car.



#9 George Costanza

George Costanza
  • Member

  • 2,374 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 22 September 2013 - 18:42

Silly. Very silly.



#10 spacekid

spacekid
  • Member

  • 2,678 posts
  • Joined: April 11

Posted 22 September 2013 - 18:42

Yup, having seen the video penalty well deserved.

 

I like to see this sort of thing if done properly, but where Alonso stopped it looked very dangerous. The consequences of Hamilton going into the back of him... would not have been good.



#11 30ft penguin

30ft penguin
  • Member

  • 2,423 posts
  • Joined: January 01

Posted 22 September 2013 - 18:44

Usually, I'd say "no way you should get a penalty for giving some stranded driver a ride after the race is finished", but this was definitely a dangerous place to do it. Looked like there was a very real chance of someone crashing into his car, because it was at a spot where other drivers could not see him standing before entering that corner. Sadly, deserved penalty in this particular situation. Would have been different in the middle of a long straight.



#12 Burtros

Burtros
  • Member

  • 1,017 posts
  • Joined: July 11

Posted 22 September 2013 - 18:44

Thread is flawed as it presents that Webber got the penalty for this in isolation which isn't correct. Today only counts for 1/3rd of the reason for the penalty, so discussing it like its the whole reason is incorrect.

 

It explains why Webber has a penalty and Alonso doesn't I assume.

 

I don't personally think it warrants a 10 place penalty on its own, sick of seeing everyone cry for punishments for everything that happens outside the rules outside of the race. Slap them on the wrist and fine them for this sort of thing by all means though.


Edited by Burtros, 22 September 2013 - 18:49.


#13 Slackbladder

Slackbladder
  • Member

  • 1,171 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 22 September 2013 - 18:48

Yep, dangerous. Also the speeds which Alonso was getting at about 60 miles an hour... Webber could have easily fallen.



#14 spacekid

spacekid
  • Member

  • 2,678 posts
  • Joined: April 11

Posted 22 September 2013 - 18:50

Thread is flawed as it presents that Webber got the penalty for this in isolation which isn't correct. Today only counts for 1/3rd of the reason for the penalty, so discussing it like its the whole reason is incorrect.

 

It explains why Webber has a penalty and Alonso doesn't I assume.

 

I don't personally think it warrants a 10 place penalty on its own, sick of seeing everyone cry for punishments for everything that happens outside the rules outside of the race. Slap them on the wrist and fine them for this sort of thing by all means though.

 

Good point. Deserved reprimand for both, but definately agree that the 10 place penalty is not for this in isolation and is worth bearing in mind.



#15 Artkab2013

Artkab2013
  • Member

  • 233 posts
  • Joined: September 13

Posted 22 September 2013 - 18:55

Jeez. Is it beeber formula or what?



#16 Crossmax

Crossmax
  • Member

  • 985 posts
  • Joined: April 11

Posted 22 September 2013 - 18:56

Thread is flawed as it presents that Webber got the penalty for this in isolation which isn't correct. Today only counts for 1/3rd of the reason for the penalty, so discussing it like its the whole reason is incorrect.

 

It explains why Webber has a penalty and Alonso doesn't I assume.

 

I don't personally think it warrants a 10 place penalty on its own, sick of seeing everyone cry for punishments for everything that happens outside the rules outside of the race. Slap them on the wrist and fine them for this sort of thing by all means though.

If you read the poll options carefully, you will see that "reprimand" is what it is asking for, not "10-place grid penalty". In fact, nowhere in the poll option is there a mention of the grid penalty that the reprimand brought with it.



#17 Coops3

Coops3
  • Member

  • 1,582 posts
  • Joined: March 11

Posted 22 September 2013 - 19:00

Had no idea they were going so fast... pushing 65 mph there!



#18 Xpat

Xpat
  • Member

  • 4,016 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 22 September 2013 - 19:01

If he'd worn a hi-viz vest it would have been ok.



#19 dau

dau
  • Member

  • 4,569 posts
  • Joined: March 09

Posted 22 September 2013 - 19:05

After watching the GP2 race inlap after the race, I think this kind of stuff is just taking extra danger for no reason. Imagine if something like that happens with a guy hanging from a car.

Just for those who don't watch GP2:

 

 

The reprimands were absolutely justified. Sucks for Webber of course that it happened to be his third.


Edited by dau, 22 September 2013 - 19:07.


Advertisement

#20 RockyRaccoon68

RockyRaccoon68
  • Member

  • 1,438 posts
  • Joined: June 10

Posted 22 September 2013 - 19:23

Fair enough reprimand, it's really dangerous.  What if Webber had fallen off, got trapped under Alonso's car or Alonso had been hit by another driver.  Alonso also stopped in a dangerous place and Webber ran across the track in a dangerous manner.  It's a series of little slip ups like this lining up that cause disasters.  The FIA is right to clamp down on it.



#21 falalalalaland

falalalalaland
  • Member

  • 91 posts
  • Joined: November 12

Posted 22 September 2013 - 19:30

Watch the vid and the CCTV picture from the other thread. Really bad place to stop the car/hitch a ride. :down: Mark could have been ran over by Lewis. Nando should have let Kimi pass then pulled over to the right side where Mark was.



#22 icecream_man

icecream_man
  • Member

  • 1,031 posts
  • Joined: June 09

Posted 22 September 2013 - 19:30

It was an idiotic place for Alonso to stop, and that was entirely his fault not Webber's, deserved a reprimand, but to hand Webber a 10 place grid penalty for it in my view is just plain idiotic, wouldn't blame the guy if he gave F1 the single fingered salute and quit now....



#23 ThomFi

ThomFi
  • Member

  • 629 posts
  • Joined: February 09

Posted 22 September 2013 - 19:33

Watch the vid and the CCTV picture from the other thread. Really bad place to stop the car/hitch a ride. :down: Mark could have been ran over by Lewis. Nando should have let Kimi pass then pulled over to the right side where Mark was.

 

Well, love makes blind but they really should stop their fatal attraction thing, before someone gets really hurt.



#24 30ft penguin

30ft penguin
  • Member

  • 2,423 posts
  • Joined: January 01

Posted 22 September 2013 - 19:40

It was an idiotic place for Alonso to stop, and that was entirely his fault not Webber's, deserved a reprimand, but to hand Webber a 10 place grid penalty for it in my view is just plain idiotic, wouldn't blame the guy if he gave F1 the single fingered salute and quit now....

 

Like others posted, both Alonso and Webber received the same punishment, a reprimand. It just so happened that Webber had already racked up two other reprimands, and three reprimands=grid penalty.



#25 Spillage

Spillage
  • Member

  • 928 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 22 September 2013 - 19:55

Fair enough reprimand, it's really dangerous.  What if Webber had fallen off, got trapped under Alonso's car or Alonso had been hit by another driver.  Alonso also stopped in a dangerous place and Webber ran across the track in a dangerous manner.  It's a series of little slip ups like this lining up that cause disasters.  The FIA is right to clamp down on it.

Agree with this. Had Webber fallen from Alonso's car, he would not have to have been travelling at all quickly to suffer really serious injury.



#26 Nonesuch

Nonesuch
  • Member

  • 2,183 posts
  • Joined: October 08

Posted 22 September 2013 - 19:59

Alonso's parking spot was dodgy, and I have some sympathy for wanting to at least talk about that with him. However, I think reprimanding both him and Webber was a little strict - and after such a race as we saw, I for one welcomed this bit of entertainment.



#27 DutchQuicksilver

DutchQuicksilver
  • Member

  • 1,920 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 22 September 2013 - 20:03

You think they would have penalized Senna and Mansell now as well?

 

I think with this, F1 is going to far with all this penalizsing. I thought it was a cool view with Webber on Alonso's car. A friendly gesture between two close friends.



#28 Crossmax

Crossmax
  • Member

  • 985 posts
  • Joined: April 11

Posted 22 September 2013 - 20:08

You think they would have penalized Senna and Mansell now as well?
 
I think with this, F1 is going to far with all this penalizsing. I thought it was a cool view with Webber on Alonso's car. A friendly gesture between two close friends.

Yeah, but the way Alonso stopped on the racing line just after an unsighted corner? The reprimands were not handed out for the lift, but for how it was executed.

#29 Burtros

Burtros
  • Member

  • 1,017 posts
  • Joined: July 11

Posted 22 September 2013 - 20:09

If you read the poll options carefully, you will see that "reprimand" is what it is asking for, not "10-place grid penalty". In fact, nowhere in the poll option is there a mention of the grid penalty that the reprimand brought with it.

 

Ok you have a fair point there, Ive voted now. I looked at the thread title and opening post and was mis-led enouigh.

 

For your part, I think if you can make some edits so its clearer that'd help. Clearly most people are also misreading it.


Edited by Burtros, 22 September 2013 - 20:09.


#30 Radion

Radion
  • Member

  • 828 posts
  • Joined: January 13

Posted 22 September 2013 - 20:27

Stupid, plain stupid...

 

http://www.blick.ch/...-id2450773.html



#31 study

study
  • Member

  • 2,452 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 22 September 2013 - 20:42

Thread is flawed as it presents that Webber got the penalty for this in isolation which isn't correct. Today only counts for 1/3rd of the reason for the penalty, so discussing it like its the whole reason is incorrect.

 

It explains why Webber has a penalty and Alonso doesn't I assume.

 

I don't personally think it warrants a 10 place penalty on its own, sick of seeing everyone cry for punishments for everything that happens outside the rules outside of the race. Slap them on the wrist and fine them for this sort of thing by all means though.

 

I think differently, I think it was so stupid and dangerous to Webber, Alonso and approaching drivers that they both should have had standalone penaltys

 

If it had gone differently, I think you'd be post differently, only by making the punishment harsh will they make drivers listern.

 

This was as bad as the argy bargy in the pitlane.



#32 study

study
  • Member

  • 2,452 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 22 September 2013 - 20:45

Just for those who don't watch GP2:

 

 

The reprimands were absolutely justified. Sucks for Webber of course that it happened to be his third.

 

Why did he just turn like that, was he trying to go down that passage off the track?



#33 study

study
  • Member

  • 2,452 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 22 September 2013 - 20:47

It was an idiotic place for Alonso to stop, and that was entirely his fault not Webber's, deserved a reprimand, but to hand Webber a 10 place grid penalty for it in my view is just plain idiotic, wouldn't blame the guy if he gave F1 the single fingered salute and quit now....

 

Webber should give F1 a single fingered salute when he was in the wrong???



#34 Racer3

Racer3
  • Member

  • 383 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 22 September 2013 - 21:00

I thought it was a cool view with Webber on Alonso's car. A friendly gesture between two close friends.

A nice view, I agree, but did you read Hamilton's comments?

 

Hamilton said he was surprised to have found the Ferrari stationary in the middle of the circuit, and was thankful that Webber was out of harm's way at that point.

"I was doing my in-lap, came around the corner and Fernando was there, and I was really shocked," said Hamilton.

"I went to the right of him, but if Mark had been walking across where I went then I would have run him over. Fortunately, that wasn't the case."

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/110088

 

Imagine the shock if something had happened...


Edited by Racer3, 22 September 2013 - 21:05.


#35 eladkse

eladkse
  • New Member

  • 8 posts
  • Joined: June 09

Posted 22 September 2013 - 21:08

Why did he just turn like that, was he trying to go down that passage off the track?

If you listen to the commentary, Will Buxton mentions that the passage leads to the GP2 paddock (which is in a different place to the main F1 pits). The marshals on the right side of the track were signalling for the cars to go in that entrance. Leimer carried on, as he had to go to the main pits for the podium.



#36 midgrid

midgrid
  • Member

  • 4,773 posts
  • Joined: April 09

Posted 22 September 2013 - 21:13

Initiallly I thought the reprimands were harsh, but after viewing the footage I changed my mind. I would be interested to know, however, if they would have received reprimands anyway had Alonso stopped somewhere that was not on the racing line.

#37 Paul084

Paul084
  • Member

  • 89 posts
  • Joined: August 12

Posted 22 September 2013 - 21:15

It sounds stupid to give a penalty but I agree with it in that if Webber fell off at 60mph it wouldn't look too good.



#38 sosidge

sosidge
  • Member

  • 1,656 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 22 September 2013 - 21:22

If Mark Webber fell off at 60mph that would be his own stupid fault - not that it was going to happen anyway.

 

The problem is the risk faced by other track users because of Webber encouraging someone to stop and Alonso stopping in the middle of the track on the exit of a blind bend. Deserved reprimands.



#39 Ashe

Ashe
  • Member

  • 132 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 22 September 2013 - 21:39

This is the CCTV footage with Webber - very lucky to get off with a reprimand:

 

http://www.blick.ch/...-id2450773.html



Advertisement

#40 Paul084

Paul084
  • Member

  • 89 posts
  • Joined: August 12

Posted 22 September 2013 - 21:42

If Mark Webber fell off at 60mph that would be his own stupid fault - not that it was going to happen anyway.

 

Fair enough point and I agree with it but I don't think it would reflect well on the F.I.A if he was to fall off. I think it's to do with health and safety to a certain extent.


Edited by Paul084, 22 September 2013 - 21:44.


#41 Nitropower

Nitropower
  • Member

  • 1,178 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 22 September 2013 - 21:44

I voted no reprimand but I changed my mind. It's ok a reprimand for both and if it's Webber's third one, he needs to get his act together and accept a 10 place grid penalty is the consequence. It's a pity. Anyway I do not agree with a reprimand for doing this but for doing it where they did.


Edited by Nitropower, 22 September 2013 - 21:44.


#42 v@sh

v@sh
  • Member

  • 730 posts
  • Joined: September 03

Posted 22 September 2013 - 21:47

Warranted IMO, Alonso stopped in a stupid place and Webber walked on the track in a dangerous manner both to himself and the other drivers. Alonso should have stopped on the side of the track not in the middle of a corner. Still would like drivers giving lifts back.



#43 Juan Kerr

Juan Kerr
  • Member

  • 2,632 posts
  • Joined: October 05

Posted 22 September 2013 - 21:54

107km/h Alonso took Webber up to (68mph) whoops!


Edited by Juan Kerr, 22 September 2013 - 21:55.


#44 Briz

Briz
  • Member

  • 342 posts
  • Joined: March 13

Posted 22 September 2013 - 21:57

Still a better love story than Twilight



#45 MikeV1987

MikeV1987
  • Member

  • 1,505 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 22 September 2013 - 22:17

Not the smartest place to come to a stop, but I still really like when they do this. I can see where the stewards were coming from with this penalty, but imo I think both should have been given a warning at the most.

 

edit:

 

I forgot about Webber's 2 other reprimands.


Edited by MikeV1987, 22 September 2013 - 22:24.


#46 froggy22

froggy22
  • Member

  • 799 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 22 September 2013 - 22:19

I had heard that Rosberg was near by and hadn't seen the CCTV footage until now. The CCTV footage justifies the punishments for me, Rosberg comes quite close to Webber, a lot closer than I thought.



#47 Vepe1995

Vepe1995
  • Member

  • 107 posts
  • Joined: November 11

Posted 22 September 2013 - 22:22

Not the smartest place to come to a stop, but I still really like when they do this. I can see where the stewards were coming from with this penalty, but imo I think both should have been given a warning at the most.

 

Isn't a reprimand basically a warning?



#48 redreni

redreni
  • Member

  • 2,603 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 22 September 2013 - 22:47

The moment somebody gets knocked down by an F1 car travelling at speed on live TV, there would be uproar and all the fingers would be pointing at the FIA. It's not fair in those circumstances to criticise the stewards for enforcing the regulations. They've chosen the most lenient penalty in the book - a reprimand - so you can't really say they're being overzealous. Rosberg only narrowly missed Alonso's car, and if those two had collided Webber could've easily been killed. For a driver that likes to whinge about safety, running out onto the track at the exit of a blind bend is pretty dumb.

 

If Red Bull are unhappy with the penalty, which I understand they are, they could avoid it by bringing forward the Ricciardo deal and letting Webber drive for STR in Korea. I don't know what they think they're gaining by sticking with Webber for the remaining flyaways - they can't really lose the WCC from the position they're in now, they have everything to gain from giving Ricciardo the experience of running at the front, and in Webber they have a driver who appears to be struggling for 1-lap performance and freely admits that he struggles to motivate himself these days.



#49 Ross Stonefeld

Ross Stonefeld
  • Member

  • 57,376 posts
  • Joined: August 99

Posted 22 September 2013 - 22:52

I don't think it's a smart idea no matter where they stop. The car is still doing 60mph. Would you want to fall out of a moving car on the highway, even with a helmet on? 

 

Though where/how Alonso stopped and Webber running out compounds the issue so you really can't ignore it. 

 

And Webber should know he was on his second strike and not to break any procedural rules. We all know you're not supposed to ride back on another car.



#50 Jejking

Jejking
  • Member

  • 2,424 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 22 September 2013 - 23:12

It is @Vepe. Reprimands totally justified. After seeing the video, i thought that. With the best drivers in the world things won't get out of hand too easily but it's still a risk and you wouldn't want to take that with such a large audience. Alonso stopped in quite a bad spot actually, and Webber wasn't thinking straight.