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Hulkenberg: Where to, will he be in F1 in 2014? [Merged]


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#1 grunge

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 12:04

The silly season thread seems a little too busy right now with discussions on 10 different drivers going 30 different routes,i thought the Hulk deserves his own thread..

 

   Potential Scenarios

 

 1.Staying at Sauber for another year

 

 2.Lotus ...Earlier rumors did indicate the Enstone based team was interested in him but keeping in mind their Financial troubles and the most recent rumors of interest in Maldanado because of his money gaining strength,i wonder what chances are left there for Hulkenberg.

 

                        Maybe A Hulkenberg-Maldanado combination? if Lotus decides to replace Grogro.

 

 3.Ferrari...Surely he must be on the short list..Hes the brightest young talent on the grid right now and hiring him makes sense for Ferrari on all levels..Alonso has a maximum of 3 to 4 years of peak performance left in him..He can be Alonso's sidekick for 2 odd years and then finally step up to replace him.

 

 4.Back to FI...or Torro Rosso maybe?



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#2 Shiroo

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 12:46

He won't stay at Sauber.

It all depends on Ferrari. If Ferrari will hire Raikkonen, then he will go to Lotus. Or they will hire the hulk



#3 grunge

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 13:27

An Outstanding 5th place today...Dragging that Sauber inside the top 5 while his team mate finishes down in 13th.


Edited by grunge, 08 September 2013 - 14:02.


#4 Lord_Shaitan

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 13:42

Fantastic performance this weekend by Hulk. i really hope he'll end up with Lotus.



#5 KavB

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 13:55

Fantastic weekend for Nico. He's on equal points with Ricciardo and 1 point behind Perez. If those two can get a top seat then surely this guy should as well. I am hoping Kimi goes to Ferrari, and I hope Hulkenberg will take the Lotus seat.



#6 whitewaterMkII

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 13:58

Here in the US we had Mario Andretti on the broadcast team and he is really pulling for the hulk to get on a top three team. He is hot and cold, but then he's never really had any stability team wise. He would be a good fit at Ferrari, since I really doubt that Raikonnen will be there and I'm fairly sure Alonso will stay there.



#7 ausf1webber

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 13:59

If KR gets the Ferrari gig then long term the future does not look great as it would mean he is not rated that highly, Sauber being close technically to Ferrari they would have his data and due to KR having been at Ferrari previously and paid out, logically if Hulk was good, they would hire him.

#8 grunge

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 14:01

Sauber has the most loop sided situation when it comes to a comparison between team mate performances this year

 

  Hulkenberg 17     Gutierrez  0



#9 Ferras

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 14:01

An Outstanding 5th place today...Dragging that Sauber inside the top 5 while his teammate finishes down in 12th.

Esteban ended in 13th



#10 grunge

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 14:02

Esteban ended in 13th

My bad..corrected now



#11 grunge

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 14:06

He is 26 and this is his 3rd season driving an F1 car..I feel hes experienced enough to take a place at one of the Top Tier teams..Sadly though,Only Ferrari seems semi-available.

 

   If not Ferrari then id be happy with Lotus...It'd be such a shame if he loses that chance to a useless pay driver.



#12 DS27

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 14:06

KR at Ferrari will be interesting, but NH really deserves a chance in a decent team and I hope he gets the second seat.

If KR gets the seat, NH should go to Lotus, but with his luck and their money worries, they could do a 'Sauber' next year.

Edited by DS27, 08 September 2013 - 14:08.


#13 muramasa

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 14:10

Some drivers have easy career. Pundits, media and fans talk him up alot for occasional good race and put the rail for top team. 

 

Where were those people when drivers like Kobayashi and Perez did well finishing on 5th, 4th and on podiums? How very unfair F1 is.



#14 DS27

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 14:19

err.. Perez has got his shot at a top team because of his results. The fact that hind-sight doesn't exist and the Mac is a bit of a dog is irrelevant.

#15 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 14:22

All depends on Raikkonen. If he moves to Ferrari, then Hulk's got nowhere to go really. I believe Lotus will move for Maldonado to end their financial woes. And I don't believe Hulk will fancy a return to Williams.

 

So my guess he well stay at Sauber, they need an experienced guy next to Sirotkin anyway. And with the new regulations, it's anyone's guess which car will be best, could be Sauber for all we know.



#16 Seanspeed

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 14:27

Still crossing my fingers Ferrari pick him up.  If they don't, somebody else will.



#17 muramasa

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 14:44

err.. Perez has got his shot at a top team because of his results. The fact that hind-sight doesn't exist and the Mac is a bit of a dog is irrelevant.

i'm talking about peoples reaction.

Take Brundle for example, he praise hulk blindly and unconditionally for rare good race, not so spectacular actually in a car that matched Monza, while he NEVER ever showed such level of attitude to Perez and Kobayashi last year. Kobayashi had several 4th and 5th in more spectaclar fashion but he nor fans took no notice of them. In fact Brundle was obviously grumpy when Kobayashi was on podium at Suzuka last year, he was even teasing and wishing JB would catch Kobayashi.

 

I hope Hulk will get good seat too. But not at the expense of drivers like Kobayashi who showed and proved his worth more and better.



#18 grunge

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 14:46

Some drivers have easy career. Pundits, media and fans talk him up alot for occasional good race and put the rail for top team. 

 

Where were those people when drivers like Kobayashi and Perez did well finishing on 5th, 4th and on podiums? How very unfair F1 is.

Errr..Perez got himself a Mclaren on basis of just one good season..2012 when he only narrowly beat Kobayashi 66-60.

 

  In 2011,he was convincingly beaten by the same guy 30-14...Kobachop had more than double the points Perez managed

 

  Now in 2013,he's been given the chance to drive a top car(nobody knew Mclaren wouldnt make the top tier this year) and uptil now he is trailing Button by an embarrassing margin..48-18

  

    Infact he's total points only make 37 % of Buttons total,the most loop sided comparison amongst the top 7 teams right now in the WCC teams table...and the worst of all on the entire WCC table bar Sauber.,Not to mention all 5 WDCs on the grid have expressed their reservations driving with him wheel to wheel.

 

 

   Now lets Compare this to Hulks F1 record.

 

  2010

 

..debut year and was beaten by the veteran Barichello 47-22..but he had 4 mechanical failures compared to 2 of Chello..Australia=one of three cars taken out by a spinning Koba..China=Clutch failure..Spain=exhaust blows up...Japan=taken out by Perez at the Start

 

 ...results from the 2nd half of the season(last 9 races) were 26-20 in Chellos favour.. On average over the whole season was only 0.14 sec off Chello in Q3 qualifying laps...also secured Williams 1st pole since 05 at Sao Paulo.


 2011
 

..test driver for FI after being replaced by Maldo and his rich investors at Williams..refused offers from tail end teams

 2012

..crushed the overrated DiResta 60 to 43...
- Outqualified the Brit by 0.25 sec on average over the whole season 
- Also had 3 non finishes compared to DiResta's 1...in Aus =taken out at the start in incident involving Webber sliding back into him and a Caterham(iirc)....Italy=engine failure in Quali,brakes in race and then AD=race start crash involving 5 cars,one of which was Grogro..Diresta only had 1..Silverstone=collided with Grogro,got a puncture and retired.I'm not counting Brazil as he went into a wall.

2013

...He's currently beating Guiterrez 17-0....despite missing out on the inaugural Gp of 2013 with a fuel delivery issue.
-has outqualified him at very weekend..Average gap in Q3 laps is over 1 sec in favour of the Hulk.

 

In short his Pre F1 and F1 resume is very strong..he's only 26,yet hes no rookie...has driven 3 seasons in F1 which makes him experienced enough to step into a Ferrari..a couple of years with Alonso will only help him improve more..and when the Spaniard moves on/retires/ is replaced,NH would be there to step into his shoes.


Edited by grunge, 08 September 2013 - 14:52.


#19 coppilcus

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 14:46

He won't stay at sauber... The team follow the path of McLaren at ruining a pretty decent car, and with all the rules changing I don't se how dauber could produce a competitive car on 2014.

I see the money of the Russians and slim at sauber next year, Gutierrez has a long relationship with the team and deserves a second season at the team... So, where hike berg can go? Ferrari has announced that this week their driver lineup would be revilled...

Maybe Hulkenberg was over motivated this weekend for some strange reason?

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#20 bourbon

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 14:47

If Ferrari hire him, would they dump the #1 policy?  I think that was what was going to happen with Kimi and why Alonso got upset about it.  But if they want WCC points, they cannot bring Hulk in and treat him like they've treated Massa.  It will just take all of the fire out of the dude.  On the other hand, is he experienced and good enough to fight for the front with Alonso?



#21 lustigson

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 14:49

If they don't, somebody else will.

 

I'd like to see Hülkenberg at Ferrari, although I'm afraind they won't go for anyone less certain than Massa. You can say what you want about the Brazilian — and I, like many others, would've expected Ferrari to drop him last season, if not earlier — but at least he's a known quantity.

 

If they don't, somebody else will.

 

Sad thing is, if Ferrari stick with Massa, and Lotus stick with Räikkönen, where would that leave Hülkenberg? I'm afraid that there's hardly any room with higher-placed teams for him.



#22 nosecone

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 14:50

It would be a shame if he gets no drive for next year, but with the pay-driver issue it could be that this will happen.

I guess he wont drive at Ferrari. Maybe he will also not drive for Lotus. Force India could be a real option



#23 coppilcus

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 14:54

i'm talking about peoples reaction.
Take Brundle for example, he praise hulk blindly and unconditionally for rare good race, not so spectacular actually in a car that matched Monza, while he NEVER ever showed such level of attitude to Perez and Kobayashi last year. Kobayashi had several 4th and 5th in more spectaclar fashion but he nor fans took no notice of them. In fact Brundle was obviously grumpy when Kobayashi was on podium at Suzuka last year, he was even teasing and wishing JB would catch Kobayashi.
 
I hope Hulk will get good seat too. But not at the expense of drivers like Kobayashi who showed and proved his worth more and better.


But that's nothing to do with kamui... Brits over react about their own, quite a normal thing to do really, and all around the globe also. This year is harder to find interviews of Perez and his driving at a top team, oh, wait...

#24 KavB

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 15:04

Sad thing is, if Ferrari stick with Massa, and Lotus stick with Räikkönen, where would that leave Hülkenberg? I'm afraid that there's hardly any room with higher-placed teams for him.

Helmut Marko was asked who would replace Daniel next year and was asked if they would take any driver outside of their development program. He replied saying as long as they are a junior driver then they will be taken into consideration. 

 

Personally, if that situation does arise then I think it's between FI and Sauber. However Force India have no reason to drop either driver and they would understandably be hestitant to sign someone who left them after one season. Sirotkin seems likely to get a race seat, and even though Gutierrez has been quite poor I can see Sauber being desperate enough to re-sign him. 

 

Nico made a huge mistake leaving Force India. It was understandable to think they would be in financial troubles, but it was silly to not think Sauber would be suffering too. Vijay Mallya has said time and time again that he signs drivers purely based on talent and not on the money they bring. That's a nice security to have which Sauber and Williams both do not provide. 



#25 dreamer

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 15:10

Lotus, Ferrari or Williams



#26 Seanspeed

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 15:15

I'd like to see Hülkenberg at Ferrari, although I'm afraind they won't go for anyone less certain than Massa. You can say what you want about the Brazilian — and I, like many others, would've expected Ferrari to drop him last season, if not earlier — but at least he's a known quantity.

 

 

Sad thing is, if Ferrari stick with Massa, and Lotus stick with Räikkönen, where would that leave Hülkenberg? I'm afraid that there's hardly any room with higher-placed teams for him.

Yea, Ferrari do have a policy of not taking big risks with drivers, but I don't think Hulkenberg is really that big a risk at this point.

 

As for where he'd go if not at Lotus or Ferrari, then that's tough.  But the top teams will undeniably have their eye on him.  If not for 2014, then for 2015. 

If Ferrari hire him, would they dump the #1 policy?  I think that was what was going to happen with Kimi and why Alonso got upset about it.  But if they want WCC points, they cannot bring Hulk in and treat him like they've treated Massa.  It will just take all of the fire out of the dude.  On the other hand, is he experienced and good enough to fight for the front with Alonso?

Ferrari don't have a #1 policy. 

 

Ferrari have treated Massa fantastically all things considered.  Its not their fault Massa is always out of championship contention halfway through the season.



#27 eronrules

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 15:17

He won't stay at Sauber.

It all depends on Ferrari. If Ferrari will hire Raikkonen, then he will go to Lotus. Or they will hire the hulk

there is a third option ... Force india, either as a replacement for sutil or if Paul makes it to LotusF1, 

 

but ATM his options are between Ferrari or LotusF1



#28 muramasa

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 15:18

Kobachop

well let's look at Hulkrushenberg.

 

  2010

beaten quite comprehensively by Barrichello and quite unimpressive in a team he was loved and supported.

 

Australia=one of three cars taken out by a spinning Koba? lol, Kobayashi's front wing failure was down to design flaw. Kobayashi was victim as well. what's funny is Kobayashi himself was victim of crush like by Liuzzi too that year, so why ignore? pole at Sao Paulo?  yeah in a wet and drying condition. just perfect timing.

2012
what's funny is you say "crushed the overrated DiResta". Crushing overrated driver as a proof he's special?

Anyway he beat Di Resta who's beaten by Sutil who was comfortably beaten by Fisi who was destroyed by Alonso.

2013
outperforming Guti, who's a rookie who's considered mediocre at best, doesnt prove anything.

 

 

 

 

now looking at Kobayashi, just 2012 alone;

OZ
his rear wing flap was damaged at T1 of opening lap by Perez and was flipfloping for whole race

Malaysia
his rear damper was slowly failing from in the middle of FP3. Team could identify the problem only because he kept insisting sth was defo wrong with rear suspension for several hours after Quali.
In the race, he asked for wet tyres on lap 3 or so but team ordered him to stay out (eventually pitting lap 9 or so). When it was drying up, he asked for dry tyres earlier but again team ordered him to stay out. Eventually his brake failed and had to retire.

China
good quali. But during support race on sunday morning, a car put oil patch exactly on his starting position, which hindered his start apparently.

Spain
his Q2 best lap was set with right rear tyre being sprayed with leaking oil from his car. Without which he wouldve run at Q3 and started from better position and might have finished higher.

In the race, team gave him slow pitstops, releasing him behind he wouldve overtaken by under-cutting, hence he had to risk overtaking on track. Besides, Sauber car had such poor traction that he couldnt come close even with DRS open, hence he had to risk at hairpin.

Monaco
taken off at St devote several sec after the start. Also, he insisted different tyre choice for Quali than team's recommendation. and it turns out that his choice seemed to be correct.

Canada
stuck behind Kimi and di Resta for long time at critical point of the race, which cost him 15sec at minimum. Plus team changed strategy from 2 stopper to 1 stopper in the middle of the race. SS>S 1 stopper was the strategy that was meant to fail in the first place. Plus, before the race, he insisted 1 stopper strongly, same as his teammate's, but the team denied it.

 

Valencia

sure he crushed into Massa eventually, but again team gave him slow pitstop releasing him behind slower cars, forcing him to take unnecessary risks.

 

Spa

Kamui's start was screwed, again by team's error in crutch setting on Kamui's car. Then both Kobayashi and Perez race at Spa was ruined by Gro. If not for the crutch issue, Kobayashi couldve escaped the incident (Perez was crashed out there too, but damage was bigger for Kamui who started from 2nd. Anyway Sauber lost big points there).

 

India

his KERS failed during Q2

 

Abu Dhabi

He had rather severe trouble in KERS and downshifting during race

Besides above, he had minor bad lucks here and there, like slow pitstop (like 8sec instead of 5), questioning strategic call (earlier than planned pitstop despite his good pace), all resulted in lost position and time at critical timing. Also races like Barcelona and Germany, he had to stuck behind slower car for many laps despite having pace and good strategy. Kamui just is without luck, almost miracle-esque.

 

 

 

"In short his Pre F1 and F1 resume is very strong..he's only 26,yet hes no rookie...has driven 3 seasons in F1 which makes him experienced enough to step into a Ferrari..a couple of years with Alonso will only help him improve more..and when the Spaniard moves on/retires/ is replaced,NH would be there to step into his shoes."

 

well I'd say exacly the same for Kobayashi.



#29 aray

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 15:20

he is a great talent,but i fear he will have to stay at Sauber for another year..... :well:

Lotus surely will go for a pay-driver if Kimi leaves....



#30 Ferras

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 15:21

 

  2010

 

..debut year and was beaten by the veteran Barichello 47-22..but he had 4 mechanical failures compared to 2 of Chello..Australia=one of three cars taken out by a spinning Koba..China=Clutch failure..Spain=exhaust blows up...Japan=taken out by Perez at the Start

 

 ...results from the 2nd half of the season(last 9 races) were 26-20 in Chellos favour.. On average over the whole season was only 0.14 sec off Chello in Q3 qualifying laps...also secured Williams 1st pole since 05 at Sao Paulo.

 

Which Perez? the one in the grid now debuted in 2011



#31 jrg19

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 15:23

4th season/4th team.



#32 Seanspeed

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 15:24

Why is Kobayashi being talked about? 

 

Oh right, muramasa is posting. 



#33 goingthedistance

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 15:31

He's special.

In terms of likelihood of where he'll end up IMO:

30% Lotus (if RAI goes to Ferrari, and Maldonaldo doesn't beat him to it with his $)
20% Ferrari (better than Massa and less threatening than RAI)
15% McLaren (neither BUT or PER have had their options picked up yet according to Brundle just now)
15% STR Marko is an admirer and wants him in the program. But a step backwards. Only if he misses out on the top teams.
10% Force India
10% unemployed again/test driver.

#34 jrg19

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 15:32

Could we see Maldonado and Hulk at Lotus, dropping Grosjean?

 

Grosjean takes his Total money to Williams?



#35 Anderis

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 16:28

Muramasa's attitude towards Kobayashi really reminds me marcoferrari and Alguersuari. Bashing everybody around because it seems many appreciate other drivers over his favourite one.

 

We will see how the situation evolves. If Hulk ends up at Ferrari or Lotus and Kobayashi remains out of F1 for next year, it will mean those who actually matter in F1 think Hulk deserves his chance before Kamui. I might be wrong on this, but they know arguably more than anybody on this forum so I'm going to trust them.

 

I also disagree that Fisichella beat Sutil comfortably. It was really close between them head-to head, actually Sutil has been in front more times in qualifying since mid 2008 and I would say 4 out of 6 most imperssive Force India performances in 2008-2009 (discounting those after Fisi left of course) were down to Sutil.

 

You, muramasa, has pointed how much bad luck did Kobayashi have in 2012. It's easy to remember bad luck of your favourite driver and ignore other's because you pay attention to one driver. I can list how much bad luck did Hulkenberg have in 2010. Let's see:

- Australia- taken out by collision without his fault.

- Malayisia- had some problems with steering and his pit stop was 11 seconds long instead of 4. Yet, he finished in points in the car that was not performing well at that point of the season.

- China- needed to run out of a circuit in order to not being caught by 1st lap pile-up. Then his team got it totally wrong with strategy, putting him on slicks just at the time when it started to rain more.

- Spain- unusual damage of the car put him out of the points after was a promising start of the race.\

- Monaco- crashed due to front wing problem (which wasn't his fault)

- European GP- qualified 8th in front of Rubens and lost position to him on 1st lap due to dirty side of the grid. Then he lost time waiting for pit stop behind Barrichello under SC and had a car fauilure at the end of the race. He could well have been in this 4th place instead of Rubens, they performances were equal that weekend.

- Belgium- China-like very wrong decision on tyres in changeable conditions after what was a decent start for the race.

- Italy- Finished 7th well in front of Rubens despite brake issues. Had those issues not happened, he would've likely kept at least this 6th place in front of Webber.

- Singapore- 5 places penalty on the grid due to gearbox issue.

- Japan- hit by Petrov on 1st lap.

- Korea- punctured few laps to go running 6th.

 

 

He also beat Rubens in points in the last 9 races and qualified twice in top5 when Rubens did it 0 times.



#36 Atreiu

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 16:33

McLaren should snatch him and it doesn't really matters who has to leave. He seems clearly at least on par with Button and better than Perez.



#37 katmen

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 16:35

Could we see Maldonado and Hulk at Lotus, dropping Grosjean?

 

Grosjean takes his Total money to Williams?

williams are mercedes engined team next team, so no total which is bound to renault 



#38 artista

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 16:35

Lotus

#39 coppilcus

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 16:35

Could we see Maldonado and Hulk at Lotus, dropping Grosjean?
 
Grosjean takes his Total money to Williams?


Indeed... Forgot about Maldonado completely, pdvsa's money won't be at Williams next year!

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#40 Ricardo F1

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 16:37

Ferrari if they've any sense.  I have this looming fear though that Massa will pull out his photos of Stefano and threaten to publish them again and he'll stay on.



#41 Module

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 16:52

Writen in your post..

 

He's special.

In terms of likelihood of where he'll end up IMO:

30% Lotus (if RAI goes to Ferrari, and Maldonaldo doesn't beat him to it with his $)

Module: Williams insists on them having a contract but could be that they just want to be compensated for loosing him(maldonado) so it is a big risk. Maldonados supporters would probably love to see him in Lotus
20% Ferrari (better than Massa and less threatening than RAI)

No way. Ferrari isn't a breeder, they want a proven driver and for a chonge like 2014 there are 3 "Ferrari-drivers" Kimi, Massa and Alonso. Nobody else is an option.
15% McLaren (neither BUT or PER have had their options picked up yet according to Brundle just now) Telmex problems? If they won't be a title-sponsor I could see them dumping Perez. Button seems to be safe but some reports say that he is seeking higher pay so they play their end.
15% STR Marko is an admirer and wants him in the program. But a step backwards. Only if he misses out on the top teams.

Marko wanting to take an established driver over his juniors? After dumpin Kimi for a driver from his program? Really? I could have understood passing the program for Kimi or Alonso in the main team but not for STR
10% Force India

I could see that happening, for example pushing Sutil out.
10% unemployed again/test driver.

 

I really liked your post and how you presented procents... Heres my take

 

35 % Lotus

35 % Force India

10 % Williams (would be bad for Bottas as they need one paydriver)

20 % unemployed



#42 Tron

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 17:01

Hoping for Ferrari, but most likely will be at Renualt, I mean Lotus.



#43 Kobasmashi

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 17:04

well let's look at Hulkrushenberg...

[


Mate, are you, like, really bevvied or something?

#44 muramasa

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 17:09

Muramasa's attitude towards Kobayashi really reminds me marcoferrari and Alguersuari. Bashing everybody around because it seems many appreciate other drivers over his favourite one.

 

We will see how the situation evolves. If Hulk ends up at Ferrari or Lotus and Kobayashi remains out of F1 for next year, it will mean those who actually matter in F1 think Hulk deserves his chance before Kamui. I might be wrong on this, but they know arguably more than anybody on this forum so I'm going to trust them.

laughable.

I argue with actual fact. If you think Brundle attitude is not unfair and all Kobayashi's bad luck is false, you should counter with presenting facts, not by putting me certain label. Also, why do you miss my remark that Hulk deserves top seat, in the first place?  On purpose to suit your agenda?

Also my Hulkrushberg remark was in response to silly Kobachop remark. I would never say that alone. Why do you ignore the obvious context?

 

Also bash everyone around? I never did. Look and read my all post and you'll see. I can bet my house that you are wrong and I'm not such a poster you are describing me as.

Just laughable. If anything, Andris, I remember that you are one of posters who actively bothered to come to every Kobayashi related threads to post ONLY negative comments about Kobayashi. So you are the one who have clear agenda.

 

Above are clear for everyone to see. Past posts are the concrete proof.

 

Also, take those who actually matter in F1 to support your claim? So you think current situation where Kovalainen etc dropped in favour of pay drivers is appropriate thing? Also, I agree with the opinion itself that  Hulk should already be at Ferrari instead of Massa, or at Lotus instead of Gro.

I repeat that I want him to be in good seat. Just saying Kobayashi deserves such chance equally, and pointing out the mere fact that some people apply different set of standard when it comes to evaluating drivers, and think it's sad that they are direct competitor for good seat in current F1. In 00s, drivers who then had unproven potential could always find good seat easily. I'm talking about drivers like Ralf, Trulli, Fisi, DC, Kova etc. they might not have been top tier driver, but at least had been given enough chance.



#45 Kobasmashi

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 17:12

Brundle (along with the whole paddock) sung Perez's praises last year, and he loved Kobayashi's spirit and style. It's very difficult to do the same to those two guys this year because one of them got a top drive (and is still not up to speed with Button), and the other isn't in F1 any more!

This season, out of the midfield, Hülkenberg has had probably the single most impressive season, and he's also shown talent in previous years.

#46 grunge

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 17:25

Which Perez? the one in the grid now debuted in 2011

Atleast try and read the post carefully...The quoted portion is Hulkenberg's record,not Perez



#47 sopa

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 17:40

Hulkenberg's problem is that he has been at the wrong place at a wrong time. If Ferrari is not available and Hulkenberg can join Lotus, the nightmare scenario for him is that Lotus due to financial issues and new rules will drop to midfield and no better than Force India or Sauber. And he will AGAIN be sad that he had switched teams without getting performance promotion.

 

If Hulk has a Lotus offer on the table, should he sign only a 1-year-deal? To make himself available for top teams for 2015 yet again. What do you think?



#48 grunge

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 17:52

Australia=one of three cars taken out by a spinning Koba? lol, Kobayashi's front wing failure was down to design flaw. Kobayashi was victim as well. what's funny is Kobayashi himself was victim of crush like by Liuzzi too that year, so why ignore? pole at Sao Paulo?  yeah in a wet and drying condition. just perfect timing.

 

now looking at Kobayashi, just 2012 alone;

 

Hokay Firstly my post had nothing to do with Kobayashi...It was a direct comparison between Perez and Hulkenberg..I dont even know how you managed to fit Kobayashi into all of this..The only mention of him in my entire post was when i was describing what happened to Nico at the Australian GP in 2010.Kobayashi did spin and cause that incident however nowhere did i mention he was to blame for the spin itself and that it wasnt a mechanical issue..That was irrelevant as i was only trying to explain how Hulkenberg's weekend ended.

 

well let's look at Hulkrushenberg.

 

 My use of the term ''Kobachop'' was purely based on what he was popularly referred to as at these forums during his F1 stint..It was an endearing term more than anything else..I actually like the guy and prefer him over both Perez and DiResta...

 

  

beaten quite comprehensively by Barrichello and quite unimpressive in a team he was loved and supported.

 

 

2012
what's funny is you say "crushed the overrated DiResta". Crushing overrated driver as a proof he's special?

Anyway he beat Di Resta who's beaten by Sutil who was comfortably beaten by Fisi who was destroyed by Alonso.

2013
outperforming Guti, who's a rookie who's considered mediocre at best, doesnt prove anything.

 

 Im fairly certain you yourself realize how biased this account of yers is...Ive analysed his Rookie season in detail in my previous post.but just to put the point across again

 

 1-Hulk had twice the no of mechanical/unprovoked incidents that lead to race retirements as compared to Barrichello...4 to 2.

 

 2.The rest of the weekends were also mostly marred by incidents like car issues,Punctures,Steering issues and Messy pitstops

 

 3.Inspite of being in his rookie season against a genuine F1 veteran,he was on average only 0.1 seconds off Chello's average Q3 lap times over the entire season.

 

 4.During the last 9 races of the season,He trailed Chello 26-20 which was a clear sign that he was getting the measure of the Brazilian more and more as he adjusted to F1.

 

 5.You put down his pole in Sao Paolo to Wet and Lucky conditions..Surely he wasnt the only midfield/lower tier car driving around in those conditions..What stopped the rest of the grid from taking that pole then?

 

 As far as his 2012 season is concerned,i used the word ''overrated'' for DiResta cause i truly believe he isnt nearly as good as Hulkenberg...yet he is all the BBC/Sky commentary team and the Press seem to care about at weekends..Hulk's 2012 season,beating the Brit by a handsome margin proves that point.So if DiResta's name can be mentioned again and again in the Press when Mclaren were about to sign Hamilton's replacement i wonder what more does poor Hulkenberg need to do to prove he deserves a chance too, ahead of the likes of Perez and DiResta.


Edited by grunge, 08 September 2013 - 18:02.


#49 JHSingo

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 18:04

Where to next?

 

Singapore, like everyone else.

 

 

 

 

(Sorry, couldn't resist :p)



#50 TheUltimateWorrier

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Posted 08 September 2013 - 19:05

I like Hulkenberg, but I worry if he moves to Lotus or somewhere he's going to make another wrong decision. I get the impression that he might end up like Alesi - incredible talent but wrong decisions in hindsight - or like Webber and end up in a phenomenal team towards the end of his career.

 

 

@ Muramusa. Kobayashi was one of my favourite drivers on the grid, but he blew it last year. Whilst the Sauber wasn't brilliant, he should have been scoring more top ten finishes. He took his place on the grid for granted.

 



 

 As far as his 2012 season is concerned,i used the word ''overrated'' for DiResta cause i truly believe he isnt nearly as good as Hulkenberg...yet he is all the BBC/Sky commentary team and the Press seem to care about at weekends..


That's a bit unfair, Brundle absolutely loves Hulk. He's been singing his praises for a good while now. 

 


 

 

Hulk's 2012 season,beating the Brit by a handsome margin proves that point.So if DiResta's name can be mentioned again and again in the Press when Mclaren were about to sign Hamilton's replacement i wonder what more does poor Hulkenberg need to do to prove he deserves a chance too, ahead of the likes of Perez and DiResta.

 

Because after Singapore, when Hamilton announced his decision to leave, Di Resta was leading Hulk 44 points - 31 points. That's hardly 'crushing' his teammate. Imo, you're a bit harsh on Di Resta as it was a pretty close teammate battle until the final few races.