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Is RB using a traction control system?


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#101 BootLace

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 17:20

Interesting theory but Vettel only seems to be using kers after the traction events are over in the above on-board. Unless you mean to say that tc trickery could possibly be utilised via kers even when it is not actively discharging?

My first thought was how would you use KERS as TC in an already traction limited scenario, my guesses were:

- Use partial throttle and let KERS apply additional power

- Continue harvesting KERS under acceleration, reducing net power at the wheels

 

The first guess seems unlikely, esp, as you say he's not using KERS until later. As for the other, are there any regulations governing when you can harvest the energy, does it purely have to be under braking? If so, I can't see a legit way of doing that either :)



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#102 windy1603

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 18:16

Splendid. Now, given that you think this easily available material is good evidence of cheating please enlighten us as to why the FIA and other teams are not saying the same thing?

 

 

You could say the same about bendy front wing, lots of video evidence and nothing from FIA even after teams complaining.



#103 olliek88

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 18:43

You people hurt my head.



#104 techspeed

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 19:20

Ok, I'm going to go over this again, I theorized this when they first proposed the single ECU:

 

Let me start by saying, unless you are yourself a software programming genius -

 

 

there is no way you can say for certain a mutable-software based system isn't hackable.

 

 

A system may seem to you  to be "perfect" or "impenetrable", BUT unless you are a programming genius, you absolutely can't ascertain that for sure.  You do not see every possibility as an elite programmer does, you can't fathom the possibilties. 

 

 So right out of the gate, you have to presume there *could* be shennanigans going on with the ECU.

The problem with any idea of hacking the software in the ECU means you would also have to find a way to store the original firmware and find a way to upload it back into the ECU after the race in case it is checked, in hardware not designed for it.

 

 

One reason a standard ECU is used is that it means the FIA can make sure it doesn't have the hardware to interface with the sensors needed for traction control, and therefore can't use a traction control system. If Renault, Mercedes or Ferrari come up with a way to limit torque when accelerating by cutting cylinders or whatever, the ECU would have to be programmed to do it whether the tyres are spinning or gripping. To be an actual traction control there would need to be a second ECU somewhere in the system between the standard ECU and the engine, so would be pretty easy to spot.



#105 Group B

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 19:31

You could say the same about bendy front wing, lots of video evidence and nothing from FIA even after teams complaining.

 

No you couldn't; the FIA can't be accused of failing to react to complaints if nobody of consequence is complaining in the first place.



#106 Kimble

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 20:03

The teams have suspected something suspicious with the Renault on the RB for the last few months.  I wouldn't be surprised if this blows up soon.



#107 ThomFi

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 20:37

The teams have suspected something suspicious with the Renault on the RB for the last few months.  I wouldn't be surprised if this blows up soon.

 

Grasping at straws ?

And witch teams have suspected something suspicious ?



#108 ANF

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 22:30





Why don't you compare the speeds, the sounds, the throttle bars, and the KERS indicators on these pole laps. I can't find anything that looks fishy.

 

(Jump to 00:25 in Vettel's video to get to the place where Hamilton's starts.)



#109 rodlamas

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 23:43

The TC control thing is BS. You would hear the system cutting the cylinders. Take a look at a lap from 2007 or 2005 it's just so clear. And talking about the 2.5 seconds it was during just one stint when clearly Rocky told him to push and use the tyres as on others he would be told to cruise and save the tyres. And going further, Rosberg had a problem and was holding up the queue just as he did in Monaco and a Caterham was posting fastest laps after changing the nose.

 

So the answer is

 

1) No, Red Bull hasn't got a TC system.

2) No, Vettel hasn't got a 2.0-2.5 seconds advantage but still probably has something around 1/2 or 3/4 or a second.

3) No, there isn't a chance he is going to banned from two races.

4) No, he isn't going to lose the title.



#110 stevesxm

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 09:38

Yes, yes, they must be cheating. They are getting desperate; Vettel and Red Bull can't afford another unsuccessful season in Formula One.

 

this is VERY VERY good...



#111 Galko877

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 10:35

 

So, we have reached stage 3 in the yearly "Vettel's championship train grief". As usual, it follows the classic pattern:

 

  1. Denial - Surely he isn't as good as anyone else, even when he has the best car he is bound to make mistakes and someone better will snatch the title!
  2. Anger - This whiny German bastard doesn't deserve to have the success he is having, this is unacceptable.
  3. Bargaining - The reason he is winning is because he is cheating! Soon FIA will find out, ban him and Red Bull for life and erase all their records from history books.
  4. Depression - There is no hope, this guy will just win race after race year after year.
  5. Acceptance - This stage is actually never reached, as new season always restarts the cycle from beginning. 

 

:up:



#112 Higli

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 10:59

No.



#113 AustinF1

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 10:59

 

- Continue harvesting KERS under acceleration, reducing net power at the wheels

 

 

This was my thought as well.



#114 AustinF1

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 11:02





Why don't you compare the speeds, the sounds, the throttle bars, and the KERS indicators on these pole laps. I can't find anything that looks fishy.

 

(Jump to 00:25 in Vettel's video to get to the place where Hamilton's starts.)

Watching Hamilton;s lap there are several instances where he starts to accelerate then lifts briefly then resumes accelerating. In Vettel's lap I only found 1 very quick instance of him hesitating this way under acceleration. Vettel increases the throttle steadily and then releases it like an OFF switch. Hamilton modulates more under acceleration and releases the throttle slower most times.


Edited by AustinF1, 29 September 2013 - 11:05.


#115 Group B

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 11:18

Watching Hamilton;s lap there are several instances where he starts to accelerate then lifts briefly then resumes accelerating. In Vettel's lap I only found 1 very quick instance of him hesitating this way under acceleration. Vettel increases the throttle steadily and then releases it like an OFF switch. Hamilton modulates more under acceleration and releases the throttle slower most times.

 

Question is, if you can see it, why can't all the experts at Ferrari, or Merceds, or Lotus? Personally I suspect an uber conspiracy; all the teams plus the FIA are running a mega sham in order to make a finger wagging German appear to be a better driver than he really is.



#116 sv401

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 11:41

Watching Hamilton;s lap there are several instances where he starts to accelerate then lifts briefly then resumes accelerating. In Vettel's lap I only found 1 very quick instance of him hesitating this way under acceleration. Vettel increases the throttle steadily and then releases it like an OFF switch. Hamilton modulates more under acceleration and releases the throttle slower most times.

 

Driver does not make mistakes on qualifying lap: must be cheating ! Of course, had the roles been reversed, it would be viewed as Hamilton extracting 100% from the car and Vettel proving yet again that he is second rate. :lol:



#117 jokuvaan

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 12:02

Usually teams try to copy if something new and clever has been found, only if they fail to copy it or consider it illegal, then they will gather evidence and go for FIA route.



#118 Rubens Hakkamacher

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 12:15

Read the rules. It's impossible and would only work if Red Bull has a second ECU in their cars and can hide it perfectly, though it would be still visible in the data.

 

Just because there are rules doesn't mean they're being obeyed, particularly in F1.

 

It is not impossible - point is that it is a software based system, and I claim there isn't a software system that isn't hackable. 

 

As far as the data goes, my point about the "analog" side of things is that you have an electrical circuit with components that can act variably depending on outside parameters.   What information is presented to a sensor can be cloaked.   A lot can be hidden inside Ohm's Law, and again unless you are an EE you're not likely to fathom the possibilities off hand.

 

Here's another possibility:

 

While one is "discharging" the KERS system under accelleration, you could filter the "ripple" of the difference between the torque of the motor and it's rpm, disguise it as a "back-EMF overcharge" protection circuit, and you'd have TC while using KERS.  It doesn't show up in the data because if it works right it just looks like the battery reacting to the resistance, or the KERS motor heating up, or any other variables.

 

The thing is that you have analog components whose operational limits are not binary/digital.  You can't measure a capacitor and say that how fast/slow it's discharging relative to the load being placed on it is "normal". 

 

How about this, you could build a capacitor that is placed in such a way in the car that it could be loaded just enough under accelleration G load that it's properties completely change. 

 

Does the FIA pull the battery packs apart?  All sorts of things could go on there. 

 

So outside the ECU you've got capacitors, batteries, inductors, possibly diodes, all sorts of things that can be engineered to have just about any kind of reactive property you want.  On the ECU side you've got a complex multi-level software application that is not unlike any other software app.  Look at the U.S. Stuxnet virus buried in the Siemans control software - there weren't any Iranian engineers that were fooled by that? 

 

Regardless, I'm going to just again say - 2 seconds a lap but only a 10th in qualifying....? 

 

 

SHENNANIGANS!



#119 Bloggsworth

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 12:23

Yes, the driver's right foot.



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#120 Higli

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 12:24

Maybe all this Singapore is just a fake. It is all made up by Hollywood! Remember Apollo and the moon?



#121 Rubens Hakkamacher

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 12:34


Using KERS to control traction would be very clever, but I doubt it's possible with all the software control and ECU standardization. And even if, iI doubt it would sound the same as ignition cut TC.

 

 

The thing is, there are many ways to rig the analog circuit side of things. 

 

Hmm... another strategy would be to make the power delivery have "jitter" in the output - with an electric motor you could modulate it at a frequency corresponding to the ignition timing. 

 

For that matter, there is a phase relationship between the ignition timing and the KERS motor; you could exploit that by buffering the DC offset, and the ECU would just see a very smoothly behaving KERS/engine.

 

The problem is that you're not getting a raw analog feed of a *digitized* sensor - like the temperature of the oil being sent by radio to a receiver - you're actually getting buffered data, and data collated by software, and data that is mediated by the same system creating the data. 

 

Given the right low level technical prowess, one could do something like exploit a CPU switch that autoloads a program that erases race data, writes a pre-programmed "race" into it, then erase the evidence of the extra data's location.   The "tampering" aspect is only limited by the innvulnerability of the software system itself.

 

From what I see they (McLaren) use MATLAB and some off the shelf front ends (including Direct-X).  Getting "under the hood" of that should be a given IMO.



#122 Rubens Hakkamacher

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 12:39

Tthe ECU would have to be programmed to do it whether the tyres are spinning or gripping. To be an actual traction control there would need to be a second ECU somewhere in the system between the standard ECU and the engine, so would be pretty easy to spot.

 

You're presuming the software can't be tampered with (I disagree), and that it has to be the ECU that makes "things" happen.  You can still devise a hardware system that gives the "apparently" legal information to the analog inputs of the ECU while still functioning as TC (as described in previous posts).



#123 Rubens Hakkamacher

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 12:41

Why don't you compare the speeds, the sounds, the throttle bars, and the KERS indicators on these pole laps. I can't find anything that looks fishy.

 

 

Well that's the thing, isn't it?  Vettel's car is only capable of a 2 second advantage *during a race*....



#124 Raven8

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 12:43

Yes, the driver's right foot.

Can't give this advantage, simply impossible



#125 Rubens Hakkamacher

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 12:45

The TC control thing is BS. You would hear the system cutting the cylinders. T

 

People do claim to hear things (I heard on-throttle tc sounds at Montreal in 2011).   But you are presuming that cutting cylinders is the only way, when it is not.

 

You could selectively run current into the KERS motor backwards, damping the motor.  Maybe it makes the car misfire, maybe it doesn't, maybe depending on the rate in which you do it.  



#126 chunder27

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 12:49

I very much doubt Seb and RBR are cheating

 

If they are I imagine everyone else is too, that is the way it usually is until someone finds something very different like a doube diffuser or an extra brake pedal or the fan car etc etc doube chassis Lotus.

 

Its the same in MotoGP, were you now have a guy who is totally dominating and making the sport a mockery, sadly this is the way of things and why motorsport as a whole struggles to keep fans long term, as things like Football, NFL, rugby, etcd have more variety usually. Less predictability, and less boring stuff going on



#127 undersquare

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 13:28

I doubt they are cheating, it would make no sense at all.  But at the same time they did have a hinged floor, didn't they?  With a pivoting bib.

 

It passed the load tests but it was definitely illegal being a moving aero surface and not rigidly secured etc etc, but the FIA didn't challenge them, have a hearing, accuse them, or take any points away.  Instead we just had Charlie introducing some new rules about wear strips to physically prevent them doing it any more.  It was quite strange I thought.

 

It seems as long as there is some kind of excuse, however wafer thin, RBR won't lose any points.  So it wouldn't surprise me at all to find some torque control that other teams think is illegal.  After all they were changing maps in 2012 when everyone thought they weren't allowed to.  

 

Webber can't be trusted not to screw races up for Vettel so his car wouldn't get it, hence Minardi only heard and saw it on Sebi's.



#128 Lucass

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 14:17

Lovely thread :lol:

If you can't beat them try to get them disqualified and if you can't get them disqualified then throw around silly rumours about transgressions that can't be proven. :down:

 

I'm a proud Ferrari fan but we are getting beaten fair and square by Sebastian and his team.

Sometimes I'm ashamed of the lows my fellow tifosi sink to in order to discredit Red Bull

 



#129 JimiKart

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 14:43

What’s considered cheating is a matter of opinion as Ross Brawn has proved time and time again, so I have no idea if there's any cheating going on, but no doubt RB have a number of things the other teams don't, otherwise Seb wouldn't be racking up the advantage he has been so far this season. One thing is clear from Sebs's on board to anyone who knows what they're looking at, that car drives flawlessly, it's clearly a cut above any other car, including Webbo's.



#130 ANF

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 14:49

Watching Hamilton;s lap there are several instances where he starts to accelerate then lifts briefly then resumes accelerating. In Vettel's lap I only found 1 very quick instance of him hesitating this way under acceleration. Vettel increases the throttle steadily and then releases it like an OFF switch. Hamilton modulates more under acceleration and releases the throttle slower most times.

There are some small differences, yes, but they can probably be explained by driving styles, car set-up and characteristics, tyres and grip levels, some tiny driver errors…

Looking at the throttle bars, I think their throttle application is very similar out of most corners. I would expect something totally different from a car with traction control. The use of KERS is very similar as well. Unlike Hamilton, however, Vettel short-shifts in the chicanes (turns 12, 17, 21). Why would he do that if he didn't have to worry about traction?

 

Actually, the only thing I can accuse Vettel of is driving like a robot.



#131 Group B

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 14:56

The last time we had to endure this level of driver bashing and daft conspiracy theories about one team mate having a much better car was back in the early/mid 2000s, when MS was approaching 5 on the bounce. Which rather suggests that some people either hate winners, hate Germans, or a combination of the two.



#132 Raven8

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 15:31

The last time we had to endure this level of driver bashing and daft conspiracy theories about one team mate having a much better car was back in the early/mid 2000s, when MS was approaching 5 on the bounce. Which rather suggests that some people either hate winners, hate Germans, or a combination of the two.

No the best example about running illeagal traction control and driver equality to name Schumacher



#133 Gyno

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 15:39

Why cant the FIA be as strict in F1 as they are in WRC?

 

If something if off even by 1mm they are imidiatly DQ from the rally and points taken away.

Or a few gramms underweight same thing.

 

But in F1 they get a slap on the wrist and told not to do it again, atleast when it comes to the BIG teams.

 

Only way to be 100% sure no team uses any kind of TC is to get rid of all electronics.

Or jsut allow TC and LC.

 

Reason why TC and launch control was banned in the first place was because the Fans wanted to see more action, like drifting in corners or a driver mess up his start and burn rubber.

But no such things happened and infact it looks like all teams have some sort of LC and TC in use.

The start is pretty much automatic, computer does almost everything, driver just keeps the pedal to the metal and releases the clutch and off he goes.

So no real difference to LC.

 

So they should either open up the regs on the ECU and allow each team to build their own like in the past and allow all types of driver aids possible.
OR

get rid of all electronics from the car.

There would only be 2 buttons on the steering wheel, Radio button and Drink button.

Secuental gear box with a STICK, like in the good old days.

And a PROPER Clutch pedal that is Directly linked to the clutch.

 

If WRC can do it then so can F1.



#134 Gyno

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 15:43

No the best example about running illeagal traction control and driver equality to name Schumacher

Actually it was mclaren who was using ILLEGAL Traction Control, and LAUNCH CONTROL.

Mclaren took all the time GREAT starts and once the FIA allowed TC and LC then all other cars managed to make the same kind of starts that mclaren did.

 

Remember 1 time when Mika started way back in the field and by first corner he was in the lead.

That was all down to them using illegal LC.

 

or how about in 98 with their 3rd brake pedal that they used as TC in corners?

 

Mclaren was a Bunch of cheaters back then.



#135 JimiKart

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 16:08

The last time we had to endure this level of driver bashing and daft conspiracy theories about one team mate having a much better car was back in the early/mid 2000s, when MS was approaching 5 on the bounce. Which rather suggests that some people either hate winners, hate Germans, or a combination of the two.

It also suggests that some people are way to over-sensitive about any suggestion thay even comes close to saying that Vettel is anything but the best, and maybe those people are making an issue out of it while everyone else is trying to find an explanation for why that RB car is so fast, you only "endure" it when you click on the thread, you have a choice.



#136 undersquare

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 16:12

Actually it was mclaren who was using ILLEGAL Traction Control, and LAUNCH CONTROL.

Mclaren took all the time GREAT starts and once the FIA allowed TC and LC then all other cars managed to make the same kind of starts that mclaren did.

 

Remember 1 time when Mika started way back in the field and by first corner he was in the lead.

That was all down to them using illegal LC.

 

or how about in 98 with their 3rd brake pedal that they used as TC in corners?

 

Mclaren was a Bunch of cheaters back then.

Was it illegal?  Or was it made illegal because McLaren started using it?

 

The fiddle brake wasn't illegal I'm pretty sure, until it was discovered.  And it wasn't used as TC, it was used to turn the car.

 

One of the reasons Red Bull's innovations are viewed with suspicion is that McLaren have historically been given a stricter regime, like last year when they weren't even allowed to run a legal floor because apparently their motivation for using the tolerance that was specified in the rules was unacceptable   :drunk: . 

 

Meanwhile Red Bull have been allowed all kinds of leeway.  So history has taught us that the FIA not doing anything doesn't give us a clue about what Red Bull are up to.  Minardi is at least offering some kind of evidence, even if it's not 100%.



#137 Silvercheese

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 16:19

It was only about a year ago that we found out McLaren were using rotary front wings on their cars for months (Since Hungary) and they were only found out when it was discovered that Red Bull finally copied it and went one better. 

 

Day one of Red Bull using it and the FIA enforced new tests on wing flexibility for Japan.  :lol:



#138 redreni

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 16:44

There‘s no doubt in my mind the Red Bull doesn‘t fully comply with the technical regulations. Same goes for every car on the grid. The teams are much, much cleverer than the FIA technical department, so in my view it would be astonishing if anybody was sticking to the rules.

There is something about the design of the Red Bull that gives it a substantial advantage over the others which the other teams don‘t fully understand. If they understood it, they would either copy it or, if they thought it was illegal, protest it. That‘s a lot of very clever people who don‘t know exactly why that car is so fast, so I‘m certaiy not going to pretend to. Accordingly I have no idea if whatever it is is legal or not. If it is illegal and they‘ve managed to avoid detection for all this time, then I take my hat off to them.

#139 Group B

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 16:59

It also suggests that some people are way to over-sensitive about any suggestion thay even comes close to saying that Vettel is anything but the best, and maybe those people are making an issue out of it while everyone else is trying to find an explanation for why that RB car is so fast, you only "endure" it when you click on the thread, you have a choice.

 

Which people would that be? I've certainly never claimed Vettel's the best, so I assume you have someone else in mind. As to the topic, it's no at all unreasonable to suggest any team may be cheating, so long as the evidence stands up, but so far in this thread it's been claimed by some that widely available videos and soundtracks are proof of RB using illegal TC, yet the other teams and FIA haven't noticed, then it's suggested that the whole sport is running a huge conspiracy solely to benefit one team, then that's topped by the claim that it's immensely obvious Vettel's car has this uber TC while Webber's doesn't, which mean's Webber is either the stupidest man drawing breath and hasn't realised, or is the biggest doormat alive and is keeping it secret, as are all his mechanics.



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#140 JHSingo

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 17:12

Vettel really IS emulating Schumacher, isn't he?

 

I remember the days when Schumacher was supposedly using a secret TC system on his Benetton in '94...



#141 ThomFi

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 17:28

Which people would that be? I've certainly never claimed Vettel's the best, so I assume you have someone else in mind. As to the topic, it's no at all unreasonable to suggest any team may be cheating, so long as the evidence stands up, but so far in this thread it's been claimed by some that widely available videos and soundtracks are proof of RB using illegal TC, yet the other teams and FIA haven't noticed, then it's suggested that the whole sport is running a huge conspiracy solely to benefit one team, then that's topped by the claim that it's immensely obvious Vettel's car has this uber TC while Webber's doesn't, which mean's Webber is either the stupidest man drawing breath and hasn't realised, or is the biggest doormat alive and is keeping it secret, as are all his mechanics.

 

A bunch of wild speculations and accusations, i.e. they have nothing.



#142 PayasYouRace

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 17:35

Actually it was mclaren who was using ILLEGAL Traction Control, and LAUNCH CONTROL.

Mclaren took all the time GREAT starts and once the FIA allowed TC and LC then all other cars managed to make the same kind of starts that mclaren did.

 

Remember 1 time when Mika started way back in the field and by first corner he was in the lead.

That was all down to them using illegal LC.

 

or how about in 98 with their 3rd brake pedal that they used as TC in corners?

 

Mclaren was a Bunch of cheaters back then.

 

Really? Which time was that? Surely that would be quite easy to find a reference for because it would be such a notable achievement. In no-TC/LC days, leading from the 3rd row was not uncommon (see Alesi in 1996) so I assume you mean the 5th row of the grid or worse.

 

And the 3rd pedal was for differential braking on corner entry, to help turn the car. Nothing to do with TC.



#143 ayrtonio

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 18:00

I really think they (RB) have something that other cars don't. Previous year it was a FW that flexes, this year it's something with the engine. The flexing of the FW, something to do with thermal devices i think. Should be easy to make these days. The engine setting is a little bit more difficult, as the mapping is controlled. But with the help of KERS recovery it can be done. I'm sure there are teams with illegal things on there cars, but if they can't find it, it's not there (like benetton in '94).


Edited by ayrtonio, 29 September 2013 - 18:01.


#144 JimiKart

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 18:05

This story is starting to roll, iit's got legs, Minardi has an opinion that doesn't look good for RB and it has to be based in something, sorry but he's not a nobody... RB can hide behind the old "everyone complains when we win" that Horner has used many times, but if there's any truth to it, that would explain a lot.



#145 krea

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 18:13

This story is starting to roll, iit's got legs, Minardi has an opinion that doesn't look good for RB and it has to be based in something, sorry but he's not a nobody... RB can hide behind the old "everyone complains when we win" that Horner has used many times, but if there's any truth to it, that would explain a lot.

 

There is not even an Autosport article about it. Only Minardi's blog (who is not an engineer) and some cheap blogs and websites talking about it..



#146 st99

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 18:17

This story is starting to roll, iit's got legs, Minardi has an opinion that doesn't look good for RB and it has to be based in something, sorry but he's not a nobody... RB can hide behind the old "everyone complains when we win" that Horner has used many times, but if there's any truth to it, that would explain a lot.

 

What is starting to roll? The only thing that has been reported is what Minardi said. Nobody else has said anything more about it. He's not a nobody but excuse me if I doubt that with all the media and other teams watching he was the only one to hear something weird. If it was so clear as he says why nobody else has said anything? If any team had any doubts that they could be using something illegal they would have protested (or try to copy it  :p )


Edited by st99, 29 September 2013 - 18:18.


#147 krea

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 18:21

Well, I like how there are no sound samples to prove if Vettel's engine really sounded differently.



#148 wrcva

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 18:23

If they have been able to software engineer a TC thru Charlie's stock ECU, they deserve to run it for their smarts.   That would mean not only they have the best driver, and the best aero guy combination, but they also have the best soft. engineers... more bad news for 2014.  

 

If there is such alg present in the code (something similar to Benetton's invisible option 13) these days it should be easier to trace and catch it because iirc they are using higher level programming code and standard APIs, plus unlike the 90s the standard ECU parameters are appended to MSSQL db on pretty much real time basis - and that will trigger suspicion to a (even no so gifted) trained eye even if there is a retro normalization as such applied to data...  That said, (I am not sure but) I do not think teams have to surrender a copy of their source code to FIA because it contains proprietary info - unless there is a formal investigation of sorts, but even then there likely to be good deal of lawyering before any code is released.



#149 bourbon

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 18:23

This story is starting to roll, iit's got legs,

 

You don't need legs to roll.  Just saying...



#150 JimiKart

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 18:28

Guys, it has to start somewhere... when the mainstream guys do their due diligence and we start to see more coverage then we'll talk some more, but it has to start somewhere and so it has.