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Is RB using a traction control system?


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#51 zapppa83

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 08:50

They are emulating the blown diffuser effect they enjoyed in 2011. 

 

Nothing illegal, and definitely no TC. They're just better at developing the diffuser than the rest. 

 

Since the blown diffuser greatly improves downforce (by more than half a second), they were clearly miles better than the rest at a high-downforce circuit like Singapore. 

Developing better the diffuser can't give 2 secs per lap



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#52 Tron

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 09:01

When was the last time any driver gave the field a sudden 2 secs a lap on a dry track?

 

We've seen it in the rain for obvious reasons, but aside the Willaims of 92, I don't recall this from happening since then?

 

Regardless, until proven guilty, I'm believing it was a matter of Redbull and Vettel just getting it 100% right on set up and mental focus, strange occurance but happened.

 

Still Minardi is not a fool...



#53 Cyanide

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 09:03

Developing better the diffuser can't give 2 secs per lap

 

Obviously it's not only the diffuser, but it plays a big part. Ted Kravitz was saying back in 2010 that RBR were the first to develop this idea and it gave them at least 0.5 sec advantage. The rest have been playing catch-up ever since and it was clear that nobody would reduce that gap anytime soon. 

 

After the ban on blown diffusers, it was only a matter of time until they figured out how to recreate the same effect through a gas pedal trick - which is legal, btw. 

 

Other advantages are obviously Vettel's driving + the car as an entire package is formidable. There's not just one component in there that gives the car's speed. 



#54 zapppa83

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 09:08

Obviously it's not only the diffuser, but it plays a big part. Ted Kravitz was saying back in 2010 that RBR were the first to develop this idea and it gave them at least 0.5 sec advantage. The rest have been playing catch-up ever since and it was clear that nobody would reduce that gap anytime soon. 

 

After the ban on blown diffusers, it was only a matter of time until they figured out how to recreate the same effect through a gas pedal trick - which is legal, btw. 

 

Other advantages are obviously Vettel's driving + the car as an entire package is formidable. There's not just one component in there that gives the car's speed. 

Ok but i don't remember a similar advantage in the modern F1 with this restricted rules. Seems all other teams are stupid



#55 DrProzac

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 09:21

They have the best car overall and a great driver. No need to look for gizmos IMHO. 

 

Using KERS to control traction would be very clever, but I doubt it's possible with all the software control and ECU standardization. And even if, iI doubt it would sound the same as ignition cut TC.

 

 

Here is a video.   Vettel does not modulate the throttle.  He just pushes the pedal on each corner, the electronics do the rest

 

He is driving in a normal way and the car has very good grip.


Edited by DrProzac, 28 September 2013 - 09:21.


#56 vista

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 09:22

I guess the best software engineers are hired by the teams. Not by the FIA to their inspection.



#57 st99

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 09:29

I knew something like this would appear soon :lol: They're winning everything so they must be cheating of course :rolleyes:

 

Some talk about the differences between Webber and Vettel in Singapore, I think we can explain that fairly simple: Vettel was in clean air and could control his pace and save his tyres while Webber was in dirty air almost all race, and we know how bad the RB is dirty air (it's a car designed to be first not to overtake). Another thing is that this is one of Webber's worst circuits, he has always been 3-4 tenths slower than Vettel around here (even in 2009 when there wasn't blown diffusers).

This race was similar to Hungary 2010, don't you remember that Webber was able to pull a fairly similar advantage after the safety car?

 

And about the lap time difference, I think it's not 2 seconds, it was exagerated because Rosberg was going too slow at that time (because of his front wing problem) that even Force India thought that he was doing it in purpose to go until the end on that set of tyres.


Edited by st99, 28 September 2013 - 09:31.


#58 study

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 09:30

Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest

 

time and time again they've being caught twisting the rules, why not again.

 

 

The mock outrage that people are picking on them cause they are winning is laughable, they've twisted the rules too much in the past to not be suspect.


Edited by study, 28 September 2013 - 09:32.


#59 Tron

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 09:33

I knew something like this would appear soon :lol: They're winning everything so they must be cheating of course :rolleyes:

 

 

It happens all the time, from the Williams to the Benetton eras, to Mika and Michael, then Alonso and Brawn, now Vettel.

 

It's normal with all sports.

 

And when thinking about it, if Redbull do have some kind of new tricky gimmick, good for them for coming up with it, and silly for the others for staying behind. :smoking:



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#60 FirstWatt

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 09:37

Minardi knows what he is doing, he knows what to look at when watching the cars through a corner.

 

And if he says that vettel is 50m earlier on the throttle than all others included Web, i believe him.

And if he says that the strange sound could only be perceived when Vet was lapping that fast and not during the whole race, I believe him.

 

This all doesn't mean they are cheating, and so says Minardi. But it can mean that they have found a very clever way to modulate the torque, which others do not.

Only strange Thing is that Webber seems not to use the same mapping/System.


Edited by FirstWatt, 28 September 2013 - 09:39.


#61 JensonWDC

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 09:39

NO NO NO  Vettel is just mega around Singapore. yes it´s that simple!



#62 Group B

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 09:44

Yes, but thanks to marko it's only on Sebs car

 

:rolleyes:

 

And yet Webber is keeping schtum, despite disliking SV and having nothing to lose since he's leaving anyway.



#63 DarthWillie

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 09:50

Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest

 

time and time again they've being caught twisting the rules, why not again.

 

 

The mock outrage that people are picking on them cause they are winning is laughable, they've twisted the rules too much in the past to not be suspect.

and yet not convicted,they use the rules to the max without beraking. So nothing to be suspect about. Just admire cleverness


Edited by DarthWillie, 28 September 2013 - 09:50.


#64 Group B

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 09:50

Here is a video.   Vettel does not modulate the throttle.  He just pushes the pedal on each corner, the electronics do the rest

 

 

Splendid. Now, given that you think this easily available material is good evidence of cheating please enlighten us as to why the FIA and other teams are not saying the same thing?



#65 Gyno

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 09:51

:rolleyes:

 

And yet Webber is keeping schtum, despite disliking SV and having nothing to lose since he's leaving anyway.

Maybe he has no clue about it and belives everthing the team tells him.

Or even more likely he gets paid alot to keep his mouth shut.



#66 olliek88

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 09:59

Red Bull are using a form of traction control, not only that but it is only being used on Seb's car! My sources suggest its code named "his right foot".



#67 Melchiot

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 10:02

This is Schumacher and Benetton traction control saga all over again.

 

You just know what's going to happen next:

Upset by all the negative media, Vettel takes Newey and his race engineer and goes to ferrari in 2015



#68 Briz

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 10:05

It makes sense to use a cheat just on Vettel's car and not on Webber's at this point, but it doesn't make sense to lap 2.5 seconds faster than the rest when using a cheat, that is just plain stupid and not needed. I think they either found something new that they think they can defend in current regulations OR it was just many things falling into place to have those 2.5 secs advantage at a few stages in the race.



#69 Niceone

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 10:10

This is Schumacher and Benetton traction control saga all over again.

 

With Schumacher there were team mate claiming that Schumi's car had functions that second car didn't have. When Michael was banned from two races they didn't let that team mate to drive with Michael's car.



#70 st99

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 10:10

One thing about what Minardi is saying: if there was something weird about Vettel's car that could be so easily heard then why none of the other teams said anything? If they doubted for one second that RB could be using TC they would had already complained to the FIA.

 

In my opinion what is giving RB the advantage is something that the other teams are using too but more efficient, just like with the blown diffusers everyone had them but RB's was better.


Edited by st99, 28 September 2013 - 10:12.


#71 krea

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 11:06

Maybe it would help not to use the 2.5s all the time.

 

Vettel was the only one who was pushing fastest laps at this time.



#72 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 11:08

Singapore could have been an incident because it being a street circuit. If Vettel is two seconds per lap ahead in Korea again I'll be having doubts. That would be abnormal, and something even Schumacher didn't have over Barrichello in the golden years 2002 and 2004.



#73 Baddoer

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 11:14

My bet RB have some sort of traction control but it is not used in the actual races.



#74 Tron

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 11:21

With Schumacher there were team mate claiming that Schumi's car had functions that second car didn't have. When Michael was banned from two races they didn't let that team mate to drive with Michael's car.

 

As claimed by the team mate that couldn't keep up with Michael... PR for his career...


Edited by Tron, 28 September 2013 - 11:21.


#75 krea

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 11:30

With Schumacher there were team mate claiming that Schumi's car had functions that second car didn't have. When Michael was banned from two races they didn't let that team mate to drive with Michael's car.

 

A Schumacher who proved that he was on par with Senna, Prost and Mansell in the previous years.



#76 sennafan24

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 11:35

A Schumacher who proved that he was on par with Senna, Prost and Mansell in the previous years.

Steady on

 

Senna was still a clear notch above in 1993, when Senna managed to beat Schumi whilst having a inferior car for majority of races. He was probably better than Prost at that stage, as Prost was getting on a bit.

 

On Benetton cheating in 1994, I believe they were running traction control and it was proven they were using a illegal fuel pump, however it can nor will it ever likely be proven that Schumi knew anything illegal was going on. A bit like with Alonso at Singapore 2008, we will never know if they were active participants in deviant events.

 

My point is even if RB are doing anything illegal (I do not think they are) it would be wrong to have a go at the driver who benefits, they could be oblivious.


Edited by sennafan24, 28 September 2013 - 11:39.


#77 Miggeex

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 11:53

Or what if they just have an insane traction completely legally? (spot on rear-suspension, great overall balance of the car etc. and like someone pointed out : Vettel's right foot) I thought that it has been a fact for years now...?  :drunk:



#78 Mandzipop

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 11:54

Can we please stay on topic?



#79 undersquare

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 12:00

Or what if they just have an insane traction completely legally? (spot on rear-suspension, great overall balance of the car etc. and like someone pointed out : Vettel's right foot) I thought that it has been a fact for years now...?  :drunk:

That doesn't account for the noise difference that Minardi is reporting though.



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#80 sanW10

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 12:14

Regarding using KERS as traction control, can they be using a simple KERS button which acts as a macro key (turbo key on game pads)? Maybe thats why Vettel is using most of KERS when exiting corners, even before the car straightens.

 

Turbo Key function: 

  • Turbo function for auto repeat.
  • If the turbo function is on, you can hold a button down and it will send quick disconnects, so that the console thinks that the button is being depressed quickly in succession. [Source]

 

Gamepad with Turbo key

genius-gamepad-maxfire-grandias-12v-12-t


Edited by sanW10, 28 September 2013 - 12:15.


#81 Diablobb81

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 12:37

Yes, i will care bout a guy's opinion that says there was an absolute performance difference of 2,5 sec between Vettel and the rest (which magically by the end of the article is only 2 sec) , when the difference was due to the strategy circumstances. :rolleyes:


Edited by Diablobb81, 28 September 2013 - 12:38.


#82 Tron

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 12:50

Steady on

 

Senna was still a clear notch above in 1993, when Senna managed to beat Schumi whilst having a inferior car for majority of races. He was probably better than Prost at that stage, as Prost was getting on a bit.

 

On Benetton cheating in 1994, I believe they were running traction control and it was proven they were using a illegal fuel pump, however it can nor will it ever likely be proven that Schumi knew anything illegal was going on. A bit like with Alonso at Singapore 2008, we will never know if they were active participants in deviant events.

 

My point is even if RB are doing anything illegal (I do not think they are) it would be wrong to have a go at the driver who benefits, they could be oblivious.

 

In 93 the McLaren Ford was a better car to the Benetton Ford, more like evenly matched at times, and Hakkinen showed it.

 

From what I recall of 94, just about everyone was guilty of electronic gimmicks which lead the FIA to outlaw all of them, but also the media was adding more drama to an already tragic year.

The Brazilian press played its part when Senna commented he couldn't understand Benetton's sudden pace.

 

Fully agree that if there's some new trick in RB's sleeve, most likely Vettel is unaware of it, and again, even if they are using one... well good for them as clearly it's working and the FIA is cool with it.



#83 maverick69

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 13:02

Brundle was trackside at Singapore during FP and he said that the Red Bull sounded like it was cutting four cylinders during the acceleration phase out of corners..... and it was the only car to sound like that. He's also been trackside at all of the previous races and he's never mentioned it before.

 

So. Given that cutting cylinders under acceleration is one way of controlling torque output in relation to throttle position and revs...... then it would be not outrageous to hypothesize that Red Bull have found a way to employ "traction control" (which is actually a very broad term)......... probably with the technical regulations provided....... because they would get royally hung if found doing something that illegal........



#84 Tron

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 13:09

because they would get royally hung if found doing something that illegal........

 

It would destroy the sport, because as I said earlier, it would bring into question all their wins... and lets be honest, F1 is a business... so would money allow such a thing to surface?

 

Look at what's happened to cycling.



#85 SealTheDiffuser

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 13:14

Here is a video.   Vettel does not modulate the throttle.  He just pushes the pedal on each corner, the electronics do the rest

 

 

I'm sure you are sarcastic, if not then blind.

 

Just look at the throttle gauge, he is modulating it.



#86 sennafan24

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 13:19

In 93 the McLaren Ford was a better car to the Benetton Ford, more like evenly matched at times, and Hakkinen showed it.

 

Mika showed that towards the end of the year during the final races when McLaren received the same engine as Benetton. Before than Benetton had the more pwerful engine for most of the season. McLaren did have a advantage at the start of the year with added traction control, but from Monaco up until the last few races, Benetton had the same car pretty much but with a more powerful engine.

 

Senna made the difference that year, and it is pretty much fact.

 

Other teams did get busted in 1994, and there was never any concrete proof Benetton used the software they were caught with. It just a case of who you believe, and I believe that Flavio was using traction control, as the software Benetton were caught with was indeed traction control related! Coincidence? I think not personally.


Edited by sennafan24, 28 September 2013 - 13:21.


#87 Group B

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 13:32

It would destroy the sport, because as I said earlier, it would bring into question all their wins... and lets be honest, F1 is a business... so would money allow such a thing to surface?

 

Look at what's happened to cycling.

 

Tinfoil hat twaddle. It sounds all sinister and exciting, but doesn't begin to hold water.



#88 ThomFi

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 13:33

When Red Bull introduced their coanda exhaust ramp/tunnel solution last year, there were plenty of technical analysis about its strength and weaknesses.

Other cars without the ramp and a perfect coke bottle shape of the side pods and the rear produce more down force at the entry of a corner/breaking zone.

In case of Red Bull, a perfect coke bottle shape is hindered by the usage of the ramp. Also the tunnels of Red Bull are producing more drag.

It's the corner entry where the Red Bull solution excels.  The only car with a high rake and this kind of exhaust solution is Red Bull.

It's also know (AMuS for example), that Red Bull uses different engine settings in comparison the other teams with Renault engine.



#89 Tron

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 13:58

Tinfoil hat twaddle. It sounds all sinister and exciting, but doesn't begin to hold water.

 

:rolleyes:

 

I guess you believe every president is an honest man working for their people. :lol:



#90 sennafan24

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 14:13

It would not be the first time a organisation would cover up or quietly deal with something that could harm the sport, a certain very well known Darts player was rumored to have been suspended from events, but the governing body kept it hush hush.

 

Either way, I seriously doubt RB is doing anything wrong and Minardi himself is not really casting accusations, the most you can get out of this if you are a serious RB hater is that they might be giving Vettel better machinery than Webber. But even then it comes with just reasons.

 

Until there is real evidence or serious accusations, the word "cheating" should not come into play.



#91 Rubens Hakkamacher

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 14:30

Ok, I'm going to go over this again, I theorized this when they first proposed the single ECU:

 

Let me start by saying, unless you are yourself a software programming genius -

 

 

there is no way you can say for certain a mutable-software based system isn't hackable.

 

 

A system may seem to you  to be "perfect" or "impenetrable", BUT unless you are a programming genius, you absolutely can't ascertain that for sure.  You do not see every possibility as an elite programmer does, you can't fathom the possibilties. 

 

 So right out of the gate, you have to presume there *could* be shennanigans going on with the ECU.

 

Then, you have the analog side of the KERS system, which involves capacitance, resistance, and inductance.  The ECU software has to go by measurements of these things, BUT they can all be *transitory* - what the ECU is reading does not mean that is what is happen *at that exact moment*. 

 

 Analog circuits can be devised so that voltage and current can be delayed, or swapped in value; the ECU does not automatically know the nature of the circuit it is attached to.

 

 Between those two concepts there is plenty of leeway to devise a "legal" TC system.

 

 One way would be to create a window whereby the KERS motor has a load across it under "special circumstances".   You wouldn't see it charging, you wouldn't see a voltage spike. 

 

 Or you could rig a capacitance system so that the way it discharges is proportionate to the curve of the impedance of the KERS motor, so that it "wants" to discharge more when the resistance of the motor is higher, or vice versa - you could make it so that if the resistance goes up, there is a lag time before it discharges.

 

 Or, if you know there is a particular corner where you can gain a lot of time with TC, you do laps in FP and figure out the timing of the oscillation of the tire slipping, and inversely oscillate the discharge.

 

 Or you could make a "battery overheating" event, whereby the resistance on the circuit looks like it's one thing, but actually the charge coming off the KERS motor is being buffered via the rise time of a capacitor or a battery. 

 

.. or more possibliities.  All of which could be disguised by deft programming.  Charlie Whiting would not have the knowledge base to detect such a thing, Microsoft engineers wouldn't "see" it happening, unless they did a full audit of the code and analyzed how RBR has tweaked things relative to prior knowledge of RBR's analog circuitry. 

 

 Which, unless you're paying a dedicated hacker, for each team full time, to figure out "is the system being hacked?" you would never know.

 

 But, it would be a good distraction to place the ability to out accellerate everyone on the genius of Newey, instead of the genius of an unseen programmer.

 

 

 

 

 

 



#92 beeclown

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 14:58

Interesting theory but Vettel only seems to be using kers after the traction events are over in the above on-board. Unless you mean to say that tc trickery could possibly be utilised via kers even when it is not actively discharging?


Edited by beeclown, 28 September 2013 - 14:58.


#93 Group B

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 15:03

:rolleyes:

 

I guess you believe every president is an honest man working for their people. :lol:

 

Nope, I'm healthily cynical I can assure you, but I'm also grown up enough to know that not everything is a conspiracy, and the one you propose one is a veritable colander.



#94 TomNokoe

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 15:13

It would explain why Webber is "so" slow. Red Bull would keep it hush from Webber because he would more than likely blow the whistle once he leaves.

#95 Group B

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 15:16

It would explain why Webber is "so" slow. Red Bull would keep it hush from Webber because he would more than likely blow the whistle once he leaves.

 

So you, me and the rest of mankind have all noticed but the Webber is blissfully unaware?



#96 Tron

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 15:19

Nope, I'm healthily cynical I can assure you, but I'm also grown up enough to know that not everything is a conspiracy, and the one you propose one is a veritable colander.

 

:lol:

 

No, you're suggesting that as you're a Vettel fan. Big diffirence. :p

 

But returning to topic, and no this isn't a conspiracy theory, it's actual "FACT" that occurs everyday with just about every corporation doing whatever it can to protect it's image, because image is the billboard to making profit, and like with all businesses, they exist to make money, so F1 "might" do what it can to protect it's money generating image.

 

Think about it. Lets say further on in the future of F1, team McDonalds Honda, five times world champions in a row, are discovered of cheating.

It will be major uproar that will burn almost every internet server, and sponsors will not be too keen to be linked to such a sport where this happened.

Example, look at how Renualt pulled out as a works team after the crashgate scandal.

 

To automatically deny everything without questioning, and without leaving an open space for whatever suggestion supported by previous incidents, like the cycling scandal in this instance, is not being cynical, but rather narrow minded.



#97 Group B

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 15:31

:lol:

 

No, you're suggesting that as you're a Vettel fan. Big diffirence. :p

 

But returning to topic, and no this isn't a conspiracy theory, it's actual "FACT" that occurs everyday with just about every corporation doing whatever it can to protect it's image, because image is the billboard to making profit, and like with all businesses, they exist to make money, so F1 "might" do what it can to protect it's money generating image.

 

Think about it. Lets say further on in the future of F1, team McDonalds Honda, five times world champions in a row, are discovered of cheating.

It will be major uproar that will burn almost every internet server, and sponsors will not be too keen to be linked to such a sport where this happened.

Example, look at how Renualt pulled out as a works team after the crashgate scandal.

 

To automatically deny everything without questioning, and without leaving an open space for whatever suggestion supported by previous incidents, like the cycling scandal in this instance, is not being cynical, but rather narrow minded.

 

Of course if happens, you're teaching your granny to suck eggs there, but the one you're proposing would require lots of people with lots to lose keeping schtum, all on the basis of an extremely tenuous assumption - RB were cheating at Singapore 2013, so the world will automatically assume they've definitely been cheating in every race for 5 years and they'll all switch off as a result - which, frankly, really doesn't follow.



#98 krea

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 15:38

Ok, I'm going to go over this again, I theorized this when they first proposed the single ECU:

 

Let me start by saying, unless you are yourself a software programming genius -

 

 

there is no way you can say for certain a mutable-software based system isn't hackable.

 

 

A system may seem to you  to be "perfect" or "impenetrable", BUT unless you are a programming genius, you absolutely can't ascertain that for sure.  You do not see every possibility as an elite programmer does, you can't fathom the possibilties. 

 

 So right out of the gate, you have to presume there *could* be shennanigans going on with the ECU.

 

Then, you have the analog side of the KERS system, which involves capacitance, resistance, and inductance.  The ECU software has to go by measurements of these things, BUT they can all be *transitory* - what the ECU is reading does not mean that is what is happen *at that exact moment*. 

 

 Analog circuits can be devised so that voltage and current can be delayed, or swapped in value; the ECU does not automatically know the nature of the circuit it is attached to.

 

 Between those two concepts there is plenty of leeway to devise a "legal" TC system.

 

 One way would be to create a window whereby the KERS motor has a load across it under "special circumstances".   You wouldn't see it charging, you wouldn't see a voltage spike. 

 

 Or you could rig a capacitance system so that the way it discharges is proportionate to the curve of the impedance of the KERS motor, so that it "wants" to discharge more when the resistance of the motor is higher, or vice versa - you could make it so that if the resistance goes up, there is a lag time before it discharges.

 

 Or, if you know there is a particular corner where you can gain a lot of time with TC, you do laps in FP and figure out the timing of the oscillation of the tire slipping, and inversely oscillate the discharge.

 

 Or you could make a "battery overheating" event, whereby the resistance on the circuit looks like it's one thing, but actually the charge coming off the KERS motor is being buffered via the rise time of a capacitor or a battery. 

 

.. or more possibliities.  All of which could be disguised by deft programming.  Charlie Whiting would not have the knowledge base to detect such a thing, Microsoft engineers wouldn't "see" it happening, unless they did a full audit of the code and analyzed how RBR has tweaked things relative to prior knowledge of RBR's analog circuitry. 

 

 Which, unless you're paying a dedicated hacker, for each team full time, to figure out "is the system being hacked?" you would never know.

 

 But, it would be a good distraction to place the ability to out accellerate everyone on the genius of Newey, instead of the genius of an unseen programmer.

 

Read the rules. It's impossible and would only work if Red Bull has a second ECU in their cars and can hide it perfectly, though it would be still visible in the data.


Edited by krea, 28 September 2013 - 15:40.


#99 Tron

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 15:54

Of course if happens, you're teaching your granny to suck eggs there, but the one you're proposing would require lots of people with lots to lose keeping schtum, all on the basis of an extremely tenuous assumption - RB were cheating at Singapore 2013, so the world will automatically assume they've definitely been cheating in every race for 5 years and they'll all switch off as a result - which, frankly, really doesn't follow.

 

You completely missunderstood me.

 

Firstly, I never accused them. By my previous posts on this thread, I've twice defended them for being innovative if they have .

 

Secondly I made a possible assumption.

 

Thirdly I clearly stated, that it would bring into question all their wins. Which I never said by the FIA keeping silent for years, but instead by RB being clever in hidding other little tricks.

 

Also my point is that the FIA might want to keep quiet over this incident, so not to create media hype to question the previous years.

 

Finally, also on this thread, I've clearly typed it's more a case of RB and Vettel nailing it 100% perfect at that race.

 

Dude, please, don't put words in my opinion that I never typed by already lifting your anti-conspiracy rifle.  ;)

 

Peace.


Edited by Tron, 28 September 2013 - 15:55.


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#100 Gorma

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 17:04

Brundle was trackside at Singapore during FP and he said that the Red Bull sounded like it was cutting four cylinders during the acceleration phase out of corners..... and it was the only car to sound like that. He's also been trackside at all of the previous races and he's never mentioned it before.

 

So. Given that cutting cylinders under acceleration is one way of controlling torque output in relation to throttle position and revs...... then it would be not outrageous to hypothesize that Red Bull have found a way to employ "traction control" (which is actually a very broad term)......... probably with the technical regulations provided....... because they would get royally hung if found doing something that illegal........

 

Red Bull might figured out how to smoothen power delivery out of a corner, but that is far far far from an actual traction control system.