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#1 sennafan24

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 12:50

Thought it be fun to see what people thought of this series.

 

The past two episodes have featured Alain Prost and Eddie Irvine. I think we could have a decent discussion about them. Here are some talking points.

 

Prost

 

- Was close with Gilles, something I never knew

 

- Still denies running Senna off in Japan 1989.

 

- Tripped himself up ever so slightly, he claimed that he started having thoughts about Honda favoring Senna in 1989, this is in contrast to what he told his pal Nigel Roebuck in 1988. Prost also did not touch on his story that a Honda bigwig told him years later that Senna was favored, I thought that would be a perfect time to mention it. Mind you, I have never seen official confirmation of that story from Prost or otherwise, so it could just be invented?

 

- Claimed Mansell was more interested in golfing rather than being a number 1 driver at Ferrari, I believe Prost on that one.

 

- Said some really nice things about Senna post-retirement

 

Irvine

 

- Said Rubens was spoiled at Jordan, and had a bad attitude. Wrongly claimed he beat Rubens, which was not true at least in terms of points

 

- Admitted Schumi was just faster than him, and a better driver

 

- Is not a fan of DRS and other modern driver aids, says overtaking should be done more on merit

 

- Says the 3 greats of his generation are Senna, Schumi and Newey

 

- Made Jaguar out to be a complete clusterfuck.

 

Both I thought came across really well, and both are worth a watch if you have not seen them yet.


Edited by sennafan24, 26 September 2013 - 12:51.


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#2 Oho

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 13:02

Irvine

 

 

- Says the 3 greats of his generation are Senna, Schumi and Newey

 

Yeah Irvine was deluded enough to think he was second only to Schumacher.



#3 sennafan24

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 13:05

Yeah Irvine was deluded enough to think he was second only to Schumacher.

Did he though?

 

He said, Schumi was the only teammate to beat him, but he never compared himself directly to other drivers as such.



#4 Tonka

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 13:12

Prost was a great manipulator, I have problems in believing a word he says.


Edited by Tonka, 26 September 2013 - 13:13.


#5 Jon83

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 13:14

Not sure I'd really call Irvine a legend of F1.



#6 sennafan24

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 13:27

Prost was a great manipulator, I have problems in believing a word he says.

I like Prost and admire him as a driver, but the claim about the engines from 1988 is something that got a bee in my bonnet. The reason why Senna went from 7-4 in wins was mainly due to differential problems in two straight races, meaning Prost got back to 7-6, before Senna sealed the deal in Japan. Not because like Roebuck claimed that Honda was fiddling with engines to suit their best interests.

 

I do believe Prost 100% about Mansell though.

 

I would hardly call Irvine a "legend" either, but he is a great interview.


Edited by sennafan24, 26 September 2013 - 13:29.


#7 Wander

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 13:28

Where is Taki Inoue feature?

#8 eronrules

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 13:40

Not sure I'd really call Irvine a legend of F1.

my thoughts exactly when they aired the trailer post singapore gp. there are buckets of other racers alive to do a feature on, heck grab DC while you're at it, or EJ.  :p



#9 sennafan24

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 13:49

my thoughts exactly when they aired the trailer post singapore gp. there are buckets of other racers alive to do a feature on, heck grab DC while you're at it, or EJ.  :p

BBC may prevent those from being done.

 

They have got Lauda and JV coming up it looks like.



#10 eronrules

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 14:03

JV .... yaaaaaay!!! make it happen, and make him play one of his songs on the show as well. and specially ask his thoughts on Kimi and Hamilton  :p

 

+yes+fav+pokemon+fav+region+_8bcc2156524



#11 David1976

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 14:12

Where is Taki Inoue feature?

 

YES!  THAT I WANT TO SEE!



#12 rosscamero

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 14:22

I really enjoyed the Berger interview but the Gordon Murray episode was the most interesting.

There are so many drivers / team personell who are not legends but have fantastic stories to share, I hope they are do a lot more. It is hard to decide who is a legend and who is not in terms of F1 but I am sure a guy like Jean Alesi or Heinz Harold Frentzen have more than an hour worth of interesting stories to tell.

#13 John Player

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 14:37

I can't believe Prost is still denying Suzuka 1989



#14 Peat

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 14:38

In my opinion, you left out the most revealing content of that show.

He states that the 'Michael built a team around him' thing is BS and a complete myth. He says that because Michael was such a great driver, the confidence that brought to a team was very attractive and Jean Todt (the real driving force behind the success) put the right people in the right places. 

He says that Ross Brawn 'was no genius' and that Rory Byrne 'was no Adrian Newey' - But Michael didn't need the best car in order to win.

He also went onto to say that as contempory engineers began to understand tyre and spring dynamics more completely, they were able to build cars that were progressively easier to drive, and that's how Schumacher lost his edge over everyone else.

I take alot of what Eddie Irvine says with a pinch of salt, but it was certainly entertaining.

 

The Berger & Murray ones were excellent too.



#15 sennafan24

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 14:41

In my opinion, you left out the most revealing content of that show.

He states that the 'Michael built a team around him' thing is BS and a complete myth. He says that because Michael was such a great driver, the confidence that brought to a team was very attractive and Jean Todt (the real driving force behind the success) put the right people in the right places. 

He says that Ross Brawn 'was no genius' and that Rory Byrne 'was no Adrian Newey' - But Michael didn't need the best car in order to win.

He also went onto to say that as contempory engineers began to understand tyre and spring dynamics more completely, they were able to build cars that were progressively easier to drive, and that's how Schumacher lost his edge over everyone else.
 

Damm it forgot that.

 

Yes that was interesting insight.



#16 sennafan24

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 14:41

I can't believe Prost is still denying Suzuka 1989

You are not the only one!



#17 ebc

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 14:44

 I thought that both episodes were very interesting particularly Eddie Irvine's, he is a pretty funny guy and I like to hear his views on the sport.

 

Irvine may not be a legendary talent but he is to many people an archetypal racing driver and he did play a big part in the story of F1 in the late 90s so was a worthy addition to the series.

 

When he said he beat Barrichello I don't think he meant in points but rather in performance, there was a reason Ferrari went with him after all.

 

I look forward to Villeneuve's as he is similar to Irvine in that he says what he thinks and it should be very interesting.



#18 Oho

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 14:50

Did he though?

 

He said, Schumi was the only teammate to beat him, but he never compared himself directly to other drivers as such.

Yes he did at the time...



#19 Cult

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 14:54

Schumacher was a long way ahead of the other drivers in the mid-90s.

 

You had Alesi, who was very good in the rain, but the other drivers could not keep up with his relentless race pace. Irvine does have an incentive to overstate Schumacher's performances but his points have been echoed by many others.



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#20 sennafan24

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 15:01

Yes he did at the time...

Fair enough, to be fair it was a depleted field.

 

I would still rate Mika over Irvine, and perhaps D.C, Hill, Rubens and Frentzen also.


Edited by sennafan24, 26 September 2013 - 15:02.


#21 sennafan24

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 15:04

Schumacher was a long way ahead of the other drivers in the mid-90s.

 

That he was, from 1994 he was the clear best driver until around 2003 when he started to wane and Kimi started hitting his stride.

 

Only Mika got anyway near his league.



#22 Cult

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 15:23

Prost may claim that he did not run into Senna on purpose but he turned in about 10-30m too early for the apex so I think it's pretty clear. I think he decided that Senna wasn't going to force his way through this time so ended his title chances.

 

I'd like to believe it was an accident but like Monaco 2006 for Schumacher I have trouble believing two of the most skilful drivers of all-time couldn't navigate a corner they've driven so many times before even slightly acceptably.



#23 alframsey

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 15:32

I wondered why Irvine was on 'F1 Legend'... Surely he isn't a legend? He is barely even memorable.



#24 Tron

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 15:44

I actually feel Prost was hard done by that abortion of a Senna Film.

 

That film totally and wrongfully made him out to be a bad guy, completely blaming him for cheating Senna of the 1989 title, while leaving out the facts of Senna's then stupidity of crashing out most of 1989.

 

Other than that, Prost was a good man, just typically needy as a racing driver which was very apparent by his demand for #1 status at Ferrari during 1990.

 

I still LOL how his mechanics swapped engines from Mansell's car late at night.



#25 PaulTodd

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 15:47

Did he though?

 

He said, Schumi was the only teammate to beat him, but he never compared himself directly to other drivers as such.

No he did. I remember him saying he was the best F1 on the grid after Schumacher.



#26 sennafan24

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 15:49

 while leaving out the facts of Senna's then stupidity of crashing out most of 1989.

 

Sorry I have to disagree there, Senna lost in 1989 mostly due to mechanical failures.

 

He did  get into a few scuffles he could have avoided on track, but mostly he got the rough end of the stick with DNF's. When nothing went wrong in 1989, Senna would beat Prost as evidenced by being 9-1 ahead of Prost when both finished.


Edited by sennafan24, 26 September 2013 - 15:50.


#27 sennafan24

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 15:50

No he did. I remember him saying he was the best F1 on the grid after Schumacher.

Fair enough, I was not aware of that.



#28 SanDiegoGo

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 15:56

Irvine has to big up Scumacher's talent as it makes him look more capable as a driver. He isn't. Back handed remarks about Brawn and Bryne show he's a bitter. This show must be scrapping the bottom of the barrel if Irvine is considered a legend. :rolleyes:



#29 PaulTodd

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 15:57

I actually feel Prost was hard done by that abortion of a Senna Film.

 

That film totally and wrongfully made him out to be a bad guy, completely blaming him for cheating Senna of the 1989 title, while leaving out the facts of Senna's then stupidity of crashing out most of 1989.

 

Other than that, Prost was a good man, just typically needy as a racing driver which was very apparent by his demand for #1 status at Ferrari during 1990.

 

I still LOL how his mechanics swapped engines from Mansell's car late at night.

Senna was in contention for the Title and Prost drove into him and robbed Senna of a chance to win. So we should not blame prost for driving into Senna???? I'm confused.



#30 eronrules

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 16:02

I wondered why Irvine was on 'F1 Legend'... Surely he isn't a legend? He is barely even memorable.

 

:o



#31 eronrules

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 16:04

btw, if anyone interested, here's the episode of Mika Hakkinen on Legends of F1

 



#32 PaulTodd

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 16:04

Fair enough, I was not aware of that.

I'm trying to find info on some of his quotes. I can't find that one but this is quality!

 

http://www.irvtheswe...et/classic.html



#33 Schumacher7

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 16:05

I'd like to see one on Schumi but I'm not sure if he'd really be up for something like that.



#34 sennafan24

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 16:09

I'm trying to find info on some of his quotes. I can't find that one but this is quality!

 

http://www.irvtheswe...et/classic.html

Agreed, thanks for posting that.

 

And no problem I take your word for it  :)



#35 ensign14

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 16:11

I'd like to see one on Schumi but I'm not sure if he'd really be up for something like that.

 

Just tell him they're filming one with Damon Hill, he'll shove him out of the way to get in first.



#36 Tron

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 16:11

Sorry I have to disagree there, Senna lost in 1989 mostly due to mechanical failures.

 

He did  get into a few scuffles he could have avoided on track, but mostly he got the rough end of the stick with DNF's. When nothing went wrong in 1989, Senna would beat Prost as evidenced by being 9-1 ahead of Prost when both finished.

 

Remember Brazil? He shut Berger out on the first corner while the Austrain had the racing line. And Portugal? When he took out an already black flagged Mansell. On both occassions James Hunt said "stupid".

 

Yes, there were mechanical problems, but the Senna film unfairly left those and his clumsy moments out all to blame Prost.

 

 

Senna was in contention for the Title and Prost drove into him and robbed Senna of a chance to win. So we should not blame prost for driving into Senna???? I'm confused.

 

A championship is won across the whole season, not just on one race.

My point is that Senna film made Prost as his only reason to have lost 1989 title, while leaving out a huge chunk as mentioned above.



#37 PaulTodd

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 16:12

 

:o

 

Why Can't we have F1 driver's like that now? I love it :rotfl: he was going mental at the media.



#38 Tron

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 16:12

For those outside of the UK... Where can we see these Sky Legends?

 

Please PM links...



#39 Tron

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 16:15

And please, don't me wrong. I'm a Senna fan, and I'm also frustrated with the Senna film leaving out how he donated victory to Berger in 1991.

 

Other than that, we have to made admit that Prost's legacy made Senna, as it constantly pushed the Brazilian.



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#40 Tron

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 16:16

Why Can't we have F1 driver's like that now? I love it :rotfl: he was going mental at the media.

 

These days unfortunately sponsorships pay the driver's mouths, or else not enough loans are taken out while purchasing energy drinks. ;)



#41 sennafan24

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 16:19

Remember Brazil? He shut Berger out on the first corner while the Austrain had the racing line. And Portugal? When he took out an already black flagged Mansell. On both occassions James Hunt said "stupid".

 

I agree about Prost pushing Senna, and I can not see Senna was not partially to blame for both those incidents, he was a bit too ambitious for his own good on those occasions, the Mansell one I blame Mansell simply because the dozy git should not have been on track.

 

Two incidents in one season though, one of which was caused by a driver racing under a black flag. The other DNF's were all not his fault, if the luck was even Senna would have won handily that year.

 

I do agree that Prost gets demonized a bit too much though.



#42 eronrules

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 16:22

Why Can't we have F1 driver's like that now? I love it :rotfl: he was going mental at the media.

both kimi and sebastian got grilled by FIA for using the S-word, imagine what will happen if they use the F-word ... 3 race ban me thinks

 

but the real reason is obvious to all who watches the simpsons   ;)

 

3rnvk6.jpg



#43 Tron

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 16:23

If the luck was even Senna would have won handily that year.

 

Without a doubt, he would have wrapped it up by Monza.

 

In Mansell's defence, he couldn't see the his number at first as black flagged, and waited it out to see if the decision might have changed.

Still Senna then, why did he had to take out Mansell as well with a impossible move... :(



#44 sennafan24

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 16:29

Without a doubt, he would have wrapped it up by Monza.

 

In Mansell's defence, he couldn't see the his number at first as black flagged, and waited it out to see if the decision might have changed.

Still Senna then, why did he had to take out Mansell as well with a impossible move... :(

Like I said, he was overly ambitious.

 

I am not going to say that Senna was not at least some to blame for both incidents you mentioned, it was a chink in the greatest's driver ever armor that lasted until around 1991 he would get himself into needless collisions, come 1991-1993 he had stopped that to such a degree.


Edited by sennafan24, 26 September 2013 - 16:29.


#45 Callisto

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 16:29

Irvine also said Michael was not good at setting the car up and Rubens did the donkey work and that's why he not too good in his comeback at Merc

#46 PaulTodd

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 16:45

both kimi and sebastian got grilled by FIA for using the S-word, imagine what will happen if they use the F-word ... 3 race ban me thinks

 

but the real reason is obvious to all who watches the simpsons   ;)

 

3rnvk6.jpg

Swearing is one thing but Senna put forward a valid argument while going off the rails.

 

When Kimi dropped the "S bomb" I don't think it would of been a huge issue but then Seb acting like the kid at school following every trend could not wait to swear. I'm sure seb used F as well 



#47 ebc

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 19:11

Irvine has to big up Scumacher's talent as it makes him look more capable as a driver. He isn't. Back handed remarks about Brawn and Bryne show he's a bitter. This show must be scrapping the bottom of the barrel if Irvine is considered a legend. :rolleyes:

 

What he said about Brawn and Byrne is harsh but neither of them are up there with the likes of Chapman and Newey which is what I think he meant.

 

The series is not scrapping the bottom of the barrel at all, It is on tv to entertain people and Irvine is very entertaining and gave a good interview.



#48 Longtimefan

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 19:23

I'd love to see F1 legends programme interviewing F1 legends that weren't drivers.

 

Jo Ramirez for one, the guy is a walking legend and he must have 100,000 awesome stories.

 

others also, like

 

Gordon Murray, Ron Dennis, Adrian Newey, Rory Byrne.



#49 D.M.N.

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 20:58

I'd love to see F1 legends programme interviewing F1 legends that weren't drivers.

 

Jo Ramirez for one, the guy is a walking legend and he must have 100,000 awesome stories.

 

others also, like

 

Gordon Murray, Ron Dennis, Adrian Newey, Rory Byrne.

They've already done Gordon Murray.

 

Edit - And Max Mosley in the non-drivers category.



#50 Cool Beans

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 23:40

 

F1 Legends:

...

Irvine

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