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Brawn to leave Mercedes at the end of the 2013 season


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#301 Gorma

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 18:58

 Brawn never designed an F1 car himself. He made it easier to produce winners though: Benetton, Ferrari, Honda, and most possibly Merc too.

 

 

 

Designer(s): Ross Brawn , Rory Byrne

 

http://en.wikipedia....i/Benetton_B192

http://en.wikipedia....i/Benetton_B193

http://en.wikipedia....i/Benetton_B194

http://en.wikipedia....i/Benetton_B195

http://en.wikipedia....i/Benetton_B196



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#302 EvanRainer

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 19:00

I only see two options (if he stays in F1). McLaren or Williams.

 

How would he go to McLaren? Who's gonna fire Whitmarsh? McLaren has a structure they are stuck with that Brawn doesn't fit in.



#303 dizlexik

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 19:02

Heh? Brawn arrived at Honda in December 2007. After putting the car on track at the first tests, Brawn ditched the 2008 Honda because it sucked big-time as its predecessors. They started work on the late BGP01 February 2008. The team(BrawnGP) by the end of the 2009 season was dowsized heavily, it was a skeleton, basically, and no one truly believed they were staying. Zander left, and exposed Bigois' weakness as a designer for the coming seasons(he has done no good with Ferrari's tunnel project either, has he??). You might want to read back on 2008 on the effect and impact Brawn had on Honda's tech department from the beginning. He reorganized methodology and teethed the tech personnel without major changes in staff, and everything clicked in place. Before you start with the DD story, save your breath, google is your friend, the info is there. Brawn never designed an F1 car himself. He made it easier to produce winners though: Benetton, Ferrari, Honda, and most possibly Merc too.

 

edit: ahh, sorry, forget the google. I just saw your nick.

It doesn't mater when, 2007 or just 2008.

 

I'm not sure who left Brawn GP in 2009. Unless it was total exodus, this is the same team that Ross joined in December 2007. Taking into consideration the dramatic changes in 2008-9, since 2010 the team has more or less stable budget and the team still isn't regular race winner. I don't want to say that Ross is bad as his job. Barckley team is certainly doing better than before his arrival. Fair enough, but he isn't exactly the magic maker. We have seen different teams beating his team after 2009. Mercedes probably realized that they want to try something different now, because Ross didn't exactly delivered after nearly 4 full seasons. Mercedes want titles.


Edited by dizlexik, 29 October 2013 - 19:05.


#304 Raven8

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 19:03

Yes, one of Ross' long-time strengths was always putting his foot up the right asses at the right time. Ferrari could barely find their shoes when he arrived there, and he turned them into a world class outfit. Why MB chose not to give him the same operational freedom is quite beyond me.

Hamilton about Brawn:

"I get on really well with Ross and I've had some really good conversations with him.

"Before I made my decision we sat down together and he took me through the team's plans and where the team was going.

He's a very easy going guy, very approachable, and is very much responsible for where the team is today and the atmosphere he has helped create.

"On the technical side he understands everything about the car, he is in all the briefings and meetings, and he always has input.

"The one thing I particularly noticed about Martin, as an engineer, he had understanding of all the technical aspects and designs and stuff like that.

"Ross has that as well but also more on the strategy and how to build a team. That's where I see his strengths."

He's a great boss and I'm enjoying working with him. I don't know what his plans are for the future, but of course I'd like him to stay."

11. Oct 2013


Edited by Raven8, 29 October 2013 - 19:04.


#305 Szoelloe

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 19:08

Hmm, I don't think that would withstand any scutiny. He was the tech director not a designer. The only car Brawn designed - yes, I was wrong btw, according to this :) - was at Arrows:

 

http://www.autoevolu...owner-4878.html

 

Personally, I always thought he designed a sports car, and not an F1 car.



#306 Szoelloe

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 19:16

How would he go to McLaren? Who's gonna fire Whitmarsh? McLaren has a structure they are stuck with that Brawn doesn't fit in.

 

It's rumoured that Honda wants him. There is some reason in that. And Mc's structure just went south. Whitmarsh does not have to leave, or even step down. I'd say RD would be a bigger problem, but who knows? Both Mc and Ferrari heve the elements - nearly - to make a breakthrough, and both are ineffective. Brawn is going to be heavily sought after if he becomes a free agent. Ferrari needs him the most. I still hope he stays put though. As I understand, so does LH.



#307 garoidb

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 19:18

Brawn leaving would immediately trigger Hamilton's out-clause.

 

Is this true  ....  or just wishful thinking? 



#308 Gorma

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 19:24

Hmm, I don't think that would withstand any scutiny. He was the tech director not a designer. The only car Brawn designed - yes, I was wrong btw, according to this :) - was at Arrows:

 

http://www.autoevolu...owner-4878.html

 

Personally, I always thought he designed a sports car, and not an F1 car.

He worked as an aerodynamicist at Williams, designed the XJR-14 for Jaguar http://en.wikipedia....i/Jaguar_XJR-14 and was the chief designer at Arrows for two cars. Yet at Benetton he retreated to only managing although credited as a designer?

 

Multiple sources state Ross Brawn as a (co-)designer for Benetton and Ferrari.

 

Such as:

http://atlasf1.autos...review/faq.html



#309 Szoelloe

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 19:30

He worked as an aerodynamicist at Williams, designed the XJR-14 for Jaguar http://en.wikipedia....i/Jaguar_XJR-14 and was the chief designer at Arrows for two cars. Yet at Benetton he retreated to only managing although credited as a designer?

 

Multiple sources state Ross Brawn as a (co-)designer for Benetton and Ferrari.

 

Such as:

http://atlasf1.autos...review/faq.html

just read that too. I humbly declare my defeat. It underlines his overview on design processes though. 



#310 Szoelloe

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 19:31

Is this true  ....  or just wishful thinking? 

 

I'd say it is the latter. 



#311 Option1

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 19:31

Ooh, intriguing. Can the BBC really have it so wrong? They're generally red hot at predicting Merc news.

In a purely speculative realm, maybe the BBC have it perfectly right and it's the knock-on effect of Brawn leaving that is the news in The Times.  Maybe.

 

Neil



#312 as65p

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 19:36

Is this true  ....  or just wishful thinking? 

 

Forget it, you'll never get inside the circle of people who know Hamiltons contract (well basically all his life) inside out. Just be grateful when they share pieces of their knowledge! :smoking:



#313 SerratedEdge

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 20:18

More words from Ross to peer between the lines at:

 

Sky Sports News: Ross Brawn says he'll only hand over the reins at Mercedes when the timing is right

Make this happen McLaren!

 

article-0-0000101B00000CB2-367_468x286.j



#314 JimiKart

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 22:43

Make this happen McLaren!

 

article-0-0000101B00000CB2-367_468x286.j

 

Please do, and put fred in the other car, enough spaghetti already



#315 Raven8

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 23:33

IMo Mercedes will be the biggest fools of all,  if Mclaren or Farrari  pics Brawn



#316 mclarensmps

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 03:31

 

This is precisely why Wikipedia should not be used as THE MAIN source of research!

 

Edited: the caps


Edited by mclarensmps, 30 October 2013 - 03:31.


#317 jstrains

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 04:00

On one RTL interview Lauda said, that they not want Brawn to leave, but it is up to him. They will sit down and decide after the last race :wave:



#318 Velocifer

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 06:12

With all his success and failures, there is no doubt he has by now a huge knowledge how to do it and the patience to go with it.

After working hard at building up Mercedes to now finally being on the verge of success, it must be heart-wrenching for somebody to snatch the glory from him, I will understand he's well and properly pissed off at the moment and not willing to accept a back seat. It would almost be an insult, especially as it was his very own team that won the championship not too long ago.

For sure it will seem tempting for him to go fishing, but somehow don't see him wanting to retire at only 60 when there is realistically at least 10 years left judging by Frank Williams and he seems to have a lot of stamina.

Maybe the ideal compromise between retirement and being a principal without anybody interfering again is to buy up a team or at least a big part of a team himself leaving him free to choose his role more. Williams? Caterham?



#319 john_smith

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 06:54

my guess is Brawn will take another sabbatical and then come back to a role within the Mclaren/Honda partnership in 2015.

 

everyone's focus at the moment is on what Brawn wants, but looking at it from the other perspective, Honda already know Brawn very well and would have expressed its preference about who it wants to work with when it returns to F1.

 

maybe this is why mclaren haven't confirmed their drivers - Perez wants a multi-year extension, whereas mclaren want to extend for 1 year only and then let Brawn decide on drivers.



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#320 SophieB

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 07:07

In a purely speculative realm, maybe the BBC have it perfectly right and it's the knock-on effect of Brawn leaving that is the news in The Times.  Maybe.
 
Neil

They are going with how Lauda is still fighting to keep Brawn, even now:

“The speculation is total rubbish,” Lauda said. “The situation is absolutely clear: I spoke to Ross a while ago and we agreed that he will come back to me ­after the final race of the season in ­Brazil to tell me whether he wants to stay or go.
“I am trying everything I can to ­encourage and motivate him to stay. I am the one who asked him to stay. I want him to do it but it is not my decision; it is his decision. If he stays, he will be team principal — nothing else — or he will retire.”

Source: Subscription or £ required http://www.thetimes....icle3907892.ece

#321 dau

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 07:43

Ehmm, Yes. Dolfie was indeed Austrian. Quite off though so don't bother,

He was born in Austria(-Hungary), but renounced his citizenship in the mid-20s to then become a German citizen. But you're right, this has nothing to do with the unquestionable Austrian citizenship of Wolff or Lauda. It was just some stupid namedropping i should have ignored altogether. Back to topic then, sorry.

 

----

 

Wait, so that's the grand news from the times? Lauda saying it's Brawn's call and that there hasn't been a decision yet, which is pretty much the party line of the last few weeks? I don't know what i expected, but i have to say i'm a bit disappointed after that Twitter announcement.


Edited by dau, 30 October 2013 - 07:43.


#322 SophieB

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 08:00

Wait, so that's the grand news from the times? Lauda saying it's Brawn's call and that there hasn't been a decision yet, which is pretty much the party line of the last few weeks? I don't know what i expected, but i have to say i'm a bit disappointed after that Twitter announcement.

 

I KNOW, right??? I was waiting for the most deliciously insane twists hot off the griddle this morning - Brawn to succeed Domenicali! Brawn to take over at Macca! Hamilton to renounce new hat!

 

Instead, we get this bromide. For shame, Kevin Eason - for shame.



#323 Raven8

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 08:15

I KNOW, right??? I was waiting for the most deliciously insane twists hot off the griddle this morning - Brawn to succeed Domenicali! Brawn to take over at Macca! Hamilton to renounce new hat!

 

Instead, we get this bromide. For shame, Kevin Eason - for shame.

What did you expect, he wants to sell his story, I won't pay for anything Eason writes

Buy Bild/SuN etc it's cheaper and they know as much or even not... :wave:



#324 SophieB

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 08:23

I'm a Times subscriber anyway so it's free for me in that sense. And I generally rather like Kevin Eason's stuff. Still, if a journo is going to take an approach along the lines of  'BBC act like they be knowing what's up but they DON'T', then I'm going to blow raspberries when they over-promise and then under-deliver.

 

Edited to add: speaking of journos, Richard Williams' thoughts on it all:

@rwilliams19472m

Is there anyone -- apart from Niki Lauda, apparently -- who doesn't want Ross Brawn to return to Williams and turn it around?

 

 

Me, Richard!



#325 Raven8

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 10:04

I'm a Times subscriber anyway so it's free for me in that sense. And I generally rather like Kevin Eason's stuff. Still, if a journo is going to take an approach along the lines of  'BBC act like they be knowing what's up but they DON'T', then I'm going to blow raspberries when they over-promise and then under-deliver.

 

Edited to add: speaking of journos, Richard Williams' thoughts on it all:

 

Me, Richard!

What about Brawn himself , if he wanted to be there he would. Brawn made it clear he wants to stay at Mercedes, but in a role he is the head of the F1 team

He brought the team so far now has the people around he wants, where at Williams he had to start from 0 again and wait several year until it works. Brawn is not that young anymore



#326 slmk

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 11:25

Is this true  ....  or just wishful thinking? 

 

It's not confirmed (obviously), but it's been rumoured. It wouldn't surprise me considering how much LH has wanted to work with Brawn - presumably, he would want Brawn to remain whilst LH is at Mercedes.

 

Anyway a move in 2014 is off the cards, but a 2015 move, to say Renault (Lotus), RBR, or McLaren might not be so farfetched.


Edited by slmk, 30 October 2013 - 11:25.


#327 Yoshi

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 12:52

He should go back to Ferrari. :)

Edited by Yoshi, 30 October 2013 - 12:52.


#328 PhilG

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 12:58

Well any team that has input from Lauda will at some point be doomed to fail ... he spent Jaguar Racing into oblivion and delivered nothing , and is the total opposite of Brawn IMHO... whilst Brawn isnt the super designer or anything , he facilitates the needs and demands of the team and design process, to get the very best out of what he has,,, Brawn's WDC with Button is testament to that , Lauda on the other hand seems to have the ability to not only bring nothing to the table , but also to royally piss off those who are already there.



#329 pizzalover

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 13:01

It would be a massive mistake if McLaren had anything to do with Brawn. It would make them look unprincipled. Winning should not be at all costs. Hiring Brawn would be a signal that McLaren now believes anything is fair game.

 

I would be amazed and dismayed if this happened. 



#330 ReeVe

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 13:02

It would be a massive mistake if McLaren had anything to do with Brawn. It would make them look unprincipled. Winning should not be at all costs. Hiring Brawn would be a signal that McLaren now believes anything is fair game.

 

I would be amazed and dismayed if this happened. 

 

uumm ... what?



#331 senna da silva

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 13:39

I'm a Times subscriber anyway so it's free for me in that sense. And I generally rather like Kevin Eason's stuff. Still, if a journo is going to take an approach along the lines of  'BBC act like they be knowing what's up but they DON'T', then I'm going to blow raspberries when they over-promise and then under-deliver.

 

Edited to add: speaking of journos, Richard Williams' thoughts on it all:

 

Me, Richard!

 

And me!

I want the Brawn Hamilton relationship to bear fruit, a litter of championships. 



#332 chrisj

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 13:50

Would love to see him with a really radical project, like Ferrari LMP1 LeMans car, or something.



#333 Option1

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 13:54

They are going with how Lauda is still fighting to keep Brawn, even now:

Source: Subscription or £ required http://www.thetimes....icle3907892.ece

Thanks Sophie!

 

As mentioned above, not as stupendous a piece by the Times as the tweet implied.

 

FWIW, I tend to think the BBC article got it exactly right and the rest is just shifting deckchairs on the Titanic.  For mine, I'd love to see Brawn back at Ferrari.  I'd also caution the Ross to Honda camp - the article makes it clear he doesn't want to get tied up with Honda again.  He won't be the first in either the 4 wheel or 2 wheel realms to struggle with the way upper level Japanese management does things.

 

Neil



#334 Jon83

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 13:54

It would be a massive mistake if McLaren had anything to do with Brawn. It would make them look unprincipled. Winning should not be at all costs. Hiring Brawn would be a signal that McLaren now believes anything is fair game.

 

I would be amazed and dismayed if this happened. 

 

Why wouldn't it be 'fair game' exactly?



#335 PayasYouRace

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 14:35

 Brawn never designed an F1 car himself.

 

The Arrows A10 (1987-88) and A11 (1989-90) are credited to him.



#336 Szoelloe

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 15:40

The Arrows A10 (1987-88) and A11 (1989-90) are credited to him.

Thx, we discussed it, I was wrong.



#337 Raven8

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 18:31

Seems to be a fight at Mercedes  Lauda & Brawn  versus Wolff & Lowe



#338 SerratedEdge

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 00:16

It would be a massive mistake if McLaren had anything to do with Brawn. It would make them look unprincipled. Winning should not be at all costs. Hiring Brawn would be a signal that McLaren now believes anything is fair game.

 

I would be amazed and dismayed if this happened. 

Under its current 'ideals' and 'principles' McLaren suck and produced a joke of a car for 2013 :blush:  

 

If they want to be at the front again they need to change IMO. 



#339 PayasYouRace

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 08:28

Thx, we discussed it, I was wrong.

 

I've now seen the rest of the discussion.



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#340 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 12:10

U-turn from Lewis Hamilton on Ross Brawn: Now talking of others in the team who can lead rather than 'Ross must stay'..



#341 SophieB

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 12:14

Ted's behind the curve. He backtracked on the 'Ross must stay' stuff more or less at the time he said it too. I presumed someone in the team had pointed out the obvious to him, something along the lines of 'and if Ross does in fact leave, Lewis?'



#342 ReeVe

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Posted 31 October 2013 - 12:36

Hamilton has a 20m a year contract and there's no comparable seats immediately open, IMO those that though oh Lewis' has a Ross must stay opt-out clause were a bit separated from reality



#343 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 15:13

Brawns departure to be announced this week sportbild.bild.de/SPORT/formel-1… via @SPORTBILD



#344 Louis Mr. F1

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 15:39

if he's indeed leaving, i'm hoping he'll be joining either Williams or McLaren.



#345 ch103

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 16:37

Brawn has stated multiple times that 2014 - Mercedes is the team to be at.  Why now would he depart just before the 2014 campaign?



#346 Jon83

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 16:46

Brawn has stated multiple times that 2014 - Mercedes is the team to be at.  Why now would he depart just before the 2014 campaign?

 

With respect, nobody, RB included, can say that for certain.

 

It may well be the team to be at, but only for him if the role is right (i.e he remains as TP)



#347 F1ultimate

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 17:15

Brawn has stated multiple times that 2014 - Mercedes is the team to be at.  Why now would he depart just before the 2014 campaign?

 

That's what puzzles me. Why would you want to develop a monster for a car over 2-3 years, but walk away before seeing the fruition of your labour? Nevertheless I can't imagine him wanting to fight the Mercedes by joining another team. Given how much he knows about the car there are likely clauses in his contract that prevents him from immediately joining another team.



#348 garagetinkerer

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 18:09

If Brawn leaves... it is perhaps for best, at least as far he is concerned. Wolff was caught on tape saying not so flattering things and he's still there and is higher up the food chain, as far as Brawn is concerned. It is not an ideal situation. While Mercedes may succeed next year, but situations like these are perhaps best observed from afar (without being in the thick of it), as those who'll credit Brawn, will do so whether he's there next year or not .


Edited by garagetinkerer, 25 November 2013 - 18:10.


#349 Fastcake

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 20:18

Ross Brawn leaving has certainly been hanging over the entire season. I suspect he definitely is going, or these constant rumours would have dissipated by now.

 

What will be interesting is where - if anywhere at all - he may be going next.



#350 F1ultimate

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Posted 25 November 2013 - 20:51

Ross Brawn leaving has certainly been hanging over the entire season. I suspect he definitely is going, or these constant rumours would have dissipated by now.

 

 

It's a sad reality. This season there's not been smoke without fires. It's only a matter of time before we hear the official word on the matter.