21 replies to this topic

[Lee Nicolle]

Not quite sure this is nostalgia but looking at Speed Café young Chas Mostert has done quite a deal of damage the Greenstuff FG nostalgia paint scheme Ford. 30 years from when Dick killed his Greenstuff XE.
And now a big bash to rebuild the car for Sundays race. They just need Ross Palmer to buy someone elses car so they can continue!
Though with the money these days the teams should have a spare chassis or two.
28 cars and they have killed 3 in practice!

[GMACKIE]

Chas didn't hit a rock, did he?

[Lee Nicolle]

Chas didn't hit a rock, did he?

The blue car hit a rock, the green one hit a pile of trees

[Ray Bell]

...after it clipped the wall...

 

That was what sent it into the trees.

[Redneb]

...after it clipped the wall...

 

Broke its steering

 

That was what sent it into the trees.

 

Fixt.

[Wirra]

 

The blue car hit a rock, the green one hit a pile of trees

 

[Lee Nicolle]

Not really a much happier finish than Dick in 83. Though the car did finish, 5 laps down after an early stop go for not jacking the car to put fuel in it and then on another stop the starter died and had to be replaced. It was probably about 1/2 a sec off the front running pace. Though the starter change probably cost it a potential top 10. The other car though finished 15th on the lead lap.
The cars stopping every 1/2 hour for fuel does nothing for the race however, it just mixes them up.

Edited by Lee Nicolle, 13 October 2013 - 22:02.

[GMACKIE]

Those fuel stops are crazy.....they should change the rules to 'Diesel fuel only'.

[DJH]

The TV talking heads should check their facts and stop talking nonsense. They constantly refer to the V8 supercars as Ford, Holden etc., when they are in fact scratch built sports sedan "thingys". Show me what part of them comes from their mass produced namesakes, perhaps a couple of bits of plastic trim and badging.
How much longer must we endure this sham?
And......Ford announced it'll continue supporting the category. With line closures and mass sackings not far away, how can they justify pi**ing away money that way ? Very poor PR exercise.

Edited by DJH, 14 October 2013 - 07:13.

[Ray Bell]

That is true...

 

But isn't that the whole reason for the way it's developed since the early nineties?

 

Holdens were using Ford rear axle parts. Then they found that some circuits suited the Holden front end geometry and others suited the Ford, so in the interest of 'parity' they decided all should have the same front end. And so it goes on.

 

Ford, by the way, will still be marketing cars in Australia. So promotional exercises like racing would still be considered an investment in marketing.

[DJH]

I'm all for manufacturers being involved with motorsport, but , race something production based that reflects whats happening in the real world and what people are buying and driving.
Just my opinion, I realise that I'm part of a minority who believe V8 Supercars should be laid to rest, they have no relevance to today's new car market.

Edited by DJH, 14 October 2013 - 07:16.

[Ray Bell]

I think you have a somewhat skewed view...

 

Not in thinking that a race or series should reflect what's in production, rather that any particular category should be scrapped because it doesn't.

 

Where does NASCAR reflect production, after all? The world's biggest and richest series, it is made up of cars that have very clearly have almost nothing to do with production cars.

 

But is it reason to scrap the category? Is it, do you think, promoted as representing the production models? Are the V8 Supercars?

[DJH]

"But is it reason to scrap the category? Is it, do you think, promoted as representing the production models? Are the V8 Supercars?"

Well yes, V8SC are promoted as being Falcons and Commodores. I have spoken to some spectators at the circuit, who believed they were still watching modified production cars racing.
NASCAR is clearly what it is, slab sided racers with grille and headlights represented by decals, no doors or wipers etc. built to carry one person around a banked oval at 200+ m.p.h. Clearly they aren't based on any production car and totally irrelevant to my comments. I'm not sure why NASCAR is the world's most popular form of motorsport, but, it is. I guess you have to be there.
Doesn't really concern me what happens to V8 supercars, its a hugely popular category, but not to my liking. Thank God for historic racing.
Sorry for dragging this so far off topic, I'll say farewell and let you guys return to Dick's green XE Falcon Group C production line built body shell Ford Falcon.

Edited by DJH, 14 October 2013 - 09:15.

[Lee Nicolle]

The TV talking heads should check their facts and stop talking nonsense. They constantly refer to the V8 supercars as Ford, Holden etc., when they are in fact scratch built sports sedan "thingys". Show me what part of them comes from their mass produced namesakes, perhaps a couple of bits of plastic trim and badging.
How much longer must we endure this sham?
And......Ford announced it'll continue supporting the category. With line closures and mass sackings not far away, how can they justify pi**ing away money that way ? Very poor PR exercise.

I will have you know that a 'proper' Sports Sedan retains its original shape apart from flares and spoilers. Those cars are bad charactures of what they arer supposed to be. Different wheelbases, roofs cut and sectioned etc etc. Supposedly for parity!

[Lee Nicolle]

That is true...
 
But isn't that the whole reason for the way it's developed since the early nineties?
 
Holdens were using Ford rear axle parts. Then they found that some circuits suited the Holden front end geometry and others suited the Ford, so in the interest of 'parity' they decided all should have the same front end. And so it goes on.
 
Ford, by the way, will still be marketing cars in Australia. So promotional exercises like racing would still be considered an investment in marketing.

Ray, the 9" rear end has not been a production part since the early 80s. On F100s! The last Falcon too use it was the 351 XC. And the 9" was used in Gp A Commondores too
Parity meant that Holden had to use a proper double wishbone front suspension, and they use a Ford deckheight on the engine too. Why? And both Ford and Holden use a clone of a Boss 302 Ford head. So really the Holdens are actually Fords!!

[Lee Nicolle]

"But is it reason to scrap the category? Is it, do you think, promoted as representing the production models? Are the V8 Supercars?"

Well yes, V8SC are promoted as being Falcons and Commodores. I have spoken to some spectators at the circuit, who believed they were still watching modified production cars racing.
NASCAR is clearly what it is, slab sided racers with grille and headlights represented by decals, no doors or wipers etc. built to carry one person around a banked oval at 200+ m.p.h. Clearly they aren't based on any production car and totally irrelevant to my comments. I'm not sure why NASCAR is the world's most popular form of motorsport, but, it is. I guess you have to be there.
Doesn't really concern me what happens to V8 supercars, its a hugely popular category, but not to my liking. Thank God for historic racing.

Even then Dickys Falcon was a 'special' shell.Extra welding, no brackets for handbrakes, exhaust mounts etc. No body seam sealer. Though apart from that it was a standard shell. That actually started in the mid 70s, those XC Coupes were 'cheater' as the back wheel archs were bigger.
His XD that hit the rock actually started life as a cab. So was not a special shell. Apart from hours of extra prep.
Sorry for dragging this so far off topic, I'll say farewell and let you guys return to Dick's green XE Falcon Group C production line built body shell Ford Falcon.

Edited by Lee Nicolle, 14 October 2013 - 21:47.

[Redneb]

Chas Mostert needs his butt kicking good for what he did (hitting the wall). DJR as a team has had severe funding difficulties over a couple of seasons now, but came to Bathurst with a ton of experience and probably a pretty good car. They weren't going to win it, but I reckon they were on for a respectable placing, given a bit of luck.

 

But what does Mostert do? He goes firing up the mountain early in practise "trying to find the limits" (his own words from a post-prang interview).

 

He found them all right. Surely a bit of restraint was in order? He didn't have to find the limits through a narrow, concrete-lined and very difficult piece of track on about the third lap of practise.

 

Instead he dusted the car, needlessly cost DJR a heap of money, wrecked any chances of a decent finish and turned this year's Bathurst into a horror weekend for the team.

 

Dumb.

Edited by Redneb, 14 October 2013 - 22:11.

[GD66]

I'm all for manufacturers being involved with motorsport, but , race something production based that reflects whats happening in the real world and what people are buying and driving.
 

 

 

That version of Bathurst is held at Easter. At the V8 Bathurst, the spectators know the names of all the drivers : at Easter, the drivers know the names of the spectators...

[wolseley680]

I went to the car racing when Mustangs, Camaros & even a Monaro weren't Historic, was it called Improved Production. I think the current lot are great cars & drivers but I wouldn't go and see them - I'm going to Philip Island this weekend, they hold more interest for me now.

[Hank the Deuce]

Howard Marsden once said that Australia "talks V8's but buys sixes".  Some of the specifics have changed, but if the viewing public were buying Falcon and Commodore V8's, then there would doubtless have been less justification in going to the spaceframed Car of The Future... and Australia's automotive manufacturing industry would be healthier than it is.  That said, the whole idea of the current car spec, and the one before it ("Project Blueprint") was to attempt to equalise performance, given the other restrictions in place.

 

At a guess, I'd say that the prime attributes the average Joe on the fence wants from their racing is speed, noise and action.  V8Supercars provides all that to varying degrees (although the on-track spectacle tends towards the processional at most events, and it's hard to get excited over pit strategy).

 

The 2 litre SuperTourers of the mid-90's often put on a great racing spectacle, but failed to capture the hearts and minds of the paying public.

 

Racing these days is about the spectacle, not the sport.  After all, if every competitor was required to pay the costs out of their own pocket, it would be a far more muted affair... which I guess is the story of motor racing dating back into antiquity.  And then, to convince outside parties to underwrite the costs, there's got to be something in it for them... and for the recent past, the "franchises" have drawn a handsome earn from the gate takings (and of course merchandise). 

 

But, to get closer to the OP, Mostert's practice performance was all-too-similar to the last time that particular livery appeared on The Mountain.  That they hauled the car into 11th, despite starting in pit lane and copping an immediate pitlane drive-through would suggest that DJR did a pretty good job of sewing the thing back together... that it wouldn't fire after stalling after that pit stop would suggest they might've missed a couple of things...

 

It cruelled their day, and robbed the DJR faithful of what had been a promising weekend - just like 30 years previously.

 

Given the mad dash for the last 30 laps at the pointy end, The viewing public didn't do too badly out of the weekend at all, the credibility of the category notwithstanding.

[Lee Nicolle]

The 2 litre cars were a total farce. Two Audis and 2 Bimmers were the field, A few others coughed and spluttered around about 5-20 sec off the pace.

The original 'Supercars' were about half the price to build and run. And far more excitement!!
Now Supercars are as sophisticated and expensive as they were. Though at least they all race within a couple of sec a lap.

I have just looked briefly at the NZ rules. Far cheaper cars to build and maintain. Though it seems now too many different 'specs' But the cars probably cost 20% of the Aussie cars and about 20% to run too. And quite a lot of parts come from the Holden or Ford dealers. Unlike in Oz where it is the headlights, taillights and mirrors,, Maybe!

DJR on Sunday had a starter fail, almost certainly nothing to do with the crash. The cars were not fast enough when needed but were otherwise on the pace. Look at Natsoft, the results and lap times are there.
These new cars are actually slower than last years cars. The lap record is two seconds faster. They have spent millions to go slower!

[Hank the Deuce]

There's always the chance that some relatively two-bob bit will cruel your run I guess... that's racin'!

 

DJR's cars performed credibly - car 12 garnered a solid result, around about where Tim's run this season, and Chaz and Dale were stars I thought, start nothwithstanding.

 

You're right about the kiwis too!

 

The Utopian ideal would be a formula where each marque competed on its merits - reference the days of Warwick Farm or Bathurst in days of yore, when the Toranas' agility and relative frugality on fuel put them into contention with the big iron that Ford used.  But reality seldom measures up to the dream, I guess!