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F1 2013 Championship


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#1 Schuttelberg

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 13:16

Hello everyone! I need to be very careful starting a topic around here, as last time I started one, it almost created a fight. I really am curious to know about the opinions of most F1 fans, specially Vettel fans. Please note, I have no intent of bash anyone, it's just curiosity to know whether all Vettel fans and the neutral fans also feel the same. So here it is: 

 

I do believe what Alonso said recently was absolutely spot on. 

 

Quote :“When [Pirelli] changed the tyres, we said bye-bye,”

 

I feel what Fernando said was absolutely right. It was a very open championship up until Silverstone, where all hell broke lose and the tyres were changed. I know, there will be a lot of people who will respond to this like Pirelli have and say that Vettel and RedBull were leading before they changed the tyre as well, but they were working a lot harder for it and as we saw in Silverstone that when you push it too far, you tend to trip over. It's no secret that RedBull had mastered the 2012 tyre and I just feel that Ferrari and Lotus have been very hard done by. I think, Mercedes got away with a joke of a penalty for their infamous testing, but though I'm a SV fan and although not a fan of any team, I tend to lean towards RBR, but this is feeling more and more like a manipulated championship. I know it's not their fault, but it feels hollow. I'd rather see Ferrari and Alonso give them a good run and win or see RBR totally dominate. But, changes midway through the season after the cars are already designed and run for half a season are a joke. I know there's a safety element to all this, but this should have been sorted before the season even got underway. 

 

I'm not one of those fans who could casually say 'I'll stop watching.' I know I would still watch because of my love for the sport, but it feels kind of hollow. We all sort of know the result of the championship, it just feels manipulated. And no, I'm not bored because I thoroughly loved 2011. 

 

Opinions? 



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#2 Winter98

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 13:47

The tires were a marketing disaster for both Pirelli and F1, so the change had to be made.

 

DM is considered to be a marketing genius, so I don't think it is much of a stretch to think he was the first to spot what was inevitably going to happen, and gave RBR a head start developing for the new tires.



#3 Wanderer

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 13:55

Opinions? 

 

I think at this stage the officials of F1 including Pirelli would love to see anyone winning but RB / Vettel tbh. Especially Pirelli. What WCC would be a better marketing factor for a tyre company? Ferrari, Mercedes or Can Company? 

 

The situation isn't much different to previous years where Red Bull out-developed the rest during the year so who knows how much is really down to the tyres? They're surely not the decisive factor. 



#4 Schuttelberg

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 13:56

The tires were a marketing disaster for both Pirelli and F1, so the change had to be made.

 

DM is considered to be a marketing genius, so I don't think it is much of a stretch to think he was the first to spot what was inevitably going to happen, and gave RBR a head start developing for the new tires.

 

I understand your point, but should the safety parameters not have been known before the commencement of the season? How's it fair to the likes of Ferrari and Lotus who may be based on testing data (pre-season) designed the car around the Pirelli tyres that were supposed to be run in the championship. Look at the consequences of the chages they've had to suffer :- 

 

a) A genuine chance to compete for the titles has been eliminated.

b) They must have incurred costs in building the car around the tyres? 

c) The costs incurred on changing the car once the tyres were changed.

d) Inevitable position in the WCC which involves money. 



#5 Schuttelberg

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 14:01

I think at this stage the officials of F1 including Pirelli would love to see anyone winning but RB / Vettel tbh. Especially Pirelli. What WCC would be a better marketing factor for a tyre company? Ferrari, Mercedes or Can Company? 

 

The situation isn't much different to previous years where Red Bull out-developed the rest during the year so who knows how much is really down to the tyres? They're surely not the decisive factor. 

 

I'm sorry, but this logic about it being a can company is codswallop. Today, Ferrari and Mercedes have a lot of history and prestige but I'm someone from the 21st century and I'm aware of the things RedBull has achieved. It's not Ferrari or Mercedes that sent a man to the edge of space. I have as much respect for Red Bull as a company and they've achieved quite a lot as a racing team already. 

 

Red Bull did a better job and are doing a better job than anyone. But, in 2010/11/12 the tyres or rules weren't changed mid way. 

 

How decisive are tyres as a factor? We had 7 different winners last year when no one had a clue how to operate them. Drivers were calling it a tyre championship and what not. I'm sorry, but if there's been one thing that's been a factor the past two years in the championship, it's the tyres. 



#6 ensign14

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 14:01

The worry is that the tyres were making it a lottery as to who won.  That's not a good thing for sporting integrity...



#7 Wanderer

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 14:17

It's not Ferrari or Mercedes that sent a man to the edge of space. 

 

No, they send people from point A to point B in great cars. 

 

Cars that need tyres. 



#8 Tommay

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 14:20

I think the bigger problem with the tyres was that they the whole race was planned after Friday practice (assuming no disaster in qually). The drivers were driving to delta decided on Friday evening and just making sure they stuck to them. Occasionally two strategies would cross each other pass, the driver in front would make a pathetic attempt to defend as they fear ruining their tyres.

#9 Wanderer

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 14:25

How decisive are tyres as a factor? We had 7 different winners last year when no one had a clue how to operate them. Drivers were calling it a tyre championship and what not. I'm sorry, but if there's been one thing that's been a factor the past two years in the championship, it's the tyres. 

 

What do you think is the reason they changed the tyres?



#10 rasul

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 14:52

It has little to do with tyres. RB, as always, simply outperformed everyone in the in-season development.  They pretty much already got on top of the tyres by the time the tyres were changed. I seem to remember a very dominant win by Vettel in Canada.



#11 Winter98

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 15:16

I understand your point, but should the safety parameters not have been known before the commencement of the season? How's it fair to the likes of Ferrari and Lotus who may be based on testing data (pre-season) designed the car around the Pirelli tyres that were supposed to be run in the championship. Look at the consequences of the chages they've had to suffer :- 

 

a) A genuine chance to compete for the titles has been eliminated.

b) They must have incurred costs in building the car around the tyres? 

c) The costs incurred on changing the car once the tyres were changed.

d) Inevitable position in the WCC which involves money. 

Yes, it was a huge cockup in my opinion..

 

But I don't think it was done expressly to help RBR, or that it lessens RBR's achievements.



#12 Tron

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 15:20

Well before the tyre change, Ferrari and Lotus had the edge, then came Monaco amidst Merc's secret test, and after the tyre change, Ferrari and Lotus, cars specifically designed on the original 2013 tyres, slipped back in performance while the early strugglers, RedBull and Mercedes leap even further ahead.

 

So certainly the tyre change played a part in deciding the championship.



#13 nordschleife

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 15:59

Quote :“When [Pirelli] changed the tyres, we said bye-bye,”

I feel what Fernando said was absolutely right. It was a very open championship up until Silverstone, where all hell broke lose and the tyres were changed.

I just feel that Ferrari and Lotus have been very hard done by.

I think, Mercedes got away with a joke of a penalty for their infamous testing, but ... this is feeling more and more like a manipulated championship. I know it's not their fault, but it feels hollow. I'd rather see Ferrari and Alonso give them a good run and win or see RBR totally dominate.

But, changes midway through the season after the cars are already designed and run for half a season are a joke. I know there's a safety element to all this, but this should have been sorted before the season even got underway. 

 

 

Yes, the tyres should have been sorted before the season began. Does that failure make F1 look less professional than it likes to present itself? Certainly. But far worse, unconscionable in fact, would have been to continue with the potential (inevitability?) of lethal tyre failure. So making a necessary change midway through the season is as valid as banning high wings midseason. Does that invalidate the title? No, teams accept that they must adapt as best they can on the fly. Any change will affect everyone's relative competitiveness to some degree but that's not manipulation, it's luck. And luck is drawn to those best-prepared. That hollow feeling? F1 fans have to swallow that a lot, you'll get used to it. And with everyone focussing on 2014 now, Seb should be reaming your spirit out from here to chequers in Brazil. Chin up, we have Alonso vs Kimi to enjoy next year regardless of how good the Ferrari is.



#14 Gorma

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 16:05

Red Bull just did a better job than the other teams. Just look at Singapore. No other team would have stood a chance no matter what tyres they were running. Same goes for Monza and Spa. 



#15 Gorma

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 07:24

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/110263

 

 

Ferrari's Nikolas Tombazis says F1 slump not down to tyre change

 

"It would be somewhat superficial to blame the tyres as the only reason for our decrease in performance. We also took some development steps that were not as strong and didn't work," said Tombazis.



#16 Wanderer

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 18:59

I hope you haven't already abandoned your own thread Schuttelberg.