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Hamilton Vs Rosberg - 2013 Part 3


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#1 P123

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 08:36

There's no **** up. He would lose the same amount through one more pitstop + making his way while battling.

 

It's not that clear cut.  You have fresher rubber so are charging more rather than nursing and running below the limit of the car.  That said, the Mercs were absolutely horrible in sector 1 so overtaking and defending was always going to be difficult.  It's not first time since the summer break that their wing levels, gear ratios, mechanical set up/ combination of all, have been a problem.



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#2 Kingshark

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 08:37

Rosberg would have beaten Hamilton without his front wing fail, Nico's clearly been the unlucky Merc driver this year.



#3 peroa

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 08:37

Mercedes Twitter said 2nd set of mediums was much better than the 1st. Maybe wrong tyre pressure?

Now that's interesting...



#4 skyform

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 08:37

Mercedes should have let Lewis overtake Nico and pit ahead of him. In this scenario Nico would only have been held up by no more than 2.5 seconds, and possibly none since Lewis would have probably been in the box several seconds before Nico coming in. The option Mercedes chose was to hold Lewis for a whole lap in favor of Nico despite the fact that he had been requesting to come in for several laps. It is clear Nico is not a team player and Mercedes like McLaren are not listening to their faster driver. 2014 will be very much like 2011 for Lewis Hamilton, is my prediction at the moment.

+1

 

Yeah how stupid was this, Nico with a broken wing infront of Lewis and not even leting him overtake, for god sake he is his teammate, why sacrifice his race because of his damaged wing, Lewis lost atleast 2-4 more sec because of this and could come out of the pits even ahead of Kimi and would probably never end up behind Hulk.

 

Merc are trowing points away with stuff like this and they will end behind Ferrari because of this crap!


Edited by skyform, 06 October 2013 - 08:40.


#5 CHIUNDA

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 08:37

The wing was on the floor, because he damaged it even more overtaking Lewis. The whole nose was loose. It was very dangerous he stayed on the racing line

Rosberg riseked aDNF for both cars if the FW came down. Dangerous & stupid  to stay on the racing line from NR

 

said much better than i would have done it myself ... totally britney like behaviour :(



#6 Raven8

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 08:38

Mercedes should have let Lewis overtake Nico and pit ahead of him. In this scenario Nico would only have been held up by no more than 2.5 seconds, and possibly none since Lewis would have probably been in the box several seconds before Nico coming in. The option Mercedes chose was to hold Lewis for a whole lap in favor of Nico despite the fact that he had been requesting to come in for several laps. It is clear Nico is not a team player and Mercedes like McLaren are not listening to their faster driver. 2014 will be very much like 2011 for Lewis Hamilton, is my prediction at the moment.

Brundle said on Sky ATM : "Lewis lost 4 sec this lap behind Rosberg, this brought him behind Hulk in the end. Hamilton was held up when he needed to pic up the pace before his pit stop"



#7 Timothy

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 08:38

I also think this should be called a draw looking at their comparative lap times.



#8 anti

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 08:39

History graph Korean GP 2013

  • Nico Rosberg
  • Lewis Hamilton
Comparison by race leader



#9 Diablobb81

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 08:39

said much better than i would have done it myself ... totally britney like behaviour :(

 

Why comment without having the info?

 

Nico didn't damage the front wing, he didn't say he ran over a bump and there was no risk of the wing breaking further since there was another anchor point.


Edited by Diablobb81, 06 October 2013 - 08:40.


#10 CHIUNDA

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 08:43

:wave:

 

:wave:  :rotfl:



#11 P123

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 08:43

Rosberg would have beaten Hamilton without his front wing fail, Nico's clearly been the unlucky Merc driver this year.

 

Possibly not.  LH would have then pitted on that lap instead of having to wait yet another (and losing more time) as transpired with the team having to service Nico, and then the SC would have come in to play a couple of laps later with Hamilton having those 2 laps to lap faster too.  Such may also have prevented Kimi leapfrogging him, and on the SC restart it would have been easier to defend against the Lotus of Kimi (slowest on the straights) than the Sauber of Hulkenberg (fastest on the straights).  So Hamilton also suffered from Nico's untimely FW failure.



#12 f1fastestlap

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 08:44

Why comment without having the info?

 

Nico didn't damage the front wing, he didn't say he ran over a bump and there was no risk of the wing breaking further since there was another anchor point.

:lol:

You can't be serious...



#13 motorhead

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 08:45

Did you even watch the race? He was out in front, holding him up for a whole lap.

 

So Lewis holding him before that overtake doesn´t count, talking about biased vision...



#14 pit5bul

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 08:45

seriously guys.. you must be trolling if you think Nico won this weekend.. not even close.. but than again.. who cares.. we lost as a team...



#15 skyform

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 08:46

Possibly not.  LH would have then pitted on that lap instead of having to wait yet another (and losing more time) as transpired with the team having to service Nico, and then the SC would have come in to play a couple of laps later with Hamilton having those 2 laps to lap faster too.  Such may also have prevented Kimi leapfrogging him, and on the SC restart it would have been easier to defend against the Lotus of Kimi (slowest on the straights) than the Sauber of Hulkenberg (fastest on the straights).  So Hamilton also suffered from Nico's untimely FW failure.

+1



#16 Kingshark

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 08:47

Possibly not.  LH would have then pitted on that lap instead of having to wait yet another (and losing more time) as transpired with the team having to service Nico, and then the SC would have come in to play a couple of laps later with Hamilton having those 2 laps to lap faster too.  Such may also have prevented Kimi leapfrogging him, and on the SC restart it would have been easier to defend against the Lotus of Kimi (slowest on the straights) than the Sauber of Hulkenberg (fastest on the straights).  So Hamilton also suffered from Nico's untimely FW failure.

 

Perhaps, we'll never know, but that doesn't change the fact that NR was ahead before his FW broke.

 

seriously guys.. you must be trolling if you think Nico won this weekend.. not even close..

 

Which Mercedes driver saved his tyres better, and most likely would have finished ahead in the race had his front wing not failed?


Edited by Kingshark, 06 October 2013 - 08:48.


#17 Tonka

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 08:49

+1

 

Yeah how stupid was this, Nico with a broken wing infront of Lewis and not even leting him overtake, for god sake he is his teammate, why sacrifice his race because of his damaged wing, Lewis lost atleast 2-4 more sec because of this and could come out of the pits even ahead of Kimi and would probably never end up behind Hulk.

 

Merc are trowing points away with stuff like this and they will end behind Ferrari because of this crap!

 

If Hamilton had overtaken Rosberg, he could have pitted and gone back out before Rosberg got to the pits.  Mercedes were lucky that there wasn't another car close behind, as I'm sure they would have gone past without a second thought.

 

I'm wondering if Hamilton has bought some staff over from McLaren, as this kind of cocked up race is typical of what used to happen at McLaren.



#18 CHIUNDA

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 08:49

Rosberg took care very well of his tyres and was then screwed by the FW issue.

 

Merc put Hamilton on a terrible strategy.

 

Not sure how to rate it - it's pace vs. tyre management. In any case, Merc needs to improve if they want to challenge for WDC next year.

 

Not a chance. Anybody who can contemplate firing Ross to replace him with Paddy Lowe is incapable for fighting for a championship.



#19 f1fastestlap

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 08:49

Perhaps, we'll never know, but that doesn't change the fact that NR was ahead before his FW broke.

 

 No he wasn't...



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#20 Boxerevo

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 08:49

Brundle said on Sky ATM : "Lewis lost 4 sec this lap behind Rosberg, this brought him behind Hulk in the end. Hamilton was held up when he needed to pic up the pace before his pit stop"

But Lewis got murdered by Hulk anyway in the DRS zone.


Edited by Boxerevo, 06 October 2013 - 08:50.


#21 Raven8

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 08:50

So Lewis holding him before that overtake doesn´t count, talking about biased vision...

Basically every car wich got overtaken is holding the car behind therfore they overtake each other.

A damaged car wich blocks the racing line is a different matter. Some commentators even suspected a black flagg if rosberg continued



#22 Diablobb81

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 08:50

:lol:

You can't be serious...

 

Maybe i'm not. But i was quoting Rosberg. :rolleyes:



#23 P123

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 08:51

Perhaps, we'll never know, but that doesn't change the fact that NR was ahead before his FW broke.

 

 

I think he was still behind, but in the process of passing.  ;)



#24 Raven8

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 08:52

But Lewis got murdered by Hulk anyway in the DRS zone.

Not if he has a few seconds between them. IMO Lewis lost more than 1 pit stop with suboptimal stratgy today. Sometimes I think there are 2 teams at Mercedes working against each other, not together. There they have to learn a lot



#25 P123

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 08:54

But Lewis got murdered by Hulk anyway in the DRS zone.

 

I think the point there is that he may not have had to fight with Hulk on the SC restart had he not had to stay out whilst the team service Nico,  as he was losing more time.  Would need to check the laptimes but he lost a lot of time to Kimi by doing that.  Fighting off a Lotus on the straight would have been an easier task than fighting off the Sauber due to the relative difference in straightline speeds of those two cars.


Edited by P123, 06 October 2013 - 08:55.


#26 Boxerevo

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 08:54

Not if he has a few seconds between them. IMO Lewis lost more than 1 pit stop with suboptimal stratgy today. Sometimes I think there are 2 teams at Mercedes working against each other, not together. There they have to learn a lot

We got a Mclaren 2012 service today.



#27 CHIUNDA

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 08:55

Brundle said on Sky ATM : "Lewis lost 4 sec this lap behind Rosberg, this brought him behind Hulk in the end. Hamilton was held up when he needed to pic up the pace before his pit stop"

 

Very much McLaren like pit decision from Mercedes. What the **** was Mercedes thinking? I am starting to think Paddy Lowe his making more decisions on race day than Ross Brawn. On a light note, there was a picture of Ross sitting in the garage with the mechanics at the start of the race that for a short while made me wonder whether he had been thrown off the pitwall.  :p



#28 1Devil1

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 08:56

seriously guys.. you must be trolling if you think Nico won this weekend.. not even close.. but than again.. who cares.. we lost as a team...

 

Nothing was clear that race, HAM cooked up his tire and Nico overtook him...

+ HAM qualifying pace, race pace

+ Nico tires management

 

without front wing damage Nico would have had a good shot for a podium. Races goes to Hamilton but it was closer as some want to believe. There was no domination of Hamilton because he drove way above the limit of the tires. Raikkonen always get the praise if he is conservative and coming back in the later stage of the race


Edited by 1Devil1, 06 October 2013 - 08:58.


#29 CHIUNDA

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 08:59

Why comment without having the info?

 

Nico didn't damage the front wing, he didn't say he ran over a bump and there was no risk of the wing breaking further since there was another anchor point.

 

It was still stupid and dangerous to hold up a team mate with a wing that could have folded under the nose any time



#30 Raven8

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 08:59

We got a Mclaren 2012 service today.

I really had a deja-vu today when Lewis begged for new tyres , and the pit wall was too stubborn to bring him in. CHina 2007

I hope they didn't hire some McLaren genuis for that!



#31 OccasionalCommenter

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 08:59

Certainly it is almost impossible to say who would've come on top in the end, but I think it's safe to say that Nico did have slight advantage before his incident.



#32 Raven8

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 09:00

Very much McLaren like pit decision from Mercedes. What the **** was Mercedes thinking? I am starting to think Paddy Lowe his making more decisions on race day than Ross Brawn. On a light note, there was a picture of Ross sitting in the garage with the mechanics at the start of the race that for a short while made me wonder whether he had been thrown off the pitwall.  :p

maybe Ross is really leaving at the end of season :/



#33 Diablobb81

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 09:02

It was still stupid and dangerous to hold up a team mate with a wing that could have folded under the nose any time

 

Maybe you can't read. The team told him that there was no risk of the wing breaking further.

 

And it wasn't his fault that the team made another strategic blunder : let Lewis pass and service both in the same round.



#34 Wanderer

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 09:03

 No he wasn't...

 

It broke the moment he passed him, while he was 2 seconds quicker than him. 



#35 CHIUNDA

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 09:05

If Hamilton had overtaken Rosberg, he could have pitted and gone back out before Rosberg got to the pits.  Mercedes were lucky that there wasn't another car close behind, as I'm sure they would have gone past without a second thought.

 

I'm wondering if Hamilton has bought some staff over from McLaren, as this kind of cocked up race is typical of what used to happen at McLaren.

 

:up:



#36 CHIUNDA

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 09:10

Maybe you can't read. The team told him that there was no risk of the wing breaking further.

 

And it wasn't his fault that the team made another strategic blunder : let Lewis pass and service both in the same round.

 

:)

 

It was still stupid and dangerous to hold up a team mate with a wing that could have folded under the nose any time.  Please post source where the team says the wing wouldn't have broken because in my opinion that is a lot of horseshit and smells of Mercedes engineers giving excuses.



#37 Diablobb81

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 09:11

:)

 

It was still stupid and dangerous to hold up a team mate with a wing that could have folded under the nose any time.  Please post source where the team says the wing wouldn't have broken because in my opinion that is a lot of horseshit and smells of Mercedes engineers giving excuses.

 

Rosberg interview. Told you two times already. :rolleyes:



#38 jrg19

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 09:12

    L-N

Q: 9-5

R: 9-5

 

Potential to wrap the season battles up in Japan next week. 



#39 Raven8

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 09:13

Rosberg interview. Told you two times already. :rolleyes:

Of course he would say it, it wasn't dangerous, bu tin the same sentence he said it could have ended in a heavy accident if it  broke down complete. Rosberg is just defending himself and his"strategy" there



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#40 Tonka

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 09:14

Nothing was clear that race, HAM cooked up his tire and Nico overtook him...

+ HAM qualifying pace, race pace

+ Nico tires management

 

without front wing damage Nico would have had a good shot for a podium. Races goes to Hamilton but it was closer as some want to believe. There was no domination of Hamilton because he drove way above the limit of the tires. Raikkonen always get the praise if he is conservative and coming back in the later stage of the race

 

Rosberg would have had to overtaken someone to get onto the podium.  It's pretty obvious Rosberg has real problems overtaking.  Hamilton knackered his tyres because he was racing and trying to overtake at the beginning of the race.  Rosberg was well behind Hamilton, all on his own.  A situation he appears to prefer over racing.



#41 f1fastestlap

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 09:14

It broke the moment he passed him, while he was 2 seconds quicker than him. 

 

Still not ahead when it broke...



#42 Diablobb81

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 09:15

Of course he would say it, it wasn't dangerous, bu tin the same sentence he said it could have ended in a heavy accident if it  broke down complete. Rosberg is just defending himself and his"strategy" there

 

He said it could have ended in a accident if it broke. So he spoke with the team and they assured him that there was no risk of it breaking further. It's like kindergarten in here.

 

Except bashing other drivers do you do anything else?



#43 f1fastestlap

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 09:16

Rosberg would have had to overtaken someone to get onto the podium.  It's pretty obvious Rosberg has real problems overtaking.  Hamilton knackered his tyres because he was racing and trying to overtake at the beginning of the race.  Rosberg was well behind Hamilton, all on his own.  A situation he appears to prefer over racing.

 

That's basically what's happening when he's not at the front...



#44 CHIUNDA

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 09:20

Rosberg interview. Told you two times already. :rolleyes:

 

Yeah, of course Nico's interview!  :clap: I was hoping for something from Ross Brawn, Toto or even one of the engineers. But coming from Nico, yeah  :cool: forgive me for not taking it seriously. 



#45 Mtom

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 09:21

Hamilton qualifying 1, race 1

Rosberg qualifying 0, race 000 for holding up the teammate with a broken wing

 

Merc team 000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 fro dropping 20 sec holding Lewis out, then not telling Nico to let him go, and pit them in the same lap at Hamilton-Rosberg order.

 

They dropped an easy podium.



#46 CHIUNDA

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 09:23

He said it could have ended in a accident if it broke. So he spoke with the team and they assured him that there was no risk of it breaking further. It's like kindergarten in here.

 

Except bashing other drivers do you do anything else?

 

It's a Hamilton vs Rosberg thread .. Hallo? What did you expect?  :drunk:


Edited by CHIUNDA, 06 October 2013 - 09:25.


#47 mlsnoopy

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 09:25

    L-N

Q: 9-5

R: 9-5

 

Potential to wrap the season battles up in Japan next week. 

 

I have it as:

9 wins for Hamilton 3 draws and 2 wins for Rosberg.

So it's more or less over.



#48 Wanderer

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 09:27

Still not ahead when it broke...

 

Right, but even with a broken wing he easily passed Hamilton, he was so much faster at this moment.   ;)



#49 f1fastestlap

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 09:32

Right, but even with a broken wing he easily passed Hamilton, he was so much faster at this moment.   ;)

 

Yeah, the only time in the race he was faster than lewis. That's quite a feat...



#50 baddog

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Posted 06 October 2013 - 09:55

Be realistic guys. there is absolutely no way Lewis was getting a podium. Even with two safety cars to help him out, if he pitted around 25-27 he would have need to stop again making one more stop than the others. He ate one set of tyres as much as 10 laps before his teammate would have needed to stop, and pretty much wore out another trying to pass Hulk ffs. You think he had a chance to take Kimi or Roman who were off up the road and managing their rubber well? Really? The combo of shitty tyres and this circuit just didnt work for him.

 

Nico didnt do anything special either by the way, I still find him way too passive in the pinch.. but to blame him for a horrible bit of luck with the nose collapse and a very long pitstop is stupid. If the failure had not occurred he would likely have finished either (maybe, havent done the maths)3rd or definitely 4th.