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Japanese GP 2013: FP1, FP2, FP3 and Qualifying SUZUKA!


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#101 Holdenboy

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 12:21

Pole time last year was 1.30.8 so a long way to go. Wonder why they are so slow this year.

 

No unlimited DRS

Fuel levels

Engine modes turned down

No one has run in angst yet

Track not fully rubbered in

 

Take your pick      :D



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#102 vista

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 12:34

No unlimited DRS

Fuel levels

Engine modes turned down

No one has run in angst yet

Track not fully rubbered in

 

Take your pick      :D

 

Still, they have been faster at many circuits this year and the tyres are supposed to be softer than last year. 


Edited by vista, 11 October 2013 - 12:39.


#103 Baddoer

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 12:37

I wonder who is gonna get pole. No, wait, I'm actually not.



#104 Kelateboy

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 12:39

No DRS between hairpin and Spoon, and out of Spoon till the casino triangle. That has to account for quite some time loss.
 

 

Correct.

 

Last year, some teams (might be all) were running DRS through 130R.



#105 Jackmancer

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 12:49

Bianchi seemed to get his right elbow stuck on the upper side of the cockpit. No? I've never seen it before in F1, and he could'n't correct because of it.



#106 HoldenRT

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 12:51

Oh well...yet another Vettel borefest coming up this weekend. :(

 

The truth is, I get more enjoyment out of watching Classic F1 races on Sky than I do watching them live nowadays. The Red Bull/Vettel borefests have just killed off my interest in F1. I am no longer even remotely excited about the races.

 

The press don't care as nearly all of them are fully paid-up members of the Red Bull/Vettel Fan Club. :|

 

I get more enjoyment out of watching races from 2005 or 2006 but it's got nothing to do with Redbull.



#107 HoldenRT

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 12:53

Even guys like Brundle are giving up trying to make the race interesting at the moment.

 

He didn't seem to have to, last half of the last race seemed fine?



#108 JRUK

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 12:58

Meh... whilst that's true, how many people do you see in the street going 'wow that fight between 4 and 5th in that marathon was awesome...'
 
It's like cheering on the 3rd and 4th play off in the World Cup.


Actual marathon fans won't boo Haile Gebrselassie for being too good. They will simply respect that they are watching someone who is amongst the best at their sport.

Football fans will often go "wow, that fight between 17th and 18th in the Premier League was awesome".

The F1 mentality would be like saying that every Bundesliga game is boring because in Bayern Munich, there is a team that is far more successful than anyone else. Or an Aston Villa fan refusing to watch football any more because Manchester United won the league too many times.

Edited by JRUK, 11 October 2013 - 13:05.


#109 EvanRainer

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 13:14

Good example with the football. What I don't understand with people that exclaim how bored they are is, I understand finding the race for first place being boring or even the championship, but that doesn't make the whole race boring.

 

It's like admitting that you only watch F1 to see who wins. No interest in the driving, the cars etc. Which fair enough, it is absolutely your right to feel that way, but I don't understand how you can profess to be an F1 fan and find nothing to watch in a race. It's an incredibly competitive time in F1, and there are always good battles going on.



#110 SophieB

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 13:31

Actual marathon fans won't boo Haile Gebrselassie for being too good. They will simply respect that they are watching someone who is amongst the best at their sport.

Football fans will often go "wow, that fight between 17th and 18th in the Premier League was awesome".

The F1 mentality would be like saying that every Bundesliga game is boring because in Bayern Munich, there is a team that is far more successful than anyone else. Or an Aston Villa fan refusing to watch football any more because Manchester United won the league too many times.

 

The football league thing is a bad comparison because there are many matches in a given week but Bayern Munich (or any other dominant team) can only be playing in one of them at a time. So if you happen to find Bayern Munich's dominance a turn-off, there is the freedom to enjoy a league match that doesn't include them, with a potential clear match winner that has no chance of being Bayern Munich . F1 doesn't offer the same, except by imagining the race for the lower points is a race on its own terms and telling yourself it's just as good except there's no podium, trophies or  any sense of achievement from the drivers.

 

As an aside, the F1 press tried to make the 'race for second place!!' thing happen before back in 2011 to drum up some ersatz excitement after it was obvious Vettel was going to romp home early. Alonso, Webber, and Button all looked at that and said words to the effect of how they didn't give a toss about second place so I guess they must be not real F1 fans or something I don't know.



#111 Jackmancer

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 13:42

When a football team is dominant, you still see action.

When an F1 team is dominant, you don't see action.



#112 chisharpe

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 14:17

looking forward to sunday. great race track and we dont look to be lacking in any sector which is nice. not sure of the speed trap times but should be a good race. rosbergs pace wasnt bad compared to everyone bar the bulls so its game on.

#113 Slackbladder

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 14:33

Well that's the difference between people who enjoy the contest and those only interested in the result. You're right that Joe Public will often only rembember the winner of a given event, but real fans of any sport will enjoy (and remember) any example of an exciting, quality contest.

 

I enjoy the contest as much as the next guy, and resent anyone portraying themselves as a 'better' F1 fan than others.

 

If Vettel had to work (in terms of on the track) for the wins, but at the moment he's not even doing that.

 

Of course I also enjoy the contest lower down the track, but it's of lesser interest than the win. Which means lesser interest in the race.



#114 Timstr11

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 14:33

Listening to the interviews even Ross (who was spoken to during FP2 by the Sky F1 team) is getting tired of the tyres, suggesting too much time is spent trying to figure them out and develop strategies to manage them.

Yes, I heard him as well. He said it's time to redress the balance.



#115 Crossmax

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 14:35

When a football team is dominant, you still see action.

When an F1 team is dominant, you don't see action.

? Of course there can be action, maybe not for 1st place, but there are 10 other teams out there that per definition are not dominant, providing action.



#116 zippythecat

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 14:51

Bianchi seemed to get his right elbow stuck on the upper side of the cockpit. No? I've never seen it before in F1, and he could'n't correct because of it.

 

Not seeing that. He merely lost it and took his hands off the wheel in anticipation of hitting the barrier, I think.



#117 Group B

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 14:51

? Of course there can be action, maybe not for 1st place, but there are 10 other teams out there that per definition are not dominant, providing action.

 

:up:

 

Quite.



#118 Group B

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 15:06

I enjoy the contest as much as the next guy, and resent anyone portraying themselves as a 'better' F1 fan than others.

 

If Vettel had to work (in terms of on the track) for the wins, but at the moment he's not even doing that.

 

Of course I also enjoy the contest lower down the track, but it's of lesser interest than the win. Which means lesser interest in the race.

 

Nobody's saying they're 'better' than you, but it's no good you saying you resent it since by your own account you evidently don't enjoy the contest as much as the next guy, as you're the one who posted analogies belittling sporting contests for anything other that 1st place. That's entirely your choice and prerogative, but there are plenty more people, as evidenced here, who thoroughly enjoy a top quality fight whether it's for 1st or 5th. That's NOT to say I wouldn't prefer more competion for first place, but most sports have periods of domination which invariably only last for a while before there's a changing of the guard. Hopefully the battle for WDC will be a classic in 2014, but in the mean time you just have to give RB and Vettel kudos while enjoying the other scraps as best as possible.



#119 bub

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 15:09

Not seeing that. He merely lost it and took his hands off the wheel in anticipation of hitting the barrier, I think.

 

He said his elbow got stuck. Apparently it's bruised and he's been putting ice on it.



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#120 Nigol

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 15:57

Not seeing that. 

Watch again. ;)



#121 vista

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 16:00

What about weather tomorrow? F1 website says rain and Button expected cooler temperatures as well.



#122 KingTiger

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 16:06

It has much to do with the new tyres since Hungary, both Mercedes drivers have their problems on them( said in a recent interview), while they IMO seemed to be a gift for RBR

 

Yeah, this WDC/WCC is meaningless to me. Pirelli decided it for Red Bull.  



#123 FastnLoud

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 16:50

Awful Race pace compared to Redbull and Lotus - This is going to be another race where both Lewis and Nico Qualify high up and then just drop off in the race where nothing but tyre problems arise and end up holding up for positions.



#124 tomisumi

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 16:52

What about weather tomorrow? F1 website says rain and Button expected cooler temperatures as well.

Yes, it might be cooler, and stronger wind also - up to 30-40 km/h in gusts. But 0 % chance of rain...



#125 vista

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 17:02

Yes, it might be cooler, and stronger wind also - up to 30-40 km/h in gusts. But 0 % chance of rain...

 

I think Mercedes and Ferrari prefer a bit cooler conditions based on experiences from earlier this year. Mercedes primary but I think Pat Fry said something a few races ago that the cooler temperatures were more to Ferraris liking at the moment.

 

Anyway, at best it could reduce the gap to the Bulls a bit - I hope.



#126 muramasa

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 17:08

Cold front (tho weak one) is passing at this very moment so it's raining sporadically in the area around Suzuka too.

201310120205-00.png

 

But Sat and Sun will be fine, with rather strong north-west wind expected to blow in the afternoon for both days.

Temp will be around 23.

http://tenki.jp/fore...point-1176.html


Edited by muramasa, 11 October 2013 - 17:11.


#127 windy1603

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 17:16

The football league thing is a bad comparison because there are many matches in a given week but Bayern Munich (or any other dominant team) can only be playing in one of them at a time. So if you happen to find Bayern Munich's dominance a turn-off, there is the freedom to enjoy a league match that doesn't include them, with a potential clear match winner that has no chance of being Bayern Munich . F1 doesn't offer the same, except by imagining the race for the lower points is a race on its own terms and telling yourself it's just as good except there's no podium, trophies or  any sense of achievement from the drivers.

 

As an aside, the F1 press tried to make the 'race for second place!!' thing happen before back in 2011 to drum up some ersatz excitement after it was obvious Vettel was going to romp home early. Alonso, Webber, and Button all looked at that and said words to the effect of how they didn't give a toss about second place so I guess they must be not real F1 fans or something I don't know.

In football you can change the team to address weak area's with the engine freeze anyone other than Renault cannot implement cutting cylinders and other grey mapping so will always fall foul to poor traction out of corners. Slow corner traction track three Renaults in top three places.

 

If anything RB's was in a win position they did the grey mapping first and had it sorted then took it to extreme levels. FIA says stop doing it but as we did not pick it up before you and all other teams can use a old map which stopped any other team catching up



#128 TomNokoe

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 18:16

V good on a green track as usual. FP1 was actually more encouraging than P2. Have a sneaky suspicion Vettel will be beaten for pole. Hamilton's 34.1 was very encouraging in FP1, his best sectors from that session put him a tenth or so faster, so it looks okay.

#129 SamH123

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 18:25

Yeah first 1-2 in FP1 since Germany leaves some hope for qualifying.  

 

Not sure I agree the long run pace looked bad, I don't think Merc were thrashing the tires as much as RB

Rosberg did a long-ish run on the meds with not much degradation



#130 race addicted

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 18:30

I always expected them to show signs of struggling with both ultimate long-run pace, and tyre-woes affecting pace - on long runs. Would love to be wrong, or to get a helping hand from lower temperatures.



#131 Myrvold

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 18:44

No one has run in angst yet

You surely mean anger? Or is it some sort of english expression I don't know about? :)



#132 TomNokoe

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 18:50

Hopefully if they do pole it they shouldn't be vulnerable off the line, relatively small run

#133 Andrew Hope

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 19:02

You surely mean anger? Or is it some sort of english expression I don't know about? :)

All those stories I've read about the 14-year old boy soldiers defending Germany in 1945 make a lot more sense if the phrase is "shots fired in angst".



#134 Afterburner

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 20:06

Included mostly for the play on words, which I enjoyed.

Indeed. In all the places I expected to find a reference to that song, this was surely one of the last. :lol: :up:

#135 MP422

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 21:38

It's all good, I'm sure the team and both drivers will give it their all as usual. love this circuit. :clap:



#136 KingTiger

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 21:52

Pace in P2 was a long way from Red Bull but better than Lotus and Ferrari. 



#137 SirT

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 23:24

Yeah, they don't seem to have good chemistry at all anymore, but it didn't start in Korea, 'cause Hamilton has had complaints before.

I get the impression Hamilton thinks Bonnington is stupid.

 

Merc should snap up Smedley to be Lewis' RE.


Edited by SirT, 11 October 2013 - 23:25.


#138 TomNokoe

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 23:31

I think the repour with Bono is fine. No better or worse than the majority of the grid bar Vettel-Rocky and the two Ferrari drivers and their REs. Hamilton has complained much in the past about interrupting him, and so one way of avoiding that is to say as little words as possible. I think the situation with the tyres has merely exacerbated things and I think at times Lewis' might just need to relax and think for himself for a short while. Saying that, I get the vibe Lewis is rather isolated in F1 at the moment. It's only been a year with Merc. Yes, there is no times for friends in this sport, and it doesn't seem to affect him too much, so....

#139 Neolew

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 23:31

close battle for pole i think.     No doubting who is going to be last...Max chilton



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#140 TomNokoe

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 23:38

Hopefully the Lotus emerge as contenders in P3. Expecting good things this weekend

#141 Kingshark

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 23:38

It was exactly 10 years ago today when Michael Schumacher became the first ever 6 time world champion, at this very circuit in Suzuka.

 

Just throwing it out there.



#142 Afterburner

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Posted 11 October 2013 - 23:54

It was exactly 10 years ago today when Michael Schumacher became the first ever 6 time world champion, at this very circuit in Suzuka.
 
Just throwing it out there.

Nice. :up:

That was the first ever race that I stayed up late to watch... and it was well worth it, I thought. If I recall correctly, history was going to be made either way--if MS won, then he'd be the first six-time champion. If KR won, then he would've been the youngest-ever champion. Cool stuff.

Though, a part of me still wishes Kimi could've come third in Indy so I could've seen MS make it to 6 championships in person, right across from the podium, but you can't have everything. :p Suzuka was a fitting place for the record to be broken, and Spa was an especially fitting place for the new one to be set.

#143 Kingshark

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 00:13

It would have been even better if there had been a 3-way horse championship fight at Suzuka 2003, but unfortunately Montoya kind of threw that opportunity away in Indy.


Edited by Kingshark, 12 October 2013 - 00:14.


#144 SanDiegoGo

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 01:46

Merc should snap up Smedley to be Lewis' RE.

 

Do you have any memory of the rivalry that existed between Ferrari and McLaren during the 08 title fight. Smedley is no fan of Lewis. Never going to happen.



#145 SamH123

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 02:08

Wow crazy how much faster the track is because of the different wind

Teams will have to be alert in quali in case the wind is changing direction/strength a lot

 

That was the main reason for the big discrepancy with the times yesterday compared to last year


Edited by SamH123, 12 October 2013 - 02:08.


#146 PorcupineTroy

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 02:35

The mechanics sure get their money's worth at Suzuka :p



#147 TomNokoe

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 03:04

Looks like maybe a 6 way pole fight!

#148 Obi Offiah

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 03:11

Looks like maybe a 6 way pole fight!

Lest we forget that Seb did not run.



#149 SamH123

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 03:14

I'm just looking at the ipad app for FP3, and there are speeds for all 3 sectors:

 

WEB 1'32''0xx  278 307 274

HAM 1'32''1xx 273 298 268 (-5 -9 -6 wrt web)

ROS 1'32''3xx 269 297 267 (-9 -10 -7 "")

 

Is it surprising to anyone else how Merc can get so close to Webber's time here despite dishing away so much time on straights.  I guess RB have so much downforce that they can run low downforce (top speed) and aggressive gearing (top acceleration) at the same time but then it seems impressive Merc are still in touch



#150 Kelateboy

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 03:43

In football you can change the team to address weak area's with the engine freeze anyone other than Renault cannot implement cutting cylinders and other grey mapping so will always fall foul to poor traction out of corners. Slow corner traction track three Renaults in top three places.

 

If anything RB's was in a win position they did the grey mapping first and had it sorted then took it to extreme levels. FIA says stop doing it but as we did not pick it up before you and all other teams can use a old map which stopped any other team catching up

 

Sorry, but this is so wrong...

 

From  Silverstone 2011 debacle you know for a fact that Mercedes have been doing cylinder cutting for fired overrun.