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Talented F1 drivers that never won a world championship.


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#1 Tron

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 20:32

The harsh law for any sport is that not everyone can be a winner, and with motor racing it's crueller as the right car and the right team is needed as well a bit of luck.

 

With the present F1 grid locking out the top drives with world champions, there's risk more talented drivers will never win a world title.

 

Of past greats there's Gilles Villeneuve, although death robbed him, then there's Stirling Moss - the most famous one, and also one of the most loved by the Tifosi, Jean Alesi.

 

Is F1 risking to add Nico Rosberg to that list?



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#2 DarthWillie

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 20:49

Pironi, the Angelis, Montoya perhaps,



#3 P0inters

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 20:52

Clay Regazzoni



#4 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 20:56

I would not have Regazzoni, de Angelis and Montoya on my list.

 

Moss

Ickx

Reutemann

Alboreto

 

:cool:



#5 luispaulob

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 20:56

Rubens Barrichello

 

José Carlos Pace



#6 Anderis

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 20:59

I find thread title a bit misleading. I consider majority of F1 grid as very talented drivers. For example, Hamilton or Vettel may be a tiny bit more talented than Sutil or Pic, but I still consider Sutil and Pic talented. Even if you have plenty of financial backing from the beginning of the career, there are many others who also have, so to be in F1 instead of all of them and be within a couple of seconds of the very best drivers in the world you need to have a big talent.

 

But I reckon you mean the best drivers who failed to score a single WDC during his career? Yeah, Gilles Villeneuve and Moss seem to be obvious choices. Von Trips and Cevert were looking good for a title if not their fatal accidents (pretty much like Villeneuve). Frentzen also had a couple of very impressive seasons, but he failed to deliver when he's got his chance.

 

If Rosberg doesn't luck with circumstances, he may well be added to this list. The same goes with Hulkenberg, who, I have no doubt, is capable of race wins in right car, but wheter he gets an opportunity for WDC during his career is another matter. But well, both have around 10 years to earn their WDC so it's quite early to speculate about this.



#7 Kyo

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 21:07

Depend on how much talent you are talking about. With some few exception they all are talented.

 

Anyway, the only ones that I do rate comparable with some other drivers that are 2 or 3 times WDC are Moss and Gilles



#8 Otaku

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 21:07

Villeneuve, Reuteman, Moss and Regazzoni are the top 4 on my list.



#9 Atreiu

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 21:09

Berger.

He could have easily had a Mansell 1992 season (maybe less brilliant but still title winning) in the right circumstances.



#10 Otaku

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 21:14

Berger.

He could have easily had a Mansell 1992 season (maybe less brilliant but still title winning) in the right circumstances.

 

But you could say that about almost any driver. I think the topic is more about those drivers that you knew were above the rest talent-wise, and you could say "He will be world champion" but for several reasons, they never made it. There are not many drivers like that imho, and Berger, Alboretto, Alesi and several others that were named on the thread don't cut it from my point of view. Yes, they were good, but that's it. They were not awesome.



#11 ezequiel

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 21:17

Moss, Reutemann, Ickx.



#12 JHSingo

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 21:18

Robert Kubica, easily.



#13 metz

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 21:21

Without a competitive car, some very talented F1 drivers never even won a race.

Heidfeld comes to mind, with sh!t cars and 13 podiums.

 

Others, like Montoya or Ralf just get out early.

Let's hope guys like Hulk or Sutil stick around for better gear.



#14 garoidb

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 21:23

Felipe Massa. Could easily have been Lewis Hamilton.



#15 ensign14

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 21:39

Of those that had genuine shots at the title, the only ones who deserved titles and missed out were probably Moss, Gurney and Gilles.  Had they peaked at different times Ickx, Peterson and Gonzalez would also surely have done so. 

 

Then you have those who never had the chance to show what they could have done, which are impossible to call, but one name stands out.  Tony Brise.  Lapped a team-mate who went on to be world champ.



#16 Amphicar

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 21:48

One obvious name that hasn't yet been mentioned is Bruce McLaren



#17 Bloggsworth

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 22:09

No-one has been unluckier than Chris Amon?



#18 Amphicar

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 22:22

No-one has been unluckier than Chris Amon?

Certainly the most talented driver never to have won a Formula 1 race - but quite a leap to claim that he could/should have been a World Champion (if that's what you meant).



#19 ensign14

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 22:24

Certainly the most talented driver never to have won a Formula 1 race - but quite a leap to claim that he could/should have been a World Champion (if that's what you meant).

 

*psst* International Trophy 1970, Argentine Grand Prix 1971...



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#20 Atreiu

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 22:27

But you could say that about almost any driver. I think the topic is more about those drivers that you knew were above the rest talent-wise, and you could say "He will be world champion" but for several reasons, they never made it. There are not many drivers like that imho, and Berger, Alboretto, Alesi and several others that were named on the thread don't cut it from my point of view. Yes, they were good, but that's it. They were not awesome.

 

Not really.

 

Berger proved his worth in the 80s against Senna, Prost, Piquet and Mansell (plus the rest of the field). It's enough for me to put him in the higher group of drivers with wins and no WDC. In 1989 he was paired with Mansell, but there wasn't a race both finished. Still, in his 3 scores he was 2nd, 1st and 2nd, which basically puts him on par with Mansell's results from whenever his car held up. And then Mansell hit jackpot in 1992.

 

IMO, he is clearly above the average cut of race winners without titles.

 

PS: this is only my opinion, I'm sure you guys have valid reasons for your nominees.


Edited by Atreiu, 26 September 2013 - 22:33.


#21 Andrew Hope

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 22:29

Pedro Rodriguez.

 

Pedro-rodiguez-Spa-1970.jpg


Edited by Andrew Hope, 26 September 2013 - 22:30.


#22 Amphicar

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 22:33

*psst* International Trophy 1970, Argentine Grand Prix 1971...

Quite right - I meant "never to have won a Championship F1 race"



#23 sennafan24

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 22:50

In years I can comment on, I am only 26

 

JPM - a naturally gifted driver, if a few things went his way in 2003 he would have been Champ

 

Alesi - If he had gone to Williams he would have been

 

Rubens - If Schumi got injured in the years they were teammates other than 2003 and 2005, it is likely Rubens would have been Champ. 

 

 

Rosberg is pending



#24 Tron

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 22:53

Tony Brise.  Lapped a team-mate who went on to be world champ.

 

Thanks for this. Had to look him up, and found it interesting who he was, and how he unfortunately died with G. Hill.

 

Is Alan Jones the lapped driver you've mentioned?



#25 Tron

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 23:01

Berger proved his worth in the 80s against Senna, Prost, Piquet and Mansell (plus the rest of the field). It's enough for me to put him in the higher group of drivers with wins and no WDC. In 1989 he was paired with Mansell, but there wasn't a race both finished. Still, in his 3 scores he was 2nd, 1st and 2nd, which basically puts him on par with Mansell's results from whenever his car held up. And then Mansell hit jackpot in 1992.

 

IMO, he is clearly above the average cut of race winners without titles.

 

 

Agree about Berger. Whenever he retired in 89, he was always fighting for the podium.

 

As well, he beat Alboreto for 3 years in a row.

 

But against Senna at his best, it somewhat tame his aggressiveness...

 


Alesi - If he had gone to Williams he would have been

 

Rubens - If Schumi got injured in the years they were teammates other than 2003 and 2005, it is likely Rubens would have been Champ. 

 

 

Alesi chose Ferrari at the time as it was a title fighting team while Williams were having a hiccup year, and also because he wanted to race against Prost. Pity, as Frank wanted him at all costs...

 

I'm certain if Rubens was in place of Irvine in 1999, he could have won that title. Unfortunately for Rubens he joined Ferrari while they had a better driver, and Brawn came to be when he past his prime.


Edited by Tron, 26 September 2013 - 23:41.


#26 weareracing

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 23:08

Stirling Moss, Bruce McLaren & Gilles Villeneuve would be my "A" listers



#27 KavB

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 23:10

Nick Heidfeld.

 

He may not have been the outright quickest driver in F1 but he was able to bring in the points which is all that matters. Even during one of his worst seasons, 2008, he managed to to finish just 15 points behind Kubica who was considered by many to be driver of the year. I kind of wished he got dropped by BMW for 2009 because he had an offer with Honda and I think he would have beaten Button to the title. A shame he left F1 without a single win.



#28 4MEN

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 23:44

Stefan Bellof



#29 Tron

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Posted 26 September 2013 - 23:58

Alex Zanardi. Bad timing as he had his chance with Williams, but it was with a midfield car still coughing crises while waiting for BMW.

 

Then there's Alessandro Nannini, the man that said no to Ferrari as he believed Benetton would have won the world championship... and he was right as they did 4 years later...

And it was his helicopter accident that left his 91 Benetton seat vacant to evantually be pluck by a certain young German.



#30 teejay

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 00:03

Montoya, Zanardi are my favourites, but there are plenty others that we would never evern know about due to circumstance.



#31 Tron

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 00:08

No one has mentioned Webber yet. :p



#32 George Costanza

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 00:26

No one has mentioned Webber yet. :p

 

There is no doubt that Mark is one the most unluckiest drivers in Formula 1 history. Him and Chris Amon.


Edited by George Costanza, 27 September 2013 - 00:26.


#33 Kingshark

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 00:38

1. Sir Stirling Moss

2. Carlos Reutemann

3. Gilles Villeneuve

4. Francois Cevert

5. Wolfgang Von Trips

6. Peter Collins

7. Felipe Massa

8. Juan Pablo Montoya

9. Gerhard Berger

10. David Coulthard

 

Honorable mentions: Dan Gurney, Ronnie Peterson, Ricardo Patrese, Rubens Barrichello, Jean Alesi, Heinz Harold Frentzen, Ralf Schumacher, and Mark Webber.


Edited by Kingshark, 27 September 2013 - 03:46.


#34 Kingshark

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 00:40

Is F1 risking to add Nico Rosberg to that list?

 

Rosberg is pending

 

Don't count out Rosberg yet, he's younger than either Button or Raikkonen were when they won their championship.

 

Although if he doesn't win a WDC, I think we can safely add Nico Rosberg as among the best drivers to never win a championship.



#35 Tron

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 00:42

1. Sir Stirling Moss

2. Carlos Reutemann

3. Gilles Villeneuve

4. Francois Cevert

5. Wolfgang Von Trips

6. Peter Collins

7. Felipe Massa

8. Juan Pablo Montoya

9. Gerhard Berger

10. David Coulthard

 

Honorable mentions: Ricardo Patrese, Rubens Barrichello, Ralf Schumacher, and Mark Webber.

Surprised you left out Alesi?



#36 tifosi

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 01:11

Wow, I cannot believe all you so-called fans have left off the most obvious answer, Lella Lombardi



#37 ElJefe

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 01:29

Gilles Villeneuve (If he had a WDC to his name people would be speaking about him in the same way as they speak about Senna now), José Carlos Pace (shame he lost his life prematurely, definitely an exceptional talent), Reutemann (he took racing with his head to a new level), Stefan Bellof (same story with Pace) and JPM (perhaps one of the biggest tragedies of the modern era, that someone with so much flair and natural ability failed to win a WDC).



#38 Kingshark

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 01:35

Surprised you left out Alesi?

 

Good call.

 

I don't think he's quite top 10 though, but Jean is definitely a honorable mention among talented drivers who never won a WDC.


Edited by Kingshark, 27 September 2013 - 01:36.


#39 CSquared

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 01:47

Ronnie Peterson is being mentioned far too little in this thread. 



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#40 Andretti Fan

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 02:14

Ronnie Peterson is being mentioned far too little in this thread. 

Absolutely! I'd have to rate him with Moss, Collins, Gurney, and Villenuve.



#41 Watkins74

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 02:46

Didier Pironi



#42 gillesthegenius

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 03:38

1) GV
2) Pironi
3) Von Tripps
4) Moss
5) Peitersen
6) Alesi
7) HHF

#43 aray

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 03:42

among the one i seen(since 1998),Montoya......



#44 chrisj

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 03:50

A lot of French drivers in the '70's & early '80s were pretty good: Laffite, Tambay, Arnoux, Jabouille, Depailler, and Pironi for sure.



#45 Marc Sproule

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 03:51

Gilles

 



#46 jals99

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 05:59

Jarno Trulli



#47 LionAlex

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 06:11

Jarno Trulli

I waited for it, Igor :)


Edited by LionAlex, 27 September 2013 - 06:12.


#48 moistabduction

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 06:31

Massa pre-accident was one of the top 5 drivers and very capable of winning one.

 

Rober Kubica would have been huge, but I guess there might be comeback in the works, so who knows


Edited by moistabduction, 27 September 2013 - 06:33.


#49 Zoetrope

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 06:52

Robert Kubica, easily.

:up:



#50 ensign14

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 07:15

Thanks for this. Had to look him up, and found it interesting who he was, and how he unfortunately died with G. Hill.

 

Is Alan Jones the lapped driver you've mentioned?

 

Yes.  At the Dutch GP Brise qualified 7th, Jones 17th.  Brise outqualified Jones by an average of 7 positions in their time together.

 

Stefan Bellof

 

No.  Did no better than Brundle at Tyrrell.  Beneficiary of nil mortuis nisi bonum.

 

Alex Zanardi. Bad timing as he had his chance with Williams, but it was with a midfield car still coughing crises while waiting for BMW.

 

Zanardi?  May as well throw in Dave Walker.