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Strongest 2014 pairing


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#1 HoldenRT

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 08:40

Toto Wolff says that Nico and Lewis are the strongest pairing because they have a good history together of being harmonious.

 

Commentators have said lately, that it shows well for Nico how well he has done vs Lewis, in terms of his own stock.  And it also makes Schumacher look better by comparison (in retrospect).

 

This wasn't a surprise to me, because to me most F1 drivers are quite close to each other and Nico has always seemed as fast as anyone else.  However, now with Lewis beside him it seems more certain.

 

We all know how fast Lewis is, and Nico beats him on occasion and it's quite a good battle between them.

 

So.. I guess this IS a very strong pairing.  And the other to compare with would be Alonso and Kimi?  Alonso's stock is very high, and Kimi.. it will be interesting to see how he goes.  They could definately be the strongest pairing.  And if Kimi beats Alonso it'd seem almost certain that they are.  It's hard to say for sure since it's still 2013 but yeah.

 

I have to agree with Wolff, but I think for a different reason.  They are younger.  They are of similar age, younger, very quick.  They aren't rookies, they have experience, but still young enough to be climbing towards their peak.  Younger drivers are usually better at adapting to new rules or changes as well.  It's fun to think about though because they are all good drivers.

 

For a fictional pairing, I think Seb and Lewis would be the strongest pairing.  But yet, I'd rate Alonso as the best #1 option for a team, the best overall driver. It'f be interesting if Ferrari DO have the strongest pairing, and Kimi beats Alonso.  Could anyone imagine Alonso supporting anyone in a #2 role, in the latter half of a season?

 

I guess where Merc are strong, is the longterm future.

 

All in my opinion of course.  Who do you think?



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#2 InfectedPumpkin

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 08:44

In cooperation terms, strongest pairing is Lewis and Nico.

In pure speed and skill in my opinion Kimi and Fernando will be slighty stronger pairing.



#3 GSiebert

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 08:46

Vettel - Ricciardo will be the pairing with the most titles, so they're the strongest.



#4 Wander

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 09:01

I rate Alonso and Räikkönen as the best two drivers in F1 right now anyway, not just the "strongest pairing".



#5 sopa

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 09:01

Yeah it is interesting. I mean emotionally it is easy to shout "of course Alonso-Raikkonen by far", but when you think about it there may not be much between them. Rosberg isn't beating or matching Hamilton over a season, but being close and collects a solid % of his points. Same thing could apply to Raikkonen. It would be a tall order for him to match Alonso, yet he can be close and collect good number of team-mates points, like Rosberg for now. So in the end those two pairings may end up being somewhat similar.



#6 apoka

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 09:24

Just throwing in some numbers for fun.

 

Most successful (not strongest, I know) top team pairings in terms of race wins:

 

Alonso (32) + Kimi (20) = 52

Vettel (33) + Ricciardo (0) = 33

Hamilton (22) + Rosberg (3) = 25

Button (15) + Perez (0) = 15

 

Most successful top team pairings in terms of podiums:

 

Alonso (94) + Kimi (76) = 170

Hamilton (54) + Rosberg (9) = 63

Vettel (56) + Ricciardo (0) = 56

Button (49) + Perez (3) = 52

 

Most successful pairings in terms of points scored since 2010 (introduction of new points system):

 

Alonso (974) + Kimi* (356) = 1330

Hamilton (808) + Rosberg (440) = 1248

Vettel (1176) + Ricciardo** (28) = 1204

Button (726) + Perez** (102) = 828

 

* only since 2012

** only since 2011


Edited by apoka, 27 September 2013 - 09:35.


#7 apoka

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 09:30

Vettel - Ricciardo will be the pairing with the most titles, so they're the strongest.

 

Kimi and Alonso will have more vice championship titles than all other drivers combined though.



#8 InfectedPumpkin

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 09:41

Vettel - Ricciardo will be the pairing with the most titles, so they're the strongest.

 

Sure. Last year Schumacher - Rosberg pairing had most tiles as well and they were definitely not strongest pairing, so you are obviously wrong,



#9 DampMongoose

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 09:42

Strongest pairing for winning a WDC = Vettel and Ricciardo

 

Strongest pairing for winning WCC = Hamilton and Rosberg

 

Strongest pairing for individual race wins = Alonso and Raikkonen



#10 GSiebert

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 09:56

Sure. Last year Schumacher - Rosberg pairing had most tiles as well and they were definitely not strongest pairing, so you are obviously wrong,

Damned, you got me, you're so smart. :stoned:



#11 thuGG

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 09:58

ALO and RAI, followed closely by HAM and ROS, then VET and RIC.



#12 sv401

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 10:19

It seems everyone is writing off Ricciardo. I would not be very surprised if he in fact ends up being the most competitive relative to his team-mate, even if not immediately in the first races. Save for the occasional odd race, Hamilton is already starting to dominate Rosberg since Canada, who in my opinion will fill the role of a strong no.2 in the future, rather than an equal no.1. Regarding Alonso vs. Raikkonen, it will be an unpopular opinion, but I think the Spaniard will have the upper hand at Ferrari, by a similar margin as Hamilton vs. Rosberg.



#13 stillOrange

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 10:31

It seems everyone is writing off Ricciardo. I would not be very surprised if he in fact ends up being the most competitive relative to his team-mate, even if not immediately in the first races. Save for the occasional odd race, Hamilton is already starting to dominate Rosberg since Canada, who in my opinion will fill the role of a strong no.2 in the future, rather than an equal no.1. Regarding Alonso vs. Raikkonen, it will be an unpopular opinion, but I think the Spaniard will have the upper hand at Ferrari, by a similar margin as Hamilton vs. Rosberg.


I don't think anybody is writing him off. He has to prove himself against Vettel to be put in same bracket as Rosberg and IMO much more to be on par with Kimi.
Comparing RBR pairing in 2014 to the ones of Ferrari and Mercedes is a bit far fetched.

#14 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 10:40

Please be very careful getting side tracked, the topic is about the strength of the driver pairings, it is not about the strength of the individual drivers in those pairing compared with each other.

 

Edit: This is not to be a driver vs driver thread

 

From the forum rules

Driver vs driver threads are only welcome for team mates where a reasonable assessment of their respective abilities can be gauged. Other comparison threads which pit driver against driver for no apparent reason are unwelcome.

 

 

There are separate threads for Team mate comparisons.



#15 SealTheDiffuser

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 10:41

Hamilton+Rosberg+MercedesPowertrain+MercedesCar=No1 of 2014

 

no Chance for the very good pairung ALO/RAI with their unefficient Ferrari V6.

 

 

...ok only drivers:

 

ALO/RAI

HAM/ROS

VET/RIC

MAL/BOT

HUL/GRO

SUT/DIR

BUT/PER


Edited by SealTheDiffuser, 27 September 2013 - 10:43.


#16 sv401

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 10:43

I don't think anybody is writing him off. He has to prove himself against Vettel to be put in same bracket as Rosberg and IMO much more to be on par with Kimi.
Comparing RBR pairing in 2014 to the ones of Ferrari and Mercedes is a bit far fetched.

 

You have no evidence that Ricciardo will not be as good in 2014 as Rosberg or Raikkonen. So, it is not "far fetched" to speculate that he might actually be good (after all, that is likely why Red Bull chose him, and not some nonsensical conspiracy which is far fetched), there is just not enough information available to a casual fan to decide either way.



#17 stillOrange

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 10:58

You have no evidence that Ricciardo will not be as good in 2014 as Rosberg or Raikkonen. So, it is not "far fetched" to speculate that he might actually be good (after all, that is likely why Red Bull chose him, and not some nonsensical conspiracy which is far fetched), there is just not enough information available to a casual fan to decide either way.

If you can't see any evidence of the gap between Vettel, Raikkonen, Alonso, Hamilton, Rosberg and Ricciardo (however big or small the gap is) then there is no discussion and we will have to agree to disagree. I'm not a fortune teller and can only base my opinion on where Ricciardo is now and he isn't yet on the same level as others mentioned. But I hope and expect him to get there at some point.
In my opinion Ferrari will have strongest lineup, followed by Mercedes and RBR.

#18 SteF1an

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 10:59

Strongest pairing in pure speed (qualy) Rosberg and Hamilton.

On sunday Alonso and Raikkonen.



#19 Jimisgod

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 11:04

Who has two world champions? There's the answer.



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#20 DampMongoose

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 11:06

Jimi, as someone pointed out earlier quite succinctly, the number of WDC's the pairing has is not a good measure in all cases!



#21 sv401

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 11:13

If you can't see any evidence of the gap between Vettel, Raikkonen, Alonso, Hamilton, Rosberg and Ricciardo (however big or small the gap is) then there is no discussion and we will have to agree to disagree.

 

Unlike some others, I am at least capable of admitting what I do not know, rather than stating a biased opinion as a fact. But since you apparently know everything, why not educate others, and show what evidence you have, as well as list the gaps between these drivers (e.g. "Raikkonen is 0.2 to 0.35s faster than Ricciardo, because (insert detailed explanation)"). If you cannot, then your arrogant and condescending attitude is not justified.

 

I'm not a fortune teller and can only base my opinion on where Ricciardo is now and he isn't yet on the same level as others mentioned.

 

And you are sure of that based on what ? He is not winning with a Toro Rosso ? Not dominating a team-mate you do not know enough about either ?

 

But I hope and expect him to get there at some point.

 

So, why not in 2014, with already more than 2 years of F1 experience ? For comparison, the same year in Vettel's career was 2010, and 2003 for Raikkonen (who lost to Heidfeld in 2001).


Edited by sv401, 27 September 2013 - 11:24.


#22 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 11:50

For the sake of the thread a clarification:

 

Firstly please familiarise yourselves with the rules. If you feel the need to discuss or question moderation please use PMs, do not discuss moderation in the forum.

 

While it is difficult not to exclude the abilities of the individual drivers in relation to their team mates and what they can contribute to the partnership this in not a thread for discussing Lewis vs Nico or Daniel vs Seb, the discussion cannot get hung up on a driver vs driver discussion. As long as the main discussion is the strongest driver pairing the thread stays open, if it gets hung up on driver vs driver it gets closed. A bit of leeway will be given but don't take advantage.



#23 Raven8

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 12:13

Depends on the car as always. If RBR has another rocketship uit's game over for the rest, better drivers or not



#24 undersquare

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 12:17

Sebi is perfectly in tune with his car.  Really they are one.  The combined intelligence that goes into that combination is supreme atm, and I expect that to continue next year in terms of compatibility.  It'll take Ricci a long time to get near that level I think, whatever his talent.

 

Lewis is still learning his new car, with FRICS and everything else. I expect next year's to suit him better, then IMO he'll be more consistent and distinctly better than Nico who has the speed but not the weird head that the very top dogs have.  But I suspect being No2 to Lewis will take the pressure off Nico and let him drive really well.

 

Nando has a whisker less pace than Lewis and Sebi, I reckon, but fantastic intensity.  Kimi has fantastic pace but a bit less intensity.

 

Hmmm... I dunno.  If I were a TP with a Red Bull I'd have to go SV+DR.  With a random car...I think I'd JUST decide to save some salary to put into car development and go with the younger ages: Lewis and Nico.  

 

But it's tantalising  :smoking:



#25 JDeRosa

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Posted 27 September 2013 - 12:27

I'd base it on the following....

 

All cars being equal, Alonso/Kimi is the strongest pairing. Not in terms of WDCs as obviously Seb will have his 4th title by the end of this year and Alonso/Kimi will have 3 between them. But the question was which 'strongest pairing' ... i.e. two drivers, not just one. If all the cars were built exactly the same, I believe Alonso/Kimi would be the winningest drivers for sure.