54 replies to this topic

[Crossmax]

Important, please watch the incident before voting. Please disregard the fact that this happened to be Webber's third reprimand (rendering him a 10 place grid penalty for Korea) and vote as if he had no previous reprimands.

Edited by Crossmax, 22 September 2013 - 20:14.

[SpartanChas]

They shouldn't have done it there, no way.

I like to see stuff like this but it is a bit stupid of them. They know what the rules are.

[P123]

It was a crazy place to stop- different if it were off track out of the way of other cars.  Perhaps FA lucky to escape with only a reprimand on that.

[Diablobb81]

Sadly, it was a deserved penalty.

[Lelouch]

Sadly, it was a deserved penalty.

Indeed.

[g1n]

There is always a reprimand or small fine for this. Webber got the penalty not for this, but for accumulating 3 reprimands.

[BenettonB192]

A penalty was deserved because the rules are very clear about that afaik. But i think it's silly that something like that can have consequences on sporting results. A money fine would be adequate.

[Skinnyguy]

After watching the GP2 race inlap after the race, I think this kind of stuff is just taking extra danger for no reason. Imagine if something like that happens with a guy hanging from a car.

[George Costanza]

Silly. Very silly.

[spacekid]

Yup, having seen the video penalty well deserved.

 

I like to see this sort of thing if done properly, but where Alonso stopped it looked very dangerous. The consequences of Hamilton going into the back of him... would not have been good.

[30ft penguin]

Usually, I'd say "no way you should get a penalty for giving some stranded driver a ride after the race is finished", but this was definitely a dangerous place to do it. Looked like there was a very real chance of someone crashing into his car, because it was at a spot where other drivers could not see him standing before entering that corner. Sadly, deserved penalty in this particular situation. Would have been different in the middle of a long straight.

[Burtros]

Thread is flawed as it presents that Webber got the penalty for this in isolation which isn't correct. Today only counts for 1/3rd of the reason for the penalty, so discussing it like its the whole reason is incorrect.

 

It explains why Webber has a penalty and Alonso doesn't I assume.

 

I don't personally think it warrants a 10 place penalty on its own, sick of seeing everyone cry for punishments for everything that happens outside the rules outside of the race. Slap them on the wrist and fine them for this sort of thing by all means though.

Edited by Burtros, 22 September 2013 - 18:49.

[Slackbladder]

Yep, dangerous. Also the speeds which Alonso was getting at about 60 miles an hour... Webber could have easily fallen.

[spacekid]

Thread is flawed as it presents that Webber got the penalty for this in isolation which isn't correct. Today only counts for 1/3rd of the reason for the penalty, so discussing it like its the whole reason is incorrect.

 

It explains why Webber has a penalty and Alonso doesn't I assume.

 

I don't personally think it warrants a 10 place penalty on its own, sick of seeing everyone cry for punishments for everything that happens outside the rules outside of the race. Slap them on the wrist and fine them for this sort of thing by all means though.

 

Good point. Deserved reprimand for both, but definately agree that the 10 place penalty is not for this in isolation and is worth bearing in mind.

[Artkab2013]

Jeez. Is it beeber formula or what?

[Crossmax]

Thread is flawed as it presents that Webber got the penalty for this in isolation which isn't correct. Today only counts for 1/3rd of the reason for the penalty, so discussing it like its the whole reason is incorrect.

 

It explains why Webber has a penalty and Alonso doesn't I assume.

 

I don't personally think it warrants a 10 place penalty on its own, sick of seeing everyone cry for punishments for everything that happens outside the rules outside of the race. Slap them on the wrist and fine them for this sort of thing by all means though.

If you read the poll options carefully, you will see that "reprimand" is what it is asking for, not "10-place grid penalty". In fact, nowhere in the poll option is there a mention of the grid penalty that the reprimand brought with it.

[Coops3]

Had no idea they were going so fast... pushing 65 mph there!

[Xpat]

If he'd worn a hi-viz vest it would have been ok.

[dau]

After watching the GP2 race inlap after the race, I think this kind of stuff is just taking extra danger for no reason. Imagine if something like that happens with a guy hanging from a car.

Just for those who don't watch GP2:

 

 

The reprimands were absolutely justified. Sucks for Webber of course that it happened to be his third.

Edited by dau, 22 September 2013 - 19:07.

[RockyRaccoon68]

Fair enough reprimand, it's really dangerous.  What if Webber had fallen off, got trapped under Alonso's car or Alonso had been hit by another driver.  Alonso also stopped in a dangerous place and Webber ran across the track in a dangerous manner.  It's a series of little slip ups like this lining up that cause disasters.  The FIA is right to clamp down on it.

[falalalalaland]

Watch the vid and the CCTV picture from the other thread. Really bad place to stop the car/hitch a ride.  Mark could have been ran over by Lewis. Nando should have let Kimi pass then pulled over to the right side where Mark was.

[icecream_man]

It was an idiotic place for Alonso to stop, and that was entirely his fault not Webber's, deserved a reprimand, but to hand Webber a 10 place grid penalty for it in my view is just plain idiotic, wouldn't blame the guy if he gave F1 the single fingered salute and quit now....

[ThomFi]

Watch the vid and the CCTV picture from the other thread. Really bad place to stop the car/hitch a ride.  Mark could have been ran over by Lewis. Nando should have let Kimi pass then pulled over to the right side where Mark was.

 

Well, love makes blind but they really should stop their fatal attraction thing, before someone gets really hurt.

[30ft penguin]

It was an idiotic place for Alonso to stop, and that was entirely his fault not Webber's, deserved a reprimand, but to hand Webber a 10 place grid penalty for it in my view is just plain idiotic, wouldn't blame the guy if he gave F1 the single fingered salute and quit now....

 

Like others posted, both Alonso and Webber received the same punishment, a reprimand. It just so happened that Webber had already racked up two other reprimands, and three reprimands=grid penalty.

[Spillage]

Fair enough reprimand, it's really dangerous.  What if Webber had fallen off, got trapped under Alonso's car or Alonso had been hit by another driver.  Alonso also stopped in a dangerous place and Webber ran across the track in a dangerous manner.  It's a series of little slip ups like this lining up that cause disasters.  The FIA is right to clamp down on it.

Agree with this. Had Webber fallen from Alonso's car, he would not have to have been travelling at all quickly to suffer really serious injury.

[Nonesuch]

Alonso's parking spot was dodgy, and I have some sympathy for wanting to at least talk about that with him. However, I think reprimanding both him and Webber was a little strict - and after such a race as we saw, I for one welcomed this bit of entertainment.

[DutchQuicksilver]

You think they would have penalized Senna and Mansell now as well?

 

I think with this, F1 is going to far with all this penalizsing. I thought it was a cool view with Webber on Alonso's car. A friendly gesture between two close friends.

[Crossmax]

You think they would have penalized Senna and Mansell now as well?
 
I think with this, F1 is going to far with all this penalizsing. I thought it was a cool view with Webber on Alonso's car. A friendly gesture between two close friends.

Yeah, but the way Alonso stopped on the racing line just after an unsighted corner? The reprimands were not handed out for the lift, but for how it was executed.

[Burtros]

If you read the poll options carefully, you will see that "reprimand" is what it is asking for, not "10-place grid penalty". In fact, nowhere in the poll option is there a mention of the grid penalty that the reprimand brought with it.

 

Ok you have a fair point there, Ive voted now. I looked at the thread title and opening post and was mis-led enouigh.

 

For your part, I think if you can make some edits so its clearer that'd help. Clearly most people are also misreading it.

Edited by Burtros, 22 September 2013 - 20:09.

[Radion]

Stupid, plain stupid...

 

http://www.blick.ch/...-id2450773.html

[study]

Thread is flawed as it presents that Webber got the penalty for this in isolation which isn't correct. Today only counts for 1/3rd of the reason for the penalty, so discussing it like its the whole reason is incorrect.

 

It explains why Webber has a penalty and Alonso doesn't I assume.

 

I don't personally think it warrants a 10 place penalty on its own, sick of seeing everyone cry for punishments for everything that happens outside the rules outside of the race. Slap them on the wrist and fine them for this sort of thing by all means though.

 

I think differently, I think it was so stupid and dangerous to Webber, Alonso and approaching drivers that they both should have had standalone penaltys

 

If it had gone differently, I think you'd be post differently, only by making the punishment harsh will they make drivers listern.

 

This was as bad as the argy bargy in the pitlane.

[study]

Just for those who don't watch GP2:

 

 

The reprimands were absolutely justified. Sucks for Webber of course that it happened to be his third.

 

Why did he just turn like that, was he trying to go down that passage off the track?

[study]

It was an idiotic place for Alonso to stop, and that was entirely his fault not Webber's, deserved a reprimand, but to hand Webber a 10 place grid penalty for it in my view is just plain idiotic, wouldn't blame the guy if he gave F1 the single fingered salute and quit now....

 

Webber should give F1 a single fingered salute when he was in the wrong???

[Racer3]

I thought it was a cool view with Webber on Alonso's car. A friendly gesture between two close friends.

A nice view, I agree, but did you read Hamilton's comments?

 

Hamilton said he was surprised to have found the Ferrari stationary in the middle of the circuit, and was thankful that Webber was out of harm's way at that point.

"I was doing my in-lap, came around the corner and Fernando was there, and I was really shocked," said Hamilton.

"I went to the right of him, but if Mark had been walking across where I went then I would have run him over. Fortunately, that wasn't the case."

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/110088

 

Imagine the shock if something had happened...

Edited by Racer3, 22 September 2013 - 21:05.

[eladkse]

Why did he just turn like that, was he trying to go down that passage off the track?

If you listen to the commentary, Will Buxton mentions that the passage leads to the GP2 paddock (which is in a different place to the main F1 pits). The marshals on the right side of the track were signalling for the cars to go in that entrance. Leimer carried on, as he had to go to the main pits for the podium.

[midgrid]

Initiallly I thought the reprimands were harsh, but after viewing the footage I changed my mind. I would be interested to know, however, if they would have received reprimands anyway had Alonso stopped somewhere that was not on the racing line.

[Paul084]

It sounds stupid to give a penalty but I agree with it in that if Webber fell off at 60mph it wouldn't look too good.

[sosidge]

If Mark Webber fell off at 60mph that would be his own stupid fault - not that it was going to happen anyway.

 

The problem is the risk faced by other track users because of Webber encouraging someone to stop and Alonso stopping in the middle of the track on the exit of a blind bend. Deserved reprimands.

[Ashe]

This is the CCTV footage with Webber - very lucky to get off with a reprimand:

 

http://www.blick.ch/...-id2450773.html

[Paul084]

If Mark Webber fell off at 60mph that would be his own stupid fault - not that it was going to happen anyway.

 

Fair enough point and I agree with it but I don't think it would reflect well on the F.I.A if he was to fall off. I think it's to do with health and safety to a certain extent.

Edited by Paul084, 22 September 2013 - 21:44.

[Nitropower]

I voted no reprimand but I changed my mind. It's ok a reprimand for both and if it's Webber's third one, he needs to get his act together and accept a 10 place grid penalty is the consequence. It's a pity. Anyway I do not agree with a reprimand for doing this but for doing it where they did.

Edited by Nitropower, 22 September 2013 - 21:44.

[v@sh]

Warranted IMO, Alonso stopped in a stupid place and Webber walked on the track in a dangerous manner both to himself and the other drivers. Alonso should have stopped on the side of the track not in the middle of a corner. Still would like drivers giving lifts back.

[Juan Kerr]

107km/h Alonso took Webber up to (68mph) whoops!

Edited by Juan Kerr, 22 September 2013 - 21:55.

[Briz]

Still a better love story than Twilight

[MikeV1987]

Not the smartest place to come to a stop, but I still really like when they do this. I can see where the stewards were coming from with this penalty, but imo I think both should have been given a warning at the most.

 

edit:

 

I forgot about Webber's 2 other reprimands.

Edited by MikeV1987, 22 September 2013 - 22:24.

[froggy22]

I had heard that Rosberg was near by and hadn't seen the CCTV footage until now. The CCTV footage justifies the punishments for me, Rosberg comes quite close to Webber, a lot closer than I thought.

[Vepe1995]

Not the smartest place to come to a stop, but I still really like when they do this. I can see where the stewards were coming from with this penalty, but imo I think both should have been given a warning at the most.

 

Isn't a reprimand basically a warning?

[redreni]

The moment somebody gets knocked down by an F1 car travelling at speed on live TV, there would be uproar and all the fingers would be pointing at the FIA. It's not fair in those circumstances to criticise the stewards for enforcing the regulations. They've chosen the most lenient penalty in the book - a reprimand - so you can't really say they're being overzealous. Rosberg only narrowly missed Alonso's car, and if those two had collided Webber could've easily been killed. For a driver that likes to whinge about safety, running out onto the track at the exit of a blind bend is pretty dumb.

 

If Red Bull are unhappy with the penalty, which I understand they are, they could avoid it by bringing forward the Ricciardo deal and letting Webber drive for STR in Korea. I don't know what they think they're gaining by sticking with Webber for the remaining flyaways - they can't really lose the WCC from the position they're in now, they have everything to gain from giving Ricciardo the experience of running at the front, and in Webber they have a driver who appears to be struggling for 1-lap performance and freely admits that he struggles to motivate himself these days.

[Ross Stonefeld]

I don't think it's a smart idea no matter where they stop. The car is still doing 60mph. Would you want to fall out of a moving car on the highway, even with a helmet on? 

 

Though where/how Alonso stopped and Webber running out compounds the issue so you really can't ignore it. 

 

And Webber should know he was on his second strike and not to break any procedural rules. We all know you're not supposed to ride back on another car.

[Jejking]

It is @Vepe. Reprimands totally justified. After seeing the video, i thought that. With the best drivers in the world things won't get out of hand too easily but it's still a risk and you wouldn't want to take that with such a large audience. Alonso stopped in quite a bad spot actually, and Webber wasn't thinking straight.