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Was Hailwood really that good?


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#101 Russell Burrows

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 12:09

hi as some one,myself pete taylor and my mate john cowie,who raced with mike ,myself at 78 tt and donnington f1 round,and silverstone round,john winner at mallory 2nd hailwood ,read third,,john winner at silverstone,i dont think you guys really knew how good he was,till you have been there  and done it i think you should close the book now ,mike was the best,ask john he beat him twice,but he said he was the best,so unless you where there on the start line lets here no more       peter

Peter, it's a good thing when old racers join the forum, so welcome. It's decidely less good though when their first post attempts to close down legitimate discussion, particularly on such absured grounds.



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#102 drumwrecker

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 20:44

BT Sport is showing a Mike Hailwood documentary this week on Wednesday, I think?



#103 Paul Rochdale

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 11:30

"It's decidely less good though when their first post attempts to close down legitimate discussion, particularly on such absured grounds".

 

But Russell, that's just the point, is it ligitimate discussion to ask if Hailwood was that good? I thought it ridiculous at the very beginning of the thread, and nothing has convinced me otherwise since then. Utterly daft. Can Hamilton drive a bit, could Jimmy Greaves kick a ball, was the Malaysian airliner stolen by Martians, is the Moon made from cheese? C'mon now, this forum and it's contributors can do better. 



#104 chunder27

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 15:26

Its the same old thing,

 

"You cant have an opinion unless you were there"

 

Hogwash



#105 Telbert

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 20:12

"It's decidely less good though when their first post attempts to close down legitimate discussion, particularly on such absured grounds".

 

But Russell, that's just the point, is it ligitimate discussion to ask if Hailwood was that good? I thought it ridiculous at the very beginning of the thread, and nothing has convinced me otherwise since then. Utterly daft. Can Hamilton drive a bit, could Jimmy Greaves kick a ball, was the Malaysian airliner stolen by Martians, is the Moon made from cheese? C'mon now, this forum and it's contributors can do better. 

As the person who started this thread i thought it was a legitimate question. I was born in 63 and never got to see Hailwood race, Why is it daft to ask if people like Ago, Redmond and Minter regularly gave him a run for his money or whether Hailwood left them all wondering which way he'd gone when i wasn't able to watch those races?

 

To the folks who posted some really good anecdotes, stories and videos, thanks guys, i've loved every one of them especially the video of Hailwood and John Cowie at Mallory. It almost had me in tears. To the people offended by my ignorance, hows about some anecdotes from you to enlighten the less fortunate among us?



#106 mfd

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 22:59

When you put it like that Telbert, I can see your curiosity had grounds. It was a fair question but misunderstood.

 

I'd say that on here most folk are generous with their understanding, so don't give up please!



#107 bella

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 13:49

hi as some one,myself pete taylor and my mate john cowie,who raced with mike ,myself at 78 tt and donnington f1 round,and silverstone round,john winner at mallory 2nd hailwood ,read third,,john winner at silverstone,i dont think you guys really knew how good he was,till you have been there  and done it i think you should close the book now ,mike was the best,ask john he beat him twice,but he said he was the best,so unless you where there on the start line lets here no more       peter

What a pile of dollop.

#108 peterr12009

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 21:03

i take it you were then,



#109 bella

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Posted 27 March 2014 - 16:02

This a forum, ie a place of discussion, and it gives you no right to say whether a topic should or should not be closed off, previous racer or not.
In effect you are saying that in the future when there are no people around who had links to Hailwoods career directly or indirectly that there can be no more discussion on SMBH.
As I said earlier, a pile of dollop.

#110 peterr12009

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Posted 30 March 2014 - 15:32

typical arm chair boring no nothing old fart



#111 Richard Wood

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 07:21

It must be really great to know everything!!



#112 SMonty

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 10:29

typical arm chair boring no nothing old fart

 

For someone who claims to know so much.......you don't "KNOW" very much about grammar.

 

I must also add we don't really go for this type of tone on here. We're a bit more chilled and gentlemanly. So calm yourself down a little.



#113 knickerbrook

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 12:59

 

I must also add we don't really go for this type of tone on here. We're a bit more chilled and gentlemanly. So calm yourself down a little.

I second that!

 

Aside from his riding ability, Hailwood was a remarkably nice man - a true gent - who must be turning in his grave at the thought of all this bickering in his name.

So lets all be nice and enjoy the brotherhood :kiss:



#114 bella

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Posted 31 March 2014 - 14:43

For someone who claims to know so much.......you don't "KNOW" very much about grammar.
 
I must also add we don't really go for this type of tone on here. We're a bit more chilled and gentlemanly. So calm yourself down a little.


Very true.
He needs sending across to Motobanzai, the ever so slightly lower tone there will suit him.

#115 roger9650

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 14:38

For one awful moment I thought I'd strayed on to the TT Forum!

Mixed feelings about the documentary recently shown on BT Sport.  Great to see some of the old faces and another side of Mike, I thought Pauline seemed particularly nice, she must've had a hard life at times.

What the producers clearly didn't realise though was that the noises were important too, to have an MV drowned out by some trite ditty was a sacrilege.  

Nevertheless worth watching though. 



#116 RC162

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 18:15

hi as some one,myself pete taylor and my mate john cowie,who raced with mike ,myself at 78 tt and donnington f1 round,and silverstone round,john winner at mallory 2nd hailwood ,read third,,john winner at silverstone,i dont think you guys really knew how good he was,till you have been there  and done it i think you should close the book now ,mike was the best,ask john he beat him twice,but he said he was the best,so unless you where there on the start line lets here no more       peter

 

Hi Peter

              Had a look at your results on the TT database ( only one Peter Taylor ) and from what I see you wouldn't have seen too much of Mike Hailwood to judge his ability either !      :lol:



#117 Roogazza

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 19:58

Hi Peter

              Had a look at your results on the TT database ( only one Peter Taylor ) and from what I see you wouldn't have seen too much of Mike Hailwood to judge his ability either !      :lol:

:clap:   MH was always my hero as a young fella and getting to meet the man at a Marlboro Series NZ piss up

mid seventies, was a joy.

I travel every year to Mugello for the GP there. I hope to to be able to say I met V Rossi one day too ?

Maybe ,just maybe, this year ?  

Enjoy popping in here every so often. Turning 65 next week !wow !



#118 GD66

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 00:28

You're everywhere, Gaz ! :wave:



#119 Russell Burrows

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 02:46

"It's decidely less good though when their first post attempts to close down legitimate discussion, particularly on such absured grounds".

 

But Russell, that's just the point, is it ligitimate discussion to ask if Hailwood was that good? I thought it ridiculous at the very beginning of the thread, and nothing has convinced me otherwise since then. Utterly daft. Can Hamilton drive a bit, could Jimmy Greaves kick a ball, was the Malaysian airliner stolen by Martians, is the Moon made from cheese? C'mon now, this forum and it's contributors can do better. 

Dont think anyone disputes the guy's talent, Paul.  Must be legit though to ponder his career, the what ifs and maybes ?



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#120 Roogazza

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 06:38

You're everywhere, Gaz ! :wave:

Lol yeah Glen , birthday tomorrow !    :wave:



#121 cregnybaa

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 17:42

Hi Peter

              Had a look at your results on the TT database ( only one Peter Taylor ) and from what I see you wouldn't have seen too much of Mike Hailwood to judge his ability either !      :lol:

And what results do you have from the IOM that would allow you to make a comment like that.



#122 Classicpics

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 19:49

MikeMontage_zps893f2262.jpg

 

 

Shall we quit this thread?

 

We, the lucky ones, who saw him and met him know how good he was and the type of man he was.

 

The ones who didn't see him can only read about his life and make an judgement from what they find.  :cool:


Edited by Classicpics, 10 April 2014 - 19:49.


#123 Yendor

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 07:44

Was Hailwood really that good? 

 

Yes he was.



#124 mfd

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Posted 11 April 2014 - 09:08

That'll do Rod !



#125 Jim77

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Posted 22 June 2014 - 12:07

What decided it for me was when I saw him ride the BSA in the Production event at Silverstone.



#126 twotempi

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 03:38

Was Hailwood really that good? 

 

Yes he was.

 

No need to yell !!

 

Hailwood was a good rider in the same way that Michelangelo was a better than average interior decorator who specialized in ceilings. And yes , I saw him ride.



#127 Russell Burrows

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 10:22

I saw him ride too; when on equal machinery - Manxes, 7R's, G50's - he was often beaten by the likes of Minter, McIntyre, Read, Neville et al.  Only a fool would doubt the guy's brillance, but I wonder if his status of near sanctification would apply if he had lived ?   Another thought on my class warrior theme : SMBH is on record as telling us that he considered Minter as his main rival during the early sixties, someone who due to parental disaporoval and lack of funds couldn't race until age 21, the same age as SMBH first became World Champ . 



#128 cregnybaa

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 17:10

I saw him ride too; when on equal machinery - Manxes, 7R's, G50's - he was often beaten by the likes of Minter, McIntyre, Read, Neville et al.  Only a fool would doubt the guy's brillance, but I wonder if his status of near sanctification would apply if he had lived ?   Another thought on my class warrior theme : SMBH is on record as telling us that he considered Minter as his main rival during the early sixties, someone who due to parental disaporoval and lack of funds couldn't race until age 21, the same age as SMBH first became World Champ . 

 

I wouldn't mind betting he still beat them more often than they beat him on equal machinery.

In the 67 season he won 2 world championships and almost a third then was forced to retire from GPs due to Honda pulling the plug, at this time he was still only 26 years old having won 9 world championships and 12 TTs amongst many other achievements. if you really want to know how good he was just ask AGO and many others including Luton boy that were around at the time.



#129 Russell Burrows

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Posted 30 June 2014 - 22:37

I wouldn't mind betting he still beat them more often than they beat him on equal machinery.

I wouldn't bet my house on this being so in Minter's case. 



#130 Telbert

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 20:42

What decided it for me was when I saw him ride the BSA in the Production event at Silverstone.

Any chance of telling those of us who weren't there what happened Jim? 



#131 chunder27

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Posted 03 July 2014 - 22:12

I think as I recall he won an event on a total bog standard bike, even had mirrors, a reg plate and lights!

 

But I might be wrong.



#132 Jim77

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Posted 04 July 2014 - 01:11

Telbert,  03 July 2014 - 21.42, said:

Any chance of telling those of us who weren't there what happened Jim?

All I can remember at the 1965 Hutchinson 100 was rain and how Hailwood managed to control the BSA . I’ve since looked up and found that Phil Read and Percy Tait came in 2nd and 3rd  riding Lawton&Wilson Bonneville’s (think they were factory bikes), Hailwood’s  bike was entered by Tom Kirby. I know from watching  production events at that time the BSA’s didn’t handle very well, have you heard the expression handles like a camel! This is the reason I bought a Bonneville the following year to eventually try my hand at racing.

 

At the same meeting Hailwood won the 500 and 350 races riding MV and AJS.

 

Found this image of the BSA at  https://www.theimage...&id=12886296602 notice the silencer!


Edited by Jim77, 10 September 2014 - 12:33.


#133 drumwrecker

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Posted 19 July 2014 - 20:54

How the heck do I post a URL on this site?

http://www.asianmoto...s/story0726.asp

Had to type it in.

The above story is exactly as I remember it except I thought Mike had broke his thumb in the accident.

I was in the paddock when Stan Hailwood was asked how he thought today would turn out and he replied Mike on the MV, Minter on the Gilera at Brands, it has to be Minter.

What a pity we were not to find out. but that first race sort of made up for the disappointment.

 

And the link still don't work so add the http to www.asianmoto.com/news/story0726

 

I just don't understand the box that appears to put a link in together with emails etc. Why.


Edited by drumwrecker, 19 July 2014 - 21:03.


#134 Russell Burrows

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Posted 19 July 2014 - 22:11

http://www.asianmoto...s/story0726.asp



#135 drumwrecker

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Posted 20 July 2014 - 21:02

Thanks Russell.