221 replies to this topic

[LewDaMan]

Vettel clearly isn't very charasmatic. But then are any of the drivers?

 

I'd say very few people in life in general are charasmatic. Even then, I'm not sure charisma is always a good thing. It often seems to go hand-in-hand with being an attention-seeker and people too used to getting their own way.

 

I can think of two people in sport who were/are often described as charasmatic. In football, Jose Mourinho. He has a long history of controversial incidents, including poking a Barcelona coach (Vilanova) in the eye. In F1, James Hunt. A man who once threw scalding hot coffee into the eyes of a doorman who had barred him from entering a nightclub for being too drunk.

 

If that's "charisma" then I'll take this generation of "boring" F1 drivers, thanks!

[SpaMaster]

Suppose he spoke the words: "I am number one"?

Those particular races - he won. He has a right to celebrate he was number one for that particular moment i.e. winning. I don't see what is so falsely pretentious about this.

 

And do you agree he covers up his feelings?  Or did so in Malaysia at least?

 

I have no idea whether he covered up his feelings in Malaysia. Even if he did, I can't see why that in particular would be against charisma. There have been numerous sportspersons who cover up their feelings, but seen as quite charismatic. Actually I don't see why there should be this connection at all.
 

[Rich]

Yeah, I'd reckon that Jose Mourinho is a good example of a bloke with natural charisma. More than anybody I've seen in F1, at any rate. I have zero interest in footie but if I'm channel-hopping and Mourinho is on, I stop to listen. He has that aura of intensity plus being in control about him, which compels one to notice him.

[undersquare]

Those particular races - he won. He has a right to celebrate he was number one for that particular moment i.e. winning. I don't see what is so falsely pretentious about this.

 

I have no idea whether he covered up his feelings in Malaysia. Even if he did, I can't see why that in particular would be against charisma. There have been numerous sportspersons who cover up their feelings, but seen as quite charismatic. Actually I don't see why there should be this connection at all.
 

 

I think the infamous finger is about more than the race result.  But whatever there's nothing humble about it is there?  Yet he's so careful to be humble the rest of the time.

 

We know Sebi hid his feelings in Malaysia because he revealed his true feelings the next weekend and they were completely different..

 

 So take this item:  A step by step guide to charisma:

 

"The study, led by British Professor Richard Wiseman, involved more than 200 people taking part in FameLab, a national competition to find the new "faces of science". The ones who scored highest in a questionnaire about how much they seem to transmit their emotions to others also progressed the furthest in the competition, when they used their personalities to impress a panel of judges."

 

and

 

""Whatever skills and techniques you have are routed from your own personality, so you don't come across as fake or insincere. There's nothing worse than that."

 

So I (and Ted Kravitz) think Sebi would be better off being more open about his ambition and his arrogant side, and scaling back the sweet youthful joker persona which doesn't fit in too many ways.

[mardmarium]

I can see that this thread has several pages, interesting. As I said in another post, charisma is basically in the eye of the beholder. Everybody can have their own perception of what charisma is, who is charismatic and who isn´t, but I think there are some hints to know if someone is a charismatic person. When people are interested in that person, what he/she does, says or thinks, how he/she acts in ordinary life, when people think of his/her character, strengths and weaknesses, what that person likes or dislikes, how he/she can react to certain circumstances…that person probably has charisma.  

 

Considering the above mentioned, I think Vettel has charisma. It’s a logical thing to be interested in F1 drivers achievements, their wins and success (especially if you are a F1 fan), that´s something related to their job, not necessarily to their charisma (although success can be part of someone charisma) but I think people are interested in Vettel persona too, in fact, those who boo him are the perfect example of what I am saying.  No matter if they criticize Vettel, the important thing is that they don´t ignore him. Considering people interest in F1 drivers (statistically speaking), he seems to be less charismatic than some other drivers, but that doesn´t mean that he is uncharismatic and probably, if his private life were less private, interest in him would grow. Of course if he doesn´t want to expose his private life (I am not saying that some other drivers want to, most of them probably don´t like to be exposed), he is perfectly right to do so.

[SpaMaster]

I think the infamous finger is about more than the race result.  But whatever there's nothing humble about it is there?  Yet he's so careful to be humble the rest of the time.

 

We know Sebi hid his feelings in Malaysia because he revealed his true feelings the next weekend and they were completely different..

 

 So take this item:  A step by step guide to charisma:

 

..

 

Who the hell is this Ted Kravitz in all this? Is he some kind of an authority on charisma? I most certainly don't think so.

 

I don't particularly get the feeling that Vettel is being careful about being humble. I think you are reading way too much into non-issues.

 

I don't understand why you want to go on this mega-analysis mode on Malaysia. I don't care. Like I said it won't have any bearing on how someone is rated. Lot of other drivers have beein involved in much worse stuff and that does not get them pulled up for lacking charisma.

[undersquare]

Who the hell is this Ted Kravitz in all this? Is he some kind of an authority on charisma? I most certainly don't think so.

 

I don't particularly get the feeling that Vettel is being careful about being humble. I think you are reading way too much into non-issues.

 

I don't understand why you want to go on this mega-analysis mode on Malaysia. I don't care. Like I said it won't have any bearing on how someone is rated. Lot of other drivers have beein involved in much worse stuff and that does not get them pulled up for lacking charisma.

Well some people think Sebi lacks charisma dude.  I do too.  Part of that, afaic, is that he's not open enough and his sweet persona clashes too heavily with his "get him out of the way" persona.  I'd like to like him better as I said up the thread, and my feeling is I could if he were more open about his ruthless competitor side.

 

Ted Kravitz is an F1 insider who's spent quite a lot of time with Sebi, and likes him.

[Group B]

Yeah this gulf between on-track and off-track persona makes me struggle to believe in him.  It gives me the feeling the sweet guy is a bit of a front.

 

I think he'd have more charisma if he was more open about his bastardly side.  Or just more open.  Like in the Multi21 saga he'd have been better to get straight on with the "Sue me I was faster" approach and not do the guilty "Mark deserved it I was wrong" act that he started with.  Charisma isn't about being nice, after all, it's about being interesting, and motorsport fans understand and appreciate a ruthless streak.

 

In many ways it's not just 'not being nice', it's being controversial and sometimes even outright bad, because that is interesting. To an extent I agree with you about Vettel 'revealing' the ruthless side of his personality, which is obviously there, but I'm not 100% sure he really understands himself yet - he strikes me sometimes as a kid who's missed out on one or two lessons on growing up and genuinely doesn't quite get what he's done wrong in a particular situation or how to put it right. The man, like most of them, is obviously no angel, but I'm not convinced he's calculatingly two-faced or manipulative either.

[plumtree]

I was listening to a motorsport magazine podcast with Stirling Moss yesterday, and he was asked a question by someone in the audience "if he could have a pint with any current driver who would it be?"

Stirling said he would like to have a glass of wine with Sebastian Vettel as he was a very nice chap, it seems to me that Vettel is very popular with people in the paddock who have met him.

Nigel Roebuck also recalled how often Senna used to be booed in the early 90's and it was much worse than Vettel is experiencing now. So I don't think the booing has anything to do with a lack of charisma or anything like that, but that he is winning alot just like Senna. People forget that Senna was at the same time the most popular and least popular driver.

Yeah. I also remember after spending a couple hours together on the post Canadian GP Monday Andretti twitted he might adopt Vettel. https://m.facebook.c...556326247753622 You don't get such compliments easily. Waltr Rohrl too has become a big fan of Vettel after their first meeting in 2011 Astralian GP. I guess those are not just coincidences.

[f1seb]

Your name is f1seb.  You are not only a fan of his, you've been a fan since he was driving about in nappies.

 

That's my name!!  I've had it longer and people have been calling me Seb before he was born.

 

Do I sense an ever so light disposition to exaggerate? 

 

Maybe, but it's been done a number of times, at different locations, and it's getting louder.  Don't think it's just the odd 20 or so people following him around the world just to disrupt his interviews and show their displeasure.

 

We couldn't really care less what Petra Ecclestone gives you that you decided to make her your avatar.....whatever man....

SCNR

 

Hey, well at least I'm not shoving her in your face, repeatedly.  And she's hot  , and she's related to a mastermind, and he's into F1, so it makes sense if you think about it.  Plus she's hot.

[skc]

Vettel can be funny sometimes. His appearance or the David Letterman show was good. He made me laugh.. He is definitely not as boring as Shumi

 

Here too http://www.youtube.c...h?v=JGItMTxvbpc

[Jake360]

I've not read other posts but in my opinion Seb is the most charismatic driver on the grid. He is very intelligent and I enjoy his humour and he always comes across really well in interviews.

 

skc beat me to the video I was going to post.

Edited by Jake360, 28 September 2013 - 12:22.

[Winter98]

That's my name!!  I've had it longer and people have been calling me Seb before he was born.

 

 

Maybe, but it's been done a number of times, at different locations, and it's getting louder.  Don't think it's just the odd 20 or so people following him around the world just to disrupt his interviews and show their displeasure.

 

 

Hey, well at least I'm not shoving her in your face, repeatedly.  And she's hot  , and she's related to a mastermind, and he's into F1, so it makes sense if you think about it.  Plus she's hot.

At the risk of sounding sexist, that's always a good reason.

[AlexS]

Hamilton got more charisma when he said NO to Mclaren and went to Mercedes. Saying NO, getting out of confort zone shows personality.

[Group B]

Hamilton got more charisma when he said NO to Mclaren and went to Mercedes. Saying NO, getting out of confort zone shows personality.

 

Did he shout when he said NO?

[Jan.W]

People used to say the same thing about Casey Stoner in MotoGP.. criticising his non driving/riding abilities (his personality) and I just don't get it.

 

I feel like I am watching Big Brother or something.  I can't even comment on this topic very well because I don't really know what people are talking about.  Seb is clever, has humour.. watch his Top Gear or Letterman interviews.  He's fast and dedicated.  I'm not sure what else he is supposed to have.  I feel like to comment on this properly, I'd need to be a female fan who doesn't watch F1.  A casual female F1 fan or something.  Jake Humphries might know more about it.

 

 

[Group B]

People used to say the same thing about Casey Stoner in MotoGP.. criticising his non driving/riding abilities (his personality) and I just don't get it.

 

I feel like I am watching Big Brother or something.  I can't even comment on this topic very well because I don't really know what people are talking about.  Seb is clever, has humour.. watch his Top Gear or Letterman interviews.  He's fast and dedicated.  I'm not sure what else he is supposed to have.  I feel like to comment on this properly, I'd need to be a female fan who doesn't watch F1.  A casual female F1 fan or something.  Jake Humphries might know more about it.

 

You wouldn't understand. After studying the thread I can summarise that the main reasons he deserves to be booed and jeered are because he likes animals and the countryside, doesn't tweet what he had for breakfast, doesn't spend two hours per day on his facial hair and teaching himself 'charisma', gives his cars silly names, and, of course, waves that finger when he wins. Given all that he really ought to be shot.

[joora]

No, Vettel doesn't have charisma. But I think no driver on the current grid has. Maybe only Kimi, but it's hard to judge if it's charisma or just his unfazedness. Webber can be also percieved as charismatic, but I think that's just because there is currently no competition in that field.

 

I think that since drivers are getting into F1 so young(and are part of various programs before they enter), they tend to be moulded by the teams and behave in accordance with the team expectations and demands (as in, giving insincere and boring cliche comments for the media and racing interviews, and so on). If we judge by that, they cannot be perceived as leaders (as in one facctor of being charismatic). As I've said, only Kimi seems to have such genuine stance, but with him it's more "just let me be so I can play with my toys" than charisma.

 

My case in point: an example of father and son in F1 - Keke and Nico. Nico is currently being a mercedes errand boy, while Keke was much more charismatic. Not the most charismatic F1 diver ever, but above current F1 field.

 

And before someone sas that Vettel didn't act in accordance with teams demands in the Multi21 case, and therefore showed charisma - dead wrong. Defiance isn't in itself indicator of charisma. If anything, that evend burried the little charisma Vettel had. Why? Because, if anything, people don't apprechiate insincere, two faced behaviour. If Vettel said on the radio "No, tell the Aussie I'm gonna give him a run for his money", and has beaten him on track, he would be perceived as much more charismatic than he is now.

[noikeee]

The split personality thing is true, as well as the fact he keeps most private things private, but I think the fact he's winning everything in a very boring way also doesn't help the public perception of his "charisma". People attach the fact that he's making the races boring to the man himself being boring.

[noikeee]

In many ways it's not just 'not being nice', it's being controversial and sometimes even outright bad, because that is interesting. To an extent I agree with you about Vettel 'revealing' the ruthless side of his personality, which is obviously there, but I'm not 100% sure he really understands himself yet - he strikes me sometimes as a kid who's missed out on one or two lessons on growing up and genuinely doesn't quite get what he's done wrong in a particular situation or how to put it right. The man, like most of them, is obviously no angel, but I'm not convinced he's calculatingly two-faced or manipulative either.

 

Probably true. These guys that reach the top these days, they've been groomed by corporations to become winning machines on the technical side since they were, like, 8 or 10 year olds. I'm thinking beyond Vettel of Hamilton as well - these are lads that have been living and breathing nothing but racing all their lives, and shielded from the outside world. And then they're thrown into superstardom all of a sudden at record young ages, no wonder they don't come off as a complete, rounded off personality - they're still trying to work out who they are as adults.

 

/end of pseudo-psy-talk

Edited by noikeee, 29 September 2013 - 00:46.

[Kart15]

I think I would say the same even though I am a Hamilton fan. Sebastian seems a nice guy generally even if some of his actions on track I have not agreed with. I'd definitely go for a pint with the lad. If he didn't pay though, that would be a different story!!

 

 

But Vettel doesn´t drink. Once he said he likes to drink ONLY full fat milk. Ridiculous.

[CrucialXtreme]

cha·ris·ma   (k-rzm)n.  pl.  cha·ris·ma·ta (-m-t) 1.

a. A rare personal quality attributed to leaders who arouse fervent popular devotion and enthusiasm.

b. Personal magnetism or charm:

 

 

Anyone who knows me knows I'm a Ferrari fan and an Alonso supporter, but also a fair guy. To me Vettel embodies both A & B of the definition above. Of course other drivers have charisma too, but to say Seb doesn't have it honestly blows my mind. I've seen a few interviews with the guy and everyone I see make me like and respect him a bit more each time. This is subjective of course and only a personal opinion. I'm just confused how others don't see it.

Edited by CrucialXtreme, 29 September 2013 - 01:09.