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Dundrod Tourist Trophy 1951 E.D. Hall Ferrari 340 America


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#1 JohnSinclair

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 11:48

Hello,

 

My name is John and I am a small collector of car magazines, books and historical photographs (did some motorsport photography myself as well).

 

While searching for info about the original colour of a Ferrari 340 America, I came across this wonderful forum. Naturally I jumped at the chance and immediately looked for the search button to see if some one already posted the infomation I am looking for or point me in the right direction.

One evening searching with different keys hasn't given any result, so I decided to become a member and start a topic of my own. 

 

For over 30 years the subject car of this topic has been with the same owner who is now in the process of having the car retored while trying use as much of the Original components and bodywork of the car as possible. So far they are doing a very good job. However, trying to be sure about the original colour the car had back in 1951 is rather difficult. This issue has been cicling in the Ferrari world for maybe 10 years, but no one has the definitive answer.

 

So now the owner contacted me again if I knew of others ways to try and find the answer and all I can think of is to try and find new sources away form the Ferrari followers and historians. Maybe collectors of old Aston Martin or Jaguar photographs have material that show the car in question in the background.

 

So the subject is the Ferrari 340 America of Eddie Hall. This car was delivered to him at Le Mans 1951 where he raced the car with race number 18. We do have some photographs of the car at Le Mans, but all are in black & white and none of the pictures shows the car in one shot with a red sister car. So we cannot possibly conclude wheter the car is red or blue.

Later that year on the 15th of september 1951 Eddie Hall entered the car in the Tourist Trophy at Dundrod, race number 5. There is a nice movie on the internet showing the history of the TT and the 1951 piece shows a Ferrari Barchetta in a blue/green shade. However, that is the sister car of Bobby Baird a 166 MM (he also had a similar red 212 Export, but raced the 166 MM that year at the TT).

 

The entry lists of both Le Mans and the TT don't mention a colour for the Hall Ferrari, so we seem to be at a point where it seems impossible to be sure about the colour.

 

Is there anyone who can help out and has footage of the TT 1951 or photographs or a (local) race report that shows or mentions the Ferrari 340 America of Eddie Hall, race number 5?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

John



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#2 Vitesse2

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 13:58

Can't help with the colour of Hall's car, I'm afraid, but the Baird car would almost certainly have been a pale to mid-blue rather than blue/green, since it was owned by Frenchman Jean Lucas. I've seen several examples of early colour pictures and film where blue has mutated to green over time - this sounds like another.



#3 JohnSinclair

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 19:45

1.jpg

 

I have been away for a week, but thanks for your reply. The Baird car on the footage of Dundrod is old of course and over time this is probably what happens to colours.

Anyway, we do have a picture of the car when the new owner Jack Rutherford had the car. However, did he paint the car this colour or was it this colour when he bought it from Hall?

 

Anyone who has a race report from back in the day or from a local newspaper?

 

John


Edited by JohnSinclair, 12 October 2013 - 19:48.


#4 JoBo

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 19:57

1.jpg

 

I have been away for a week, but thanks for your reply. The Baird car on the footage of Dundrod is old of course and over time this is probably what happens to colours.

Anyway, we do have a picture of the car when the new owner Jack Rutherford had the car. However, did he paint the car this colour or was it this colour when he bought it from Hall?

 

Anyone who has a race report from back in the day or from a local newspaper?

 

John

Why not contacting Marcel Massini in Switzerland - THE Ferrari historian. I am pretty sure he has all answers to your questions.

 

JoBo



#5 Michael Müller

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 08:50

This issue has been cicling in the Ferrari world for maybe 10 years, but no one has the definitive answer.



#6 Simon Thomas

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Posted 01 December 2013 - 21:30

Eddie Hall crashed on the opening lap of the 1951 TT race at Dundrod and spent many weeks in The Royal Victoria Hospital in Belfast recovering. I do not know how badly the car was damaged but suspect it must have been returned to the works for repair prior to shipment to America. I cannot imagine the car was blue when Hall raced it, probably red, but maybe green?

SImon Thomas



#7 robjohn

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Posted 15 December 2013 - 02:33

John: Where on the 'net is the film with the 1951 TT footage? Is the race number clear on the blue/green Barchetta? Is it shown during practice or the race?
I'm interested in what the film may show of the car Baird drove on race-day, the #27 entered by Jean Lucas and Luigi Chinetti. I'm building/collecting models of some of the Ulster TT cars and looked into this car a year or two ago. The only race photo I found was b/w and the body pale enough for a French blue, but other information led me to believe it was red.
Lucas and Chinetti were partners for several years and their cars were red in all the colour photos I've seen.
A modern painting has #27 in red, though I don't know what knowledge or research supported that.
Baird drove his own car, carrying #4, in practice before the transmission broke.
As Simon said, Hall's #5 is far more likely to have been red or green than blue. Have the restoration detectives found no trace of early paintwork?
Hall's initials, by the way, were ER – Edward Ramsden...
Robin B



#8 Simon Thomas

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Posted 15 March 2014 - 10:27

Under the race regulations a car had to be painted in the national racing colours of the entrant. The car was green, probably the same green as Hall's 1934-36 Ards TT Bentley now in The Collier Museum.

It must have looked strange. I continue to look for a colour photo.

Simon Thomas



#9 Michael Müller

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 03:20

Although the FIA regulations still handled the national colors the application of this rule was the decision of the organizers. Or in other words the regulations of the 1951 TT must have expressly requested the national colors, otherwise the color was free. There had been very few - if any - British/Irish events handling this rule, so do I understand it correctly that the TT regulations did so?



#10 Vitesse2

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 07:33

Possibly a legacy of its pre-war status as a Grande Épreuve? It was, after all, one of the few events organised directly by the RAC.



#11 Simon Thomas

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 08:32

Per a local newspaper on Tuesday 11/9/51, "First to be unloaded (at Belfast docks) was Hall's green painted Ferrari". I believe Billy Skelly had to repaint his Jowett from red to green after  official scrutiny. The race programme does not include any regulations so these will have been with the entry form. For the RAC Ards TT race in 1936 the BMW 328s were painted green entered by Aldington.

Simon Thomas