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Hulkenberg: Where to, will he be in F1 in 2014? [Merged]


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#301 Anderis

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 15:27

There is a funny thing I've realised yesterday.

 

We've spent half of the year thinking and talking that Hulk has made a mistake stwitching Force India to Sauber, but now he has more points than Sutil and is likely to beat di Resta in the final standings too, given how the situation evolves recently. :p



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#302 SpeedRacer`

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 15:49

What? People have been talking Hulkenberg up since before his F1 debut. His first season was rocky, but he had some genuinely impressive drives like his pole in Brazil that year. Last year, he was one of the highlights of the season at Force India, and he's looked great all year long this season despite the Sauber having some pretty rocky periods in terms of pace. There is no bandwagon, Hulkenberg is just good.

 

I think people were underestimating Barrichello as a teammate in 2010. In 2009 second half he was very fast, faster than Button and he was Macca's second choice ahead of third choice Button.



#303 Group B

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 15:51

There is a funny thing I've realised yesterday.

 

We've spent half of the year thinking and talking that Hulk has made a mistake stwitching Force India to Sauber, but now he has more points than Sutil and is likely to beat di Resta in the final standings too, given how the situation evolves recently. :p

 

 

Yep, Sauber now an upper midfield car, while the FI is looking to hold off the backmarkers. Certainly a huge swing.


Edited by Group B, 07 October 2013 - 15:52.


#304 SealTheDiffuser

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 15:51

Yep, Sauber now an upper midfield car, while the FI is looking to hold off the backmarkers. Certainly a huge swing.

 

tyres tyres tyres



#305 Alfisti

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 16:04

He is the best drive rI have seen come onto the scene since Vettel. Perez and KK were a bit hit and miss and seemed to rely on strategy, race craft a concern for both of them. Perez's failure to put Button behind him on pace alone is a concern. Hulkenberg has been great this year, an absolute beast, he has that sixth sense of where to put his car. Would absolutely love to see him in a Mclaren.

#306 sopa

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 18:00

Yeah. Gutierrez made Q3, but he is very underrated driver and I rate him above di Resta, for example. Looking at average gaps in race between them and Hulk, I have to.

 

Umm, that's a bit optimistic. Gutierrez has a lot to prove he is a match to someone like di Resta. Starting scoring some results for starters. Even if di Resta performs for half a year, Gutierrez has to show he can perform, get points and match his team-mate at all. Big difference.



#307 grunge

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 18:01

Hulk thinks his future is still in the balance

http://www.planetf1....t-change-future

#308 totgate

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 18:23

It would be a great loss for F1 and it fans if Hulkenberg dont get a competitive drive for 2014......



#309 DS27

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 18:33

Since the departure of MS, I have mainly been following / cheering for Hulkenberg. I thoroughly enjoyed the last GP, mainly because of his drive.

 

If a driver with his talent can't get a decent drive for next year, then the appeal of F1 will go to an all time low for me - low enough not to bother watching at least some of the races for the first time in 40 years.



#310 Group B

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 18:36

Since the departure of MS, I have mainly been following / cheering for Hulkenberg. I thoroughly enjoyed the last GP, mainly because of his drive.

 

If a driver with his talent can't get a decent drive for next year, then the appeal of F1 will go to an all time low for me - low enough not to bother watching at least some of the races for the first time in 40 years.

 

That makes two of us; it really would be an epic fail.



#311 sharo

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 18:41

Count me in too.



#312 Anderis

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 19:08

Umm, that's a bit optimistic. Gutierrez has a lot to prove he is a match to someone like di Resta. Starting scoring some results for starters. Even if di Resta performs for half a year, Gutierrez has to show he can perform, get points and match his team-mate at all. Big difference.

Yes, that is optimistic. But di Resta was something like 25-30 seconds behind Hulkenberg on race distance on average in the second half of the 2012, and now Gutierrez is something like 10 seconds behind Hulk on average. All things considered, I honestly believe Gutierrez has more potential, although I'm not a fan of him.



#313 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 19:40

There is a funny thing I've realised yesterday.

 

We've spent half of the year thinking and talking that Hulk has made a mistake stwitching Force India to Sauber, but now he has more points than Sutil and is likely to beat di Resta in the final standings too, given how the situation evolves recently. :p

If it wasn't for the tyres swap, Sauber would still be fighting Williams and Force India might be ahead of McLaren still.



#314 No brain no pain

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 19:51

Lotus seems to be having some money problems, which is why Raikonen left.  Romain brings Total sponsorship.  They are looking at Massa who apparently has some sponsorship from Brazil.  Without money, Lotus looks unlikely, unless they find some other sponsorship source, or a new owner (Renault) which allows them to take a driver that doesn't bring money.

Renault might make the Lotus F1 Team more of an "official" factory-team; or simply buy the whole team and rename it.



#315 Fastcake

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 20:55

If it wasn't for the tyres swap, Sauber would still be fighting Williams and Force India might be ahead of McLaren still.

 

That's probably right. It doesn't seem likely that Sauber and Force India would essentially trade places over the course of a couple of races.



#316 RedOne

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 20:58

As Alonso said Hulkenberg is driving superbly and I sincerely hope he is in a competitive seat next year, he is a future WDC. I haven't seen enough in Perez as he's still inexperienced and not as consistent to see if he will become just as good. I've seen what Perez can do in a Mclaren and some of his race craft has been questionable, I would like to see what Hulk could do if the seat is there..

#317 metz

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 21:35

Renault might make the Lotus F1 Team more of an "official" factory-team; or simply buy the whole team and rename it.

Why would Renault buy Lotus when they can ride the Red Bull coattails of success and get paid for it?



#318 Fastcake

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Posted 07 October 2013 - 22:17

Why would Renault buy Lotus when they can ride the Red Bull coattails of success and get paid for it?

 

I've seen this mooted around a few places. The idea behind it is that being an engine manufacturer still costs Renault a lot of money, but the amount of benefit they get out of it now, compared to what they got before has fallen more than the money saved. Acquiring a minority stake in Lotus and rebranding them, but not fully funding and operating the team, will give them more exposure while not costing considerably more. It would certainly stabilise the Enstone team and mean they wouldn't be reliant on pay-drivers, giving Hulkenberg a chance to drive there. 

 

It's essentially the same idea that led to them being called "Lotus" in the first place. Except this time it won't be run by a jumped-up marketing spiv like Dany Baha and leave the team under a name that has absolutely nothing to do with it. 



#319 sopa

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 08:04

Yes, that is optimistic. But di Resta was something like 25-30 seconds behind Hulkenberg on race distance on average in the second half of the 2012, and now Gutierrez is something like 10 seconds behind Hulk on average. All things considered, I honestly believe Gutierrez has more potential, although I'm not a fan of him.

 

As said, we have to count whole seasons, not part-seasons. Do you think di Resta would have been that far behind Hulkenberg early in 2013? He was in good form.

 

If 2013 version of di Resta and 2013v Gutierrez were paired in a team-mate battle, di Resta would come out on top quite comfortably. Future? I don't think Gutierrez has that much potential, I suspect he is another Nakajima.



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#320 molpid

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 11:08

Boulier:

“We’re more interested in the talent and potential of a driver rather than the difference of a few kilos,” he said.

“We have confidence in our development team to be able to produce a car for the 2014 regulations which should be competitive in the hands of any driver we consider for next year.”

 

 

http://www.f1fanatic...river-boullier/



#321 PNSD

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 11:13

Why would Renault buy Lotus when they can ride the Red Bull coattails of success and get paid for it?

 

Infiniti

 

edit - more specifically.

 

Nissan own Renault, and Infiniti. 

 

Nissan use RBR to represent their Infiniti brand.


Edited by PNSD, 08 October 2013 - 11:14.


#322 scheivlak

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 11:33

 

 

Nissan own Renault, and Infiniti. 

.

 

Own?

 

Nissan has a 15% stake of Renault, while Renault has a 43.5 % stake in Nissan.



#323 Tron

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 11:55

Own?

 

Nissan has a 15% stake of Renault, while Renault has a 43.5 % stake in Nissan.

 

Yeah, I was wondering where Nissan owns Renualt, as it was Nissan that needed capital years ago, which was a shoot out between Renualt and Fiat, with Fiat later joined arms with the Americans instead.


Edited by Tron, 08 October 2013 - 11:56.


#324 Tron

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 11:57

The only reason Renualt would want to have a proper works team, is for status to win the titles in their engineering ballpark, turbo engines, and take full credit instead of sharing it with Redbull or Lotus...


Edited by Tron, 10 October 2013 - 11:42.


#325 No brain no pain

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 15:24

http://www.espn.co.u...ory/128789.html



#326 redreni

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 19:09

I definitely think the Hulk ought to be able to get a competitive drive ideally. I think he‘s better than Ricciardo and Perez and Grosjean at least. He can‘t get in at Red Bull because he‘s too good, and he won‘t get in at Mclaren primarily because Perez is better backed than the Hulk. I think Whitmarsh is bullshitting everyone when he suggests the Hulk is too heavy to drive for Mclaren. It‘s no good being a few kilos lighter if you keep crashing or getting pinged by the stewards, as Perez does. Maybe he will go to Enstone, although he might be better off staying put: at least with Sirotkin in the other car he‘ll know his pay cheque won‘t bounce. There are no such guarantees at Team Vulture Capital.

On the weight thing, I learned something earlier in the season when Ekstrom got tossed out of the DTM race at Nuremberg for having water poured into his overalls just before he got weighed post-race, namely that in DTM tall and heavy drivers are protected from disadvantage by the existence of a minimum driver weight, whereby drivers that come in below the minimum weight limit have to compensate with seat-mounted ballast. This means lighter drivers can‘t use the extra ballast they have at their disposal to improve weight distribution and balance: if the extra ballast has to go in the seat, the team might just as well sign a heavier driver.

Maybe a similar system could work in F1? Perhaps if ballast can‘t be placed between the seat-back and the bulkhead, it could be incorporated within the cockpit insert that goes in over and around the driver‘s shoulders?

#327 Anderis

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 19:59

As said, we have to count whole seasons, not part-seasons. Do you think di Resta would have been that far behind Hulkenberg early in 2013? He was in good form.

 

If 2013 version of di Resta and 2013v Gutierrez were paired in a team-mate battle, di Resta would come out on top quite comfortably.

I have a strong suspicion he wouldn't come out on top comfortably. Otherwise I wouldn't even mention anything about them in comparison. People assume di Resta would've beaten Gutierrez comfortably and that's the assumption I refuse to use based on what I've seen. I'm not sure if Gutierrez would've beaten di Resta, but I'm sure it wouldn't be a domination from Paul.

 

I'm sure Hulk was a bit rusty early in the 2012 season. When he returned to his top form, he was putting on di Resta more gap on average that he is putting now on Gutierrez (considering the whole current season, not only last 3 or 4 races). That period of 10-11 races in 2012 is quite big and can't be unterestimated just because it was only part of the season. It makes sense to assume Hulk was not as good at the beginning of 2012 as he was at the end of 2012 AND the beginning of 2013. He hadn't participated a single race for around 16 months between late 2010 and early 2012. So di Resta-Hulk comparison from early 2012 is a bit misleading, second half of the season gave better view on driver's actual capabilities IMO.

 

And that comparison between Hulk-di Resta-Gutierrez puts the last one in much better light than most of people would expect based on their gut feeling. If there is a di Resta-Gutierrez driver pairing in 2014, my money would be on Esteban to come out on top. I'm honest and I'm not a fan of Gutierrez or a hater of di Resta. This is how I really see it.
 

Gutierrez has been within 10-15 seconds of Hulkenberg over a race distanse more often than not this season. To beat Gutierrez comfortably, di Resta would pretty much need to be at least a match for Hulk. Would that happen? I don't think so.


Edited by Anderis, 08 October 2013 - 20:02.


#328 Tron

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Posted 08 October 2013 - 20:16

If Hulk rejected Sauber's extension after Korea, clearly he has something else and most likely better lined up.



#329 No brain no pain

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 10:39

He has several options, very good ones as well. I'm still not sure at all that Alonso will be racing a Ferrari in 2014 either. The silly season won't be over for a while IMHO.



#330 Sanman59

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 11:19

Mclaren are suddenly interested again!

http://grandprix247....nberg-for-2014/

#331 metz

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 11:47

McLaren?

German driver?

Ain't gona happen.



#332 apoka

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 12:00

Mclaren are suddenly interested again!

http://grandprix247....nberg-for-2014/

 

It will really depend on how much money Perez brings to the team. Currently, Hulk has more points in a Sauber than Perez in a McLaren, so I think he would be a good choice. Perez will, of course, improve next year as well, but hasn't made a big step so far in the second half of the season.



#333 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 17:43

Apparently he's given Lotus an ultimatum. Wise?

 


Nico Hulkenberg has told Lotus he wants his Formula 1 future sorted out by the end of this month.

His recent impressive form has made him hot property on the driver market - and several teams including Lotus and Force India are eager to lure him away from Sauber for next season.

 

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/110465



#334 redreni

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 18:01

Apparently he's given Lotus an ultimatum. Wise?
 

 
http://www.autosport...t.php/id/110465


Looking at it from the outside, if I were him, of the realistic possibilities, my first choice would be Mclaren, second choice Sauber, third choice Genii. I don‘t necessarily fancy the Renault engine, and I would want paying.

#335 Atreiu

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 18:15

McLaren?

German driver?

Ain't gona happen.

 

They had an Austrian WDC once... Austrian, German, who cares if he's talented?



#336 F1ultimate

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 21:28

Anyone would be a fool to think that Mclaren are not considering Hulkenberg. With Honda building the team an engine for 2015, the pressures on a good lead driver will only grow as we edge closer to next year. Perez has been mediocre since he signed for Mclaren and Jenson has tops another 2 seasons left in F1. Hulkenberg appears fit to replace either of them.



#337 F.M.

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 21:53

We can probably scrap Force India from the list for now, since they will only start discussing drivers in November and Hulk wants to have a deal done and dusted before that.



#338 DarthWillie

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 21:55

Apparently he's given Lotus an ultimatum. Wise?

 

 

 

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/110465

yes, he runs the risk of ending up without a drive. Good to see Nico taking control



#339 redreni

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Posted 09 October 2013 - 22:14

Anyone would be a fool to think that Mclaren are not considering Hulkenberg. With Honda building the team an engine for 2015, the pressures on a good lead driver will only grow as we edge closer to next year. Perez has been mediocre since he signed for Mclaren and Jenson has tops another 2 seasons left in F1. Hulkenberg appears fit to replace either of them.


I think Mclaren‘s difficulty in signing anyone to replace Perez for next season is that their title sponsorship is running out, we don‘t know if the rumoured new title sponsorship deal is done or, if it is done, whether it is worth as much as the old one, they are going to finish fifth in the WCC leading to a considerable fall in FOM revenue, and they are employing a world champion driver, presumably on a salary that befits his status. They may well be unable to manage without a second driver that brings money to the team. Maybe that will change in 2015 if they can get Honda to support them on a kind of semi-works basis, maybe providing extra budget in return for equity in the team.

If they need a new lead driver for 2015 (and to me, that depends on Button‘s motivation as much as anything, because he is fit enough to carry on as long as Schumacher did if he wants to) then they can get one this time next year. I don‘t see the Hulk signing for more than a year, maybe with options for a second year on both sides subject to performance clauses. He shouldn‘t commit himself because, wherever he goes, he may pull the short straw in the engine manufacturer war. So I would expect him to be available again next year.

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#340 eronrules

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 04:06

this is getting borderline farcical ... when a driver like perez finds a seat within one week, and hulkenberg can't find a worthy seat for 3 seasons .... i feel like weeping  :cry:

 

 

 

“If someone is interested in me,” he is quoted by Switzerland’s 20min.ch, “they surely have been watching me for quite some time, not just one race.”
“It’s a possibility for us to keep him,” team boss Monisha Kaltenborn admitted. (but i don't thint Hulkenberg wants to stay at sauber TBH)

 

 

Hulkenberg is quoted by DPA news agency: “My mobile is on.” (GMM) 

 

now only if Fernando goes to Mclaren and Nico goes to Ferrari ... what ... i can dream, can't i ....  :(



#341 eronrules

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 04:18

a twist in the Hulk-LOtus tale  :|

 

Maldonado interested in Lotus seat for 2014

 

 

He may have a watertight contract with Williams, but Pastor Maldonado has itchy feet at the team who have under-performed massively this season.

On Wednesday of Auto Motor und Sport, made the claim, reporting that the Venezuelan has made an approach to Lotus about replacing the Ferrari-bound Kimi Raikkonen.

Maldonado clearly wants out, and said: “This year I’m here. Next year I don’t know where I’ll be.”

 

the deal with williamsF1 is worth 35 million quids per year (till 2015), and though williamsF1 men in blacks say the contract is water-tight, is it oil-tight as well??? 



#342 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 06:20

Alan Baldwin @alanbaldwinf1
Nico Hulkenberg says he has not set Lotus a deadline. Just wants 'clarification and certainty' by the end of October.


#343 Kelateboy

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 06:36

 

Alan Baldwin @alanbaldwinf1
Nico Hulkenberg says he has not set Lotus a deadline. Just wants 'clarification and certainty' by the end of October.

 

 

He backtracked.  :D

 

This is not drivers' market anymore. Top drivers are being paid millions, but those on the fringes are barely getting paid or drive for free (personal sponsorship). If I were Lotus, I will be seriously looking at Maldonado if he can get Venezuala oil company to get out from their contract obligations with Williams F1.



#344 sopa

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 10:11

I have a strong suspicion he wouldn't come out on top comfortably. Otherwise I wouldn't even mention anything about them in comparison. People assume di Resta would've beaten Gutierrez comfortably and that's the assumption I refuse to use based on what I've seen. I'm not sure if Gutierrez would've beaten di Resta, but I'm sure it wouldn't be a domination from Paul.

 

I'm sure Hulk was a bit rusty early in the 2012 season. When he returned to his top form, he was putting on di Resta more gap on average that he is putting now on Gutierrez (considering the whole current season, not only last 3 or 4 races). That period of 10-11 races in 2012 is quite big and can't be unterestimated just because it was only part of the season. It makes sense to assume Hulk was not as good at the beginning of 2012 as he was at the end of 2012 AND the beginning of 2013. He hadn't participated a single race for around 16 months between late 2010 and early 2012. So di Resta-Hulk comparison from early 2012 is a bit misleading, second half of the season gave better view on driver's actual capabilities IMO.

 

And that comparison between Hulk-di Resta-Gutierrez puts the last one in much better light than most of people would expect based on their gut feeling. If there is a di Resta-Gutierrez driver pairing in 2014, my money would be on Esteban to come out on top. I'm honest and I'm not a fan of Gutierrez or a hater of di Resta. This is how I really see it.
 

Gutierrez has been within 10-15 seconds of Hulkenberg over a race distanse more often than not this season. To beat Gutierrez comfortably, di Resta would pretty much need to be at least a match for Hulk. Would that happen? I don't think so.

 

Okay, fair enough, I see where you are coming from.

 

Although I am not sure the "seconds" count is often entirely fair. For example in the middle of Korean Grand Prix there was safety car. I don't remember safety cars in many of the latter stage of 2012 races, when Hulkenberg was putting in significant gaps between himself and di Resta. I think the amount of cars that are between two drivers from the same team is also an indication and Gutierrez is always some way behind Hulkenberg in this respect.

 

Until there is a race in which Gutierrez can legitimetaly compete against Hulkenberg till the end, I remain doubtful. At least di Resta did it and had a very strong race in Singapore (4th in 2012), which was already second half of 2012, when Hulkenberg was in good form as you say.



#345 Anderis

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 11:30

Although I am not sure the "seconds" count is often entirely fair. For example in the middle of Korean Grand Prix there was safety car. I don't remember safety cars in many of the latter stage of 2012 races, when Hulkenberg was putting in significant gaps between himself and di Resta. I think the amount of cars that are between two drivers from the same team is also an indication and Gutierrez is always some way behind Hulkenberg in this respect.

Korean Grand Prix is not representative at all. Gutierrez was badly hampered by 1st lap chaos and that was without his fault IIRC.

 

But I remember I checked lap times from all races some time ago and there was a string of 7 or so races in row in which Gutierrez wasn't beaten or wasn't going to be beaten by more than 15 seconds, considering SCs and all of the misfortunes Nico had. To compare: di Resta was beaten by at least 20 seconds in his every race post Singapore in 2012 (apart from Abu Dhabi, where Hulk was eliminated on lap1). And there was a SC in Brasil. :)



#346 Tron

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 11:44

I feel the Hulk to Lotus accouncement is being delayed as it might no longer be Lotus, but Renault instead.


Edited by Tron, 10 October 2013 - 14:27.


#347 No brain no pain

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 14:13

I feel the Hulk to Lotus accouncement is being dealyed as it might no longer be Lotus, but Renault instead.

Bouiller states that he will sign/wants HUL if possible, but only if Genii can afford him, which they can't at the moment. 



#348 Tron

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 14:29

Bouiller states that he will sign/wants HUL if possible, but only if Genii can afford him, which they can't at the moment. 

 

Well then, lets hope this Renault buying Genii truly is solid. I would like to see them back as a works team, and with a German vs a Frenchman in the same car looking for their first wins, is sweet to resist.



#349 Tron

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 20:05

Still not convinced... But if a sponsor's buys Alonso out of Ferrari, Hulk still a candidate at Ferrari!

 

http://www.blick.ch/...-id2472475.html



#350 Tosh

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 06:18

Give that guy a top car! He is up there with the big guys :)