Jump to content


Photo
* * - - - 10 votes

'I don't want to be that far ahead.' - Hamilton


  • Please log in to reply
240 replies to this topic

#101 Schuttelberg

Schuttelberg
  • Member

  • 263 posts
  • Joined: September 13

Posted 23 September 2013 - 23:18

Lol, chill dude.  You haven't explained anything.  Your opinion is struggling against the evidence.

 

You're the one who hasn't explained anything. Another poster has clearly highlighted what comes across as 'bitter' to a Vettel fan may be. Your posting the same quotes in bold and big sizes doesn't change it. Perhaps, you could actually try see our perspective before telling us we haven't explained anything because you've not explained peanuts either. It's quite classy to ask someone to suck your opinion up when you have little or no respect for someone else's. 



Advertisement

#102 Schuttelberg

Schuttelberg
  • Member

  • 263 posts
  • Joined: September 13

Posted 23 September 2013 - 23:19

Sorry, how will you know about Hamiltons relationship with McLaren?

all the pundits said Hamilton seeked the challenge at Mercedes,and  he could have stayed at McLaren

It was about how you win and if dominating the sport is the real aim of any athlethe? And if a dominating drive is really seen as the greates driver, if this is what ANy F1 driver wants.

 

Clearly, Schumacher moving to Ferrari in 1996 was no where near as big a challenge as moving to Mercedes for Hamilton in 2013. Good lord!



#103 Raven8

Raven8
  • Member

  • 705 posts
  • Joined: September 13

Posted 23 September 2013 - 23:21

Its possible to both tell the truth and be bitter at the same time.

It's possible it's not bitter

 

So you're saying every team boss and ex-driver considers Senna the greatest? Hamilton is more like Senna than Schumacher? 

 

Dude, I know a lot of team bosses who consider Senna as the greatest and I know a lot of them who consider Schumacher as that. Get some team bosses from the Fangio era and there will be quite a few that nominate him. It's an endless debate because it involves human opinion which varies and cannot be quantified ever. What you are doing is responding in a vague manner. You're almost stating Senna as the best of all time as fact. It's not. It's your opinion. Belittling the achievements of Schumacher is highly easy. For once, just ask yourself how many 7 championships are? 

MOST, not EVERY

I don't think you'll get some team bosses from Fangios era.

It's not only my opinion : http://f1greatestdri...t.com/?driver=1



#104 Schuttelberg

Schuttelberg
  • Member

  • 263 posts
  • Joined: September 13

Posted 23 September 2013 - 23:23

Nice debate chaps! Be back tomorrow! :) 



#105 Winter98

Winter98
  • Member

  • 638 posts
  • Joined: October 12

Posted 23 September 2013 - 23:24

Source :http://en.espnf1.com...ory/126573.html

 

Sounds like a very bitter Hamilton to me. 

 

Opinions?

That's about as classic a case of sour grapes as I've ever seen.

 

EDIT:  Changed my mind a bit.  see post #108


Edited by Winter98, 23 September 2013 - 23:36.


#106 Raven8

Raven8
  • Member

  • 705 posts
  • Joined: September 13

Posted 23 September 2013 - 23:24

Clearly, Schumacher moving to Ferrari in 1996 was no where near as big a challenge as moving to Mercedes for Hamilton in 2013. Good lord!

who said this?



#107 sennafan24

sennafan24
  • Member

  • 3,509 posts
  • Joined: July 13

Posted 23 September 2013 - 23:26

That's about as classic a case of sour grapes as I've ever seen.

Its kinda out of context though, he also compliments Vettel in the same article.

 

"he needs all the credit he deserves."


Edited by sennafan24, 23 September 2013 - 23:26.


#108 Winter98

Winter98
  • Member

  • 638 posts
  • Joined: October 12

Posted 23 September 2013 - 23:35

Its kinda out of context though, he also compliments Vettel in the same article.

 

"he needs all the credit he deserves."

Yeah, I reread it after reading one of your earlier comments about that.

 

I can see where LH, and probably all drivers, would prefer to win it in an epic battle that is decided on the last corner of the last race.  Maybe LH could have added something like:  "But I would rather be winning WDCs than finishing off the podium".  Perhaps he felt he didn't need to say it, that it was obvious.

 

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, so good point sennafan24.  :up:



#109 Raven8

Raven8
  • Member

  • 705 posts
  • Joined: September 13

Posted 23 September 2013 - 23:38

Its kinda out of context though, he also compliments Vettel in the same article.

 

"he needs all the credit he deserves."

"I saw a glimpse of him on the podium and I was happy for him. I tried to imagine what it would be like if I was winning races the way he is winning races. Me, I don't want to be able to be that far ahead, I want to be able to fight with him or whoever. But this is the way it is, and it's definitely not a positive thing to hear that he has been booed.

"He's on his way to his fourth World Championship and he needs all the credit if he wins it."

( source SkyF1)



#110 squall1981

squall1981
  • Member

  • 33 posts
  • Joined: September 13

Posted 23 September 2013 - 23:44

t

 

Win yes, dominate- no. There is a difference, and it matters how you win.

I guess usain bolt isn't too happy destroying the field every event, im sure he won't be regarded as the best because he wins too easy? or maybe man utd or Barcelona should be ashamed for winning too much?



#111 undersquare

undersquare
  • Member

  • 18,929 posts
  • Joined: November 07

Posted 24 September 2013 - 00:01

You're the one who hasn't explained anything. Another poster has clearly highlighted what comes across as 'bitter' to a Vettel fan may be. Your posting the same quotes in bold and big sizes doesn't change it. Perhaps, you could actually try see our perspective before telling us we haven't explained anything because you've not explained peanuts either. It's quite classy to ask someone to suck your opinion up when you have little or no respect for someone else's. 

He's quite obviously not bitter, and you haven't been able to back up your empty opinion that he sounded so.

 

You chose 'bitter' as a pejorative term to characterise his words, taking them out of context to start your bash thread,  I've seen a lot of them, and it's true they do not engender respect in me.  Suck it up.  If you'd settled for 'envious' you might have pulled it off, but you were greedy.



#112 sennafan24

sennafan24
  • Member

  • 3,509 posts
  • Joined: July 13

Posted 24 September 2013 - 00:06

 

t

 

Missing the point

 

Fixed again



#113 HP

HP
  • Member

  • 14,254 posts
  • Joined: October 99

Posted 24 September 2013 - 00:21

Those current drivers are real sissy  ;) :p 

 

MS for example in his early F1 career wanted to lap everyone if possible. And don't get me started on Senna. He loved to crush the competition, especially his teammates.



#114 f1motogp

f1motogp
  • Member

  • 35 posts
  • Joined: May 13

Posted 24 September 2013 - 00:38



What a joke!
Senna doesn't like to win in this way, that's the kind of sportman he is and a very sincere one.  :lol:



#115 Burtros

Burtros
  • Member

  • 1,017 posts
  • Joined: July 11

Posted 24 September 2013 - 00:38

He would have stayed at Mclaren and not have moved to an supposed inferior team,  if he would relish  titles more than challenges or batttels.

 

You think Hamilton was fed up with the easy ride he was getting at McLaren and moved to Mercedes for the challenge?



#116 Burtros

Burtros
  • Member

  • 1,017 posts
  • Joined: July 11

Posted 24 September 2013 - 00:41

Heres something else, sorry if its been covered.

 

What was Hamilton doing going to Red Bull in Canada last year if he doesn't want a package as competitive as Vettel has?

 

Honestly, the deeper you dive the more revealing the comments become. He's getting more and more frustrated with Vettel domination.


Edited by Burtros, 24 September 2013 - 00:43.


#117 sennafan24

sennafan24
  • Member

  • 3,509 posts
  • Joined: July 13

Posted 24 September 2013 - 00:44

What a joke!
Senna doesn't like to win in this way, that's the kind of sportman he is and a very sincere one.  :lol:

I do not think anyone is saying that



#118 bourbon

bourbon
  • Member

  • 6,718 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 24 September 2013 - 01:03

I didn't see him slowing down to duke it out with anyone on any of those weekends when he had a clear lead and shot off into the distance.   Back to our Oz 2008 ways I see.

 

I know you have nothing to be sour about.  So what's your excuse?  :stoned:

 

The article is from the BBC which is headlined 

Lewis Hamilton: Sebastian Vettel does not deserve to be booed

others headlined it:

 

That is the context.  Lewis thinks the booing is happening largely because of Sebi's ongoing car advantage.  It's pretty obvious that he (and even Sebi who knows) would rather NOT be booed but win with a dazzling herioc struggle.  That's what's not rocket science.

 

It was cool of him to stand up for Seb. 

 

However, on his point about not wanting an advantage:  Drivers all love racing and so from that perspective none of them might like an advantage and would rather duke it out every week and showoff their achievements as a driver  - but racing isn't all about the driver.  Racing is also about the car and those behind the car want to see the most gotten out of their achievements and show off the car.  So while Lewis' statement is racy and cool from a driver standpoint (and that of driver fans), it is not so brilliant from the perspective of those who are behind the car and the fans who want to see a mighty F1 car running at full tilt - or as near as possible - on any given Sunday.   

 

And of course, we know which of the CAR and the DRIVER has the MONEY :lol:.  Money talks and so the instruction will always be to show off the car to its fullest ability (in the circumstances) and win, using every means to do so, including dominant drives - especially dominant drives where the win can be more certain.  So losing argument for Lewis, although not necessarily a bad one.  If Hamilton is seriously dedicated to that belief, then he should join a spec series.


Edited by bourbon, 24 September 2013 - 01:05.


#119 MikeV1987

MikeV1987
  • Member

  • 1,505 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 24 September 2013 - 01:04

He's telling his fans what they want to hear, I doubt he'd complain if he was in Vettel's position right now.



Advertisement

#120 ASFA2011

ASFA2011
  • Member

  • 298 posts
  • Joined: September 11

Posted 24 September 2013 - 01:10

I don't know , I'm kind of with Hamiton on this one and what I mean is that for Vettel must be fantastic to win in that way crushing the competition but at the same time it must feel I little bit like a hollow victories knowing that you win so easily because your car is 2 secs per lap faster than you nearest competitor ( not Vettel 's fault at all ) , it is like fighting with someone who can only use a hand because the other is tied behind his back

#121 f1motogp

f1motogp
  • Member

  • 35 posts
  • Joined: May 13

Posted 24 September 2013 - 02:02

I do not think anyone is saying that

I don't see his comments as sincere as it should be. Firstly he will and has already won in this fashion before and if not it's because he hasn't found a chance so far not that he passed those chances, After all he likes to be Senna and Senna won a lot of races in this way.
He is also belittling Vettel's achievements and is bringing up another excuse for the booers. Until yesterday the reasons for the booing were Malaysia, or Some of the "Passionate" = rabid fans of Ferrari in Monza but now "Easy wins" become a new reason for those booers?

He could have easily condamned the booers without needing to big up himself.



#122 HeadFirst

HeadFirst
  • Member

  • 524 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 24 September 2013 - 02:21

He's telling his fans what they want to hear, I doubt he'd complain if he was in Vettel's position right now.

Of course he wouldn't, but I think Lewis is sincere in what he says. Lewis has often said that he enjoys the fight, as have many other drivers. Winning is great, but overcoming a worthy opponent is even better.



#123 Brother Fox

Brother Fox
  • Member

  • 5,045 posts
  • Joined: January 01

Posted 24 September 2013 - 02:58

A Hamilton v Vettel thread - this is going about as well as expected.



#124 Romulan

Romulan
  • Member

  • 325 posts
  • Joined: April 12

Posted 24 September 2013 - 03:08

It's an unfortunate, myopic statement by a depressed former champion. 

 

"It's every driver's dream to have a car to be able to fight, but me, I don't want to be that far ahead." 

 

Does anyone wonder why Red Bull Racing rejected Hamilton's offer to join their team?


Edited by Romulan, 24 September 2013 - 03:30.


#125 swerved

swerved
  • Member

  • 3,622 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 24 September 2013 - 03:11

Heres something else, sorry if its been covered.

 

What was Hamilton doing going to Red Bull in Canada last year if he doesn't want a package as competitive as Vettel has?

 

Honestly, the deeper you dive the more revealing the comments become. He's getting more and more frustrated with Vettel domination.

 

 

:up: Before that as well

 

 

 "I feel that I've given them a good direction of what I want to see in the car. It seems obvious: I want what Red Bull have, but it isn't as simple as that."

 

 

http://www.independe...at-2307022.html



#126 bourbon

bourbon
  • Member

  • 6,718 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 24 September 2013 - 04:26

:up: Before that as well

 

 

 "I feel that I've given them a good direction of what I want to see in the car. It seems obvious: I want what Red Bull have, but it isn't as simple as that."

 

 

http://www.independe...hat-2307022.htm

 

That looks like a pretty straight forward contradiction... 



#127 Raven8

Raven8
  • Member

  • 705 posts
  • Joined: September 13

Posted 24 September 2013 - 04:45

That looks like a pretty straight forward contradiction... 

No, there is no contradiction at all, as it was 2011, and he speaks about the blown diffuser


Edited by Raven8, 24 September 2013 - 04:54.


#128 lbennie

lbennie
  • Member

  • 2,046 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 24 September 2013 - 04:58

Webber is not a team mate this seson he is worse than Massa anyone would be better in the 2nd RBR even Chilton. Vettel had easy wins and easy qualys at all those races you listed. This 6-0 from Vettel over Webber is just another proof how easy he has it, he has no competiotion in his team,and a superior car while Hamilton has the strongest team mate of all them and not an superior car

*BTW Hamilton had a puncture at Monza wich held him back in the race

He never lets up like at Hungary qualy?

 

 

Webber has been extremely close to winning 3 races this season, and if you actually paid attention during races to drivers other than your favourites you would see hes had extrememly good pace as well.

 

Massa doing better.. come on man & chilton?!?! what the :rotfl:



#129 apoka

apoka
  • Member

  • 3,529 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 24 September 2013 - 05:11

I don't know , I'm kind of with Hamiton on this one and what I mean is that for Vettel must be fantastic to win in that way crushing the competition but at the same time it must feel I little bit like a hollow victories knowing that you win so easily because your car is 2 secs per lap faster than you nearest competitor ( not Vettel 's fault at all ) , it is like fighting with someone who can only use a hand because the other is tied behind his back

 

It's not like Vettel has that kind of gap in many races, for instance Germany this year was a hard fought win. In many other races this year, he didn't have a shot at the win, but maximised points. So I think Vettel doesn't mind having some wins with a clear advantage, in particular since there is hard work behind that (this is where I do not fully agree with Hamilton - you need to work very hard as driver and team to make that happen). 



#130 seahawk

seahawk
  • Member

  • 3,132 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 24 September 2013 - 05:55

Vettel rarely ever had to push this season. He will win the title, but he should hand the trophy directly over to Adian, just like the previous years.



#131 Brother Fox

Brother Fox
  • Member

  • 5,045 posts
  • Joined: January 01

Posted 24 September 2013 - 06:03

:rolleyes:



#132 undersquare

undersquare
  • Member

  • 18,929 posts
  • Joined: November 07

Posted 24 September 2013 - 06:24

I didn't see him slowing down to duke it out with anyone on any of those weekends when he had a clear lead and shot off into the distance.   Back to our Oz 2008 ways I see.

 

 

It was cool of him to stand up for Seb. 

 

However, on his point about not wanting an advantage:  Drivers all love racing and so from that perspective none of them might like an advantage and would rather duke it out every week and showoff their achievements as a driver  - but racing isn't all about the driver.  Racing is also about the car and those behind the car want to see the most gotten out of their achievements and show off the car.  So while Lewis' statement is racy and cool from a driver standpoint (and that of driver fans), it is not so brilliant from the perspective of those who are behind the car and the fans who want to see a mighty F1 car running at full tilt - or as near as possible - on any given Sunday.   

 

And of course, we know which of the CAR and the DRIVER has the MONEY :lol:.  Money talks and so the instruction will always be to show off the car to its fullest ability (in the circumstances) and win, using every means to do so, including dominant drives - especially dominant drives where the win can be more certain.  So losing argument for Lewis, although not necessarily a bad one.  If Hamilton is seriously dedicated to that belief, then he should join a spec series.

He did not say he doesn't want an advantage.

 

Nor did he say he doesn't want a Red Bull or any of the other snide inventions that have sprung up.

 

He said "Me, I don't want to be that far ahead",

 

That's not saying he'd drive slowly in Vettel's position either, he would max the car like any of them, for the team as you say.  You dreamed up an argument that you could put Lewis on the losing end of.

 

Given the booing it's quite likely that Sebi himself would rather not be so far ahead, don't you think?  Taking apoka's point above but obviously the points situation tells the story of the season as a whole.  Anyone would rather be a hero than a pantomime villain being booed on the podium.

 

This is an ugly thread, full of dishonesty.



#133 seahawk

seahawk
  • Member

  • 3,132 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 24 September 2013 - 06:28

There is no reason for :rolleyes:

 

No team had a better car on average since 2009. RBR is the only team who always had a winning car for larger parts of the season. Newey was the only designer who was able to make the car fast regardless of any pre-season oder midseason rule changes. It is not bashing Vettel, if one points out that his major advantage is a designer, a car and a team that so far have never reached a dead end in car development. Even this year, when the car was not dominant in the early races, Vettel could collect points with the confidence that the RBR technical team will get the car to work and they did. Alonso or Hamilton could not have this confidence and if one is honest their respective technical teams did not deliver the same results as Newey and his team did.

 

Look at how much the teams are paying their best engineers and how much head-hunting is going on between the technical teams. It would be wrong to talk down the contributions of the technical teams to the success of each team. In fact I think there are a more drivers who would win the WDC in the RBRs Vettel got to drive, than there are technical teams able to built those cars.



#134 Brother Fox

Brother Fox
  • Member

  • 5,045 posts
  • Joined: January 01

Posted 24 September 2013 - 06:40

There is no reason for :rolleyes:

 

No team had a better car on average since 2009. RBR is the only team who always had a winning car for larger parts of the season. Newey was the only designer who was able to make the car fast regardless of any pre-season oder midseason rule changes. It is not bashing Vettel, if one points out that his major advantage is a designer, a car and a team that so far have never reached a dead end in car development. Even this year, when the car was not dominant in the early races, Vettel could collect points with the confidence that the RBR technical team will get the car to work and they did. Alonso or Hamilton could not have this confidence and if one is honest their respective technical teams did not deliver the same results as Newey and his team did.

 

Look at how much the teams are paying their best engineers and how much head-hunting is going on between the technical teams. It would be wrong to talk down the contributions of the technical teams to the success of each team. In fact I think there are a more drivers who would win the WDC in the RBRs Vettel got to drive, than there are technical teams able to built those cars.

 

I'll highlight the parts you wrote that make your first comment look stupid.

The rest I'll leave up to you.



#135 OldSoldier2

OldSoldier2
  • Member

  • 144 posts
  • Joined: December 11

Posted 24 September 2013 - 06:45

Hamilton is lying again.

 

From Autosport yesterday: "One of the most striking aspects of his (Vettel's) victory was his final margin over his rivals: 32.627 seconds.

This is rarely seen in modern Formula 1: in the 2008 British Grand Prix, Lewis Hamilton was able to put more than a minute (1m08.577s) over Nick Heidfeld in the wet..."

 

I prefer it to Vettel's (seeing as he is the hot topic at the moment) trying to collect stats for the sake of it, as if F1 is a computer game. As Vettel is discovering for himself, in F1 stats are seldom enough to secure widespread respect and "legend" status.

 

LewDaMan: How do you 'know' Vettel is 'trying to collect stats for the sake of it'? Or is this just slander repeated from reading other comments on this board? :down:


Edited by OldSoldier2, 24 September 2013 - 06:53.


#136 P123

P123
  • Member

  • 8,414 posts
  • Joined: February 09

Posted 24 September 2013 - 06:50

He's telling his fans what they want to hear, I doubt he'd complain if he was in Vettel's position right now.

 

Nobody would complain.  They'd all love to be in such a car for such a length of time.  I'm sure other drivers look at Vettel lapping 2s faster in the dry an just shake their heads- you aren't going to compete with that, it's a different formula. However I'm sure SV et al probably remember more fondly and gain satisfaction to a greater degree from races in which they fight it out for victory.

 

As for your confidence that he's "telling his fans what they want to hear" (I'd think it's more frustration talking), clearly from the reaction there are some aspects that a number of Vettel fans don't wish to accept- i.e, he's a great driver, deserves credit for his success, but has had a regular and sometimes whopping car advantage.  Strangely, F1 fans always take this as an insult, in a sport where the car is the greater contributing factor to success.


Edited by P123, 24 September 2013 - 06:51.


#137 kosmos

kosmos
  • Member

  • 6,859 posts
  • Joined: December 06

Posted 24 September 2013 - 06:57

He is probably saying the truth, there is no reason to lie and is well known that Hamilton likes to go with other drivers head to head in close combat but I'm pretty sure all the drivers will love to have a car good enough to disappear after lap 1. I think Hamilton, Kimi and Alonso have done enough close racing to deserve a dominant car, but is not Vettel's fault that they don't have it, is Ferrari/Mercedes/Lotus fault for not being as smart as RB is.


Edited by kosmos, 24 September 2013 - 06:59.


#138 bourbon

bourbon
  • Member

  • 6,718 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 24 September 2013 - 07:17

He did not say he doesn't want an advantage.

 

Nor did he say he doesn't want a Red Bull or any of the other snide inventions that have sprung up.

 

He said "Me, I don't want to be that far ahead",

 

That's not saying he'd drive slowly in Vettel's position either, he would max the car like any of them, for the team as you say.  You dreamed up an argument that you could put Lewis on the losing end of.

 

Given the booing it's quite likely that Sebi himself would rather not be so far ahead, don't you think?  Taking apoka's point above but obviously the points situation tells the story of the season as a whole.  Anyone would rather be a hero than a pantomime villain being booed on the podium.

 

This is an ugly thread, full of dishonesty.

 

How is that dishonest?  I used Oz 2008 because it is as good an example as any and I happen to remember it because I wanted him to have that race win and felt his exuberance when he got it.  But there was no struggle, 1 pass and he was off in the distance, including after a safety car stint - similar to Vettel's Singapore run.  Does not that show that he is just as exuberant after a "easy" race win as a more difficult one?  So perhaps the difficult ones are sweeter - but nobody would accuse Vettel of feeling distinctly about that - all drivers would probably agree on that.  [ETA: I do not believe that there is such a thing as an "easy" win, but I mean easier than a wheel to wheel finish.]

 

What argument did I dream up?  He stated he would not like to be that far ahead because he enjoyed wheel to wheel competition - but he also enjoys wins when he is far ahead in a race (i.e., Oz 2008)  and he admitted wanting what 'Red Bull Have' back when what they had gave them a clear advantage over the field.  Furthermore, if he could zip ahead, the team would make him do so in any case.   It was a contradictory and losing argument, but as I said, I wasn't judging him poorly for it because I understand his love of wheel to wheel racing and his love of winning a race - sometimes drivers simply cannot have both.


Edited by bourbon, 24 September 2013 - 07:25.


#139 krobinson

krobinson
  • Member

  • 202 posts
  • Joined: January 99

Posted 24 September 2013 - 07:51

Vettel rarely ever had to push this season. He will win the title, but he should hand the trophy directly over to Adian, just like the previous years.

:up:



Advertisement

#140 squall1981

squall1981
  • Member

  • 33 posts
  • Joined: September 13

Posted 24 September 2013 - 08:05

i would love to see newey driving the car, i doubt he would get within 15 seconds of vettel each lap



#141 seahawk

seahawk
  • Member

  • 3,132 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 24 September 2013 - 08:06

I'll highlight the parts you wrote that make your first comment look stupid.

The rest I'll leave up to you.

As the Newey is the head of the technical team, I thought it was obvious that Iuse his name as a synonym for the whole technical squad at RBR. Imho he and hsi teams deserve more praise than Vettel. But then I think Byrne deserve much of the praise Schumacher got.



#142 bourbon

bourbon
  • Member

  • 6,718 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 24 September 2013 - 08:48

i would love to see newey driving the car, i doubt he would get within 15 seconds of vettel each lap

 

The vision of Newey going for it is quite something, lol.  I think what is meant is that any driver could do it, so the team is to be praised, not the driver.  Which means that if Alonso or Lewis or any other driver had been driving these four years, and winning, everyone would be putting them down as having shown nothing for their efforts in the Red Bull against other teams that were not as good. 

 

The bottom line is that no driver could get any accolades driving for Red Bull over the last four years as the car is so brilliant, only the team had the possibility of achieving anything.  Which begs the question of why Hamilton made a push to join the team and become another 'captain dunzel'. 


Edited by bourbon, 24 September 2013 - 08:50.


#143 velgajski1

velgajski1
  • Member

  • 3,619 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 24 September 2013 - 08:59

Some people really like to take one sentence out of context and then build a whole bloody theory around it :)



#144 tifosiMac

tifosiMac
  • Member

  • 6,706 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 24 September 2013 - 09:00

I can't say driving off into the distance and spending the second half of any race cruising to collect is my idea of fun racing. I think Hamilton is just saying he enjoys racing as much as winning. Sprinting to a win gets the results and the stats, but its not half as much fun as chasing someone down and dicing for the win IMO. I'm sure Hamilton is lying if he said he didn't wish he was in the Red Bull because it would certainly bump up his win rate. Results and stats are not everything though. The greatest don't always hold the most race wins or titles IMO. I guess I just like racing, competing against others and coming out on top. Racing from the front and setting fastest times must get boring after a good while.



#145 SophieB

SophieB
  • RC Forum Host

  • 2,195 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 24 September 2013 - 09:07

The bottom line is that no driver could get any accolades driving for Red Bull over the last four years as the car is so brilliant, only the team had the possibility of achieving anything.  Which begs the question of why Hamilton made a push to join the team and become another 'captain dunzel'. 

 

I am presuming he has remembered that is unlikely to happen as he would still have to fight Vettel in the sister car, no matter how good it may or may not be.



#146 ConsiderAndGo

ConsiderAndGo
  • Member

  • 1,197 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 24 September 2013 - 09:09

Oh Lewis  :lol:



#147 bub

bub
  • Member

  • 2,345 posts
  • Joined: July 11

Posted 24 September 2013 - 09:13

The vision of Newey going for it is quite something, lol.  I think what is meant is that any driver could do it, so the team is to be praised, not the driver.  Which means that if Alonso or Lewis or any other driver had been driving these four years, and winning, everyone would be putting them down as having shown nothing for their efforts in the Red Bull against other teams that were not as good. 

 

The bottom line is that no driver could get any accolades driving for Red Bull over the last four years as the car is so brilliant, only the team had the possibility of achieving anything.  Which begs the question of why Hamilton made a push to join the team and become another 'captain dunzel'.

 

Because then he would have a car to fight with them (Vettel). If you have a dominant car and beat a top rated driver teammate with equal machinery and treatment then you get lots of credit and win titles (can't ask for more than that).

 

Hamilton is just echoing the thoughts of most people.

-The Red Bull is the best car (particularly in the last race)

-Wouldn't want a car that is so far ahead that there is no real fight involved and people think it's all down to the car, don't give you enough credit and boo you. 

-The booing is wrong.

-Vettel deserves credit.



#148 mtojay

mtojay
  • Member

  • 120 posts
  • Joined: November 12

Posted 24 September 2013 - 09:13

Vettel rarely ever had to push this season. He will win the title, but he should hand the trophy directly over to Adian, just like the previous years.

 

yeah hand it over to newey, as the drivers from 1999 to 2010 did who drove in newey cars. oh wait, before vettel newey designed cars didnt win a championship for 11 years  :cry:  :cry:  :cry:  how is that even possible.



#149 bourbon

bourbon
  • Member

  • 6,718 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 24 September 2013 - 09:15

I can't say driving off into the distance and spending the second half of any race cruising to collect is my idea of fun racing. I think Hamilton is just saying he enjoys racing as much as winning. Sprinting to a win gets the results and the stats, but its not half as much fun as chasing someone down and dicing for the win IMO. I'm sure Hamilton is lying if he said he didn't wish he was in the Red Bull because it would certainly bump up his win rate. Results and stats are not everything though. The greatest don't always hold the most race wins or titles IMO. I guess I just like racing, competing against others and coming out on top. Racing from the front and setting fastest times must get boring after a good while.

 

But the point is that a driver generally does not jump into the lead and run off into the distance without having to do any wheel to wheel at all during the race.  Technically, Vettel even had to do so at the beginning of the last race - but that apart, he has had a lot of opportunity to do wheel to wheel during the season, in races he has not won and those he has.  One cannot suddenly forget all of the season's races and pretend yesterday is the example of how all of his races have gone - or how all of the races of any driver in this day and age will go. 

 

And let's not forget that Alonso had no wheel to wheel at all after driving through traffic on the outside to attain 3rd at the start and then 2nd after the pits.  But for some reason that does not bore anyone - it is somehow possible to sit in 2nd place with no track interaction and be entertaining?  He wasn't as far ahead, no, but far enough not to have to be bothered by anything going on behind.  Yet not one peep about that distinction from Hamilton or anyone else.

 

Hamilton had wheel to wheel, but he was not happy after the race, so clearly that is not alone enough to satisfy him.  However, as I pointed out, when he wins he is happy, even if he has practically no wheel to wheel like in Oz 2008.  So I think what he would like is both, but winning is more important and as you say, he'd take that if offered, even if it meant giving up wheel to wheel for the season.

 

 

I am presuming he has remembered that is unlikely to happen as he would still have to fight Vettel in the sister car, no matter how good it may or may not be.

 

Because then he would have a car to fight with them (Vettel). If you have a dominant car and beat a top rated driver teammate with equal machinery and treatment then you get lots of credit and win titles (can't ask for more than that).

 

That makes no sense.  When Seb drives the wheels off of his dominant car without a challenger, the "driver's" input is meaningless.  But if two drivers are driving the wheels off of their more or less equally dominant cars, one can actually give props to the "driver" that comes out on top?  How does that work? 

 

How do you know that one of the cars wasn't just a tad more dominant than the other and that it is the winning car that should still receive the props? 

 

And how do you know in the case of Seb driving his dominant car, it is not his input that makes the difference between a win and a loss?

 

I don't think Hamilton thought that thru carefully if that is what he meant.


Edited by bourbon, 24 September 2013 - 09:41.


#150 tifosiMac

tifosiMac
  • Member

  • 6,706 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 24 September 2013 - 09:47

I think any driver would kill to be in Vettel's position, but it is boring to watch for some of us fans. Imagine being in Alonso or Hamilton's position where they and the team are working hard and just not getting near! I think they are just frustrated they can't do as good a job as Red Bull and perhaps feel surely their turn to have a top car is overdue. Vettel is on the crest of a wave and enjoying the success he deserves, its just frustrating to watch if you are not celebrating with him. Hats off to the kid though :)